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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 100
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Re: Action Figures
[B7L] Avon looking for Blake
[B7L] Expense account
[B7L] Action figures
[B7L] Action Figures
Re: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
[B7L] Behind-the-scenes
[B7L] UnAmerican activities
Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] Expense account
Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes
Re: [B7L] Re:Avon's search?
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Vila's taste in women
Re: [B7L] Action figures
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:00:01 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.helsinki.fi>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0004052357030.2958-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Una wrote:
<There's a very strong strand in Christian thought (inherited, I think,
from
Augustine, but any experts out there please correct me), which explains
away
and makes acceptable injustice in this world on the grounds that rewards
(and punishments) will be dealt out in the next.>
Actually, that "eventually" in my post was suppose to indicate this (of
course it didn't). Things are made good in the afterlife even if you have
to suffer in this one, and the sinner will eventually get his
comeuppance. The Judeo-Christian thinking sees time as linear, with
Creation as the beginning and the Last Judgement looming at the end of the
story. The central convention is that the story should have a clear
conclusion and by that conclusion things should be made right.
Neil wrote:
<I don't disagree with Kai's perspective on the influence of
Judaeo-Christian
thinking - it's new to me, but it makes an awful lot of sense. And in a
Judaeo-Christian culture it might work. But not, or at least not half so
well, in a predominantly secular culture that has (largely) done away with
God but found nothing of substance to replace Him.>
Note that my main focus in this issue was narratological (as was with the
article that inspired it), not primarily cultural and certainly not
theological (a subject I know bugger all). However, I do feel that we
learn and organise our perceptions and expectations of the world through
stories and I don't mean just fan fiction (ultimately our lives are
stories that we construct to make sense of experiences and build our
subjectivity). Our laws, our language and our sense of sacred are imbedded
with this tradition (even if we don't always recognise the origin of the
ideas) and it remains even now when we've largely removed the
preternatural baggage from the equation. But having removed God, we've
also removed the undividable, transcendental signifier, the fulcrum on
which this construct rested. We cling to its ideals and conventions but
lacking the fixed, redeeming constant, it falls apart bit by bit, while no
successful replacement has been found to fix things (Reason got a bad rap
during the 20th Century, Love is a perennial contender but so far has
failed to deliver, while Greed is ever popular but lacks a sustainable
agenda). So yes, instead of one big story we're increasingly heading
towards division, chasing fragments of image because the whole picture is
too complex to process.
<However, this is all extremely complex, with many different factors at
work
(at least some of which I'm almost certainly quite unaware of - I've not
even mentioned the impact of growing global awareness through the
development of mass media), and
narrowing everything down to even a handful of causes, let alone just one,
is probably a big mistake.>
Quite right. But as things *are* complex, we'll have to narrow our focus
to one thing at a time. It's an interesting idea to develop (if I only had
time to do so), but I'm not suggesting it's more than that.
<Bloody interesting, though.>
Hmm, has this been my very long way of saying, "I agree"?
Una again:
<So, to me, B7 seems to be a rather typically pessimistic secularized
narrative [1]. The weak get shot, the strong live to kill another day.
No-one goes to heaven, no-one goes to hell. What I think is quite
interesting, however, is that it doesn't go the whole hog and imply that
there is *absolutely* no escape, such as in '1984' or, from fanfic, 'The
Logic of Empire'. Even though 'our heroes' have been shot, even tho' Blake
lies dead and his base is in ruins, there's still the chance that someone
somewhere is looking round at his/her surroundings and thinking, 'This is
wrong, and I have to do something about it...'>
Now getting back to expectations of happy endings for a moment, I think
that we often see these kinds of endings where the narrative ends at the
victory of the baddies (with no supernatural balancing of the scales
implied), but still there is the triumph of the good through their
martyrdom. As westerns have often been mentioned as an influence on
Blake's 7 (see, I finally got there) and considering the final episode's
bounty hunter theme, I came to think about the classic Italian western "Il
grande silenzio" (The Great Silence). This very unorthodox western ends
with the hero and his black girlfriend getting shot by a group of evil
bounty hunters who then proceed to slaughter their helpless hostages and
finally ride off to collect the bounty from their killing. Now this is
certainly a downbeat ending, but just before the end titles we get a text
explaining how this massacre caused such uproar that the whole bounty
hunter system was finally abolished. So the idea is that things got better
outside the story, and people didn't die in vain. Victory in defeat.
