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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 102
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures.
Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes
[B7L] credit cards
RE: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #101
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] More dolls
Re: [B7L] More dolls
Re: [B7L] More dolls
[B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
[B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
[B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
[B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
[B7L] re:apology
RE: [B7L]Collectors Lot
[B7L] Zenith
RE: [B7L] call the BBC
Re: [B7L] Expense account
Re: [B7L] B7 action figures legal firm
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Avon and $$$
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Re: b7spin: b7spin: RSI
Re: [B7L] Zenith
Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities
Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities)
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:02:05 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures.
Message-ID: <88T42wANtP74EwUM@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <38ECA402.4CB8@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes
>Say, is anyone collecting the info on the 'dolls', the legal and
>marketing memos, etc?
>It seems like with editing it would make a good addition to someone's
>website.
>
It is being tagged for the Space City zine. At some point I shall go
around annoying authors with pleas to be allowed to use it. However, if
anyone else wants to play with it, I shall desist.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:57:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0406195718-572Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 06 Apr, RCalla6725@aol.com wrote:
> Oh, so quite straightforward, no behind-the-scenes cast tensions or anything
> then? I assume all the cast members got on well, though I did read an
> interview with Jacqueline Pearce where she claimed disagreements with the
> production staff kept her out of the last few episodes...
Most of the cast got on extremely well - in fact it's been said several times
that the show probably only worked because of that. The shooting shcedules
were so tight that if they hadn't got on, it would all have fallen a heap.
Methinks you need to listen to some of the cast reunion tapes. When you hear
Paul and Gareth swopping jokes and anecdotes and cheerfully upstaging one
another, you'll get a fair idea what the series was like behind the scenes.
Look on my web site for the 'Together Again' audio tapes. They feature quite a
few cast members and some of the anecdotes are hilarious. Sheelagh started
recording them a few years ago (she's doing the latest one any time now) and
most of them are still available.
Hear directors and producers discussing how they got around budget problems and
the joys of filming in quarries.
Jackie did have a disagreement - there seem to be two views on that one. She
certainly was very upset at being left out of the final episode and felt that
she had been deliberately slighted. The production/writer apparantly said that
she'd done the number of episodes that she was contracted for for the 4th season
and that the other reason she was left out was because it was becoming
dramatically implausible to have Servalan turn up everywhere.
Jackie is on one of the tapes, but I can't recall if that's something she talks
about as I've just lent my copies to a friend.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:23:16 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] credit cards
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0406212316-927Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
After an initial glitch on foreign currency transactions (caused by Worldpay not
setting up a file correctly) we now have the other currencies working as well as
pounds. We just successfully processed the first dollar order and pounds have
been working fine for several days.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:22:45 -0700
From: "Otewalt, Andrew" <Andrew.Otewalt@kla-tencor.com>
To: "'mistral@ptinet.net'" <mistral@ptinet.net>,
B7 List
<blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <3B5D5F691204D3118C0400A0C911A490012F9044@milxpr05.kla-tencor.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Mistral writes:
I've often suspected that most of the arguments in the world are caused by
people misunderstanding each other's terminology.
question: would this be cured by all of us speaking esperanto ?
or do we need to read the same dictionary ?
- andrew -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:31:14 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <42.3c14b94.261e5c22@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Iain wrote:
> I find this a little odd. For all the great virtues of capitalism, it is
> manifestly inconsistent with some of the most famous sayings of Jesus.
You're right Iain (I pronounced it Trixie). Much of what is in the New
Testament is closer in nature to socialism than capitalism. I wonder how St.
Joseph would feel about sharing the wealth he made? I think you'll find most
of the comments related to the worker keeping his wealth more in the Old
Testament.
Trish
(can't wait to see what I've stirred up this time)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 00:41:09 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <003201bfa021$c8ab55e0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Mistral said -
>>In the US, capitalism means that people are entitled to accumulate and
>control >whatever wealth they can earn; and it's deeply rooted in our
>Judeo-Christian heritage
But in fact 'capitalism' is one of those words which was invented
by a particular person and defined in a particular book (like 'relativity'
or 'Islam') so we do know exactly what it means, in any country. It means an
economic system where the dominant group generate income from capital
('ownership of the means of production') rather than from working. The
person who defined it was, of course, an atheist though admittedly from a
Jewish cultural background.
