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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 10
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Gallery
[B7L] Re: Great big January sale
Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Re: [B7L] Gallery
Re: [B7L] Gallery
Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Re: [B7L] Gallery
[B7L] Soldiers of Love
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
[B7L] Great Big January Sale - List
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Many many people...
Re: [B7L] Gallery
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
[B7L] review of Judith's "All Change"
Re: [B7L] Many many people...
Re: [B7L] Many many people...
[B7L] review of Judith's "All Change"
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Re: [B7L] Many many people...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:31:46 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <iS3bPFACuZf4Ew0v@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <3e.65be46.25ae7e90@aol.com>, Mac4781@aol.com writes
>How many do you think "many, many people" equals, Julia?
As a direct result of the loss of control, rather than being killed in
the rioting that could follow? (Think of how many real and supposed
members of the government and security forces were murdered in Eastern
Europe immediately after the fall of communism. And it's a wonderful
excuse for revenge against personal enemies.) It could be as little as a
few hundred. Seriously. Significantly more than have been killed in any
single terrorist attack they have carried out so far, and it will be
predominantly the civilians that Blake is supposed to be trying to free,
rather than military personnel who he and Cally might see as a
legitimate target. That is what I see Cally as objecting to.
I think it's more than a few hundred, but there is nothing to suggest
that it is the "millions" so often misquoted.
>
>At the beginning of the episode we are shown the type of devastation that
>will occur if Star One is destroyed. With Central Control still operational,
>but breaking down, we are already seeing serious problems develop:
>
No, we aren't. We are shown the type of devastation that can be caused
when someone is deliberately misusing Star One to soften up an empire
for invasion, not what will happen if Star One is shut down completely.
The very first scene demonstrates what happens - the liner captain can
see he's got problems, but ground control insist that the computer is
always right. If it was clear that the remote computer flight control is
screwed (such as it not being there at all), ground control would have
done something about it. It's quite clear that ground control *can*
override, because the captain is agitating for him to do so.
Star One is destroyed in the war, and there is no evidence later in the
series that millions of people died - rather, that the Federation lost
control, and that largely the result of losing most of its battle fleet.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:09:37 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Cc: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Gallery
Message-ID: <3njOCAAR6cf4Ewlb@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Marcel-1.46-0113083011-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
>Come to think of it, who do we get to cut the red ribbon across the entrance?
Gareth. Take a piece of red ribbon to Edinburgh, and I'll take my
camera. :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:17:35 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Great big January sale
Message-ID: <200001131417_MC2-94AB-493E@compuserve.com>
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Una's selling:
>other stuff I've forgotten
Could you contrive to forget you've got Star Cops?
And I really will give Moonbase Three back whenever I see you again...
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:42:01 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <001401bf5dfe$9d253180$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Ellynne wrote
> In the episode where they're trying to find the murderer to keep that one
> planet from turning into a mushroom 1) is there anyone who believes the
> Federation wasn't responsible for the fungi?
Yes, me. Why blame the Federation for every last disaster? (Remember the
bit in Hope And Glory when the family come home to find their house has
burned down. ''This wasn't an air-raid, this was a normal fire. They
happen in wartime too, you know...'')
2) Is there anyone who
> thinks it wasn't really Avon who set the explosives and that Blake
> quickly took credit for some little mind game reason of his own, like
> convincing the passengers _he_ was in charge, not Avon. Really.
I think it would have been grotesquely out of character for *1st Season*
Avon to have set the charges (3rd/4th Season, maybe not). At this stage
he's still trying to convince himself he's a white collar fugitive, not a
terrorist revolutionary. In fact, at this point in the series we'd yet to
see him shoot anyone - he didn't do that until Deliverance, and even then it
was in self defence (as was his shooting of the visa man on Earth, the only
pre-series killing we know of in which he was involved).
However, setting the charges to blow up the mysterious rendezvous party (we
never did find out who they were) would also, IMO, be somewhat out of
character for Blake, *unless* he was party to some additional information
that he didn't care to share with everyone else (including us viewers). Why
go to the trouble of wiping out a bunch of crooks when they weren't even
going to collect the prize? Maybe it was the Federation (or their agents)
who had come to collect the neutrotope. In which case I begin to wonder if
Liberator stumbling across the Ortega wasn't the chance encounter it seemed
to be at the time.
