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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 103
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Apologies/fanfic
[B7L] Red Ridding Hood (was Expense account)
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Desperately seeking Blake (was Avon seeking)
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Bye
Re: [B7L] Zenith
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Life imitating art
[B7L] Anna's Name: Excessive Optimism
[B7L] Blakes7 Action Figures
Re: [B7L] Blakes7 Action Figures
Re: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake (as longish as usual)
Re: [B7L] Re:Avon's search?
[B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Re: [B7L] Anna's attempted coup
[B7L] Drugging of population on Earth
Re: Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities)
Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film. (ooops)
Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
[B7L] Re: Raiker
[B7L] Re:Bercol & Rontane
[B7L] Avon's Job
[B7L] Avon's Father
[B7L] Anna again
[B7L] Anna's attempted coup
[B7L] Re:Avon's search?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 07:35:23 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <38EDF22A.A957767D@ptinet.net>
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Trish wrote:
> Iain wrote:
>
> > I find this a little odd. For all the great virtues of capitalism, it is
> > manifestly inconsistent with some of the most famous sayings of Jesus.
>
> You're right Iain (I pronounced it Trixie). Much of what is in the New
> Testament is closer in nature to socialism than capitalism. I wonder how St.
> Joseph would feel about sharing the wealth he made? I think you'll find most
> of the comments related to the worker keeping his wealth more in the Old
> Testament.
For the most part, I can just 'me too' Ellynne's reply to this.
Actually, 'me too' with lots of bouncings. <bounce>
Some traditions view the NT as a negation or reversal of the OT;
I think it's more appropriate to view it as an expansion and an
extension. Property rights are carefully codified into the Mosaic
Law; it is BAD to take other people's stuff. Jesus came along and
said, it is GOOD to give/share what you have. And that was directed
to his followers. There's no suggestion in Jesus's teachings, or that of
the apostles, that it's acceptable to coerce people to give/share.
(I should probably say that I agree take=bad, give/share=good.)
The problem, IMO, is that society has gone from give/share=good,
to give/share=should, to notgive/notshare=bad, to you must give/share
and we will make you. Which means that society/government is
violating take=bad. This takes give/share out of the realm of
voluntary service to God and/or mankind, and into the realm of
involuntary servitude to the state. Tyranny of the majority again,
and I do not approve, because in effect it passes a particular morality
into law, and I prefer laws to stay out of morality except insofar as
is necessary to protect citizens from being violated by others.
Kicking and screaming back to B7: One of the things that I
notice about Avon, is that he is often willing to help people, even
at his own expense, when it's his own idea, or when he's asked
politely. It's when somebody tries to guilt or coerce him into
doing something for others that he resists. I do think this is a key
piece to his personality. He does not like to be told what to do. I
think it relates to that sense of being boxed in that led him into
crime. So, in a sense, when he argues with Blake, he is really
still subconsciously fighting his personal war with the society he
grew up in, because it's to a certain extent the sensation of fear
and coercion he's fighting, not Blake's ideas themselves. (cf. Duel).
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:47:56 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Apologies/fanfic
Message-ID: <20000407.081306.-76133.1.rilliara@juno.com>
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Was rereading a certain fanfic I had made some harsh comments about, I
realized I was being unfair.
While the word "Soulmates" makes me break out in hives (an aspect of my
life I have no intention of changing, especially after certain, nonlist
related experiences), I shouldn't have flipped out just because an author
chose to use it.
And, I admit, just because the author didn't get my favorite couple
together (grumble, gripe).
That was her perogative. Outside of my personal prejudices, it was a
fine story.
As to what I like in a story: characterization, unexpected turns in the
plot, and angst.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:29:50 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Red Ridding Hood (was Expense account)
Message-ID: <20000407.081306.-76133.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 01:18:13 -0400 DDJ <frazzled@keystonenet.com> writes:
>
> Just in the German version. In the French version, only the wolf
> survives. (Probably the version Avon would've appreciated -- the
> moral
> is, loosely, that trusting the wrong person gets you killed.) And
> in the
> earliest versions, Red outwits the wolf and never gets eaten at
> all.
> (Does that make it an AU instead?)