Blake's 7 of course doesn't do it like this. There is no final caption
telling us how the people, inspired by the crew's sacrifice, rose against
the Federation and wearing red leather trousers one size too small and
Blake T-shirts of rather bad quality, took back the power from their
oppressors (and later declared St.Vila's Day, a national holiday with
mandatory intoxication),
one reason being simply that there could have been a fifth season. But as
Una pointed out, the ending is typically ambivalent, the ball ending in
the audience side of the court. We make our own meanings.
So no heaven and no hell, but maybe, just maybe, they made a difference in
this life. Believe what you like.
Kai
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 17:02:48 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Message-ID: <009c01bf9f42$6ed56540$f9694e0c@dshilling>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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[Wolfram & Hart letterhead]
Dear Pat:
In general, nice job on the Film Noir Avon set. Snap-brim fedora, trench
coat, powder-blue suit (as per The Big Sleep), automatic and extra clips,
supplemental smart ass remark cassette, gardenias for Film Noir Anna, all
excellent. Suggest adding bottle of aspirin (whacks on head also common in
this genre). Also, remove the blackjack: Avon demonstrably will not Play the
Sap despite urging of Dame and Best Pal.
Also thumbs-up on Servalan's Malibu Dream Dungeon. How are you getting along
on Jenna's truck for things to fall off of?
As for the Avon Classics Educational Line:
1. Yorkshire Moor package for the Wuthering Heights set is a tad
featureless. But when has that stopped us? Box should read "Series 3-4: How
can I die without my soul? How can I live without my life?" Standards &
Practices says we can't include a ready-to-hang puppy. Pursue possible
tie-in with Taco Bell chihuahua. Isabella Linton costume for Cally doll is
excellent, and I'm sure the Vila doll will enjoy Edgar Linton get-up and
being rich for a change.
2. I'm sure you'll get criticism about the casting in the Pride & Prejudice
set (based on who's cleverer, who has more horribly embarrassing family,
who's more likely to own big house, etc.) but I think Avonian ability to
turn confession of love into unforgiveable insult is conclusive. I know
where you could unload a fair few dozen copies of Avon doll in Darcy
costume. Not sure about the suitability of Empire line for Blake doll.
Discussions about who looks better in damp muslin will have to be taken
off-line, but personally don't think it works with chest hair.
3. Why not Servalan/Travis Jane Eyre set? Eye & hand already missing, no
need to retool.
Dana
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 13:35:46 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake
Message-ID: <38EBA3A1.31FF@jps.net>
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Sally said:
> At the start of Blake Avon says that he's known where Blake was for some
> time, since before the warlord conference, but he's being distinctly
> disengenuous throughout this scene (something he's rather good at). The
> amount of time that (IMO) he and Orac have put into this is extremely hard
> to equate with Avon's statement that he *would* have left Blake there had
> the conference succeeded, not least of all because you simply *don't* go to
> all that work for no reason, (and the search, by my reasoning, probably
> lasted through several episodes, starting well before the conference idea
> came into being).
How about this-- he did know Blake's probable whereabouts before
Warlord, but wasn't sure about getting Blake back *when* they needed
help. If he did that, and Blake figured out a solution to the Pylene-50
expansion problem, Avon would be second place to Blake the rest of their
days. Avon wanted to bring Blake back in *after* the problem was in
hand. And probably was hoping to run off and do it on his own while the
others were involved in other work. Only when the alternatives blew up
in his face was he willing to risk having the others see him go running
to Blake.
> But after Terminal, he's unwilling to
> risk another might-be, and the information Orac has on this man worries him
> more than he later lets on (more disengenuousness) - makes him more
> uncertain that he has the right man (or if he has, what the hell has
> happened to Blake???). So he keeps his mouth shut and waits for more
> information from Orac.
That, too. Besides letting the others see his weakness for Blake, if it
is another trap, he wants to face it alone. He had intended to risk only
himself on Terminal. He would also want to risk only himself on Guada
Prime.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:28:50 -0700
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Expense account
Message-ID: <38EB85E2.CC96985E@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Andrew 2 wrote:
>( i am a different andrew from the other Andrew ( with a capital A ) on the list. )
Gee, I never would have guessed, as Andrew I writes such beautifully
perfect prose, with Capitals, punctuation and paragraphs.
>are there other signs that life is cheap in the federation ?
Servalan's body count alone.