3) Is
> there anyone who doesn't think either the alphabet or handwriting would
> have had to change considerably for _Avon_ to take that long figuring out
> the one clue? Or has he been going through a great deal of effort to hide
> his mild dyslexia and this one slipped past him?
The obvious is always obvious in retrospect, never necessarily so before you
realise how obvious it is.
Neil
"I suppose I respond so antipathetically to Lewis and Tolkien because I find
this sort of consolatory Christianity as distasteful as any other
fundamentally misanthropic doctrine." - Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:46:17 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <001201bf5dfe$9aca78a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Ellynne wrote
> Orbit--I've heard the theory Avon wasn't really trying to find Vila, but
> I don't buy it.
Me neither. Saddo Avon-groupie apologists will believe any old tripe if it
gets Old Studsy off the hook.
> Also on Orbit--Avon's other actions seem suspicious. Vila was obviously
> the wrong choice to bring down. Tarrant was better in a fight, as were
> Dayna and Soolin.
But Robert Holmes liked writing for A and V (and be fair, he did make a good
double act out of them). Maybe Avon wanted someone he could be sure of
calling the shots with. Tarrant etc might argue against him in such
uncertain circumstances. Vila might argue too, but ineffectually.
> Speaking of Cally and hostile telepaths, I think The Web is really the
> only time when she was truly taken over.
It's arguably the only time she was taken over without regaining control off
her own bat. (Getting captured and then escaping is still getting captured,
after all.) Even in the Web, wasn't she fighting back (thinking of her
telepathic thank-you to Jenna, or maybe she just liked getting a slap on the
chops).
Neil
"I suppose I respond so antipathetically to Lewis and Tolkien because I find
this sort of consolatory Christianity as distasteful as any other
fundamentally misanthropic doctrine." - Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:10:47 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <14C+VUAX9jf4Ew1Z@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <001201bf5dfe$9aca78a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>, Neil Faulkner
<N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>Ellynne wrote
>> Orbit--I've heard the theory Avon wasn't really trying to find Vila, but
>> I don't buy it.
>
>Me neither. Saddo Avon-groupie apologists will believe any old tripe if it
>gets Old Studsy off the hook.
Hey! *This* saddo Avon groupie thinks he would so have done it, once
he'd been given the idea. If he knew where Vila was, then why the hell
didn't he haul him out to help dump the neutron matter?
Anyway, I thought the whole point of that episode was the lovely, lovely
angst of watching Avon deciding to kill his best mate. Sort of spoils it
if he wasn't really trying.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:12:00 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <1IP+JbAg+jf4EwWT@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <001401bf5dfe$9d253180$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>, Neil Faulkner
<N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>However, setting the charges to blow up the mysterious rendezvous party (we
>never did find out who they were) would also, IMO, be somewhat out of
>character for Blake, *unless* he was party to some additional information
>that he didn't care to share with everyone else (including us viewers). Why
>go to the trouble of wiping out a bunch of crooks when they weren't even
>going to collect the prize? Maybe it was the Federation (or their agents)
>who had come to collect the neutrotope. In which case I begin to wonder if
>Liberator stumbling across the Ortega wasn't the chance encounter it seemed
>to be at the time.
Write the story, Neil...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:40:55 EST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Gallery
Message-ID: <20000113214055.70844.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
> >Come to think of it, who do we get to cut the red ribbon across the
>entrance?
>Gareth. Take a piece of red ribbon to Edinburgh, and I'll take my
>camera. :-)
And if Gareth can't, can I suggest David Walsh? Couldn't you see Servalan
opening a gallery?
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:45:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Gallery
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0113214505-0e8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 13 Jan, Julia Jones wrote:
> Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
> >Come to think of it, who do we get to cut the red ribbon across the entrance?
>
> Gareth. Take a piece of red ribbon to Edinburgh, and I'll take my
> camera. :-)
Irresistible! Right, that means we have to have the revamp completed by then.
