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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 119
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Re: Breakdown
[B7L] Avon and Aliens
[B7L] First Imperssions: "Breakdown"
[B7L] Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Breakdown"
Help...I have a few Questions
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Breakdown"
Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Re: [B7L] Liberator's vaults
Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
[B7L] Zine Sale List
Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
[B7L] Re: Backgrounds and Manners
[B7L] Avon's shyness
Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] Nick's emails
Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
[B7L] Gareth on Bergerac
Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] The Incredible Gan
Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:48:32 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Breakdown
Message-ID: <000501bfaecd$b7dff620$fab74e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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When I log off IE 5.0, I get a dialogue box that says "Disconnecting in 30
seconds." Now I always hear Blake's voice saying "You've got 20."
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:24:38 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <20000425.102457.-84239.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kathryn wrote:
>Which simply shows that he hasn't bought in to that particular
>pyramid. I suspect Avon's personal pyramid is intelligence, (c'mon,
>he's an INTx!) which he respects or disrespects regardless of race,
>gender or species.
Well, I think intelligence and survival instincts are what he respects,
with an unadmitted respect for conscience - oh, and for how highly people
rate _him_, but he probably just lists that under intelligence.
It's just interesting the way he seems completely uneffected by a world
view most of his people seem to take for granted. But then, I've been
knee deep in some B7 crossover stuff lately and it's making me look at
some things sideways (I don't think I'll ever recover).
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:38:08 EDT Mac4781@aol.com writes:
>
> The following exchange suggested to me that Avon had brought up
> Cally's
> non-human status on occasion. Hence Cally's response in the
> following:
>
> AVON: Try a straight question.
> CALLY: You didn't trust me. You thought I had some obscure
> reaction to something on that ship, didn't you? You
> and I teleported so that you could watch me and see
> what I'd do. You cut Tarrant out because he had the
> same idea, but he'd made no secret of it.
> AVON: You're over-reacting.
> CALLY: Probably. But you wouldn't expect a normal human
> response, would you? I'm not quite human.
>
My own take on this exchange is a little different. We've seen Tarrant
and Dayna turn on Cally when weird things happened and Avon defuse the
situation in Dawn of the Gods, for example. At the beginning of this
episode, Tarrant _didn't_ make any secret of something strange happening
with Cally, which Avon again defused. Just before this exchange, Tarrant
has very openly voiced some hostile suspicions (granted, somewhat
justified by later events, but not the response someone who'd just saved
the crew might hope for. Also, since the alien [who doesn't seem to have
much influence over anyone but Cally at this point and probably isn't
influencing Tarrant's behavior] want to limit Cally's loyalty to the crew
and prey on her feelings of isolation, Tarrant's little rant doesn't help
him). Avon again tries to defuse it, only to have Cally turn on him.
Avon, IMHO, was surprised by her reaction. I don't think it was typical
or had a strong basis in their relationship. My guess is that either the
alien was able to influence Cally enough that she temporarily lumps Avon
in with the others or that, since she is trying to help the alien on some
level, she deliberately pushes Avon away. From Avon's response, I think
it was counterproductive, since I'd guess this is when his suspicions
really began to kick into gear (although not enough to keep him from
having a certain fight with Tarrant or from trying to understand the blue
egg instead of throwing it into space). Oh, well, even geniuses have
their off days.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:59:50 +0000
From: Murray <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] First Imperssions: "Breakdown"
Message-Id: <l03110701b52b896a7394@[134.226.96.44]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ariana,
>The thing that surprised me about this episode was that it seemed to have
>two parts. On the one hand, we have the "will they make it in time?" aspect
>of the dash to the station. Then once they reach the station, the episode
>seems to switch focus, suddenly changing from action/adventure into more of
>a psycho-political drama.
I agree about the 'psycho-political drama bit', which like 'Mission to
Destiny', shows us more of the non-Federation galaxy, particularly about
how non-Federation people regard the B7 crew.
>The ending was very, very nice. By this, I naturally mean the real end of
>the episode, not the S1999 Y2-type pointless tag scene. Kayn killing Farron
>and then the whole station being destroyed by a stray bolt was very good
>IMHO. Nice to see chance still plays a part in the life of future human
>beings.