I think that people are confusing 'capitalism' with 'private property',
which clearly existed well before capitalism - for example in the Roman
empire, or in feudal Europe. And of course predates Christianity.
Avon clearly did believe in private property, after a fashion, and so did
Blake ('my computer', 'my ship'). However, ironically, I think they owned
very little, not in the sense that we own things anyway. They lived in a
communal space, ate communal food (I guess - unless there was a pay as you
go cafeteria on the Liberator), wore clothes taken from a communal room etc.
Didn't seem to bother them either did it? Though I wonder what happened to
the gambling winnings?
Trish said -
>The essential nature of capitalism is based on the belief that wealth comes
>from work, and that what the individual creates through his own work
belongs
>to him.
If you really allowed workers to keep everything they created through their
work, then capitalism would collapse of course. Bill Gates would be a lot
poorer for a start.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:21:58 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #101
Message-ID: <38ED1C16.669F@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > The Klute:
> > Comes with play-along chess set with built in joy-buzzer action for when
> > you lose.
> > Self-destructs if you beat the chess program. (repurchases very likely)
> > Obnoxious laugh
> > (Seperately available conversion kits to turn Klute doll into Moloch or
> > Tharn.)
>
> What about the Link and Decima options? (the Tharn is cheating <grin> -
> different actor)
>
> Judith
Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending
posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll
suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:13:55 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <5b.42a53a0.261e8243@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mistral wrote:
I've often suspected that most of the arguments in the world are caused by
people misunderstanding each other's terminology.
andrew (small a) replied:
question: would this be cured by all of us speaking esperanto ?
or do we need to read the same dictionary ?
Yes, to the second. With only the Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged, I have
OED envy.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:15:46 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot
Message-ID: <20000407001547.77086.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>After watching yesterday's Collectors Lot (very enjoyable)
>I had a couple of questions:
>
>(1) was the Federation guard who ran on at the end
> anyone we know?
I don't know, but his aim was too good. Did you see all those lovely
teleport bracelets go up in smoke! Please tell me they were stunt bracelets!
I also thought the collectors lot program was very good. An excellent
showcase of some of the props, costumes and merchandise from the show,
displayed in a fantastic setting. Shame it wasn't longer.
Together with the article on page 331 on 4-tel it has provided quite an
advertisment for the world of Blake's 7.
Andy.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:23:03 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <ee.37621a3.261e8467@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Alison wrote:
If you really allowed workers to keep everything they created through their
work, then capitalism would collapse of course. Bill Gates would be a lot
poorer for a start.
Not to draw too fine a line, but there is a considerable difference between a
worker/laborer and an employee. An employee agrees to work for someone else
who provides all of the capital that makes the business run. The employee
contributes his/her labor and receives a wage in return. S/he is not
entitled to keep everything made as s/he has sold the labor for a wage.
I agree with your comments about the small if any personal property on B7.
The few times we see their cabins, there is no personalization. Even knowing
that none of them were allowed to bring personal property on The London, and
all apparently exist without real ties to others, none of them accumulate
anything during the years some of them live on Liberator. I think that is
really interesting and would love to hear some dialogue on why these very
diverse personalities are all apparently minimalists.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:44:49 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] More dolls
Message-ID: <20000407004449.36097.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
No, I'm afraid it's not more additions to the growing and extremely
entertaining list of Blakes 7 action dolls. Sorry to disappoint, but it
seemed a semi-appropriate thread to come in on.
A while ago I started buying the Harlequin range of 25mm Dr Who mimiatures
which are released at the rate of 8 a month. During one of my phone calls to
them I asked if they planned to release any other range of sci-fi figures?
They said there would be a major sci-fi line released soon, not long after,
their Babylon 5 range appeared. I asked if Blakes 7 featured in their plans?
To my surprise the chap I was speaking to, didn't say "Blake What?" Instead,
he said not at the moment but watch this space. That happened early last
year. I don't know if anyone would be interested in 25mm Blakes 7 figures.