We have our first occupant in the gents loo and several in the ladies. More
photos please! I'm having fun looking at the grafitti people have chosen. (but
you can't see them until the official opening ceremony)
Remember, one scanned photo (low resolution), one piece of grafitti and one
biography (as short, long, serious, silly as you like). You have a choice of
ladies, gents, disabled, nappy-changing. (If you don't express a preference,
I'll guess as best as I can.)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0113210831-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 13 Jan, Neil Faulkner wrote:
>
> However, setting the charges to blow up the mysterious rendezvous party (we
> never did find out who they were) would also, IMO, be somewhat out of
> character for Blake, *unless* he was party to some additional information
> that he didn't care to share with everyone else (including us viewers). Why
> go to the trouble of wiping out a bunch of crooks when they weren't even
> going to collect the prize? Maybe it was the Federation (or their agents)
> who had come to collect the neutrotope. In which case I begin to wonder if
> Liberator stumbling across the Ortega wasn't the chance encounter it seemed
> to be at the time.
One thing I've wondered is whether they were worried about being attacked by the
ship if it tried to retake the neutrotope.
This is an early episode and they hadn't yet tried Liberator in combat. They
would also be low on energy after the run to Destiny and might not have been
able to outrun a hostile ship.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:41:10 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Gallery
Message-ID: <XumWQhAGSlf4Ewxi@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20000113214055.70844.qmail@hotmail.com>, Joanne MacQueen
<j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes
>
>
>
>>From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
>> >Come to think of it, who do we get to cut the red ribbon across the
>>entrance?
>>Gareth. Take a piece of red ribbon to Edinburgh, and I'll take my
>>camera. :-)
>
>And if Gareth can't, can I suggest David Walsh? Couldn't you see Servalan
>opening a gallery?
<snicker>
After the "Which loo do I use" incident at Redemption, I'm sure the
gallery loos need a separate opening ceremony of their own.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:56:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Soldiers of Love
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0113225655-566Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Given that it's hard to sell Soldiers of Love to people who haven't heard it
(it's much easier when they're listening to it, as they soon know if they like
it or not - I just wait for the giggles), I've decided to give people the option
to try it for minimum risk.
Order any of the CDs from me (looking at the reviews on
ttp://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 will probably tell you which one you'd like to try
- number 4 is my personal favourite) and if you don't like it, mail it back
undamaged to me and I'll refund your money minus 1 pound or $2. (If
Australians want to take me up on this, contact me first as we'll need to sort
out in advance what method/currency I'd refund you in.)
So if you have a smutty sense of humour, want a future that doesn't take itself
too seriously, aren't offended too much by the occasional bit of bad language,
want villains to be evil in true melodrama fashion, but also like a plot with
depth, then give it a go.
Characters are open about their sexuality and include gay and lesbian (and one
who I think will turn out to be bi). I think one of the writer's intentions was
to have a future where sex/sexuality isn't seen as something to be afraid of.
Heck, I know it. He also wanted to have strong female characters, and certainly
succeeded with Madame Deephole (Jackie Pearce) and Maureen. My favourite
character to date is Hywel (Gareth Thomas) who is as gay as they come and
hilariously camp, but is a strong character who can head confidently into a
dangerous situation.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:00:06 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <20000113.190007.14598.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
OK, I may have sent this to the lyst already, but I think it didn't get
through. However, my e-mail's been just a little weird lately, so who
knows.
>Then there was Avon's bringing a gun that wouldn't do
>> him any good (unless he needed to kill Vila) when a teleport
>bracelet
>> would have been better.
>
>Well, there was the short Dayna-Tarrant exchange later on (when Dayna
>wanted to
>teleport with some bracelets) which says they can't use the teleport
>between two
>fast moving objects.
>
I thought they couldn't teleport to a fast moving object because they
couldn't get a proper fix without the bracelet. OTOH, I didn't think
teleporting _out_ would be a problem (just like they could teleport out
without getting cooridnates but couldn't teleport back in).
>LOL. You mean Egrorian, don't you?