Yes, it was an interesting ending, the result of a tragic accident. I
wonder how the destruction of XK-72 was regarded by the neutral planets
that funded it.
>I'm sure there are other explanations, but the point is that I felt his
>behaviour needed an explanation. However, I did enjoy the surprise of having
>him turn up, gun in hand, just when he was needed. Nice scene. OTOH, I've
>decided that Michael Keating is a pet, so I may be biased! ;)
I liked Vila confronting Kayn. Of course, he is a genius with locks, so can
put himself in Kayn's shoes, knowing the stalling tactics an expert can
come up with.<g>
>Blake's determination to save Gan shows that he does care about individuals
>and not just The People in general. I also appreciated the way his patience
>with Avon seemed to have run out about mid-episode, particularly the remark
>about him not wanting to ask Avon to stay. One of his qualities as a leader
>is shown at the end of the episode, where he laughs with the crew at Gan's
>recovery. Considering that Avon chooses to glower in a corner at that point,
>I shudder to think how their fortunes will change when Blake is gone and Mr
>Charisma is in charge.
Wait till you watch some later episodes!
>Although events -- Kayn's betrayal in particular -- conspired to scupper
>Avon's deal with Farron, it would be interesting to speculate whether Avon
>would have gone through with it if everything went smoothly. That would
>depend on whether one views the attempt as a sincere desire for a new life,
>or some posturing to prove a point to Blake. My personal theory is that Avon
>is a bit of a Prima Donna. Either way, he clearly does care enough about his
>colleagues to reject Farron's compromise proposal if it means abandoning the
>Liberator crew to their deaths. So much for his professed determination to
>be a loner.
Of course, none of the crew get to see all this.<g> I'm reminded of an
episode in which he defends Vila, but only when the latter is not there.<bg>
>>On the guest character front, both Kayn and Renor need a good smack in the
>>chops. The latter for his "hello, hello" comments to the Liberator's women,
>>and the former for being an all around bad guy. At least Renor turned out to
>>be human, displaying compassion with Gan's plight. Kayn was just as cold and
>>calculating as a machine. A chillingly effective baddie.
It was interesting to see that the Federation has some outside admirers.
>>That star chart was an interesting "print out". I wonder if Zen is full of
>>little pixies who painstakingly stuck all the little circles onto the
>>Plexiglas.
There must have been a shortage of paper.<g>
>>I thought it a bit strange that they let Kayn and Renor into the sickbay and
>>then left them to it on their own, until Vila decided to wander in with a
>>weapon. For hunted rebels, they're awfully trusting of complete strangers
>>they need desperate help from.
Presumably the crew were relying on Kayn and Renor's Hippocratic Oath.
>>Dialogue Gems:
>>==============
One piece of dialogue I loved was after Blake decided to keep their
identity secret:
JENNA: They're neutral.
BLAKE: That's a term that covers a wide range of attitudes, and some of
them not very friendly.
This paved the way for the attitudes of Faron and Kayn, particularly the
latter. It was good to see that Blake was aware that 'neutral' did not
necessarily mean 'friendly'. One only has to think of the attitudes of
countries such as Ireland and Switzerland during the Second World War.
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:53:18 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <003401bfaedf$2a57cb40$e5ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Ellynne G. wrote:
>Avon, who is always ready to make a sneering comments about humans,
Could this indicate that Avon is *not* human? Maybe he's a very superior
android? We know from Project Avalon and Death Watch that the technology
for making them exists in the B7 universe.
>interestingly enough doesn't strike me as being as prejudiced as the
>others
And:
>It's just interesting the way he seems completely unaffected by a world
view most of his people seem to take for granted.
Shows he has an independent mind :-)
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:17:16 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Message-ID: <R9BjWgAsEeB5Ew1K@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <32.41c9ecf.2636dda0@aol.com>, Mac4781@aol.com writes
>The following exchange suggested to me that Avon had brought up Cally's
>non-human status on occasion.