>
Probably. Actually, my favorite version has Red equipped with a _magic_
hood her grandmother, the local good witch gave her, that she uses to
turn the tables on the wolf. I think that makes it Star Trek.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 06:21:31 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <38EDE0DA.512268AD@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Alison wrote:
> But in fact 'capitalism' is one of those words which was invented
> by a particular person and defined in a particular book (like 'relativity'
> or 'Islam') so we do know exactly what it means, in any country. It means an
> economic system where the dominant group generate income from capital
> ('ownership of the means of production') rather than from working. The
> person who defined it was, of course, an atheist though admittedly from a
> Jewish cultural background.
Yes, we can know who invented a word and what he meant
by it. But inventing a word doesn't give you ownership of it or
prevent its meaning from changing; just ask Shakespeare. Please
recall that I was responding to your comments about words
changing meanings, and cultural differences. As much as I do
dislike the fact, words change meanings (remember when gay
meant happy and carefree?), and mean different things in different
cultures (what you call a biscuit, I call a cookie; and I've no idea
what you'd call my biscuits), and dictionaries *follow* usage. It's
the Humpty Dumpty syndrome. (May it fall.)
> I think that people are confusing 'capitalism' with 'private property',
> which clearly existed well before capitalism - for example in the Roman
> empire, or in feudal Europe. And of course predates Christianity.
But what I think is that we *might* have a case of culturally
divergent definitions. If it were just me I'd suspect I'd not been
paying attention in class; but my Encyclopedia Brittanica is
*quite* clear about capitalism referring to private vs. state
ownership of assets. I did go and check before replying to
you; I may be dumb but I'm not stupid (ObB7).
> Avon clearly did believe in private property, after a fashion, and so did
> Blake ('my computer', 'my ship'). However, ironically, I think they owned
> very little, not in the sense that we own things anyway. They lived in a
> communal space, ate communal food (I guess - unless there was a pay as you
> go cafeteria on the Liberator), wore clothes taken from a communal room etc.
> Didn't seem to bother them either did it? Though I wonder what happened to
> the gambling winnings?
I'd guess three factors: first off, it's probably similar to what they're
used to. Personal possessions tend to individualize people, and I suspect
the Federation discourages them, in fact encourages any private funds
that may exist outside of the elite to be spent in other ways. Secondly,
we've only seen Cally's cabin, apart from fairly tight shots; Cally,
Blake, and Avon are all iNtuitives, and would tend to accumulate mostly
information (books, music, etc.) which doesn't seem necessary with Zen
and Orac around. Third, I doubt that acquiring property ranks at all highly
compared to staying out of Federation traps. They've probably not thought
about it much, or had a chance to go shopping (and would Blake let them
have any money?) I do suspect that unless Blake found out about the
gambling winnings, Avon hid them quite thoroughly and they were
destroyed with Liberator.
Cheers,
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 14:32:47 -0700
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Desperately seeking Blake (was Avon seeking)
Message-ID: <38EBB0FF.283FA840@netzero.net>
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Ann B wrote:
>VILA: They're going to check out that rumor too, don't forget.
>AVON: That Blake was here? It's getting to be a fairly common rumor. We
>could spend the rest of our lives chasing down the ones we've picked up so
>far.
>CALLY: Still, now we're here.
>AVON: [in a very tired, flat voice] Oh, yes, now we're here.
I took this exchange to be a shorthand synopsis of all the (unfilmed)
time that had passed since Second Season ended at Star One. (The series'
progression only makes sense if the viewer pretends that we have not
seen all the crew's adventures- only select episodes). It really helps
deal with plot holes.
It sounds to me as though the crew had followed up a great many rumors
of Blake's presence already. They are by now discouraged at their
repeated failures to find Blake. And Avon's flat tone conveys his
expectation that they will be disappointed once again. Yet, he feels
compelled to look, anyway. Now that *is* an obsession, if one feels
obliged to perform a task one fully expects will result in failure.
And finally, after dozens of failures, the crew decides the mouse is
going to get killed nosing about after the cheese, so they let it slide.
Besides, by now, Tarrant has distracted them with schemes of piracy!