Right, keep me away from the proper nouns (first mixing up Avon and
Blake, now this . . .)
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 02:22:48 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: "Freedom City" <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>,
<lucydennis@cix.compulink.co.uk>, <Debra@whisson1.freeserve.co.uk>,
<sue.cowley@bbc.co.uk>, <gadam@shore.net>
Subject: [B7L] Great Big January Sale - List
Message-ID: <0e2a01bf5e36$458dd070$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
You can now see the full list of what's available at:
http://www.q-research.connectfree.co.uk/personal/jansale.htm
A rough summary:
Dr Who:
- New Adventures
- Missing Adventures
- BBC novels
- short story collections
- coffee table books
- annuals
- graphic novels
- reference books
- script books
- audio books
There will be a full list of the Target novelizations available soon: in
general, assume that we have at least two copies of most stories, i.e. one
of the old-style ones, and a 'blue cover' new one.
***
General TV - books and annuals related to:
- Babylon 5
- Blake's 7
- The Prisoner
- The Professionals
- Red Dwarf
- Sapphire and Steel
- The Tomorrow People
- The X-Files
- Catweazle
- Star Trek
- Sherlock Holmes TV series
- Gerry Anderson
E-mail personally with questions, rather than to the list, please.
Thanks!
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:07:46 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <20000114030746.56996.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Julia wrote:
<If it was clear that the remote computer flight control is
screwed (such as it not being there at all), ground control
would have done something about it. It's quite clear that
ground control *can* override, because the captain is
agitating for him to do so.
You have a point - I've assumed that Star One instructions
cannot be overriden, because of the weather problems - surely
if they could, someone would have done so by now (it was
raining on Vilka for sixty days) Durkim's only answer was
"fix Star One", and Servalan's is "find another answer
because if it's Star One we can do nothing about it." So
there would be *some* controls that can be overborne by local computers (and
flight coordination would be sensible, though
there's not much point if ground control won't *do* it), and
others - presumably those that are central to the
Federation's control of worlds - that can't.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:09:44 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <20000114030944.91696.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
After Ellynne wrote
<Orbit--I've heard the theory Avon wasn't really trying to
find Vila, but I don't buy it.>
Neil answered:
<Me neither. Saddo Avon-groupie apologists will believe any
old tripe if it gets Old Studsy off the hook.>
Well, of *course*...if we wanted to be fair and reasonable and objective,
we'd be fans of Gan. Or football commentators.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:16:55 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Many many people...
Message-ID: <00aa01bf5e60$0d31c4a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Una wroteth:
> <Piously> Indeed, if only *one* person had died, it would still have been
a
> moral outrage.
But make it a million and it would have been no more than a statistic.
Surely Cally's vague reference to ''many many people'' suggests that she
herself can't put a figure on the bodycount, so really she's just guessing.
Julia:
>Oh, I think he was ruthless - more so than Avon, in some ways. I just
>get fed up with people misquoting Cally to support their view of Blake.
Me too, on both counts.
(a) For Blake to be a halfway decent revolutionary, he would have had to be
ruthless. Any system worth overthrowing isn't going to be toppled by high
ideals alone, and any attempt by Blake to pull his punches and restrict the
effects of his activities to his declared opponents would have turned his
actions into worthy but ultimately ineffectual protest. There's quite a bit
of Blake-bashing fanfic (Judith Seaman springs immediately to mind) that
depicts exactly that kind of Blake, so bound by his moral agonising that he
can't achieve anything. I don't buy it - Blake was smart. And ruthless.
And manipulative. But that's alright because it was all in a good cause.
(b) Some people put a lot of weight on Cally's objections as voiced early on
in 'Star One', but then overlook her later gung-ho enthusiasm for pressing
on with the mission. She really does look super-keen when they find that one
door, as requested (even if it isn't marked 'Entrance'). Whilst I think
it's reasonable to posit that Cally has appointed herself as Blake's
conscience on the flight deck, she has done so primarily to voice her own
ambivalence towards the venture, and ultimately she comes down on Blake's
side.
Come to think of it, so does Avon.
