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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 105
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Re: [B7L] Zenith, goats, Rand, fraud, etc.
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
Re: [B7L] Rand, BBC announcements, etc.
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Motivations Justifications and Science.
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
Re: [B7L] Rand, BBC announcements, etc.
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
[B7L] new zine - Tales from Space City 2
Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Equus
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
[B7L] OT: Zines on ebay..
Re: Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities)
Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Just another filk
[B7L] The Greeks
Re: [B7L] The Greeks
Re: [B7L] The Greeks
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Re: First Impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
[B7L] Re: Motivations Justifications and Science.
Re: [B7L] Re: Motivations Justifications and Science.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 16:46:25 +0100
From: "David A McIntee" <Master@allisurvey.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>,
"lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: "Freedom City" <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Message-Id: <E12eJu8-0003Q9-00.2000-04-09-16-45-41@cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
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> From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
> Subject: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
> Date: 09 April 2000 09:06
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_705000/705922.stm
>
I'm sure it'd be very exciting - if the link or any variation thereof
worked...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 17:17:50 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Message-ID: <005701bfa23f$60673880$0d01a8c0@codex>
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David A McIntee wrote:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_705000/705922.stm
> >
>
> I'm sure it'd be very exciting - if the link or any variation thereof
> worked...
Works at this end, and people on Freedom City have managed to access it, so
perhaps a problem at your end, David? You can access it from the
entertainment section front page on the BBC news website where,
incidentally, there's a nice little graphic.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 17:15:37 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith, goats, Rand, fraud, etc.
Message-ID: <00a301bfa240$49492400$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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Sarah said -
>IMO the appeal of this stuff to Americans,
>especially young ones, has much to do with the fact that intellect is a
>downright disadvantage in many sectors of the secondary school system--
>hence the allure of books that tell you that people like yourself ought to
>be running everything.
Yes, I see what you mean. 'One day I'll be a oak-thewed genius, and then
you'll be sorry'.
>John Galt, is being tortured by the baddies with some sort of
electric-shock
>machine... when the machine breaks down, and the villains (being
technically
>incompetent, as he is not) have no idea what to do, =he tells them how to
>fix it=.
Somehow not the behaviour I would associate with a towering intellect.
>A real fanfic Avon moment, it is.
In fact it would be quite a good touchstone for the difference between
fanfic Avon and canonical Avon.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 16:58:56 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
Message-ID: <00a201bfa240$48136320$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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Ariane said -
>"The Rules of Luton"... features super-beings who were actually still
>photographs of various conifers
God I hope that's true, because it's extremely funny.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 12:26:03 EDT
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Message-ID: <35.3927b41.2622091b@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 04/09/2000 10:46:37 AM Central Daylight Time,
Master@allisurvey.freeserve.co.uk writes:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_705000/705922.stm
> >
>
> I'm sure it'd be very exciting - if the link or any variation thereof
> worked...
It worked fine when I tried it. Maybe it was overloaded or temporarily down?
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 00:45:58 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <000601bfa24a$42c43de0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Andrew Otewalt wrote:
> Mistral writes:
>> I've often suspected that most of the arguments in the world are caused
by
>> people misunderstanding each other's terminology.
>
> question: would this be cured by all of us speaking esperanto ?
Jes! Tio estus bonega!
Neil
"Mi ne estas viro, mi estas libera numero."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 18:56:36 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
Message-ID: <003401bfa24d$214f7460$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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> I've seen the premise as Star Trek TOS's "Arena" and Space:1999's "The
Rules
> of Luton"
<Lorraine Chase> Yer wot? </Lorraine Chase>
Still, a lot snappier than "The Rules of Carshalton Beeches"
Neil
"I am not a man, I am a free number."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:43:42 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rand, BBC announcements, etc.
Message-ID: <57.41859d4.26221b4e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Sarah wrote
There's one in =Atlas Shrugged= that I still remember, in which Our Hero,
John Galt, is being tortured by the baddies with some sort of electric-shock
machine. Not only does Galt show not the slightest sign of breaking, but
when the machine breaks down, and the villains (being technically
incompetent, as he is not) have no idea what to do, =he tells them how to
fix it=. A real fanfic Avon moment, it is.