Which leads into:
Marian wrote:
>I think the real tragedy for Avon was that once he's rid of Blake, he gets
>saddled with Tarrant, someone who's got even less regard for his safety than
>Blake had. :-)
ho ho. So much for Avon's planned vacation cruise.
Andrew I wrote:
>I think there are at least three of us. But I'm going by the name of Gnog
>now, so please feel free to have your capital back.
>Gnog
<chortle> Gnog, I simply *must* know the story behind this pseudonym.
It sounds like -- you're not, by any chance, a ... HOMMICK!!!???
PatPat
--
http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707
_____________________________________________
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Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:20:10 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000407171817.29754A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 7 Apr 2000 mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
> into law, and I prefer laws to stay out of morality except insofar as
> is necessary to protect citizens from being violated by others.
So does everybody. Determining what constitutes a violation, and what laws
are necessary to protect against it, is where the messy stuff starts.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:07:57 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Bye
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0407090757-339Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Kathryn's back in Australia and I'm sans typist.
The list is getting too interesting for me to be able to resist joining in, so
contrariwise, I need to remove myself from temptation for a while until I've
licked this accursed shoulder pain.
Ciao,
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 14:49:08 EDT
From: JEB31538@cs.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith
Message-ID: <11.2703519.261f87a4@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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> >Andy Hopkinson wrote:
>
> >It will have interviews, reviews, location visits, in-depth character
> >analysis and perhaps *some* fiction. We've put a lot of work into it, but
> >if > >it is to continue then it will need the support of all B7 fans out
there.
I'll certainly buy a copy of Zenith whenever it's available. I would guess
most of the people on the two main lists would want to buy copies since
getting new B7 material these days is so very hard to do.
Depending on the timing of Zenith, I will probably, also, advertize
it/review it in the two apas I'm a member of--Rallying Call and On the Wing--
and mention it on the other new B7 onelist I'm in--DownandSafe. (RC and DAS
are Blake oriented. OTW is Tarrant oriented.)
Joyce Bowen (It's my real name.) JEB31538@cs.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 20:26:22 +0100
From: Nicola Collie <nicola@dunedinite.free-online.co.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-Id: <l03130301b513e63142f3@[212.159.69.49]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Una muttered something about:
><mutter, mutter> like DS9 it's dead good 'In the Pale Moonlight' top episode
>worthy of B7 in my opinion not that anyone listens to me life don't talk to
>me about life...
[patpatpat] therethere Una I been listening ItPM is ace, really it is. You
wouldn't have pushed it, um, encouraged me to watch it, otherwise, now,
would ya?
Could you pick up that piece of paper, please?
Nicola
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 15:55:46 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <d8.29be9e1.261f9742@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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I agree wholeheartedly with Mistral's comments on how society has gone from
>give/share=good, to give/share=should, to notgive/notshare=bad, to you must
>give/share and we will make you. Which means that society/government is
>violating take=bad.
Bravo. Now how do we get society to admit it is sinning?
and so that isn't purely a me too mail, some Avon comments
I have wondered how much of Avon's willingness to help when it's his idea
(or he's been asked nicely) as Mistral writes comes from his MBTI typing, or
perhaps I'm just over-identifying with the snarly one. Any comments from
other INTs (no prejudice between J and P) welcome.
Another avenue of thought is to examine his relationship with authority.
Obviously the Federation as a model of authority is enough to give him fits.
Telling or ordering Avon to do anything is nearly the surest method of
ensuring he doesn't do it.
I wonder about his relationship with his parents, particularly his father.
I suppose I might be venturing into Freudian territory, but that much angst
and that much need to separate himself from Blake may indicate some unsolved
family issues, perhaps feeling a little too much in the shadow of a strong
male for instance.
Trish
Sometimes I think that if there is an afterlife, Terry Nation is laughing
hysterically.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:10:18 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Life imitating art
Message-ID: <86.212c048.261f9aaa@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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This is actually funny in light of the recent Horizon debate.
I work for Bell Atlantic, and as some of you know, we are merging with GTE to
ensure that we are a monstrously large information and telecommunications
company, and can participate in the future oligopoly that will dominate this
industry.
Neither name is appropriate for the new company, and for some reason I'd been
dreading that they'd call the new company Horizon. (Just an odd thought that
led to a constant twitch these past few weeks.)