Neil
"I suppose I respond so antipathetically to Lewis and Tolkien because I find
this sort of consolatory Christianity as distasteful as any other
fundamentally misanthropic doctrine." - Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:18:29 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Gallery
Message-ID: <00ab01bf5e60$0f30f000$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Pat wrote:
> Bet you've already done the bedroom (where all will click first):
I want to start in the greenhouse.
Neil
"I suppose I respond so antipathetically to Lewis and Tolkien because I find
this sort of consolatory Christianity as distasteful as any other
fundamentally misanthropic doctrine." - Michael Moorcock
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:39:39 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <H2pSmCA7Ktf4EwyN@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20000114030746.56996.qmail@hotmail.com>, Sally Manton
<smanton@hotmail.com> writes
>So
>there would be *some* controls that can be overborne by local computers (and
>flight coordination would be sensible, though
>there's not much point if ground control won't *do* it), and
>others - presumably those that are central to the
>Federation's control of worlds - that can't.
I think there'll be two factors - one being that the system in question
can be used for political control, and the other being whether it's
something where a central control system makes life easier, but isn't
necessary. There will be a lot of stuff, like shipping control, where
you can get by quite easily without, and being able to screw it up from
the outside doesn't offer any real blackmail opportunity.
It's obvious that not everything was under the control of Star One, or
the Andromedans would have been able to cripple far more without having
to worry about making it look like an accident to begin with - including
the military fleet which wiped them out.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:18:24 +0100
From: Angria@t-online.de (Tanja Kinkel)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] review of Judith's "All Change"
Message-ID: <1291w8-0t66ZkC@fwd07.sul.t-online.de>
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ALL CHANGE; or, HOW THEY OUGHT TO HAVE DONE IT
A review
Most people vented their disappointment in the two Blake's 7 radio plays written
by Barry Letts in scathing remarks, or protesting letters. Judith Proctor did
something more constructive and at the same time countered the criticised
writer’s last defence - „You do better!"
Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, she did. The audioplay ALL CHANGE has the same
premise THE SEVENFOLD CROWN and THE SYNDETON EXPERIMENT had: it’s set in the
fourth season, and the task of the Scorpio Crew is to find, destroy or win a
device before the Federation can. There is a third party involved, that
fourth-season archetype, the mysterious scientist. But the result is startlingly
different.
For starters, this Blake’s 7 drama actually has Blake in it, masquerading as
inventor Dr. Probert. The device in question is equally known to the audience -
it’s the teleport system Blake has been developing as Probert, trying to
recreate the one from the Liberator. Secondly, Soolin and Dayna are their old
selves from the TV series, instead of acting as damsels in distress (one of
Letts’ more annoying blunders). As a matter of fact, the characterisation of
everyone is spot-on, not a big surprise if one is familiar with Judith’s
fanfics. What did surprise me - knowing her to be primarily a Blake and Avon
fan - was that the character who gets deepened the most in comparison with canon
is Tarrant. He has a touching scene with Dayna in which we learn a lot about his
background and the reason why he originally deserted.
Also getting some depth is Deva, previously known to us only through the last
episode, BLAKE, and not exactly popular among fans, probably due to his status
as the OTHER computer expert in Blake’s life. His joining up with Blake and the
tentative friendship developing between them show both the similarities and the
differences between Fearless Leader in the first two and in the last season.
Blake here is more cynical, more ruthless and less given to trust, but just as
passionate about his Cause, and still willing to risk everything for his
friends.
In this way, and many more, ALL CHANGE also serves as a prequel to the final
episode, with which it shares the sense of Blake and Avon circling around each
other. Judith has to use some frustrating accidents to prevent them from
actually meeting or the rest of the Scorpio Crew noticing Probert is Blake in
order to keep faith with the canon, but still manages to let them save each
other and gets in a classic remark:
Blake: Let me introduce you to Orac.
Deva: What is it?
Blake: It’s an extremely useful pain in the neck. Speaking of which, where’s
Avon?
By the time one finishes this audioplay, the only thing one regrets is that this
isn’t what the BBC gave us. Read and enjoy!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:14:24 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Many many people...