>are there other signs of huge expense in one area but amazing frugality in
other areas ?
The Invasion of Star One - The Federation built a vast minefiled that
must have cost gigabillions, in order to repel an invasion of
eggbeaters.
PatPat
http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707
_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:47:52 -0700
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Action figures
Message-ID: <38EB8A58.2DCB87F0@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Mistral wrote:
>From: Trish, Engineer, who holds Marketing in contempt (do you really need a
>degree to make up products that violate the laws of physics, are impossible
>to produce, and were promised yesterday?)
Yes. In fact, "The Doctor" assures us that he can do exactly that.
And if he fails: no one is indispensable.
>Text: Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off so hard that I may have to
>call in sick to work tomorrow.
Don't bother. You're fired.
SCE just merged with Mattel and Mortal Kombat. We already have B7/MK
cross promos in the works.
PatPat, CEO
Supreme Commander Und Mortal Mattel (SCUMM) Inc.
PP:ka
--
http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707
_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:14:19 -0700
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Action Figures
Message-ID: <38EB908B.A0D8D205@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dana wrote:
>PatPat, splendid suggestions! Can I be your legal department?
<grumble curse> money grubbing lawyers. Where were you before the big
merger?
...
>headline from the New York Times: "Democrats Criticize Gore for Position on Cuban Boy."
Everyone's a critic.
erm: for the record "No comment."
>"My Mom and Dad invaded Cally's brain and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt"
ha ha I love it!
Legal will be sending you a contract for SCUMM production rights.
------
>From: Dana Shilling, Of Counsel, Wolfram & Hart
>Subject: Marketing
>Have reviewed your memo. Sorry if this duplicates material already in your
>file, but if I'm going to be two digests behind, well, there's nothing I can
>do about it.
Enclosing this P.S. as I am 5 posts behind: Taking over ze vorld via
young impressionable minds makes me one busy CEO (Cruel Evil Overlord)
>1. Avon doll likely to be the most popular--good, in light of its propensity
>to destroy all nearby props/accessories.
Not to mention companions.
>Enhanced potential for resales.
>... etc.
Am favorably impressed by your memo. Expect contract in morning post
offering you position at SCUMM of CFO (Chosen Foul One). Suggest you
change name from Shilling to Pounds. Think BIG!
Regards,
PatPat
CEO, SCUMM, Inc.
PP:ag
(ka resigned in a snit upon typing this memo. Had been promised CFO slot
until your timely caution about leaving KA doll too close to the
computer.)
--
http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707
_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:03:49 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
Message-ID: <lKIeLiAlw564EwcH@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20000405105824.77916.qmail@hotmail.com>, Sally Manton
<smanton@hotmail.com> writes
>So my taste runs to...
What she said. And for "Avon looking for Blake".
This is one of the reasons the software hasn't been getting much of a
workout - I know that if I leave it a day, either Betty or Sally will
probably post something to which I can append "me too!" :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:00:04 EDT
From: RCalla6725@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes
Message-ID: <b9.1f41323.261d1164@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Hi,
I'm brand new to this Blake's 7 list, having been drawn in by the repeats. I
was wondering if anyone could give me the URL to sites that have behind the
scenes information?
I've looked through most of the sites, and very much enjoyed them, but was
wondering if there was a site out there concerned with the background of the
series?
In particular I'm curious to know why some of the actors, such as Gareth
Thomas, left the show, and why Terry Nation didn't return as writer for the
fourth season.
Best regards,
Richard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:01:15 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] UnAmerican activities
Message-ID: <a4.29c60cc.261d3bdb@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Lovely stuff from Neil and Una.
Kudos to Neil for resisting the temptation of pointing all of today's evils
on Capitalism, or any other economic system. It is far more complex than
that.
The point that I wanted to make about mental disorders, especially
depression, is really about the impact of expectation in our lives, and how
often the messages that are culturally sanctioned and of course contributed
by the media combine to produce unrealistic expectations. There is a sense
of competition, and a feeling a failure associated with not having or not
*being* what you expect, but this is not a byproduct of capitalism, strictly
speaking. These existential crises -- oh God, I'm 36 and is *this* all I'm
doing with my life? -- arise from reasons more complex than simply economic
factors.
Capitalism offers everyone the same opportunity to succeed but offers no
illusion that everyone is equal. It is fundamental to capitalism that not
everyone can win. A true understanding of that philosophy is to see it as
more Darwinian and in line with my earlier comments about Nature's essential
savagery.