Funny, I liked the novel but thought that whole thread was the least credible
of the entire book. Suddenly these business men and women turns into heroic
rescuers armed with guns and able to rescue their friend from the baddie and
no one dropped a gun or screwed up.
At least our friends on B7 screwed up regularly in context with the fact that
they weren't pros.
Re: the BBC web announcement. What is that crap about Darrow being in his
mid-50's? PD is a lovely man to look at and listen to (I'm sure he's a
lovely person as well, but never having made his acquaintance...) but he does
turn 60 this year (not that there's anything wrong with that). And they
accuse women of being vain.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:45:10 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <74.298a8d4.26221ba6@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Neil wrote:
Jes! Tio estus bonega!
Neil
"Mi ne estas viro, mi estas libera numero."
If you can do that in Italian, I might even revise my thinking on socialism
so we can start planning the wedding.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 09:12:13 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Motivations Justifications and Science.
Message-ID: <002f01bfa1fb$50e34c80$e19b01d5@leanet>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kai V Karmanheimo <
>Hello
>
>The most obvious reason (though of course not the most interesting
>one) why the crew searched for Blake but not Jenna is that Blake had his
>name in the show's title, Jenna didn't.
Kai, you are quite clearly correct.
And the reason that some of the flight times/speeds/distances don't always
tie up is that the numerous script writers didn't bother to work out any
physics. We could answer all questions that way. Avon was good with handguns
in Orac, because the script writer wanted him to be. Blake never killed
Travis not because of some deep seated emotional reason, but because the
producer didn't want to recruit a new baddie (so much so that in series 3 &
4 Servalan has to leave base and become the action baddie). Gan died, not as
an inevitable consequence of Blakes recluses pursuit of his selfish goals,
but to boost ratings. Etc etc.
Personally I prefer to read between the lines and invent things that may
never have occurred to the actors / writers / producers, but never - the -
less actually manage to "explain" those niggling little things that pop up
from time to time.
What do other people think of the balance between these two views. At what
point do we stop suspending our disbelief and accept that the whole thing is
scripted, and the script writer is human, with a tight deadline.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 09:40:23 +0100
From: "Fah Adiet" <fah@adiet.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
Message-ID: <009301bfa1ff$631adae0$e19b01d5@leanet>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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>======
>
>AVON: If any of our control systems are damaged by the impact, we
> will be helpless.
>BLAKE: We're not exactly in a commanding position now.
>JENNA: Activating!
>BLAKE: Have you got any better ideas? [Violent impact. As Blake and
> Avon reel back, Avon clutches Blake protectively]
>AVON: As a matter of fact, no I haven't.
>BLAKE: Does that mean you agree?
>AVON: Do I have a choice?
>BLAKE: Yes.
>AVON: Then I agree. [Lets go of Blake]
>
>======
Hi,
Hope I'm doing this right.
The above quote from Ariana's post is one of my favourites. So full of
hidden meaning.
Fah.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:05:34 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rand, BBC announcements, etc.
Message-ID: <ANUnKdBOKO84EwYa@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <57.41859d4.26221b4e@aol.com>, Prmolloy@aol.com writes
>Re: the BBC web announcement. What is that crap about Darrow being in his
>mid-50's? PD is a lovely man to look at and listen to (I'm sure he's a
>lovely person as well, but never having made his acquaintance...) but he does
>turn 60 this year (not that there's anything wrong with that). And they
>accuse women of being vain.
Doubt it was anything to do with vanity on Paul Darrow's part - he's
stated his birth year as 1941 for a very long time. More likely
someone's confusing him with Gareth (who is a very cuddly 56).
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:50:58 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <vOvc67Ai8N84Ewsn@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20000407125531.13016.qmail@hotmail.com>, Mat Shayde
<dorian17@hotmail.com> writes
>Not necessarily - that presumes that Sara told her contacts that she was
>stealing the neutrotope from a bunch of desperate people. Maybe the people who
>were coming to buy it were equally desperate and didn't ask too many questions
>about where she was getting it from.