If you would, it can't hurt to drop Harlequin a line and let them know.
Their address & telephone number is: HARLEQUIN MINIATURES LTD, UNIT S3, 632
RADFORD ROAD, BASFORD, NOTTINGHAM, NG7 7EX. (0115 942 2265)
Meanwhile please keep all those action figure suggestions flowing onto the
lyst.
Andy.
The Dr Who range is brilliant it would be nice to have a B7 one as well.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:45:02 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] More dolls
Message-ID: <20000407004502.58040.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
No, I'm afraid it's not more additions to the growing and extremely
entertaining list of Blakes 7 action dolls. Sorry to disappoint, but it
seemed a semi-appropriate thread to come in on.
A while ago I started buying the Harlequin range of 25mm Dr Who mimiatures
which are released at the rate of 8 a month. During one of my phone calls to
them I asked if they planned to release any other range of sci-fi figures?
They said there would be a major sci-fi line released soon, not long after,
their Babylon 5 range appeared. I asked if Blakes 7 featured in their plans?
To my surprise the chap I was speaking to, didn't say "Blake What?" Instead,
he said not at the moment but watch this space. That happened early last
year. I don't know if anyone would be interested in 25mm Blakes 7 figures.
If you would, it can't hurt to drop Harlequin a line and let them know.
Their address & telephone number is: HARLEQUIN MINIATURES LTD, UNIT S3, 632
RADFORD ROAD, BASFORD, NOTTINGHAM, NG7 7EX. (0115 942 2265)
Meanwhile please keep all those action figure suggestions flowing onto the
lyst.
Andy.
The Dr Who range is brilliant it would be nice to have a B7 one as well.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:46:48 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] More dolls
Message-ID: <20000407004648.17611.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
No, I'm afraid it's not more additions to the growing and extremely
entertaining list of Blakes 7 action dolls. Sorry to disappoint, but it
seemed a semi-appropriate thread to come in on.
A while ago I started buying the Harlequin range of 25mm Dr Who mimiatures
which are released at the rate of 8 a month. During one of my phone calls to
them I asked if they planned to release any other range of sci-fi figures?
They said there would be a major sci-fi line released soon, not long after,
their Babylon 5 range appeared. I asked if Blakes 7 featured in their plans?
To my surprise the chap I was speaking to, didn't say "Blake What?" Instead,
he said not at the moment but watch this space. That happened early last
year. I don't know if anyone would be interested in 25mm Blakes 7 figures.
If you would, it can't hurt to drop Harlequin a line and let them know.
Their address & telephone number is: HARLEQUIN MINIATURES LTD, UNIT S3, 632
RADFORD ROAD, BASFORD, NOTTINGHAM, NG7 7EX. (0115 942 2265)
Meanwhile please keep all those action figure suggestions flowing onto the
lyst.
Andy.
The Dr Who range is brilliant it would be nice to have a B7 one as well.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:52:47 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
Message-ID: <20000407005247.8281.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending
>posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll
>suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me.
Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go
missing! :)
Andy.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:53:05 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
Message-ID: <20000407005305.59747.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending
>posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll
>suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me.
Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go
missing! :)
Andy.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:53:05 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
Message-ID: <20000407005305.35912.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending
>posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll
>suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me.
Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go
missing! :)
Andy.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:54:47 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls
Message-ID: <20000407005447.92150.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending
>posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll
>suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me.
Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go
missing! :)
Andy.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:58:40 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re:apology
Message-ID: <20000407005840.20344.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Apologies that my "more dolls" post appeared 3 times on the lyst. I have no
idea how it happened. It is late and I'm just an inexperienced lurker I'm
afraid.
Andy.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 02:48:33 +0100
From: "Andy Hopkinson" <andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L]Collectors Lot
Message-ID: <OFEJJKHJKAJGONINCJKMMEDNCDAA.andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Julie wrote:
>After watching yesterday's Collectors Lot (very enjoyable)
>I had a couple of questions:
>(1) was the Federation guard who ran on at the end
>anyone we know?
That depends on who you know!
The Federation Guard was played by Alan Stevens.
