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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 124
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] BBC
[B7L] Whose Avon is it anyway? (longish)
[B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
[B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
[B7L] Looking for old rare zines
Re: [B7L] BBC
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
Re: [B7L] BBC
Re: [B7L] Looking for old rare zines
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:22:19 +0100
From: Patrick Bean <pdbean@argonet.co.uk>
To: Andy Hopkinson <andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC
Message-ID: <49b7dbe192pdbean@argonet.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain
On 30 Apr, Andy Hopkinson <andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:
> if the viewing figures keep dropping
What have the viewing figures been? I would guess that part of the reason
for them dropping is that it dose not have a fixed slot, so people miss
one and then do not bother to keep up with the story after that.
--
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|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick David Bean)
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ Web http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/pdbean
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 05:36:17 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Whose Avon is it anyway? (longish)
Message-ID: <20000501123617.84970.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Sondra wrote:
<Re Sally's opinion as to whether Avon (and all the others) are "damaged": I
draw a distinction between being damaged in the literal sense of having
been injured and being damaged in the sense that one is *significantly
impaired* as a result of the injury.>
I'd agree with you based on that definition - my own would be a little less
stringent in that they were probably emotionally or morally (even
spiritually) dented - in a way that makes what they find themselves fighting
for that much more difficult than if the damage hadn't occurred. They have
to work that much harder - for instance, Tarrant *is* normally decent and
well-meaning, and reasonably honorable; the part of him that is damaged
rears up in City and Moloch, and makes him more interesting *and* his normal
integrity all the more worth while. The characters I find most interesting -
Blake, Avon, Vila, Soolin, Tarrant, maybe Jenna - don't find it as easy to
*be* "good" as say Gan or Cally,which is why watching Avon Doing the Right
Thing is so much more satisfying than watching Gan doing it :-)
The point as I see it is that you can be damaged by circumstances and still
work your way around and above the damage - as quite a few of Our Heroes do.
After all, Blake is still - even with what's been done to him - by far the
strongest, mentally and morally, of the lot (IMHO - biased? who, me?)
Remember what Bran Foster said, "There's not much left of the man I knew."
Blake had to literally put himself back together with precious little help
from anyone, even his caring but hardly medically knowledgable crew (at that
round table discussion in SLD, the pain is showing - 'tis fascinating
watching the other's reaction to it). And he has to do it while at the same
time taking on half the galaxy (the half that did this to him in the first
place). Not knowing the man Foster knew, we don't know how well, but even by
mid 1st season, he's changed a lot from TWB.
<Speculation about an emotionally barren upbringing is just that --
speculation.>
But that's where the fun is - yes, I *know* we can just say Avon was born
both bloody-minded and bloody impossible :-) but where's the fun in that?
Starting from what we each see in the characters (and it's all wildly
different, of course <g>) and trying to fit the jagged bits together like a
particularly gorgeous jigsaw...trying to explain the weird and wonderful way
Kerr's mind works is an important part of the joy of this Lyst for me, and
we can't do that without speculating (also yes, another fancy word for
guessing - but can anyone prove me wrong? Probably. Will I accept it? Not
till I fall out of love with my own theories).
I admit it, his illogical streaks do fascinate me (okay, okay, among other
things. Lots of other things), but for me, Avon's actions simply doesn't
make sense unless he's been taught a fairly savage reserve at one point (and
no, it's not simply he was born that way - witness his lack of physical
reserve, and his emotional ties to Anna and Blake, at least).
Avon is in his own way blisteringly honest about himself ("I look on
self-interest as my greatest strength"). I don't think that ego is a front -
he's knows his own worth and that it's worth a *lot* - but he does tend to
emphasise his darker side, and he definitely *does* have
more-severe-than-normal problems with trust - both giving it (which is
neither uncommon nor in this society all that unwise) and even more so being
given it (see Time Squad, where he's considerably more comfortable with
Jenna's mistrust than Blake's trust). To the point where it cuts straight
across his survival instincts. From the beginning (*more* so at the
beginning) Avon's instinct to make others doubt him seems to be actually
stronger than his self-interest.
In Spacefall, when Blake challenges him on the fix-the-log scheme, anyone
with a grain of sense would do his best to reassure this group of criminals
that he is *not* capable of it/considering it. Avon throws the challenge
straight back at Blake, and doesn't admit that he's worked out the drawbacks
until Blake calls him on it - much later. Then in Cygnus Alpha, he's quite
chirpy at the thought that Blake might think he was willing to ditch him
(you will notice that Fearless and very Canny Leader doesn't *answer* that
leading question). And while trying to persuade Jenna to leave Blake (and
he's fairly serious - he means it when he asks "do you want to be rich or
dead?") he's at the same time quite deliberately stirring up her distrust of
*him* - not a move calculated to get what he wants.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 05:39:40 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
Message-ID: <20000501123940.1401.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I love Bounty, even though there's precious little of the good Avon and
Blake stuff in it (no, I am *not* single-minded). While the storyline is a
tad wonky, most of the crew get good stuff *and* good lines (and there's
some great lines scattered through it). Blake gets to show that the ruthless
bastard in Breakdown wasn't just a momentary lapse (I do love his ruthless
bastard bit, he's even better at it than Avon), and his judgement of
character - like Kayn, knowing just how to press (or in this case, take a
laser probe to) Sarkoff's buttons, then being the *only* one to reserve
judgement on Jenna. Love the line "be as quick as you can, and don't take
any stupid risks. We're taking enough of those down here," and the look on
Cally's face.