But not necessarily in a derogatory fashion. When he first meets her,
he's fascinated by her telepathy. One of the odder (from other people's
POV) habits of scientist types is their way of treating their friends
and colleagues as experimental material.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:59:03 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Breakdown"
Message-ID: <003901bfaee8$56287180$e5ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Ariana wrote:
>I also appreciated the way his [Blake's] patience
>with Avon seemed to have run out about mid-episode, particularly the remark
>about him not wanting to ask Avon to stay.
He appears to be intent on driving him away, which might well be the best
way to make him stay :-)
>One of his qualities as a leader
>is shown at the end of the episode, where he laughs with the crew at Gan's
>recovery.
But can any of them really be happy about Gan's recovery? His limiter
implant can start malfunction again at any time. I can't imagine any of
them feeling safe with him from now on.
>Interesting how he [Avon] blames Blake for not turning back,
>whereas Avon was the one who insisted they go through the anomaly in the
>first place.
His recklessness in proposing they plunge into the unknown danger zone
seemed out of character to me.
>Although events -- Kayn's betrayal in particular -- conspired to scupper
>Avon's deal with Farron, it would be interesting to speculate whether Avon
>would have gone through with it if everything went smoothly. That would
>depend on whether one views the attempt as a sincere desire for a new life,
>or some posturing to prove a point to Blake. My personal theory is that
Avon
>is a bit of a Prima Donna.
Just a bit? :-)
>Either way, he clearly does care enough about his
>colleagues to reject Farron's compromise proposal if it means abandoning
the
>Liberator crew to their deaths. So much for his professed determination to
>be a loner.
With Kayn knowing his identity, he was no longer safe on the station, so he
really had no other choice than to return to Liberator. IMO he would have
returned anyway, but this provided him a valid selfish reason. :-)
>I did quite like Farron, though. Not a nice person by any means, but his
>politician's view of any situation made him interesting. I particularly
>appreciated the way he rapidly came up with a contingency plan to keep Avon
>when he learned that the Feds were on their way. He's evidently one to
seize
>any opportunity on offer; pity for his sake that he didn't realise Avon's
>true attachment to his Liberator colleagues. He possibly could have got
>himself a deal if he hadn't been so flippant about the Liberator's
>destruction.
No, he couldn't. Even if Farron was too thick to realise that Kayn would
not hesitate to betray Avon to the Federation, we can be sure that Avon was
aware of that.
>I thought it a bit strange that they let Kayn and Renor into the sickbay
and
>then left them to it on their own, until Vila decided to wander in with a
>weapon. For hunted rebels, they're awfully trusting of complete strangers
>they need desperate help from.
Not to mention the utter stupidity of using their real names in front of the
doctors. The first thing Blake does after teleporting back with Kayn is
giving their identities away by calling Avon by his name.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:07:22 +0100
From: "DragonFly" <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Help...I have a few Questions
Message-ID: <007a01bfaf4e$12f7c1c0$c82e883e@oemcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all,
Can anyone answer me the following,
1) I have decided to collect the 1992 edition of Blake 7 (I found 2 of them
on the market and loved the art work on them rather than the photo type
boxes brought out 1998) are these readily available...?
2)me and my husband are intrested in coming along to a convension, do you
have to be members of a fan club, are any held in the middlands, and would
we be feel a little unwelcome because we don't know any other fans in
person?
3)do you have meets or get togethers as I would like to get to know some
fans (esp. about my age 20's).
I hope you can help me
Julia Lawson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:17:59 -0700
From: Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Breakdown"
Message-ID: <20000425121759.D30762@zork.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
begin Marian de Haan quotation:
> Ariana wrote:
> >Interesting how he [Avon] blames Blake for not turning back,
> >whereas Avon was the one who insisted they go through the anomaly
> >in the first place.
>
> His recklessness in proposing they plunge into the unknown danger
> zone seemed out of character to me.
There seems to be a bit of an ambiguity about Avon's trust in
various forces. For starters, he seems to praise machinery and
computers above humans. This was a sentiment that reverberated a bit
in Travis's faith in mutoids.