>(2) I followed the teletext link and saw a reference to an
>upcoming publication called "Zenith". Would this be
>NL 40 that wasn't?
Zenith is a magazine in it's own right. A number of the features that were
written and laid out for H40 have now dated, and therefore have been
scrapped. New features have been written, including an interview with Paul
Darrow about The Strangerers which will include many behind the scenes
photos, which have never been seen before.
Andy.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 02:48:31 +0100
From: "Andy Hopkinson" <andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Zenith
Message-ID: <OFEJJKHJKAJGONINCJKMKEDNCDAA.andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andy Hopkinson wrote:
>>Alan and I will be publishing a B7 magazine of our own. It's an
experiment.
>>We don't know if it will be a success so we're only trying one issue
initially.
>>If people like it, we'll do another.
Andrew Spencer wrote:
>Sounds good, is there any more information about the magazine?
Yes!
>What is it going to be called?
It is going to be called Zenith.
>How much will it cost?
Don't know yet, but as soon as I have a figure, We'll let you know.
>When will it be available?
Soon! Very soon! A matter of weeks!
>Will it be in colour?
Some of it will be, yes.
>Is it going to be a mix of fiction/non-fiction or is it going to favour one
over the other?
It will have interviews, reviews, location visits, in-depth character
analysis and perhaps *some* fiction. We've put a lot of work into it, but if
it is to continue then it will need the support of all B7 fans out there.
Andy.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 02:48:36 +0100
From: "Andy Hopkinson" <andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] call the BBC
Message-ID: <OFEJJKHJKAJGONINCJKMAEDOCDAA.andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Alison wrote:
>I just this minute phoned the BBC duty log on
>08700 100 222
>and told them that I loved Blakes 7, that they had to show all four series
>in order, and that it was the only thing I watched on BBC on a Saturday
(hem
>hem - well I had to rub it in)
>Anyway the guy on the other end was really sweet, and we had a bit of a
>chat, and he said he liked B7 too, and he was going to pass on my message,
>and also add one in his own name too. So that's two more than there were
ten
>minutes ago.
I have some disturbing news.
At the moment the BBC intend to end the Blake's 7 repeats after Orac.
(There are even some rumours that the repeats may end after Duel or Project
Avalon, though this may just be paranoia).
I think it would be a good idea if we all followed Alison's example and
phoned up the BBC after every episode, telling them that we like the series
and that we would be really pleased if the repeats continued into the second
series.
It would also be a good idea if everyone wrote/ring the Radio Times and
Points of View, saying that we approve of the repeats and would like them to
continue.
Radio Times
80 Wood Lane
London
W12 OTT
Tel: 0870 608 4455
FAX: 020 8433 3923
email: radio.times@bbc.co.uk
Points of View
BBC TV
London
W12 7TS
Tel/FAX: 020 8811 1050
email: pov@bbc.co.uk
Terry Wogan is presenting the show at the moment.
There is the Wogan factor to consider here.
He was a great advocate of the series in the '70's, now that he is back on
Radio 2 in the mornings, why don't we all send him some witty letters about
the show!
Andy.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 01:18:13 -0400
From: DDJ <frazzled@keystonenet.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Expense account
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000407011813.006c21f8@keystonenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>No, no, no! Little Red Riding Hood is turning into a PGP / Avon
>metaphore! This is too ridiculous!
>
>Although, please note, LRRH (who was in a lot worse shape, what with
>being eaten instead of just shot) _survived_.
>
Just in the German version. In the French version, only the wolf
survives. (Probably the version Avon would've appreciated -- the moral
is, loosely, that trusting the wrong person gets you killed.) And in the
earliest versions, Red outwits the wolf and never gets eaten at all.
(Does that make it an AU instead?)
DDJ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:01:53 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 action figures legal firm
Message-ID: <20000406.232447.-88313.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:17:39 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes:
> > C/O Wolfram and Hart
Ram (probably meant for
> goat,
> > an animal also associated with evil),
> Those are called Billies.