IMHO, the malaise affecting much of industrialized/information age society is
a byproduct of the bastardization between capitalism and socialism which
fosters a sense of entitlement to all of the riches associated with
capitalism's winners. For example: I am equal to everybody else, therefore I
should have what they have, regardless of associated labor, for we no longer
believe that he who reaps sows. If I don't have, or am not living, what my
neighbor has, I may either become depressed and feel a failure, or will want
to take what they have.
Obviously, that's an oversimplification of a complex issue, but the blend of
two highly divergent philosophies, which is pretty much in place in most of
our governments, come together at a common point, the human nature of greed.
Combining greed with the philosophy of equality and with the philosophy of
wealth is the hideous society most of us live in.
(Oh, the US pretends to be capitalistic, but please, any country with social
security, income tax, Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, unemployment, etc., is not
a true capitalistic society. It is a blend.)
Probably many watch B7 and see Avon as an archetype of capitalism: an
out-for-himself, completely selfish bastard. Actually he is more truly
representative of this socialistic capitalism in that he doesn't believe
creating wealth, he just wants wealth, and will take it to satisfy his hunger
for it. Certainly Avon has the brains and ability to create wealth - he
could make a fortune with Avon Computer Consulting, Inc. for example -- but
prefers to steal it from the Federation Bank.
AVON: Listen to me. Wealth is the only reality. And the only way to obtain
wealth is to take it away from somebody else. (Space Fall, as if you didn't
know)
Ahh, not the old fashioned way of EARNING it. So much for Avon the
capitalist.
Certainly a society where human greed is a central factor has a snowball's
chance in you know where of maintaining any real relationship with God. I
agree with you, Neil, that complex scientific "certainties" have replaced the
simpler religious beliefs. The scientific breakthroughs have fostered an
environment of questioning everything and expecting answers that make sense.
How can faith stand up to a scientific model?
I also agree with Una's comments about the promise of reward in the next
life. The movement toward a society that doesn't create wealth but takes it
from somebody else, combined with the increasing secularization that has
eliminated future reward is a bleak picture of today's world and what we can
look forward to in the future. One of the more interesting aspects of B7 is
the acceptance of this bleak vision: the weak will be drugged and used (for
production or cannon fodder) while the strong will abuse. However, the
actions of Blake and others who really believe in the resistance echo the
Augustinian belief that the sacrifices they make now will result in a better
future life. As heaven is not mentioned, nor is religion, the better future
life is likely one for future generations, not for themselves.
This factor was addressed in a previous post (and horribly I've forgotten who
wrote it but the point was excellent). One of the earliest definitions of
American spirit was embodied by the pioneers who made things easier for those
who followed, etc. I don't believe that it was for any intent of making it
easier for those who were weaker, simply an acknowledgment that it was hard
for any of them to survive, and the task of making just one thing easier
might make the difference between life and death.
This is by no means simply an American tradition. Certainly the traditions
came with the immigrants, in much the same way homes would provide shelter
for travelers passing through. All gone and forgotten.
Why? Have we become so insulated and selfish that we no longer believe in
creating a better future for our children? Has the xenophobia of some
countries extended to individual homes? (don't get me started on the loss of
front porches and the construction of walled back yards, never mind the split
of families so that parents and children live hundreds and thousands miles
apart). Yes, to a degree, in that xenophobia is largely fear, and we live in
a fear-driven society. There's no hope for a better life in the hereafter,
so we jealously guard what we now have. After all, it is all that we have.
"B7 could therefore be seen as a reflection of the crisis of confidence
afflicting a culture that has been stripped of its essential certainties."
Excellent stuff Neil. In a culture that in many cases defines itself as
Judeo-Christian (the US still does, but mostly the Protestant tradition, not
the RC), how does society deal with the loss of mainstays to social behavior?
If individuals do not believe in a reward in the hereafter, what *does*
guide their actions? What is the moral compass for this society or is there
one at all?
That's why I love the Avon/Blake conflicts.
BTW Neil, what is the economic culture of penguins?
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:34:37 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Message-ID: <c.3688d43.261d43ad@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dana, Dana, Dana
A powder-blue suit? I'm having flashbacks to my senior prom (no it wasn't my
date in powder blue, it was my best friend's date in a powder blue tux)
Can't we make it silver? Avon looks lovely in silver.