Given that Sara expected her new friends to kill the crew of the Ortega
(remember that they lure her out by staging a firefight), I think we can
assume that *Sara* at least thought that they were the type to shoot
anyone who got in their way.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 22:01:10 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] new zine - Tales from Space City 2
Message-ID: <FNCmqYCW+O84EwYa@jajones.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Volume 2 of _Tales from Space City_ is now available. Prices in sterling
when ordered directly from me are as follows:
UK 5.20, Europe 6.20, Zone 1 (eg USA) 7.30/US$13,
Zone 2 (eg Australia) 7.50
All prices postage paid; in pounds sterling other than the price quoted
for US$. I can take UK currency, sterling cheques drawn on a UK bank, or
US dollars IN CASH ONLY. (I can take US$ for all postal zones, should
there be Europeans or Antipodeans with a supply of US dollar bills -
email me for prices to areas other than zone 1.) I will also probably be
able to take Dutch currency later this year - details when I have them.
The zine will also be available from Judith Proctor at agented prices,
which now includes availability by credit card or debit card for a small
surcharge. The zine should be listed on the website by now. It's also
available from Linda Knights, who agents Judith's zines in the US, but
note that it will normally be cheaper ordered direct from Judith, as are
most of the British zines that they both agent for. Note that when my
zines are sold from Judith's table at cons, they will probably be at the
agented price - it's usually the simplest way to cover my share of the
table hire.
This is a mixed gen, het and slash zine, and will not be sold to minors.
The bad news: UK postage rates are going up later this month, and I
can't absorb the full cost. New prices for my other zines for orders I
receive after 14 April:
Tales from Space City Volume 1
UK £10.20; Europe £11.50; Zone 1 (eg US) £13.45 or US$23 cash; Zone 2
(eg Aus/NZ) £13.85
Endless Farce
UK £6.00; Europe £6.80; Zone 1 (eg US) £7.75 or US$14 cash; Zone 2 (eg
Aus/NZ) £7.90
Vem Quest (Prices unchanged, but given for reference)
UK £2.60; Europe £3.10; Zone 1 (eg US) £3.70 or US$7 cash; Zone 2 (eg
Aus/NZ) £3.80
(Vem Quest is usually cheaper at cons, simply because I print it to
order and am unlikely to lug copies about unless it has been pre-ordered
anyway.)
Endless Farce and the first volume of Tales are also agented by Judith
and Linda.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:03:03 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Beeb say it so it must be true...
Message-ID: <Od6kuSB3HO84Ew5J@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <005701bfa23f$60673880$0d01a8c0@codex>, Una McCormack <una@q-
research.connectfree.co.uk> writes
>Works at this end, and people on Freedom City have managed to access it
Works from Judith's Archie, as well. There was much bouncing up and down
last night:-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:35:43 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <2e0aOVAPuN84Ewub@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <38EDE0DA.512268AD@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes
>Cally,
>Blake, and Avon are all iNtuitives, and would tend to accumulate mostly
>information (books, music, etc.) which doesn't seem necessary with Zen
>and Orac around.
This INTx glances across the room to the teetering pile of zines on the
floor...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 22:18:40 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Equus
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0409211840-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I saw Equus twice with a pretty mixed group of fans, both regular theatre goes
and at least one who'd only ever been to the theatre a couple of times. The
reaction of both groups was the same - it was one helluva play.
Salisbury Playhouse chose to stage Equus as theatre in the round, an expensive
decision that involved completely rearranging the seating and staging areas of
the theatre. Artistically, I have to say that it was justified. The audience
were incredibly close to the action and it added enormously to the atmosphere.