However, Avon really doesn't like Zen very much. He was
suspicious of Zen from the very beginning, and threatened it almost as
much as he did Blake.
So, you end up with scenes where Avon sides with the crew over
Zen. It seemed out of place, at times.
--
CrackMonkey.Org - Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
LinuxCabal.Org - Co-location facilities and meeting space
Pigdog.Org - The Online Handbook for Bad People of the Future
You are not entitled to your opinions.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:23:29 -0700
From: Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Message-ID: <20000425122329.E30762@zork.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
begin DragonFly quotation:
> 1) I have decided to collect the 1992 edition of Blake 7 (I found 2
> of them on the market and loved the art work on them rather than the
> photo type boxes brought out 1998) are these readily available...?
You're referring to the ones with the sketched covers? These
are the tapes that my friends and I rent from Le Video in San
Francsico every Monday night (we just watched Orac and Redemption last
night).
> 2)me and my husband are intrested in coming along to a convension,
> do you have to be members of a fan club, are any held in the
> middlands, and would we be feel a little unwelcome because we don't
> know any other fans in person?
My impression has been that the conventions tend to melt
together into a sort of BBC-con. You get Dr. Who, Blake's 7, and even
a little Avengers mixed in. I recall going to Anglicon when I was
quite young (I used to live in Seattle). Of course, that was long
ago.
--
CrackMonkey.Org - Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
LinuxCabal.Org - Co-location facilities and meeting space
Pigdog.Org - The Online Handbook for Bad People of the Future
You are not entitled to your opinions.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:58:05 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Message-ID: <psJ9SeBNjfB5EwDC@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <007a01bfaf4e$12f7c1c0$c82e883e@oemcomputer>, DragonFly
<dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>2)me and my husband are intrested in coming along to a convension, do you
>have to be members of a fan club,
No
>are any held in the middlands,
No idea
> and would
>we be feel a little unwelcome because we don't know any other fans in
>person?
From my experience, I very much doubt it.
Come along to Redemption in Kent next year (see sig), and meet a large
collection of your fellow Lystians. The SMOF website also has a con
calender, which you might useful to look at.
--
Julia Jones
Redemption 01 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
23-25 February 2001, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:14:59 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "Blakes 7 List" <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator's vaults
Message-ID: <004901bfaefb$68a91900$e3259ad8@cgorman>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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> cgorman@idirect.com writes:
> Hi Steve - welcome!
Thanks! :-)
> Interesting possibility. Could be -- may be even probable -- that the
Feds
> don't allow trading in hard currencies within their own system, so that
> Liberator's crew would have to go through multiple trades to obtain
official
> Federation credits. OTOH, it would probably be difficult to pay weapons
> dealers, informants, etc., with Federation credits, especially if they did
> business mostly outside the Federation.
Sounds good. I guess that during the brief occupation by Tarvin and his
pirates (see "Bounty"), some of the valuables were off loaded. I don't
think we knew how many ships were used by Tarvin.
Steve.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~cgorman/b7/index.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:21:08 EDT
From: Carolyn772@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Message-ID: <e8.38d55de.26379e84@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Even more off-topic--
60 Minutes (TV show with features about items in the news, interviews with
interesting people, etc.) did an article Sunday about the Lemba people of
Zimbabwe, an African tribe who have always claimed to be a lost tribe of
Israel. They do not look even vaguely Semitic, but truly Black.
Well, to quote from a website on the subject:
>>The Lemba, a Bantu-speaking people of southern Africa, have a tradition that
they were led out of Judea by a man named Buba. They practice circumcision,
keep one day a week holy and avoid eating pork or piglike animals, such as the
hippopotamus.
Several groups around the world practice Judaic rites or claim to be descended
from Biblical tribes without having any ancestral Jewish connection. And there
is no Buba in the records of Jewish history.
But the remarkable thing about the Lemba tradition is that it may be exactly
right. A team of geneticists has found that many Lemba men carry in their male
chromosome a set of DNA sequences that is distinctive of the cohanim, the
Jewish priests believed to be the descendants of Aaron. The priestly genetic
signature is particularly common among Lemba men who belong to the senior of
their 12 groups, known as the Buba clan. <<
As my Daddy used to say "No one can be sure who their grandfather was..."