Jenna *does* get to act like the tough fighter she was supposed to be from
the start. At the start, she also acts as 2nd-in-command, and quite well too
(never gets to do it again, though). It's fascinating the way the crew do so
easily assume she's turned on them; Blake wakes up, takes one look around
and says "was Jenna behind it?"
Other reasons I love it:
a) the *real* start of the Avon & Vila stuff: I love the "Avon, shut up"
(pause) "please" (and Avon's grin and he turns back around).
VILA: I'm entitled to my opinion.
AVON: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is
irritating.
AVON: As a matter of fact, I don't like the look of it either.
VILA: [To himself] He agrees with me.
AVON: The flight path is too erratic.
VILA: [Still to himself] Makes it all seem worthwhile somehow.
Sarkoff's a wet self-pitying weed at the start, but being bull-dozed by
Blake seems to do him an awful lot of good - he's quite wonderful at the
end, bright, cheerful, the perfect politician. I do like Tyce. And Jenna and
Cally teasing Blake about her at the end (and his reaction - could he have
found Tyce just a little daunting?) is gorgeous.
Cally's outfit...yesss. So ridiculous it's a classic, both the coat and
those *shoes* for climbing (Sally's Fourth Rule: You Cannot Fight for
Freedom in Sensible Flat Shoes.) Avon's outfit is not one of his finest
moments (but we have yet to reach his sartorial climax in the Mummy
Suit...something to look forward to, Ariana).
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Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 05:40:55 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
Message-ID: <20000501124055.25727.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ariana wrote:
<I'll confess to a pet peeve about scifi shows set in future where people
keep coming back to, referring to or worshipping the 20th century. How many
people do you know who collect, say, fifteenth century memorabilia?>
Well, yes, if only I could afford it...
Makes some sense to me (though it *would* be nice of they'd for once pick
one of those dull, terribly untrendy periods like the 1900s.) After all,
people have collected antiques and historical artificacts for centuries
anyway, and the 20th century *produced* such a lot of - well - stuff, that
even after an atomic war there would be a lot more left than for previous
centuries.
But of course, what *would* survive would probably not be the vintage cars
and butterfly collections, but plastic cockroaches and eyeballs that bounce
and glow in the dark; Superslime-with-Worms and broken Barbies; miniature
flags featuring boxing kangaroos in boxer shorts, Welcome to Woop Woop
denture holders, vases in the shape of purple elephants with clocks in their
tummies, computer mice in the shape of - well - mice; fluffy nylon dice and
a million and twenty-four plastic teletubbies and naked blue smurfs. I'd've
liked to see Blake threatening to trash that lot...
<BLAKE: You're not going to force it, are you?!
VILA: -- and if I get it wrong, bang, no head.
BLAKE: I trust you.
VILA: And if it blows up and I'm right behind you -- !
BLAKE: That's why I trust you.>
<grin> this whole bit in the cell is great Blake-Vila-Avon interaction (and
my favourite scene in the episode), poor Cally and Gan seem to be
superfluous while My Heroes trade lines.
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Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:15:36 EDT
From: JEB31538@cs.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Looking for old rare zines
Message-ID: <7c.4e88fad.263f31d8@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'm looking for the following old rare zines.
Wallowzine
Wallow Plus 1
Wallow Plus 2
Orion's Approach
Blake's Quest ....the Adventure Continues by Mark Lang
For Blake's Quest I'll take the whole thing or any parts that you happen to
have. I believe it had, at least, 14 parts. It's from Australia in the mid
80's. The top 3 zines I believe are from England in the early 80's.
Orion's Approach is a cartoon book.
I can pay in trade or money.
Joyce Bowen, JEB31538@cs.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 00:08:13 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC
Message-ID: <000201bfb3a5$6551d220$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andy wrote:
> If it is taken off, then this is bound to have a negative effect on any
> investors who may be interested in putting money into the B7 Film project.
So those of us who would rather *not* see the film project get off the
ground have every incentive to keep quiet:)
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:39:35 +0200
From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: RCalla6725@aol.com
cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
Message-Id: <200005011839.TAA29389@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Don't you think it can sound a bit twee and contrived though? Worst of all is
> the time-travel episode of Star Trek - where the crew go back to 1967.