The stage was abstract in the extreme. In one corner was the psychiatrist's
chair with a small table beside it. This was the only fixed point -- fitting,
as the psychiatrist is the observer of all the action and never leaves the
stage. The only other pieces of furniture were three padded benches which
performed the function of psychiatrist's couch, hospital bed, sofa, etc. and
could be rapidly rearranged to become seats in a cinema or stall dividers in a
stable. A combination of lighting and excellent acting meant that you were
never in a moment's doubt as to where a scene was taking place. This applied
even when two scenes were taking place simultaneously. For instance, the boy
(the psychiatrist's patient) might be re-living a scene currying horses, while
the psychiatrist is still present, observing, and even asking him questions as
the boy simultaneously carries on a conversation with the girl at the stables.
The timing of the actors was superb. The play had around 3.5 weeks of rehersal
and it showed. Danny Nutt as the boy, Alan Strang, and Gareth Thomas as Dysart,
the psychiatrist, were both brilliant - the intercutting between past and
present was so natural that you never questioned it or felt it to be
unrealistic. The tension between the two as they challenge one another and
Dysart fights to retain his authority is staggering. There's one scene where
the boy takes Dysart's cigarettes and Dysart simply holds out a hand to demand
them back again. The power of that demand is impossible to describe. Alan
breaks and returns the cigarettes.
I have to mention the actors playing the horses, especially Stewart C Thompson
as Nugget. The costumes were abstract, the horses' heads almost skeletal, but
the actors had studied real horses at a stable. Every toss of the head and
movement of the legs felt right. Watching Nugget backed into his stall, you had
the sense of watching a live horse even though there were only two legs. It was
simply that you couldn't see the invisible back legs.
Equus is about a 17 year old boy who has been admitted to a psychiatric hospital
after blinding six horses. As the play slowly unravels, you come to understand
the origins of his fascination with horses and the way in which he has created
his own god. We also come to understand the disillusionment of the psychiatrist
who feels the emptiness and lack of passion in his own life. In spite of the
boy's violent nightmares, Dysart envies him for having something that he can
feel passionate about. He knows that he can cure the boy, but he also knows
that something will be destroyed in the process.
The play is both mystery and revelation. The mystery is why the boy injured
animals that he loved so much. As the answers slowly unwind, you become drawn
into what is happening until a point in the second act where you get a
sudden flood of realisation. "Oh, my God, that's why he did it!" The tension
never ends though. You know that understanding a problem is only part of the
way to solving it.
And finally, we come to understand Dysart's own trap. He is caught. In a
sense, he too is Equus.
I came out of this play, both times I saw it, feeling sandbagged. So did my
friends. Gareth didn't look that much better. If it's emotionally draining to
watch, figure what it's like to perform!
I found Gareth's comments on the play to be fascinating. One in particular has
stuck in my mind. There's a nude scene in the play (non-gratituous - the plot
entirely justifies it) between Alan and a girl. As Gareth joked, "There's an
attractive naked girl on stage, and I never see her." Because Dysart is focused
on his patient. Whatever is happening, his attention is always on the boy.
I suppose the biggest compliment I can give to the entire cast is to say that my
attention was focused on the play and not on Gareth.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:01:45 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Duel"
Message-ID: <K99lWHBpGO84Ewbz@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <001c01bfa228$f20d1b40$b6e407c3@ariana>, Ariana
<ariana@ndirect.co.uk> writes
>On the Subject-That-Not-Everyone-Wants-To-Hear-About, I have to say that
>this episode has at least one scene that must have fuelled a few stories.
>I'm
>sure those who look for that sort of thing will know what I'm talking about.
>
Three, actually. In second place is the scene where most of the crew are
urging Blake on to kill Travis, and Avon just smiles and shakes his
head. Third place goes to "I have never understood...".
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:17:09 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Carol & Gordon Burgess <storm@catchnet.com.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] OT: Zines on ebay..
Message-ID: <38EA9955000022D4@base.catchnet.com.au> (added by base.catchnet.com.au)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Greetings,
I have a few zines, mostly B7 up for auction on ebay
if anyone is interested??
BLAKES 7 ZINE - ULTRA 1 Item #303543021
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=303543021
Blakes 7 Zine : Avon's Gadget Works. Item #302603292
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=302603292
Blakes 7 Zine : Roads Not Taken.. Item #302639584
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=302639584
VERY RARE ZINE - SYNDICATED IMAGES #5. M/M Item #303552435
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=303552435
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Thanks..