Sorry, I should have clarified. When I said 'meant for' I meant it in
the sense of 'that was probably considered close enough by writers living
in a big city where they probably haven't seen farm animals for years, if
ever.' You know, like in the way many people don't differentiate between
flock and herd (or various other terms describing groups of animals),
because it's no longer very pertinent knowledge to have or information to
give.
Or maybe they just thought 'Wolf-billie' wasn't very intimidating.
But, Ram is the sign of Aries, which
> sounds
> like Ares, god of war. Also, if you aren't paying close attention,
> sounds like they are saying Wolfman.
Good point! I hadn't thought of either of those possibilities.
> and Hart (as in stag, probably
> > connecting to certain pagan gods, often associated with death, not
> to
> > mention one of its more popular remnants, the Wild Hunt).
> Or as a homophone for heart, the organ that pumps blood through the
> human circulatory system, and is the main point of weakness on a
> vampire.
Or the thing which Avon claims not to have.
So this is what his teddy bear's been up to.
Ellynne
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:59:29 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <20000406.232447.-88313.1.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:31:14 EDT Prmolloy@aol.com writes:
> Iain wrote:
>
> You're right Iain (I pronounced it Trixie). Much of what is in the
> New
> Testament is closer in nature to socialism than capitalism. I
> wonder how St.
> Joseph would feel about sharing the wealth he made? I think you'll
> find most
> of the comments related to the worker keeping his wealth more in the
> Old
> Testament.
>
General agreement on NT with one addition. At least in my neck of the
woods, there is a heavy emphasis on this being a _willing_ sharing on the
part of the person with wealth rather than a _forced_ sharing instituted
by the person(s) with power, that is, if you want to call it exercising
virtue or doing good.
Without going into a really long discussion on the differences and
similarities between the OT and the NT, the OT had a lot of reasons to
lay down the law (so to speak) on behavior from a civil or legal point of
view (and I'd say that commandments in the NT were generally meant in
context of working with those in the OT except in cases where they
superceded it), which was not so much the NT focus. So, simply because
you believe in donating all your time and efforts to charity does not
mean you should expect someone you hire to fix the pipes to have the same
attitude - or to hold it against them if they don't.
Of course, the Federation's attitude towards money is open to question.
Most of the people B7 focused on were living in state housing and had
government jobs. Although there clearly was a money economy of some kind
going, how much the average citizen could participate in it major wage
earning - even if they had exceptional skills - is open to question.
Ellynne
> Trish
> (can't wait to see what I've stirred up this time)
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:24:45 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon and $$$
Message-ID: <20000406.232447.-88313.2.rilliara@juno.com>
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If I had to make a guess, I'd say the average Federation citizen had
little chance to get rich. Social rank was determined in supposedly fair
testing, but there are enough indications family position and influence
played a part in how people were graded (Kasabi's references to
Servalan's connections, a certain up and coming officer's complaint that
he lost the promotion to the less gifted guy with the right connections,
Blake's relatives being sent to a better than average prison colony
[implying Rushton was also an alpha] all come to mind).
Since Avon equated money with power, and no one ever flat out
contradicted him (except to point out fire power also could equal more
power), one might assume a tight connection. Maybe poor, little peons
worked for companies or guilds that automatically took credit for all
their inventions (Weapon). Hence, Avon might think about selling the
Federation tech information once he was operating outside any else's
system but there's no indication he tried this while in the Federation
(at least, he doesn't talk about the great pay scale on the teleport
project).
There also seems to have been the attitude that there was a limited
supply of wealth, since Avon equated increasing his piece of the pie as
being a chunk out of everyone else's. This isn't an uncommon attitude,
though more common in more stagnant cultures.
If the Federation supplies certain basic needs for its citizens
(variations based on social rank) and money impacts the average citizen
as a source of extras (for Vila, wine, women, and song. For Avon, the
latest Nintendo) or as a source of influence (example: head of business
controlling needed labor or supplies). This might explain why, despite
their many differences, the Liberator crew actually adjusts well to
communal living - experience.