(Do a web search on "Lemba." It's fascinating stuff)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:24:40 -0400
From: Susan Beth <susanbeth33@mindspring.com>
To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, blake7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Zine Sale List
Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.20000425222440.0395df58@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A former member of this list needs to move on very short notice. To cut
down the load she's biting the bullet and has put a chunk of her zine
collection up for sale -- and at *very* reasonable prices.
Take a look: some of these bargains might be what you need to round out
your own collection. (You could also pass the list along to other
lists/friends who might be interested.)
Please note that all replies should go to wrenmoyer@aol.com not me.
==-==-==-==-==-==-==
>Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:15:55 EDT
>Subject: Zine Sale List
>
>Zines for Sale!
>
>All items are $8 unless otherwise indicated. Buy 4 items, get the 5th free
(lowest->priced item is free). All prices include postage within the U.S.
(book rate). I'm >sorry, but since I'm dealing with a very limited amount
of time, and since our >(fairly rural) post office has problems handling
overseas mail, I'm not going to be >able to ship zines out of the U.S.
>
>
>Please send all inquiries/orders to wrenmoyer@aol.com.
>
>
>PLEASE forward this to any friends or fannish mailing lists that you think
might be >interested!
>
>
>Red Dwarf Smegazine: Volume 2, #8 $5
>Red Dwarf Smegazine: Volume 2, #3 $5
>Red Dwarf Smegazine: Volume 2, #2 $5
>Blakes 7 Summer Special 1995 (cover is damaged) $3
>Blakes 7: The Inside Story (book) $10
>
>
>
>ZINES
>
>Blakes 7 Slash or Adult (require age statement)
>
>Avon Calling II
>Avon Calling III
>Oblaquest
>Oblaque IV
>Oblaque V
>Straight Blakes #1 (het adult)
>Straight Blakes #3 (het adult)
>Blakes 7: The Other Side #1
>Blakes 7: The Other Side #2
>Southern Lights Special 2.5 ($4-small)
>Southern Lights Special 3.75 ($4-small)
>Southern Lights Special 4.5
>Southern Comfort 6.5
>Rebel Desires
>Forbidden Star #1
>Resistance 5
>Resistance 6
>Resistance 8
>Fire & Ice 2
>Songs of Innocence
>Vila Please
>The Bondstone ($6--small)
>
>Blakes 7 Genzines
>
>Last Stand at the Edge of the World
>Shadow at the Edge
>Serrated Seven
>B7 Complex #5 ($4-small)
>B7 Complex #11 ($5-water damaged)
>B7 Complex #12
>B7 Complex #13
>B7 Complex #14 ($4-water damaged)
>B7 Complex #16
>Southern Seven 6
>Probability Square
>PowerPlay 3 (slight damage to back cover; $7)
>Roads Not Taken
>Gambit 6
>Gambit 7
>Gambit 8
>Gambit 10
>Gambit 11
>Threads Through Infinity
>
>
>Miscellaneous Adult/Slash (require age statement)
>
>The Naughty Bits (multimedia humor; adult)
>X-plicit Fantasies (X-Files slash)
>Homosapien Fourplay (multimedia slash)
>A Frisky Out of Water (multimedia slash; $4-small)
>
>
>Miscellaneous Genzines:
>
>You Pay and Pay and Pay (Due South hurt/comfort; G-R rated.)
>The Cricketer (Doctor Who)
>Timelog 11 (Doctor Who)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
Susan Beth
(susanbeth33@mindspring.com)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:13:43 -0500
From: "huh" <huh@ccm.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Message-ID: <008101bfaf2d$6eaec5c0$3564e0d1@0z4g4>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Several groups around the world practice Judaic rites or claim to be
descended
> from Biblical tribes without having any ancestral Jewish connection. And
there
> is no Buba in the records of Jewish history.