Carol 'Hondo'
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:37:47 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities)
Message-ID: <leFeehALwN84Ewtg@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <38EDE3E5.97024786@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes
>Um. Well, if you want, we could always argue about what Avon
>would have liked to do if he'd been given the choice :)
Actually, I agree with that as well.
I think the obsession with money wasn't for its own sake, but what it
could buy him - and that wasn't personal possessions, but personal
freedom. That includes the freedom to work on the things that interest
him.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:43:46 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Message-ID: <jOrf6uAy1N84EwNX@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <000301bfa07d$fedfcfe0$2346063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>,
Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com> writes
>From what I recall, we are lead by the hand to believe that Blake was
>drugged, and that more than one person was drugged. But we have NO evidence
>for it being an entire population or an entire social class type operation.
>The evidence that a few people are drugged can't really be extrapolated to
>the whole population. Equally, evidence that an equally small group (the
>justice department) are not drugged cannot be extrapolated either, after all
>somebody has to administer the drugs.
You carefully snipped the bit where I pointed out that once they have
the technology to use mass drugging even on worlds where they don't
control the food/water/air supply - it is used, even though it reduces
productivity.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:54:16 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <20000409225416.90231.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
>Jes! Tio estus bonega!
1) That'd be right...
2) Do you know, I've found the perfect scarf for either Neil or Una. Guess
what the pattern is? <grin>
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:07:41 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Just another filk
Message-ID: <20000409230741.35858.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ain't no refuge (Song for Zen)
(Tune: Ain't no sunshine)
Ain't no refuge now he's gone
And no means to get away
Ain't no refuge now he's gone
How could all this go so wrong
And all our plans, they're now astray
Where is our hope now that he's gone
Left to darkness and decay
Ain't no refuge now he's gone
Friend and home as we went on
And all our plans, they're now astray
And we know...etc.
Oh, now we're on our own
Ain't no refuge now he's gone
Ain't no refuge now he's gone
How'd we live to see the day
Ain't no refuge now he's gone
Friend and home as we went on
And all our plans, they're gone astray
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:32:09 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The Greeks
Message-ID: <20000409233209.5586.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
As Alan Bleasdale's adaptation of Oliver Twist finished last week, I was
looking around for something decent to watch last night. Ended up watching
the final episode of The Greeks, on SBS.
It was mostly about Socrates, and he'd been given a very distinctive voice.
But it wasn't until about halfway through that I woke up and started
thinking who the owner of the voice could be. I was fairly certain, but it
wasn't until the renowned philosopher said "Well now" that all doubt was
removed, despite the fact that he wasn't credited. (Nor was the person
providing the voice for Thucydides, who sounded familiar - a moment's
thought suggests Ian Richardson, but I'm not sure.)
Rather a good thing I was sitting on the floor when that "Well now" was
delivered...
Regards
Joanne
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:06:46 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Greeks
Message-ID: <6d.292db3d.2622ad56@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Joanne wrote:
It was mostly about Socrates, and he'd been given a very distinctive voice.
But it wasn't until about halfway through that I woke up and started
thinking who the owner of the voice could be. I was fairly certain, but it
wasn't until the renowned philosopher said "Well now" that all doubt was
removed, despite the fact that he wasn't credited.
Can't speak for Darrow, but I'd always thought Avon was more Aristotelian
than Platonic.
Just MHO of course,
I hope PBS picks up this series.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:43:39 +1000
From: "David Henderson" <David.Henderson@jcu.edu.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Greeks
Message-ID: <001601bfa2a7$57847580$6a3bdb89@lemon.jcu.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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-----Original Message-----
From: J MacQueen <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
>looking around for something decent to watch last night. Ended up watching
>the final episode of The Greeks, on SBS.
>
>It was mostly about Socrates, and he'd been given a very distinctive voice.
>I was fairly certain, but it
>wasn't until the renowned philosopher said "Well now" that all doubt was
>removed, despite the fact that he wasn't credited.