Jenna, who operated as an independent smuggler, may have been in it for
the money but, if she was used to ship living, should also be used to
some kind of communal living (assuming she didn't follow the pirate
scenario). Given the exceptional size of the Liberator, that might have
also meant she was used to Spartan quarters. The only _personal_
possesion we know she has is her necklace (I know it came off, but I'm
still wondering if it wasn't part of some cybernetic implant they stick
on some pilots). Avon made particular note in Deliverance that she
wouldn't have left if behind willingly.
Cally wasn't from Earth, but one assumes telepaths used to going along
with the great, telepathic majority and never being alone, can adjust to
communal life.
Vila may have been a thief, but he obviously knew how to adjust to
whichever way the wind was blowing in whichever group he happened to be
stuck with.
As to the gambling money, Cally found out about it and got Vila to sign
the whole savings account over to widows and orphans while drunk (I don't
know the exact charity, but it's not like they would have had trouble
finding a bunch in need).
Ellynne
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:23:54 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <032701bfa062$44874c60$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Alison wrote:
> Mistral said -
>
> >>In the US, capitalism means that people are entitled to accumulate and
> >control >whatever wealth they can earn; and it's deeply rooted in our
> >Judeo-Christian heritage
>
> But in fact 'capitalism' is one of those words which was invented
> by a particular person and defined in a particular book (like 'relativity'
> or 'Islam') so we do know exactly what it means, in any country. It means
an
> economic system where the dominant group generate income from capital
> ('ownership of the means of production') rather than from working.
Not wanting to sound like I'm marking essays, but thank you, Alison, for a
precise and contextualized definition. Interestingly, I note that that
definition does not preclude a 'dominant group' which defines itself as 'the
state'.
> I think that people are confusing 'capitalism' with 'private property',
Definitely.
> which clearly existed well before capitalism - for example in the Roman
> empire, or in feudal Europe. And of course predates Christianity.
And, just to plug my hero, there is an unparalleled dissection of the
private property debate in More's 'Utopia'.
Umm, B7... Good, isn't it?
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:20:49 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <032601bfa062$4420e970$0d01a8c0@codex>
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andrew wrote:
> Mistral writes:
> I've often suspected that most of the arguments in the world are caused by
> people misunderstanding each other's terminology.
>
> question: would this be cured by all of us speaking esperanto ?
> or do we need to read the same dictionary ?
Brr, shades of '1984'. I'll keep the messy uncertainties of potential
misunderstandings, thank you very much.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:26:35 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: b7spin: b7spin: RSI
Message-ID: <38ED8DAB.B7081F25@ptinet.net>
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Julia Jones wrote:
> Dragon Naturally Speaking 4, Standard version.
Thank you for the report, Julia. I've just one more question.
Do you have to speak loudly in order for the program to work
properly, or does softly work as well, as long as you speak
distinctly?
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 08:55:14 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith
Message-ID: <20000407085514.30651.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Andy Hopkinson wrote:
>It will have interviews, reviews, location visits, in-depth character
>analysis and perhaps *some* fiction. We've put a lot of work into it, but
>if
>it is to continue then it will need the support of all B7 fans out there.
>Andy.
Well you've got mine. Just let me know how much (when you know) and how to
get it and you can put me down for a copy.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:39:45 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: stickman1968@hotmail.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot
Message-ID: <20000407093945.84308.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
>To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
>Subject: Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot
>Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:15:46 GMT
>
>
>
>
>>After watching yesterday's Collectors Lot (very enjoyable)
>>I had a couple of questions:
>>
>>(1) was the Federation guard who ran on at the end
>> anyone we know?
>
>I don't know, but his aim was too good. Did you see all those lovely
>teleport bracelets go up in smoke! Please tell me they were stunt
>bracelets!
Yeah, specially trained Mongolian stunt braclets that were found performing
in a circus in Minsk four years ago and smuggled into the country wrapped in
condoms and hidden inside the bellys of King Penguins! (thought I had to get
penguins in there somewhere!)
:)
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 12:55:31 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <20000407125531.13016.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
>To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
>Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
>Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:45:05 +0100 (BST)
>
>On Thu 06 Apr, Ellynne G. wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:29:39 +0100 "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk>
>writes:
> > >
> > > Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know who
> > > Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily blown
>into
> > > oblivion.