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Neil respondeth:
> Una wroteth:
> > <Piously> Indeed, if only *one* person had died, it would still have
been a
> > moral outrage.
>
> But make it a million and it would have been no more than a statistic.
Zigackly!
Neil also wrote:
> "I suppose I respond so antipathetically to Lewis and Tolkien because I
find
> this sort of consolatory Christianity as distasteful as any other
> fundamentally misanthropic doctrine." - Michael Moorcock
Phooey. At least with the Tolkien bit. Anyone who thinks Catholicism is
'consolatory Christianity' hasn't hung out with enough Catholics. You only
had that there to make me cross, didn't you, Neil?
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 02:48:15 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Many many people...
Message-ID: <20000114104815.78560.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Neil wrote:
<Blake was smart. And ruthless. And manipulative.>
<grin> You can add arrogant, and stubborn to the point of pig-headedness.
Virtues that would also have to be in the
job description. Nice people do not good revolutionaries make.
Also:
<Some people put a lot of weight on Cally's objections as
voiced early on in 'Star One', but then overlook her later
gung-ho enthusiasm for pressing on with the mission.>
One has to say that, *apart* from that odd two minutes, the
interplay between them in Star One is really rather nice -
Blake teasing her about the door, her enthusiasm (as Neil
points out) when they get down to the business of blowing
things up, her hovering (along with Avon) over him when
he's injured, his appeal to her about the charges.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 02:50:16 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] review of Judith's "All Change"
Message-ID: <20000114105016.85309.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Tanja quoting Judith:
<Blake: Let me introduce you to Orac.
Deva: What is it?
Blake: It's an extremely useful pain in the neck. Speaking of
which, where's Avon?>
<choke> Oh Judith, that line is so - so...*him*. I love it.
The whole thing sounds wonderful; will have to add this to the
list of 'when I have pennies...'
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:59:11 -0000
From: "Kin Ming Looi" <ming@looi.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
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From: Ellynne G. <rilliara@juno.com>
> Except that this is also the trouble caused by a _malfunctioning_ Star
> One, not just an absent one. The ship's were getting conflicting reports
> (one from Star One, one from their own instruments) about what was
> happening. This may have been happening with weather control, etc. as
> well (Star One says it should be snowing, so it's going to be snowing).
Wasn't it not just damage caused by a malfunctioning Star One but
maliciously inflicted damage caused by Andromedan manipulation of Star One?
Ming.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:55:43 -0000
From: "Kin Ming Looi" <ming@looi.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
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From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
> "Many, many people" != huge numbers of people.
> Nor does it equal millions. Or billions. Or any of the other attempts to
> claim that Blake intended to kill the majority of the people he was
> trying to free.
In addition, anyone in Blake's position has an enormous dillemma. Destroy
Star One and "many, many people" will die in the short term. Do not destroy
Star One and, similarly, in the long term, an awful lot of people will
suffer and die under Federation rule. In addition, Blake and everybody with
him will know they could have done something about it but did not.
Tough enough question to contemplate as fiction. I can't begin to imagine
how hard a problem like that must be to resolve for real.
Ming.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 02:37:02 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <387EFC4E.28DA1E6B@ptinet.net>
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Julia Jones wrote, re Orbit:
> Hey! *This* saddo Avon groupie thinks he would so have done it, once
> he'd been given the idea. If he knew where Vila was, then why the hell
> didn't he haul him out to help dump the neutron matter?
>
> Anyway, I thought the whole point of that episode was the lovely, lovely
> angst of watching Avon deciding to kill his best mate. Sort of spoils it
> if he wasn't really trying.
I'd like to second this, if I may. And the thing that makes it twice as
nice is that Avon's come to the point where he didn't even think of
it himself; I suspect it was in there under the surface and he was
repressing it like crazy-- until Orac took that option away.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 03:56:35 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <387F0EF2.B01B0BF3@ptinet.net>
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> Seems fairly obvious to me - the examples Durkim shows don't
> look like planets reverting to their normal, uncontrolled
> weather patterns, but worlds being devastated by unnatural
> conditions going haywire.