The new name was announced this week: Verizen, deliberately named to elicit
thoughts of Horizon and Veritas. (shrill laughter, approaching hysteria)
All of the classically trained managers with whom I work immediately said
Horizon + Truth? In another display of different understandings of the same
word, the brains that came up with this new name are insisting that Veritas
means reliability. It's all in the translation.
I think the next merger may lead to the company being named The Federation.
Trish
upping her doses of psychotropics
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:19:57 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Anna's Name: Excessive Optimism
Message-ID: <005401bfa0ce$a9a78b20$b16a4e0c@dshilling>
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It sounds like the consensus is that Avon embarked on a life of crime so
that he could afford to keep Anna in the style she was accustomed to--or
that they were both participants in a larger criminal conspiracy--and that
it was just his bloody bad luck that his girlfriend happened to be the top
Federation spy.
No, it's got to be worse than that. It must have been just another day at
the office for Bartholomew. The way I figure it, the Federation didn't have
the budget for a proper security audit. They consulted the list of people
whom some powerful person was mad at for some reason, easily located Avon
(who had probably managed to annoy more powerful people than anyone else on
the list), and assigned Anna to him.
His reverence for marriage vows was no doubt on a par with his profound
respect for Federation brass. Then all she'd have to do would be to tell him
that it was hopeless to try to hack the banking system...and go around
closing up the loopholes as he found them.
Too bad about the guy selling the exit visas (but the Federation had plenty
more where he came from).
Avon finally managed to defeat Blake in one competition he would have
preferred not to enter: Person Made to Look Like Biggest Prat in Universe by
Federation Sense of Humor. Getting Blake to blow up a non-existent Central
Control was a pretty good practical joke, but this one is better.
-(Y)
Tonight: season finale THE SOPRONOS. Thanks to professional help, mobbed-up
bunch of rocks are able to resolve their differences and make you think that
they've whacked whoever you wanted to get rid of.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 10:12:55 -0700
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Blakes7 Action Figures
Message-ID: <38EE1717.CB29E5E8@netzero.net>
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Helen wrote:
>Say, is anyone collecting the info on the 'dolls', the legal and
>marketing memos, etc?
Not me. Trish? You started this marvelous game by introducing the line.
Helen, as this site is your idea, have at it!
>It seems like with editing it would make a good addition to someone's
>website.
Great idea.
Alas, as always, I take a day off from my 'full time job' of reading the
lyst to go work at my 'part time job' and return to find myself 5
digests and 100 posts behind *sigh*
And to learn that SCUMM's designer team has become seduced by The
Victorian Classics and that its legal counsel has gone over to The Dark
Side.
<mutter grumble - *someones'* gonna suffer for this...>
Anna! Get me Shrinker on the phone - now!
PatPat
CEO, SCUMM, Inc.
--
http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707
_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:03:49 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blakes7 Action Figures
Message-ID: <34.389df04.261fa735@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Catch up Pat. Julia is collecting all of this wonderful nonsense for a zine.
If Helen wants to post it on-line, that's great too.
And what's this stuff about the Legal team going over to the Dark Side? I
thought that's where they came from!
Oh dear, it just came to me. What if Travis is actually a Sith Lord and that
arm is just a built-in light saber? What a wonderful cross-marketing idea
that could be, if George would ever agree.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:43:45 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake (as longish as usual)
Message-ID: <001101bfa07e$2c0c72c0$2346063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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From: Sally Manton
Sally,
It seems a bit rude to post a short reply to such a detailed post. But,
Yep, thats a well argued case, can't disagree with that.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:43:28 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Avon's search?
Message-ID: <001001bfa07e$2b4c3000$2346063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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Helen Krummenacker
>Why didn't they look for Jenna?
I always assumed that for some reason (perhaps belonging on the other list),
they thought that Jenna would stay close to Blake. Thus find Blake and you
find Jenna.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:41:11 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, <carnell7@aol.com>
Subject: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Message-ID: <000201bfa07d$fe272e40$2346063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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Don't know if anybody is interested in this, but apparently, whilst I was
out of the country, this morning our local radio station announced a Blakes
7 revival, to be lead by two TV movies staring Paul Darrow.