Actually, putting aside any claims as to descendance from the "Lost
Tribes", I'd like to remind everyone that in the distant past the Jews used
to proselytze and gain believers in the One God. Whatever the origin of
various claimants, it isn't at all surprising that pockets of people
practice biblical Judaism (i.e. the Jewish faith as recorded in the Torah
and not including the later commentaries which form the basis of "modern"
practice since the fall of the Temple).
> But the remarkable thing about the Lemba tradition is that it may be
exactly
> right. A team of geneticists has found that many Lemba men carry in their
male
> chromosome a set of DNA sequences that is distinctive of the cohanim, the
> Jewish priests believed to be the descendants of
Aaron
And of course as the Bible relates over and over, those Jewish boys just
couldn't stop running after foreign wives! ;) Or settling in an marrying
among the converts wouldn't be a stretch. Not to mention of course the
diaspora and various travels of subsequent Jews.
I wonder if the Jews made it as a distinct group into the Federation era?
Can't recall any Commander Cohens
or Governor Levis.
Lisabeth
www.americantrakehner.com/WilsonPhotography/Index.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:20:03 -0500
From: "huh" <huh@ccm.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Message-ID: <00ab01bfaf2e$507ba4a0$3564e0d1@0z4g4>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Does anyone else have trouble receiving Nick's emails? I've not been able to
read any of them.
puzzled.
www.americantrakehner.com/WilsonPhotography/Index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>; <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:38:24 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Backgrounds and Manners
Message-ID: <000501bfaf39$43f83580$3c694e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Speaking to points raised by Sally, Ariana, and Ellynne G. (and tying in
with my own Avonics post): another Avonian non-communication strategy is
saying things that are absolutely true in a manner that prevents anyone from
taking them seriously. I think the key here is (I think it's in Aftermath)
when Dayna asks Avon why he won't share his thoughts, and he says "Perhaps
I'm shy." Although he expects Dayna to treat this as yet another in an
endless line of frivolous remarks, it's also true.
At least one mechanism in shyness is fear of rejection (or rejection by
human beings; Avon seems quite comfortable with Orac and the sopron). If
anyone attempts to reject or hurt him, he will have a store of ready-to-wear
insults, in case he is unable to generate an even better one on the fly.
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:33:08 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon's shyness
Message-ID: <68.2ea028d.2637d994@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dana wrote:
> another Avonian non-communication strategy is saying things that are
absolutely > true in a manner that prevents anyone from taking them
seriously.
It is also a marvelous way to deliver an insult. I've used it often with a
Servalan wannabe at work. Everyone around us knows it's the brutal truth
that no one would dare to actually say, but she hasn't caught on yet. (I
thought the nervous laughter from her subordinates was a dead giveaway).
> At least one mechanism in shyness is fear of rejection (or rejection by
human > beings; Avon seems quite comfortable with Orac and the sopron).
BTW, we'll be adding the sopron rock (trademark pending) to the B7 Action
Figure line shortly. We are currently test marketing it with hilarious
results when certain of the unconverted explicitly describe their worst
features without understanding exactly how sopron works.
Target market: disgruntled office workers who have purchased Dilbert
merchandise. We'll package it in an attractive box as the perfect "Boss'
Day" gift.
All of that was simply a way of this not being a "me-too" message. I support
Dana's theory. In my experience, shy people can construct a more aggressive
and outgoing mask, worn for protection but shed with people they trust
implicitly. Poor Avon, trusting no one provides little opportunity to drop
that vicious demeanor.
Trish
formerly prmolloy@aol.com
Just switched email names, retained same old brain.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:22:38 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Message-ID: <20000425.234757.-95331.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:13:43 -0500 "huh" <huh@ccm.net> writes:
>
> > is no Buba in the records of Jewish history.
>
Amazing. I didn't think there were any Bubas outside of certain redneck
jokes.
OTOH, I understand names can change dramatically once different languages
get ahold of them (Ellynne from Helene, for example).
> I wonder if the Jews made it as a distinct group into the Federation
> era?
> Can't recall any Commander Cohens
> or Governor Levis.
>
On one hand, the Federation is about as tolerant of religious groups in
general (much less ones that already started out as minorities with
histories of persecution) as it is of curly haired, charismatic, rebel
leaders. Maybe less.