>Rather a good thing I was sitting on the floor when that "Well now" was
>delivered...
Yes, with that one line my 'almost certain' crysatlised into a 'yup thats
PD'. (Mind you, it started to soften around the edges without confirmation
in the credits, so thanks Joanne, I was hoping someone would post the
'sighting')
Socrates also had some lines in the first episode.
daveH
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 23:13:07 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <38F170F2.8E15F84@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally wrote about the treasure:
> Very little evidence either way, but Vila's words in Shadow:
> BLAKE: If you've got the money.
> VILA: But we have, we have.
>
> - and the fact that he then cheerfully dips into said money to go on a
> rather extensive spree suggests that whatever they had *was* considered
> theirs, not Blake's.
:) Well, if it had been Cally or Gan, I'd be convinced. But Vila?
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 23:36:32 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <38F1766F.E63B78D@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Iain wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Apr 2000 mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>
> > into law, and I prefer laws to stay out of morality except insofar as
> > is necessary to protect citizens from being violated by others.
>
> So does everybody.
Surely you don't believe that? There are a great many people who'd
be happy to see laws move much further into the realm of morality,
as long as it's *their* morality that's being enforced. It comes of
thinking that if you know better than someone else, you ought to
make his decisions. For example, there's really no justification for
Blake's behaviour regarding the local table manners in 'Horizon'.
And that situation is fairly peripheral even to morality; manners are
more a matter of taste.
> Determining what constitutes a violation, and what laws
> are necessary to protect against it, is where the messy stuff starts.
Sure. I'm talking about actual damage to person and property,
as opposed to more nebulous areas like enacting seatbelt laws
because persons injured in accidents by not wearing them lose
work days and impact the GNP.
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 02:49:23 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <20000410094923.13341.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
After I wrote:
<- and the fact that he then cheerfully dips into said money to go on a
rather extensive spree suggests that whatever they had *was* considered
theirs, not Blake's.>
<:) Well, if it had been Cally or Gan, I'd be convinced. But Vila?>
Yep, even Vila (you will also notice that at the start of Horizon he's all
for doing it again ;-)). He may be a gadfly, easily tempted by the moment
(he tends to make me think of the lines from My Fair Lady "oh you can walk
the straight and narrow, but with a little bit of luck you'll run amuck...")
but he's also (for anyone who hadn't noticed) not very brave. And by now
he's worked out that Fearless Leader can be rather daunting when crossed.
Yes, he's flouting Blake's direct wishes, but no, I don't think he'd have
enough courage to do it with Blake's own money.
(What I love about Shadow, BTW, is the trust Vila actually shows in Blake -
even when he's breaking out in this biiiigg way, at a time when anyone can
see Blake is rather less than his <ahem> easy-going self, Vila does have
faith that Blake won't just up and leave him to get himself out of it...)
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:53:05 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: First Impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <20000410145305.94901.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
<snip>
><Also, presumably, if they needed the neutrotope they had problems similar
>to Destiny's anyway.>
>
>That doesn't follow *at all* - nothing in the episode even suggests that
>the
>plotters need it, just that they're willing to conspire at theft and mass
>murder to *get* it. Assuming there's another whole planet behind them is
>assuming rather a lot without a skerrick of proof to back it.
Granted, however there is also no proof to the contrary either. We know
nothing about Sara's contacts and neither does Blake, (which was kinda my
original point.) he merely makes assumptions without any proof and takes the
lives of a group of people who could, concievably, be innocent of theft and
mass murder. If all they have been told is that they can get hold of a badly
needed neutrotope by meeting a particular ship in a particular possition.
They might be blissfully unaware of Sara's murderous activities.
>As Avon says - quite truthfully - "try greed. It's usually reliable."
Indeed, however it is not exclusive.
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:04:32 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.helsinki.fi>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Motivations Justifications and Science.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0004101800310.20292-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
An excellent post, Gnog. I'd still like to elaborate on this a bit.