Didn't actually catch the broadcast myself. Just thought I'd share.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:19:25 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "Lysator" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Anna's attempted coup
Message-ID: <000001bfa07d$fc38cbc0$2346063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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From: Murray Smith <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
>
>You're forgetting that Major Grenlee raised the alarm before he died,
>ensuring that Servalan was soon rescued by loyal troops.
>
Murray,
Thanks for reminding me what his name was. It was that, and Avon showing up
that spoiled Sula's plan, otherwise there are numerous ways they could have
exploited their advantage, some of which have already been mentioned.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:58:06 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Drugging of population on Earth
Message-ID: <30.3770ea1.261fd00e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Gnog wrote:
From what I recall, we are lead by the hand to believe that Blake was
drugged, and that more than one person was drugged. But we have NO evidence
for it being an entire population or an entire social class type operation.
The evidence that a few people are drugged can't really be extrapolated to
the whole population. Equally, evidence that an equally small group (the
justice department) are not drugged cannot be extrapolated either, after all
somebody has to administer the drugs.
Blake was told to abstain from food or water for 36 hours. The presence of
drugs in the water tends to indicate a more universal drugging unless they
are all drinking bottled water which in any case is probably produced by a
Federation controlled plant.
It's also a lot more difficult to drug only the foods of specific
individuals. How would that be accomplished? Enter the home every few days
and spike his or her oatmeal?
Trish
(haven't come up with a good pseudonym, am open to suggestions :) )
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:30:29 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities)
Message-ID: <000101bfa07d$fd117880$2346063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: mistral@ptinet.net
>Um. Well, if you want, we could always argue about what Avon
>would have liked to do if he'd been given the choice :)
>
>I'm thinking, in an environment he felt safe in, he'd have liked to
>do pure research. He loves to tinker, explore, invent. Research
>would have given him enjoyment in his work, a good chance at
>putting his name on something, and an outside chance at getting
>rich (which I think would have diminished in importance if he
>felt in control of his own life.)
If we are talking ideal, put more emphasis on the "putting HIS name on
something" and I agree with you there.
Avon would love today's "dot com" culture.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:49:47 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Message-ID: <000301bfa07d$fedfcfe0$2346063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gnog writes:
>> Could you remind me of the evidence for mass drugging of Delta's. I seem
to
>> have forgotten it.
Nina.
>Strictly speaking, there's no canonical evidence per se. However, they
*are*
>clearly drugging a least a portion of the population in TWB, but the
Justice
>Dept. people seem clear headed enough.
Julia
>Large portions of _The Way Back_ suggest that it is the practice on
>Earth at the start of the series.
I spy with my little eye a big whopping contradiction here.
From what I recall, we are lead by the hand to believe that Blake was
drugged, and that more than one person was drugged. But we have NO evidence
for it being an entire population or an entire social class type operation.
The evidence that a few people are drugged can't really be extrapolated to
the whole population. Equally, evidence that an equally small group (the
justice department) are not drugged cannot be extrapolated either, after all
somebody has to administer the drugs.
I could of course (as usual) by totally incorrect.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:11:29 GMT
From: "Andy Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Message-ID: <20000408001129.5320.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Don't know if anybody is interested in this, but apparently, whilst I was
>out of the country, this morning our local radio station announced a Blakes
>7 revival, to be lead by two TV movies staring Paul Darrow.
>
>Didn't actually catch the broadcast myself. Just thought I'd share.
>
>Andrew
apparently my local (Southwest) radio station ran a similar story (I missed
it myself) I've also been told that the revival story was featured in two
tabloid papers yesterday, although these were wildly inaccurate. "Blake as
played by Paul Darrow!" For instance.
Andy.
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 20:36:04 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Message-ID: <1a.1d87e2b.261fd8f4@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/7/00 7:41:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com writes:
<< Don't know if anybody is interested in this, but apparently, whilst I was
out of the country, this morning our local radio station announced a Blakes
7 revival, to be lead by two TV movies staring Paul Darrow.>>
Interesting choice of typo.