True. But it's not unreasonable to think that just letting loose of
the climate control will cause violent overcorrections on some
worlds. Think the Liberator in 'Breakdown.'
> Star One is still sending out
> commands, they're just scrambled, and it's killing 'many,
> many people' by its continued existence.
If that is true (and the only deaths we actually know of are on
the Nova Queen) it is because of the Andromedan interference,
not the Federation.
> And these examples
> indicate that, when Star One goes feral, individual worlds
> *cannot* override the lethal instructions (which makes sense,
> since it's an instrument of oppression).
Eh??? There is not one example of Star One being used as an
instrument of oppression; in fact, it's quite clear it can't be done.
There is no way for the powers that be in the Federation to give
any orders to Star One at all. They don't know where it is, they
can't fix it-- they have no control.
While it's true that destroying Star One will create havoc and
weaken Federation control because of that havoc, it doesn't
naturally follow that Star One is an instrument of oppression.
That's just an unsupportable attempt to justify its destruction.
I seriously doubt that if your government found a way to give
you a perfect climate and eliminate traffic accidents, you'd
find it oppressive.
However corrupt, oppressive, and evil the Federation may be,
it is naive and overly simplistic to think that *every* Federation
action, *every* Federation program must be equally corrupt,
oppressive, and evil. Were that the case, the Federation would
collapse overnight.
> - Star One as a working Federation weapon kills;
Proof? You haven't given any.
> destroying Star
> One kills; Star One as an out-of-control but unstoppable control centre is
> killing...and there is no way, for Our Heroes or for
> us, to know which body count is highest.
But the point (to me, anyway) isn't the body count. It's
whether Blake has the authority to make the decision to
deliberately sacrifice non-combatants to win his victory.
In my book, he doesn't.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 04:38:04 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Too quiet
Message-ID: <387F18AB.3E12DFB2@ptinet.net>
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Tanja Kinkel wrote:
> Ellynne G. wrote:
> > Also on Orbit--Avon's other actions seem suspicious. Vila was obviously
> > the wrong choice to bring down. Tarrant was better in a fight, as were
> > Dayna and Soolin.
>
> I blame this on the scriptwriter. Just think of Hostage. Same thing. Vila is
> obviously the wrong choice for backup, yet Avon orders him down instead of Cally
> or Jenna. Why? Because Vila can be captured by Ushton and terrified by Travis
> later, whereas the women a) wouldn't have been captured and b) wouldn't have
> given Travis what he wanted. The script demanded for Vila to be there, so Avon
> had to choose him against all logic.
I have to disagree here. Avon's pretty consistent about taking Vila
with him when Vila's around to take. Deliverance (when they split
up), Orac, Killer, Pressure Point, Hostage, Assassin, Orbit. Now,
it's possible I've missed some, but in looking over my notes, the only
time that I can find when 1) Avon was in charge (as opposed
to Blake) 2) he took one person with him 3) Vila was available,
and yet it wasn't Vila he took, was in Gold where he took Soolin;
but Vila had made it clear in that case that he didn't want to be
involved. Oops, no, he took Tarrant to Cancer's ship in Assassin;
makes sense, Vila would be an obvious liability in that situation.
It does seem that he leans heavily toward taking Vila, though. And
I think the reason is no more complicated than the fact that he's
comfortable with Vila, for several reasons. Vila is easily controlled,
they have some mutual professional respect, Vila is *not* trigger-
happy or rash, to name a few.
In Orbit specifically, I think Avon wanted someone who *wouldn't*
start a fight; someone who'd enhance his appearance of power and
authority by not giving the impression of second-guessing and
evaluating everything he said. His 'assistant', to counter Egrorian's.
Avon knew that they were in an extremely dangerous situation, but
the battle would be played with psychology instead of weapons. For
that reason, he would need someone whose reactions he could
predict, and control if necessary. None of the other members of
Scorpio's crew fit the bill in the way Vila did.
(Okay, okay, that and the fact it's a Robert Holmes script.)
Grins,
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 03:24:37 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <387F0774.3163D31C@ptinet.net>
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Ellynne wrote
> > In the episode where they're trying to find the murderer to keep that one
> > planet from turning into a mushroom 1) is there anyone who believes the
> > Federation wasn't responsible for the fungi?