In general, nice job on the Film Noir Avon set. Snap-brim fedora, trench
coat, powder-blue suit (as per The Big Sleep), automatic and extra clips,
supplemental smart ass remark cassette, gardenias for Film Noir Anna, all
excellent. Suggest adding bottle of aspirin (whacks on head also common in
this genre). Also, remove the blackjack: Avon demonstrably will not Play the
Sap despite urging of Dame and Best Pal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:55:31 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <20000405.225533.-89537.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:29:39 +0100 "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk> writes:
>
> Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know
> who
> Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily
> blown into
> oblivion.
>
The answer just hit me! Jenna (free trader and the person expected to
have raw nerves about pirates) took Blake aside and told him that if he
gave into his bleeding heart tendencies to let these people go, he wasn't
supposed to be surprised when the teleport malfunctioned and his atoms on
the galactic express, understood?
Then she pretended to be surprised, so Avon wouldn't think _she_ was
turning into a big bleeding heart (thinking she blew up pirates out of
feelings of justice or something) and start getting on her case about it.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:48:39 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Expense account
Message-ID: <20000405.225533.-89537.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:28:50 -0700 Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
writes:
> The Invasion of Star One - The Federation built a vast minefiled
> that
> must have cost gigabillions, in order to repel an invasion of
> eggbeaters.
Those weren't mines. They were just very, very large eggs.
For further information, please write to:
Federation - Andromedan Pillsbury Bake Off
C/O Wolfram and Hart
Oh, and completely unrelated issue, but I'm hopin I'm not the only one
whose noticed the names of the favorite, corrupt lawyer team on Angel?
Wolf (not a well represented animal in western literature even if you
disregard eating of carrion and, hence, it's association with Ares, the
war god. Then there are werewolves, etc), Ram (probably meant for goat,
an animal also associated with evil), and Hart (as in stag, probably
connecting to certain pagan gods, often associated with death, not to
mention one of its more popular remnants, the Wild Hunt).
Was this the legal firm that helped frame Blake and then shot his lawyer?
And, if wolves are going to come into it, does this mean we need a story
about Jenna walking through a quarry pit (disguised as a wood), wearing a
red cloak of questionable fashion value?
Oh, but wait, Little Red Riding Hood gets sidetracked into a
strategically unimportant plotline, though heavy with - ahem! - possible
meanings, only to reach the designated meeting place and discover the
person she was looking for isn't really there. It's all a trap. Blake -
I mean Grandma - was just the Federation - uh, wolf - in disguise. She's
doomed. She's shot - uh, eaten. Grandma - I mean Blake - is pretty
dead, too. So, it can't be Jenna. It has to be -
No, no, no! Little Red Riding Hood is turning into a PGP / Avon
metaphore! This is too ridiculous!
Although, please note, LRRH (who was in a lot worse shape, what with
being eaten instead of just shot) _survived_.
So, we just need a useful huntsman to arrive and get rid of Servalan ....
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:25:52 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Message-ID: <mY9+f7Aw1764Ewc0@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <009c01bf9f42$6ed56540$f9694e0c@dshilling>, Dana Shilling
<dshilling@worldnet.att.net> writes
> Standards &
>Practices says we can't include a ready-to-hang puppy. Pursue possible
>tie-in with Taco Bell chihuahua.
Yes!
>3. Why not Servalan/Travis Jane Eyre set? Eye & hand already missing, no
>need to retool.
ROFL
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:05:05 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Message-ID: <16.250a531.261d9121@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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>3. Why not Servalan/Travis Jane Eyre set? Eye & hand already missing, no
>need to retool.
Just had image of poor, plain Servalan at that dreadful school. Isn't it
amazing how she transformed herself into a glamorous woman?
Who to play the Mrs.?
Oh yes, the woman of 1000 faces and names .....
Anna Grant/Sula Chesku/Bartholomew/Mrs. Rochester
Trish
(What did he see in her anyway?)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:50:32 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <000c01bf9f98$90de5b00$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Una wrote:
> >People, by and large, prefer simplicity to
> > complexity - it makes life easier and lifts the burden of
decision-making
>
> <innocent voice> Isn't that also the attraction of socialism?
Like any doctrine, it can be simplified to save people the irksome burden of
having to switch their brains on.