OTOH, the Jews have a wonderful history of surviving despite all
persecutions. Inspiring, to say the least. It's not impossible to
believe they could survive as a quiet underground. But probably not
doing anything blatant like using distinctively Jewish names.
Didn't someone once suggest Avon could be Jewish?
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:47:55 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <20000425.234757.-95331.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:53:18 +0200 "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
writes:
> Ellynne G. wrote:
>
> >Avon, who is always ready to make a sneering comments about humans,
>
> Could this indicate that Avon is *not* human? Maybe he's a very
> superior
> android?
Someone (whose post I deleted by accident, along with your name
[sorry-sorry-sorry) commented on Avon's mistrust of Zen, despite his
usual trust for machines over humans. This would actually fit it he were
some kind of android. After all, he might trust machines more than
humans, but a machine - especially one that was self-aware and had
unknown programmers and that had already looked into his mind - could
also be a particular rival and threat.
This would also explain Avon initially denying machines could be
self-aware when they trip over self-aware machines twice a season. He
was covering for himself.
It also gives a stronger context to his low opinion of biotech in The
Web.
And it would explain why his 'brother' called him Avon. Either his
brother was another android (destroyed?) or his brother could have been
someone who helped create him, possibly someone who had served as a
personality template or some such, perhaps killed after (or before? and
his memories-personality-whatever was transferred after his death?)
Avon's completion.
The big flaw is Avon's relatively frequent use of medical technology when
wounded. Unless some of his body is biotech. Or he was designed to be
able to bleed, heal, and use those healing bandages.
I wonder what Anna would think about this. Or Grant.
Uh, let me just say that I'm more prone to thinking of Avon as a possible
alien / not quite human type than an android ... but this works. I don't
want to imagine him meeting Data.
Side issue: Initially, I couldn't imagine anything dumber for a ship
entering a danger zone to do than shut down completely. As security
programming goes, this is like having the autopilot turn off
automatically if the pilot's injured.
Then I got to thinking, being off put Zen in a state where he couldn't
respond to commands from anyone - including folks _off_ the ship. He
(yes, I'm thinking of Zen as he, it's the voice. And 'it' is
uncomfortable). It also would have made Zen harder to detect to anyone
off the ship. Maybe this was some part of the System's territory? This
also explains why Zen wouldn't explain what the problem was, he seemed to
have strict programming blocks against talking about the old homestead.
Of course, if it wasn't the System, it might still have been something
that could influence Zen or that would react badly to evidence of a
System ship. It could even be that the crew was safer because Zen didn't
tell them why the area was off limits. That way, nothing telepathic could
pick up the truth from them.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:57:58 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Nick's emails
Message-ID: <001a01bfaf44$637f7e80$e5ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Huh asked:
>Does anyone else have trouble receiving Nick's emails?
Yes.
>I've not been able to read any of them.
Nor I. My computer goes into a fit when I try to open the attachments.
They seem to turn up in the archives, though.
>puzzled.
Very. Any suggestions, anyone?
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:22:18 +0930
From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
To: "huh" <huh@ccm.net>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Message-ID: <001901bfaf43$95936e00$f8c326cb@marina>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Yes Ive noticed that too. I just thought it was my dinosaur computer. <G>
Min.
-----Original Message-----
From: huh <huh@ccm.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Date: Wednesday, 26 April 2000 12:51
Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
>Does anyone else have trouble receiving Nick's emails? I've not been able
to
>read any of them.
>puzzled.
>www.americantrakehner.com/WilsonPhotography/Index.htm
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net>
>To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>; <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 2:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 26 Apr 2000 09:53:30 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
Cc: "huh" <huh@ccm.net>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Help...I have a few Questions
Message-ID: <86r9bt2t8l.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>> "Minnie" == Minnie <minnie@picknowl.com.au> writes:
> Yes Ive noticed that too. I just thought it was my dinosaur computer. <G>
As far as I can see, Nick's mails are perfectly fine. However, the
three of you who have posted about having problems reading them are
all using Microsoft Outlook Express. The temptation to just say
"Change to _real_ mailreader" is rather great.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"Just about anything can be done if you are demented enough."