>
> Yes, me. Why blame the Federation for every last disaster?
Ditto. I fail to see how the Federation could cause Destiny's star
to be lacking in certain wavelengths of light. (OTOH, a good
writer might make me believe they took advantage of that lack
to engineer a lovely fungus-- but no, I don't "really" believe it.)
> 2) Is there anyone who
> > thinks it wasn't really Avon who set the explosives and that Blake
> > quickly took credit for some little mind game reason of his own, like
> > convincing the passengers _he_ was in charge, not Avon. Really.
>
> I think it would have been grotesquely out of character for *1st Season*
> Avon to have set the charges (3rd/4th Season, maybe not).
Ditto again-- although I'd have said only 4th Season, *maybe* not.
There is simply nothing in Destiny that would motivate Avon to
set those explosives. The people in that ship are no threat to Avon
and not his enemies. Quite apart from that, Blake brought the
explosives with him, and we see him go off to set them. It would
require some fairly convoluted plotting to 'adjust' things so that it
would make sense for Avon to have set them.
> 3) Is
> > there anyone who doesn't think either the alphabet or handwriting would
> > have had to change considerably for _Avon_ to take that long figuring out
> > the one clue? Or has he been going through a great deal of effort to hide
> > his mild dyslexia and this one slipped past him?
>
> The obvious is always obvious in retrospect, never necessarily so before you
> realise how obvious it is.
I guess we can take it from that that you didn't figure it out before
Avon did? It *was* obvious; it was the weakest part of the plot.
It requires a mighty effort to suspend disbelief over that one.
Avon had his blinders on.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 02:27:53 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Many many people...
Message-ID: <387EFA29.87E9FA9F@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Julia:
> >Oh, I think he was ruthless - more so than Avon, in some ways. I just
> >get fed up with people misquoting Cally to support their view of Blake.
>
> Me too, on both counts.
Whereas I get fed up with people insisting that disagreeing with
Blake's (or anyone's) actions is bashing him. If you cannot think
that a person is acting wrongly without hating him, then we might
as well all agree to hate each other, because no two people are
ever going to agree 100% about every point of right and wrong.
Some of the people I care for the most are some of the people
that I disagree with the most. My respect for them is still high.
As for Blake, I admire among other things his commitment,
persistence, intelligence, ability to lead-- I just happen to think
he's misapplied them at Star One.
When he realizes that Star One must be preserved to help fight
the Andromedans, now there's a moment of greatness most
revolutionaries wouldn't have risen to-- no kicking the corpses
for Blake.
> (a) For Blake to be a halfway decent revolutionary, he would have had to be
> ruthless. Any system worth overthrowing isn't going to be toppled by high
> ideals alone,
I dunno... when I was a kid, I was told by a fellow pretty high up
in the US military that the Soviet Union would collapse from inside--
when enough of its people were ready for it to. He said that we get
the governments we deserve--because we accept them. I didn't
believe him at the time; but it appears now that he knew what he
was saying.
> Blake was smart. And ruthless.
> And manipulative. But that's alright because it was all in a good cause.
Rubbish. 'The end justifies the means' is just a cop-out for those
who don't have the patience or the backbone or the intelligence to
persevere against the odds, without caving in to the temptation
to take the easier, less ethical path. Blake rose above that temptation
a lot of the time. He also gave in to it occasionally -- Star One,
Shadow, Bounty.
> (b) Some people put a lot of weight on Cally's objections as voiced early on
> in 'Star One', but then overlook her later gung-ho enthusiasm for pressing
> on with the mission. She really does look super-keen when they find that one
> door, as requested (even if it isn't marked 'Entrance'). Whilst I think
> it's reasonable to posit that Cally has appointed herself as Blake's
> conscience on the flight deck, she has done so primarily to voice her own
> ambivalence towards the venture, and ultimately she comes down on Blake's
> side.
Yep.
> Come to think of it, so does Avon.
That's your spin. What he *says* is that he wants it over with.
I think he means just that.
Grins,
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #10
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