>
> I'll take it the wedding's off <sniff>
Sometimes, my dear, one must be cruel to be kind. That's cruel to you and
kind to me, of course:)
> Kai wrote:
>
> > Our whole western tradition of story-telling is permeated by the
influence
> of Judeo-Christian tradition which imposes certain expectations: Good will
> triumph over Evil, justice will be done (eventually), the guilty are
> punished, the righteous rewarded.
>
> I have to say I'm not entirely convinced, altho' there's a lot in that.
> There's a very strong strand in Christian thought (inherited, I think,
from
> Augustine, but any experts out there please correct me), which explains
away
> and makes acceptable injustice in this world on the grounds that rewards
> (and punishments) will be dealt out in the next. This tradition recognizes
> that the guilty *aren't* punished and the righteous *aren't* rewarded -
but
> to enable us to cope with this reality creates the notion that *after*
this
> life, we'll get our rewards in heaven.
Then wouldn't a secularisation of this tradition tend bring the doling out
of just desserts down to this mortal sphere, rather than leaving it all to
the afterlife?
> So, to me, B7 seems to be a rather typically pessimistic secularized
> narrative.
Except within the framework of modern popular entertainment, it isn't all
that typical. In more highbrow circles, though, it's not particularly
remarkable.
Hmmm. B7 as E E 'Doc' Smith meets Orwell via Sam Peckinpah...
Neil
"I am not a man, I am a free number."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:11:46 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <00da01bf9f9f$e60a62c0$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Claudia:
> "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com> wrote:
> : Yes! I agree. In fact, I've come to think that Londo was really the
central
> : character of B5.
>
> I am firmly of this opinion. :) I said last night as friends and I
> watched The Long Night and Into the Fire that I felt Londo's personal
> arc was really what the show was all about (if one *had* to pull one
> narrative thread from the whole). I am so glad for Peter Jurasik's
> sake and for ours that he got the chance to play it. He gave me
> chills of delight right from day one with "nice shark... pretty shark"
> in the pilot movie.
>
> Andreas Katsulas is best at delivering the more inspirational prose JMS
> writes (but then, I really could listen to him read the phone book)...
> but Jurasik and Londo are incredible.
>
> Without him, it's excellent space opera. With him, I think it's
> literature. If B5 is a novel, he's the main character.
But Londo is nothing without G'Kar operating as a comparison. The different
paths that patriotism takes. The eternal cycle of enmity. That scene in
which G'Kar buys Londo a drink and talks about the possibility of peace and
friendship, not knowing that Londo has already screwed Narn, and Londo
*regrets what he's done before it's even started* is a B5 pivot.
If I was going to pick a single character, it would be Sinclair. If only for
aesthetic reasons.
> : John Kenneth Muir, in his "History and Critical Analysis of Blake's 7,"
> : suggests that (for complex reasons that I won't go into here) Avon is
really
> : the central character of B7.
<snip>
> No, if you have to pick a central character, I don't really see how
> it can be anyone but Avon. And yet, I feel that it does the series
> a disservice to look at it in those terms. It wasn't conceived as
> a narrative whole, and Gareth Thomas's departure keeps the later
> seasons from behaving as one might originally have expected. It is
> often the case that the ensemble stars, rather than any one actor.
> So I'd rather not answer the question at all. ;-)
Again, Avon and Blake are mutually dependent. It doesn't matter that Blake
isn't there, in fact, it's only his absence that makes the end so damn good!
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:30:26 +0100
From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C4F0@BRAMLEY>
Content-Type: text/plain
I'm reading my mail piecemeal so I hope I'm not going astray here, but I'd
like to pick up an interesting thread - 'Is Avon a capitalist?'
Does the definition of a word matter? If enough people use the word the
'wrong' way does that mean it becomes the 'right' way? Am I pedantic git?
Regardless, it seems to me that people are using the word 'capitalism'
wrongly. Perhaps this is a cultural difference.
What 'Capitalism' means is that people who own 'capital' (ie the means of
producing goods) do not have to work, but get income by taking a proportion
of the value generated by the each person using that capital (ie the mine
owner takes part of the value generated by the miner).
Now here are some quotes from Trish (not picking on you Trish, your post was
very eloquent so it is good to quote from).
>>Capitalism offers everyone the same opportunity to succeed but offers no
illusion that everyone is equal.
Capitalism by definition does not offer everyone the same opportunity. It
directs social benefits according to inherited or acquired ownership. That's
what it means. I'm not making a moral point, just a linguistic one.