Leah
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:38:23 +0100
From: "Jakx" <Jakx@takerkane.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Message-ID: <00bd01bfa0f2$c0784320$8343883e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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It had a small article in saturday`s Sun newspaper, saying that two movies
were being made based on the Tv series Blakes 7.
The article was called "Blakes 7 ride again"
and it says, quote:
"Hit 1970s sci-fi series Blakes 7 is returning in two blockbuster TV movies.
Both will star Paul darrow, 59, who played Avon - one of the seven misfit
freedom fughters in revolt against the Federation.
The show was famed for wobbly sets and dodgy special effects. Rebel Leader
Balke was played by Gareth Thomas, 56
The films are thought to have been inspired by repeats on UK Gold. The BBC
may soon bring back Dr Who."
there you go. no mention of the BBC repeats. And of course the press STILL
do not take it seriously as they STILL insist on mentioning the wobbly sets
and poor special effects.
Jakx
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>; <carnell7@aol.com>
Sent: 07 April 2000 10:41
Subject: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
> Don't know if anybody is interested in this, but apparently, whilst I was
> out of the country, this morning our local radio station announced a
Blakes
> 7 revival, to be lead by two TV movies staring Paul Darrow.
>
> Didn't actually catch the broadcast myself. Just thought I'd share.
>
> Andrew
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:42:13 +0100
From: "Jakx" <Jakx@takerkane.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film. (ooops)
Message-ID: <00c801bfa0f3$49494960$8343883e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I meant to say FRIDAYS Sun, not saturdays, (today is saturday, and i read it
today!! but the paper was fridays!!)
sorry!
Jakx
----- Original Message -----
From: Jakx <Jakx@takerkane.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: 08 April 2000 01:38
Subject: Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
> It had a small article in saturday`s Sun newspaper, saying that two
movies
> were being made based on the Tv series Blakes 7.
>
> The article was called "Blakes 7 ride again"
> and it says, quote:
> "Hit 1970s sci-fi series Blakes 7 is returning in two blockbuster TV
movies.
> Both will star Paul darrow, 59, who played Avon - one of the seven misfit
> freedom fughters in revolt against the Federation.
>
> The show was famed for wobbly sets and dodgy special effects. Rebel
Leader
> Balke was played by Gareth Thomas, 56
>
> The films are thought to have been inspired by repeats on UK Gold. The BBC
> may soon bring back Dr Who."
>
> there you go. no mention of the BBC repeats. And of course the press STILL
> do not take it seriously as they STILL insist on mentioning the wobbly
sets
> and poor special effects.
>
> Jakx
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>; <carnell7@aol.com>
> Sent: 07 April 2000 10:41
> Subject: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
>
>
> > Don't know if anybody is interested in this, but apparently, whilst I
was
> > out of the country, this morning our local radio station announced a
> Blakes
> > 7 revival, to be lead by two TV movies staring Paul Darrow.
> >
> > Didn't actually catch the broadcast myself. Just thought I'd share.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:34:01 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000407203214.00ba8560@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Jakx wrote:
>they STILL insist on mentioning the wobbly sets and poor special effects.
Well, so do we...
I wonder whether this means they've managed to get funding for these
proposed TV movies. I was *really* hoping that entire project would just
sort of fade away quietly, but apparently they're persevering with it.
- Lisa
--
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
From Eroica With Love: http://eroica.simplenet.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 23:09:43 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Local Radio Announces B7 Film.
Message-ID: <9b.36b75a1.261ffcf7@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Two TV movies? Well, I suppose those of us in the States will have to plan
vacations in the UK when they are (if they ever are actually made) broadcast.
Or wait another twenty years in the hope that a PBS station will show one.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:22:11 -0700
From: Susie Wright <piscescat@home.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Raiker
Message-ID: <38EEA5E2.4C691CC2@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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"Weeelll, we didn't actually SEE Raiker die. ... Now imagine his dilemma
when he has two of the crew on board during
Molloch. He could take the ransom for Vila and Tarrant, or he could stay
out of sight until Avon shows up as well..."
--Andrew
I'm sure he'd wait for Avon. Sorry to ask, but what is HHGTTG stuff?