> > >
> > The answer just hit me! Jenna (free trader and the person expected to
> > have raw nerves about pirates) took Blake aside and told him that if he
> > gave into his bleeding heart tendencies to let these people go, he
>wasn't
> > supposed to be surprised when the teleport malfunctioned and his atoms
>on
> > the galactic express, understood?
>
>Well, they did appear to be people who had no qualms about letting an
>entire
>planet starve to death. That makes them ruthless and potentially
>extremely dangerous in anyone's book.
Not necessarily - that presumes that Sara told her contacts that she was
stealing the neutrotope from a bunch of desperate people. Maybe the people
who were coming to buy it were equally desperate and didn't ask too many
questions about where she was getting it from. (I'm not sure that if I were
Sara I'd admit to stealing the neutrotope and condemming my own planet to
death, it might make people distrust me. I'd just make myself seem like a
legitimate vendor.)
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:04:46 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <20000407130446.34573.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: "Hellen Paskaleva" <hellen_pas@hotmail.com>
>To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
>Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
>Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:29:50 PDT
>
>Mat and Ariana:
>>> > explosive device that Blake placed on the entry hatch...
>>>Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know who
>>>Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily blown
>>>into
>>>oblivion.
>>
>>Exactly my thought Ariana. Blake had no information about Sara's buyers at
>>all, he simply *assumed* that they were nasty and blew them up.
>
>*We* have no information who they were. Blake obviously had.
I don't see that at all. Where would he have got this information from
anyway? Presumably only Sara knew who her contacts were.
I see Blake making a snap decision about a percieved threat without actually
taking the time to find out anything. Besides there really was no need to
blow up the ship, despite the depleted energy banks the Liberator could
easily have escaped whilst the two ships were docking if Blake was relly
worried about a battle.
<snip>
>>Would you really want a man like that running the Government? :)
>
>If it were up to me, I would undoubtedly answer with "yes", because extreme
>situations need desperate measures and a person, brave enough to take the
>responsibility for them.
provided that those decisions are reasonable and informed, not merely
explosive kneee-jerk reactions.
(Moreover, people, who are ready to doom a
>whole
>planet to starvation, death and Federal yoke, *deserve* their fate.)
We don't know that they knew anything about conditions on Destiny or about
the neutrotope's current owners. Also, presumably, if they needed the
neutrotope they had problems similar to Destiny's anyway. Maybe they were
their planet's last hope and Blake has just condemmed their planet to
starvation! Also I'm not sure that it is up to Blake to appoint himself
judge, jury and executioner.
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 05:14:12 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities
Message-ID: <38EDD113.EACF30FC@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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BTW, just noticed the last post went to the wrong list, sorry.
Re Avon creating wealth, Trish said:
> I wonder how confined he really was in an
> expanding empire.
We're told in Aftermath that Federation citizens needed
permission to relocate (somehow I don't believe Servalan
about the 'small' fine). Given the relative value of his skills
on Earth vs. a frontier world, I doubt he'd be given permission.
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 06:34:29 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities)
Message-ID: <38EDE3E5.97024786@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Julia Jones wrote:
> Good god, this time it's Mistral's post I can append "me too!" to.
> (Don't all faint in shock.)
Um. Well, if you want, we could always argue about what Avon
would have liked to do if he'd been given the choice :)
I'm thinking, in an environment he felt safe in, he'd have liked to
do pure research. He loves to tinker, explore, invent. Research
would have given him enjoyment in his work, a good chance at
putting his name on something, and an outside chance at getting
rich (which I think would have diminished in importance if he
felt in control of his own life.)
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:20:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: sjk3@cornell.edu
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000407101855.11865A-100000@travelers.mail.cornell.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Blake didn't even have to be physically present in the last two seasons. He
> was a dominant force, and may have been even more so without exposure to the
> real human falliable Blake. It was enough that Avon believed Blake was out
> there, until of course they very very end when Avon ended the search rather
> abruptly.
>
> Trish
This is interesting. Was Blake the legend a more powerful motivator,
even for the crew, than Blake the man? Did Avon find it easier to blame
Blake for failures when he (Blake) wasn't there to present his case?
Sandra Kisner
sjk3@cornell.edu
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