>>any country with social security, income tax, Medicaid, Medicare, welfare,
unemployment, etc., is not a true capitalistic society
Not at all. As long as you can get rich by owning capital, then it is a
capitalist society
>>(quoting Avon )'Wealth is the only reality. And the only way to obtain
wealth is to take it away from somebody else'....not the old fashioned way
of EARNING it. So much for Avon the capitalist.
But, as I say, what Avon is describing is exactly capitalism. Earnings are a
subsidiary form of income in capitalism, income from capital (ie money taken
by people who do not work from those who do) is the main source of wealth in
a capitalist economy. That's why it's called 'capitalism'.
FWIW I think Avon changes his mind several times about what are the real
values that underly a good life, so he was alternately all kinds of 'isms' I
would imagine.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:47:00 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <00b101bf9f9e$379cdf20$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Neil:
> Una wrote:
> > I'll take it the wedding's off <sniff>
>
> Sometimes, my dear, one must be cruel to be kind. That's cruel to you and
> kind to me, of course:)
But Neil, think of the genetic mix. With your brains, *my* brains, and the
looks of an entirely separate person, we could create a GOD!
Neil:
> > So, to me, B7 seems to be a rather typically pessimistic secularized
> > narrative.
>
> Except within the framework of modern popular entertainment, it isn't all
> that typical. In more highbrow circles, though, it's not particularly
> remarkable.
I'm sure we could start trading anecdotal evidence at this point.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:45:05 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0406064505-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 06 Apr, Ellynne G. wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:29:39 +0100 "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know who
> > Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily blown into
> > oblivion.
> >
> The answer just hit me! Jenna (free trader and the person expected to
> have raw nerves about pirates) took Blake aside and told him that if he
> gave into his bleeding heart tendencies to let these people go, he wasn't
> supposed to be surprised when the teleport malfunctioned and his atoms on
> the galactic express, understood?
Well, they did appear to be people who had no qualms about letting an entire
planet starve to death. That makes them ruthless and potentially
extremely dangerous in anyone's book.
I always wonder if Blake was trying to avoid getting into a fight that he might
lose. Remember that Liberator's weapons had yet to be tried in an acutal
battle. His crew (apart possibly from Jenna) were inexperienced in space
combat.
Once these people realised he had the neutrotope, there was no way they were
just going to let Liberator go lightly. The energy banks were virtually
exhausted after two passages through the asteroid field. Liberator was in no
condition to fight or run away.
Is it so surprising that Blake chose to mine the entry lock?
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:37:19 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0406063719-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 05 Apr, RCalla6725@aol.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm brand new to this Blake's 7 list, having been drawn in by the repeats. I
> was wondering if anyone could give me the URL to sites that have behind the
> scenes information?
>
> I've looked through most of the sites, and very much enjoyed them, but was
> wondering if there was a site out there concerned with the background of the
> series?
What you really want is a copy of 'Blakes 7: the inside story'. There's loads
of background stuff, and photos, in that as one of the authors worked on the
series as a make-up artist and she and her husband interviewed loads of people
involved in the series - actors, directors, special effects, etc. (You can find
more details in the 'merchandise' section of http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 )
>
> In particular I'm curious to know why some of the actors, such as Gareth
> Thomas, left the show, and why Terry Nation didn't return as writer for the
> fourth season.
Gareth went to play Orsino in Twelth Night with the Royal Shakespeare Company.
He was worried about being typecast. He also loves Shakespeare. (If you're
interested, there's some pictures from that production in the Gareth Thomas part
of http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 )
David Jackson (Gan) was written out as the writers felt a death was needed to
make the series believable.
Sally Knyvette wanted to leave as she didn't feel Jenna had much to do. Jan
Chappell left because she felt Cally was getting very limited and also because
she wanted to spend more time with her young son. She was also worried about
typecasting.
(some of the cast worries about typecasting were justified. If you're in a
well-known long-running series, there tends to be an assumption that you're not
available for work.)
Terry Nation went to the USA and had very little to do with B7 after that.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 01:08:26 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Avon's search?
Message-ID: <38EC45F9.74A4E9A5@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Avona wrote:
> Which indicates, for whatever reason, they HAVE been collecting rumors
> of Blake's whereabouts. But I suppose that could be Cally's idea.
> Why didn't they look for Jenna? Mmm. Jenna made a few anti-alien
> comments in front of Cally. And then she and Avon often snarled at each
> other. Why didn't Vila suggest they keep an eye out for her, though? .