Ah, but it can be well done. I happen to like Demolition Man partially
because of this reason. Stallone and others poking fun at themselves as
well as at society. Witness the radio station that plays top ten favorite
jingles...
steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:31:56 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC
Message-ID: <20000501213156.38908.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
After Andy wrote:
<If it is taken off, then this is bound to have a negative effect on any
investors who may be interested in putting money into the B7 Film project.>
Neil replied:
<So those of us who would rather *not* see the film project get off the
ground have every incentive to keep quiet:)>
Too true...I've been swithering between unselfishly (well, MY TV isn't that
long-range :-)) *wanting* the repeats to keep going for you people - at
least till Star One - and wondering if too much enthusiasm will get the film
(which I dislike the idea of more every time I hear about it, but that's
just me) really off the ground...
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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:12:12 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Looking for old rare zines
Message-ID: <20000502071212.B589@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, May 01, 2000 at 03:15:36PM -0400, JEB31538@cs.com wrote:
> I'm looking for the following old rare zines.
>
> Blake's Quest ....the Adventure Continues by Mark Lang
>
> For Blake's Quest I'll take the whole thing or any parts that you happen to
> have. I believe it had, at least, 14 parts. It's from Australia in the mid
> 80's.
I wonder if Mark Lang wrote that before or after "Prime Attack", and
if he has since learned what "decapitated", "triumvirate" and
"strategically" actually mean.
Kathryn "use the dictionary" Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Leylan: Still studying for your Commander's credentials, Artix?
Artix: Yes sir. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on old tubs
like... I... I mean...
Leylan: I know what you mean.
Artix: I'm sorry, sir.
(Blake's 7: Spacefall [A2])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:11:50 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <001801bfb3da$d642aec0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dana wrote:
> No matter how low an opinion Avon has of himself
But surely when he says "Of all the things I knew myself to be, I never
recognized the fool", that suggests that until that moment he's actually had
a pretty *high* opinion of himself.
I sometimes wonder if all this talk about poor ickle Avon being 'damaged'
and 'dysfunctional' isn't just a way for some Avon groupies to reconcile
their attraction to the man with the fact that behind the acerbic wit and
saturnine good looks he's really just another arrogant macho moron:)
> That's one of the many reasons why Avon has so many female fans--many of
us
> are fascinated by someone who has entirely abandoned the burden that
> being/trying to be nice places on us.
But I stopped being nice years ago, and I haven't got any female fans at
all:(
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:15:04 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Bounty"
Message-ID: <001901bfb3da$d8204860$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Richard wrote:
> Don't you think it can sound a bit twee and contrived though? Worst of all
is
> the time-travel episode of Star Trek - where the crew go back to 1967.
Well, one can posit a financial reason for that.... Yes, it can be twee,
but I think it largely depends on *how* it is done. ST doesn't need time
travel to be twee, after all. Or contrived, for that matter. The Star Cops
example of the 80s pop fan is neither, IMO. If nothing else, it suggests
that lack of taste will never go out of fashion.
If there's an ironic intent behind the time travel plot, then the RL present
day is the obvious time to travel to. Sarkoff's obsession with the C20th
is clearly intended to be ironic (it reflects on a misplaced adoration of
lost golden ages. Unless you think Tommy Steele really is an echo of a more
civilised age.)
What I would like to see, just for a change, is someone obsessed with a past
that hasn't happened yet.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:29:40 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: j_macqueen@hotmail.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <20000502112940.46051.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
"J MacQueen" wrote
>
>>Dana Shilling wrote:
>> >>Avon is a self-hating human being, in the same way that Alexander
>> >>Portnoy is a self-hating Jew
>
>What, then, is his complaint?
>
>Regards
>Joanne
Homosexuality and Judaism as 'complaints'? Hhhm - some re-wording required
there I think...
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:29:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000502131710.3340A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 1 May 2000, Neil Faulkner wrote:
> I sometimes wonder if all this talk about poor ickle Avon being 'damaged'
> and 'dysfunctional' isn't just a way for some Avon groupies to reconcile
> their attraction to the man with the fact that behind the acerbic wit and
> saturnine good looks he's really just another arrogant macho moron:)
I agree that Avon isn't damaged or dysfunctional. He's had some rough
times, and tends to supress a lot of emotion in favour of getting on with
the task at hand - emotion which occasionally breaks out in moments of
stress. This doesn't make him damaged, it makes him human. Normal,
functional people behave like this routinely.
Indeed, for all the talk of the great psychological wounds of our heroes,
I think it's mostly inappropriate. Blake _is_ damaged: his entire mind has
been systematically abused by professionals. It's a credit to him that he
copes as well as he does. The rest of them are sane people who have had
some difficult and stressful moments - with a couple of exceptions. Dayna
has had an isolated upbringing, and perhaps it's a lack of
childhood socialisation that makes her such a casual killer. It's also
possible that Soolin's easy attitude to killing is due to
(combat-related?) psychological damage. On the other hand, it could just
be shit acting.
Iain
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #124
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