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:22:01 -0700
From: Susie Wright <piscescat@home.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:Bercol & Rontane
Message-ID: <38EEA5D9.6D5480C4@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And she added: >"Bercol and Rontane" almost sounds like a comedy team.
Your career would definitely be blighted if Rontane found out you'd said
that. He's one of the most adorably slimy, scheming politicos I've ever
seen. --Harriet
You made me laugh, so I'm not afraid. I really should dig up those
episodes and refresh my memory. Thinking of Dana's Shakespeare
reference, I'm now considering Bercol & Rontane to rival Rosencrantz &
Guildenstern.
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 22:21:17 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon's Job
Message-ID: <20000407.222122.-88111.2.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Not that he ever would have done this in the Federation but, since I was
recently rereading Bujold's "Brothers in Arms" where one of the
characters is pretty much based on Avon (although it is the main
character, who is sort of what Vila would be if he were a hyper active
hero with an odd sense of honor determined to win at all costs, who gets
to have all the fun), I'll mention what he did.
Coming from a planet which had been taken over by the milder Federation
equivalent and having a somewhat stronger sense of serving his people
than Avon did (based on doesn't mean _is_), this guy (who already had a
PhD) goes to military school and gets on the fast track to high
officerdom, planning to put in his 20 years and then retire with the
right connections to move up the political side on his homeworld.
Planetary govenor being at the top of the wish list, but he'll settle for
important member of governor's staff.
While properly subordinate, he has a dry sense of humor and, in the words
of his immediate superior, "in any given conversation he will always come
away knowing more of you than you of him." Of course, Avon could deal
with this since it is all a means to an end.
OTOH, he somehow finds himself as the top ranking security officer over
his homeworld and engaged to the daughter of one of the most important
military officers on either planet instead. But, hey, you adjust to your
circumstances.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:29:10 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon's Father
Message-ID: <20000407.222122.-88111.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
If I were to make wild guesses, I'd say Avon had some sort of love-hate
relationship with his father. My idea is that his father was a
personality cross between Avon and Blake (a mostly Avon like personality
with Blake's drive, ideals, and a bit less cynicism). On the one hand, I
see him as having been almost like God to his young son. OTOH, I see him
as being killed or dying because of his ideals while Avon was still young
(like I said, wild guesses. I wouldn't want to try and make canon support
it).
So, you have all this heavy idealization of the father, but you also have
him resenting his father for 'abandoning' him through death and leaving
him to fight for survival on his own (side issue: if I were to guess
Avon's class background, I'd say he's an alpha - but I'd also say he
spent a lot of his younger years fighting for it. In the context of this
wild guess, I'd say he lost a _secure_ hold on his alpha rating when his
father died and had a few people who would have been glad to see him lose
it entirely). He also develops an attitude about hero types in general
(without admitting the connection he makes between them and his father).
They're either fools or they use it as a cover for manipulating people
who mean nothing to them.
Then, along comes Blake, who's for real (more or less, but that's another
debate). Part of Avon responds to this - and he feels all the more
threatened because of it. Another part of him hates Blake's guts for
what he is just on principle.
The only canon I've got to support this (other than Avon's obvious
attitude) is his response to Dayna's father. Here's a Blake-like man who
survived to protect his family. He also deals more positively with Avon,
helping and protecting him without making all the demands Blake does for
Avon to be like him. Avon _likes_ this guy without being threatened by
him.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:48:22 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Anna again
Message-ID: <20000407.222122.-88111.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I just don't see Avon casually entering into a relationship with a
married woman. Yes, I'm prudish, but I think there are some legitimate
character points here. For one thing, I think Grant would have thrown it
in his face if he saw Avon as having broken up Anna's marriage with a man
who had the position and influence to protect her before (as Grant saw
it) throwing her to the wolves to save his own skin. Also, I think Grant
would have thrown any character flaws he saw Avon as having in his face.
Besides, the script was trying to suggest Grant was actually a rejected
suitor, so as to make Avon's comment about Grant being her brother
something of a surprise to viewers (totally ruined by the write up in the
paper in my neighborhood [B7: Avon meets the brother of his dead lover
(or something like that)]. Total giveaway). Comments about Avon being a
homewrecker would have been fine.