Gnog wrote:
<Personally I prefer to read between the lines and invent things that may
never have occurred to the actors / writers / producers, but never - the -
less actually manage to "explain" those niggling little things that pop up
from time to time.>
I think we all prefer to do this. We like to impose order in our
experience, connect two seemingly unrelated points in space with a
straight line, trace regular patterns amidst random clutter. Within every
narrative there are "holes", omissions, unresolved threads (however
minute) which the audience fill in their minds, thus completing the actual
(and unique) story. Blake's 7, as has often been pointed out, is ripe with
intentional and unintenional ambiguities, which is one main reason why its
appeal endures. There seems to be so much more of it than there actually
is. This encourages interpretation, incites imagination; it drives people
to write fan fiction and fuels the discussion on the Lyst, all these
things that inflate the fanlore, this neomythology that has accumulated
around the original canonical core (as someone recently mentioned, B7's
mythology is largely fan-created in contrast to B5's primarily given,
canonical mythology).
There is so much in the show that was probably nothing more than
accidental or never even occurred to the people making it, but for others
these same things are the things the show hinges on. The mysterious sneer
on a character's face may only be the result of the actor trying hard not
to break wind, but it is duly logged, analysed and assigned a significance
that seems to go together with all those other isolated character moments
in the series and support the view you have or would like to have of that
character (personally, I think lot of those small "blunders" and
"accidents" help to make scenes "breathe" better, make them seem less
calculated). A character or a plot turn may be just secondary filler to
the makers of the series and many fans, but for some it's the most
interesting part of the whole series and they centralise it, making it
their fixed mark from which everything else starts. The authorial
intention is only the beginning of individual interpretation.
I do these kinds of things too, and yes, I enjoy it. I like Blake's 7 and
I'd like it to make sense (internal consistancy, rather than absolute
logic, which with things like science would be rather difficult). Still,
I'm also interested in how things work without the actual story universe
as well as within it, and right now, having recently worked on a long
paper about science fiction as a mirror of its historical context, I tend
to concentrate more on the outside. It can mean both failures (as the
post-Star One Jenna issue seems to me) and successes (how you create a
sense of character continuity without him being there with as few
resources as possible is a talent just as much as being able to write
snappy one-liners). But as I said, it's not as interesting as searching
for a reason within the story universe, and as Gnog said, it can easily
become a one-key-fits-all-locks solution.
<What do other people think of the balance between these two views. At
what
point do we stop suspending our disbelief and accept that the whole thing
is
scripted, and the script writer is human, with a tight deadline.>
My own approach is that it is all scripted or, as the script is only the
starting point with a television programme or a movie,
predetermined. Having this notion in my head doesn't stop me from getting
absorbed in a show or a movie if it's good enough. With Blake's 7 I am
willing to do a lot of suspension of disbelief. But rather than having
some specific point at which I move from one approach to another, I tend
to see them as complementary. Just because I'm pretty sure the writer
didn't know what he was doing and didn't care enough to make an effort, it
doesn't mean that I'm not willing to play his game and try to make
something out of his mess.
Just to add my own angle to this question: I think that if people like a
character, they are more willing to see that character's inconsistencies
as character complexity and more willing to explain and rationalise them
with their own inventions, while with less-interesting characters any
illogicalities are more likely to be just dismissed as bad writing. What
do you think?
Kai
P.S. Have to ask this: did Gnog happen all of a sudden or did you deny
your essential Gnogness for years? <smile>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:35:24 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Motivations Justifications and Science.
Message-ID: <01e001bfa304$99a5a670$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kai wrote:
> Just to add my own angle to this question: I think that if people like a
> character, they are more willing to see that character's inconsistencies
> as character complexity and more willing to explain and rationalise them
> with their own inventions, while with less-interesting characters any
> illogicalities are more likely to be just dismissed as bad writing. What
> do you think?
From an episode (as opposed to a character) POV, this is exactly my point
about 'Animals': that where we forgive problems in other episodes as, say,
production limitations or potential openings for fanfic, this episode acts
as the scapegoat for all that's problematic about the show.
Una
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #105
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