Presumably Jenna (1) wasn't famous enough to generate rumors,
and (2) was most likely to be found in proximity to Blake, since
she left with him.
And in regard to the discussion that comes up on occasion about
why Blake and Jenna didn't contact Liberator--perhaps it's not
that they both had broken bracelets, but just that they were out
of Zen's range. This is particularly easy to justify if Liberator was
too damaged when they left to recall its position accurately.
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:44:13 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <00b001bf9f9e$371c8b90$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Kai:
> Una wrote:
>
> <There's a very strong strand in Christian thought (inherited, I think,
from
> Augustine, but any experts out there please correct me), which explains
away
> and makes acceptable injustice in this world on the grounds that rewards
> (and punishments) will be dealt out in the next.>
>
> Actually, that "eventually" in my post was suppose to indicate this (of
> course it didn't).
Ah, skim reading. Bad habit, but a necessary one for survival. Please
forgive me.
> Things are made good in the afterlife even if you have
> to suffer in this one, and the sinner will eventually get his
> comeuppance. The Judeo-Christian thinking sees time as linear, with
> Creation as the beginning and the Last Judgement looming at the end of the
> story. The central convention is that the story should have a clear
> conclusion and by that conclusion things should be made right.
> But having removed God, we've
> also removed the undividable, transcendental signifier, the fulcrum on
> which this construct rested. We cling to its ideals and conventions but
> lacking the fixed, redeeming constant, it falls apart bit by bit, while no
> successful replacement has been found to fix things (Reason got a bad rap
> during the 20th Century, Love is a perennial contender but so far has
> failed to deliver, while Greed is ever popular but lacks a sustainable
> agenda).
There's always Justice. Incidentally, whatever rap Reason, God and Justice
and the rest have got in intellectual circles over the past century, I
reckon an awful lot of ordinary people still subscribe to them as ways of
sense-making.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:46:51 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's taste in women
Message-ID: <20000406094651.78876.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
<snip>
>To Vila's credit, he was not much afraid of Kerril, even in her 'bad
>grrrl black' get up. Yet he was clearly afraid of Bayban (expressed by
>his best babble fest ever). Is this lack of reaction a sexist thing?
I always assumed it was more to do with the fact that Bayban:
a) was clearly a raving psycho.
b) had a reputation for being a violent raving psycho.
whereas Kerrill, whilst being tough and serious was at least sane and
reasonably reasonable.
Either that or Vila is as supremely confident of his ability with the
'ladies' as he is of his ability with locks. ;)
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 02:12:04 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Action figures
Message-ID: <38EC54E3.7076C1A@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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PatPat, CEO of SCUMM, Inc. wrote:
> Mistral wrote:
>
> >From: Trish, Engineer, who holds Marketing in contempt
Huh? Who, me? No, ma'am, that was Trish. I've been down
here in my cubicle in Design for days, working on those new
products you wanted:
The Deeta Conversion Pak (for Tarrant doll):
Stick-on sideburns
Quick-draw Arm Accelerator
(guaranteed to work against all dolls except androids & Soolin)
The Mutoid Conversion Pak (for Soolin doll):
Regulation uniform
Regulation blaster
Regulation mind-sucking, personality-sucking symbiotic hat
The Shivan Conversion Pak (for Travis II doll):
Black robe
10 metres of gauze bandage
Looped tape of inarticulate groans and grunts
The Sleer Conversion Pak (for Servalan doll):
Black feather-edged cape
Tear duct attachment (cries when exposed to Sand)
Completely transparent disguise that only Scorpio crewmembers
can see through without being killed by the end of the episode
The Hal Mellanby doll:
Completely submersible
Comes with indoor firing range
Marches to the tune of "Different Drum"
The Zil doll:
Lectures on philosophy
Stays in constant motion
Requires super-heavy-duty battery; when battery runs out,
doll expires
The Ushton doll:
Comes with knife, bundle of sticks, headband
Limps in proximity to Blake doll
The Tynus doll:
Comes with sketch pad and miniature caged insect
Vinyl overcoat
Programmed to stab Avon doll in the back
The Dorian doll:
Automatically deteriorates
After first purchase, can only be replaced by trade in of
another doll. Each subsequent trade in requires one more
doll to be traded in than the last.
Mistral
(can I have my soma break now?)
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
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