-- Christopher C. Petro, scary.devil.monastery
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:52:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Gareth on Bergerac
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0426075209-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
BBC1, Thursday 27 April, 2.05 Bergerac - Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie.
That's the episode Gareth's in - playing some kind of a smuggler if memory
serves. I shall have to try and record it - my current copy is 2nd or 3rd
generation NTSC!
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:00:41 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <20000426190041.B9846@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 07:53:18PM +0200, Marian de Haan wrote:
> Ellynne G. wrote:
>
> >Avon, who is always ready to make a sneering comments about humans,
>
> Could this indicate that Avon is *not* human? Maybe he's a very superior
> android? We know from Project Avalon and Death Watch that the technology
> for making them exists in the B7 universe.
Considering the crossover that Ellynne has been writing... it's an
interesting coincidence that this should come up in this thread...
Though of course in the story in question, Avon's heritage is about as
far from androids as one could get... (evil, evil smile)
(Yes, Ellynne, I finished re-reading it today, but may not have time
to type up comments until weekend...)
Kathryn Andersen
(still attempting to edit "Staked Blake")
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:21:32 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: RCalla6725@aol.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Incredible Gan
Message-ID: <20000426102132.83918.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
RCalla6725@aol.com wrote
>Loads of Hulk-like encounters in this week's episode. I do find that while
>he
>can come up with initially impressive situations, Terry Nation is
>ultimately
>limited, unlike other writers like Holmes and Boucher. It's only episode
>ten
>and already we're back in the familiar territories of meteorite storms and
>"space medicine".
I find, from watching Nation's Blake's 7, Dr Who and Avengers episodes, that
he's good at coming up with initial ideas and scenarios but that he isn't
very good at developing them and needs a strong Script Editor (i.e. Chris
Boucher) to keep him on the straight and narrow and to get the best out of
him.
This can best be seen with Terry Nation's Dalek scripts. The first two are
good, the Daleks are interesting characters, they plot and scheme rather
than just screaming 'Exterminate' all the time. By the third story, The
Chase, they are less interesting and their dialogue more stilted and
hackneyed and this downward slide continues - Planet of the Daleks is
practically a re-hash of the first ever Dalek story.
Two of the best Dalek stories, Power of the Daleks and Evil of the Daleks
(the stories are good - no one said the titles were!) were written by David
Whittaker who seems to understand Nation's creations better then he does.
However Nation is also responsible for the superb Genesis of the Daleks, the
Script Editor for which was Robert Holmes who seems to be able to inspire
Nation to produce a great script and some superb characterisation. I think
that Nation *needed* this sort of sounding board to push him into producing
better scripts. Just my point of view mind you...
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:56:21 EDT
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: huh@ccm.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On Dayna and Evolution
Message-ID: <d9.34fe82a.26383365@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 04/25/2000 10:45:25 PM Central Daylight Time, huh@ccm.net
writes:
> I wonder if the Jews made it as a distinct group into the Federation era?
> Can't recall any Commander Cohens
> or Governor Levis.
Religious practice was banned in the Federation itself, but that doesn't mean
people didn't observe their faiths in secret. I certainly think it's very
possible that various religions survived on neutral colony worlds, too. So
the Jews might not have made it as a distinct group inside the Federation (or
they practice secretly, as many did in Spain when the Inquisition was in
power), but it's certainly likely that Judaism survived in the colonies.
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:39:53 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <20000426.103954.-85843.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:00:41 +1000 Kathryn Andersen
<kat@welkin.apana.org.au> writes:
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 07:53:18PM +0200, Marian de Haan wrote:
> > Could this indicate that Avon is *not* human? Maybe he's a very
> superior
> > android?
>
> Considering the crossover that Ellynne has been writing... it's an
> interesting coincidence that this should come up in this thread...
> Though of course in the story in question, Avon's heritage is about
> as
> far from androids as one could get... (evil, evil smile)
>
Ellynne adds her evil, evil smile. Yes, I thought it was pretty
interesting too.
Smiling evilly,
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #119
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