Then, there's Avon. Avon hates to admit it, but he _is_ big on loyalty.
A married woman trolling the waters would have limited appeal to him.
Besides, it should have added shades to their relationship that never
seemed to be there. He never suggests feeling guilty that she stayed
with him _when she had alternatives_. He feels guilt believing she
endured torture instead of betraying him, especially when he failed to
get her out - but he doesn't suggest much guilt for getting her into
danger. He and Anna were going to be so rich nothing could touch them -
not so rich she'd be as safe with him (or safer) as she'd been with her
last husband.
Plus, there's a certain streak of possessiveness in Avon. I really can't
see him being happy playing second fiddle. Consider his attitude towards
the Liberator. If he lives on a ship, he wants it to be _his_ ship. If,
on the other hand, Zen had always said Liberator was Blake's ship, he
probably would have moved on (perhaps taking over one of those little,
nonFederation planets Blake couldn't be bothered with).
Then, there's Anna. Although she's putting on part of an act when she
runs into Avon, we can't tell how much it reflects Anna as he knew her.
She's acting reflexively and may be falling into an accustomed routine
without it being in keeping with her usual behavior around Avon. Or not.
However, assuming what she _said_ reflected whatever she'd told Avon (and
a good double agent should be able to keep her stories straight), she
_went back_ to her husband, implying Avon thought she had _left_ him.
That she feels it necessary to assure Avon she _only_ loved him after
saying she'd gone to her husband again suggests a formal breakup and that
Avon would have some reason to take it badly if she was with her husband
- because he thought that was over and that he was the one and only in
her life (for what it's worth, the little Anna says suggests the kind of
marriage she'd told Avon she had [assuming accuracy]. Although what we
see of Anna and Chesku implies he married her from love, which has not
entirely died on his part. He still hopes for her support and good
opinion, but receives cutting remarks and put downs, which he has come to
expect [speaking of things Anna and Avon have in common]. He _didn't_
believe she would kill him. Anna was clearly the dominant personality and
the one with the power, even if most of that power [previous to
assasination] had an emotional base. OTOH, what she _says_ about going
back to her husband for protection because she was afraid [and the
somewhat shamed way she says he wanted her] suggest she'd told Avon a
story about an unhappy marriage [at a guess, powerful counselor marries
pretty but poor and unconnected wife. Expects her to do as told, etc.
Although initially swept off her feet, she eventually realizes how
loveless her life is, that she's little more than a slave, etc. - but
maybe she was getting her lines mixed up and this was the story she fed
the rebels]).
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 06:41:58 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Anna's attempted coup
Message-ID: <20000408134158.50243.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Murray wrote:
<Anna and her followers were in no danger of overthrowing the Federation.
While they managed to capture Servalan, does anyone honestly believe that
the military would obey orders from a President and Supreme Commander they
knew to be a prisoner?>
I agree. From the script, in Anna's own words: "Alive, Servalan can order
her forces to disarm. Alive, Servalan can announce that she's standing down
in favor of the People's Council, which you and the others will lead. Alive,
Servalan can hand over power."
Whether or not the outside world knew she was saying it freely or under
duress, I'm convinced that the result would have been the same. Servalan (or
Sula in her name) would have made said orders and announcements - and the
entrenched military/civilian powers-that-be (that just fought and crushed
the same sort of people they were now being told to lie down and surrender
to) would have simply said "Get real" (in proper militarese, of course.)
And the rebels don't seem to have had any idea how to *enforce* the orders
from an isolated President (in her country house, for goodness sake!!) in
the (very real - IMO inevitable) event of such a refusal.
Anna's plot had worked flawlessly up to this precise point, but IMHO was
about to fall flat on its ill-conceived and hopelessly naive face. All
Avon's intervention did was ensure that *Servalan* survived the inevitable
crushing.
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 06:46:49 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:Avon's search?
Message-ID: <20000408134649.1774.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
<Why didn't they look for Jenna?>
Simply 'cause no one cared enough to do so IMHO. They're rather an 'out of
sight out of mind' lot, and Jenna's links with both Cally and Vila are
weaker than with they were with Blake and Gan (and they're weaker still with
Avon).
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--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #103
**************************************