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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 126
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
[B7L] Muir typos . . .
Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] BBC
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
Re: [B7L] BBC
Re: [B7L] favourite quotes
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
[B7L] Avon and Aliens
[B7L] Galaxy Quest
Re: [B7L] favourite quotes
Re: [B7L] NYC get together
[B7L] Brecht/Weill
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
[B7L] Old discussion on Hamlet, revisited
Re: [B7L] favourite quotes
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 07:33:10 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <391038A6.FAEE20A6@ptinet.net>
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Having followed this thread with varying degrees of amusement and
dismay, I'd just like to make the following observation: as much as
this argument purports to be about whether or not Avon is damaged,
it seems to *actually* be about whether or not Avon's cool, detached
nature is a *result* of damage. Those are not remotely the same issue.
Is Avon damaged? Are the others? I'd have to say absolutely yes.
I've never met an adult that wasn't damaged in some way, though
many aren't self-aware enough or brave enough to face it. Whether
Avon is aware of his own damage is yet another issue (my answer--
yes, but it doesn't haunt or even occur to him except in his bleaker
moments; in fact, he'd view that awareness as a strength, and despise
and mistrust those who believed themselves undamaged. He did seem
to understand and appreciate Mellanby's comments on blindness.)
OTOH, are Avon's cool, unemotional facade, his personal reserve,
his barbed wit a result or evidence of damage? Absolutely and most
emphatically not. Roughly half the population are cooler types who
prefer reason over emotion. Even within the cooler side of the spectrum
there is a range. Avon's right out at the end of the range, but it's his
natural state, not a result of damage or emotional barrenness. (In fact,
I'd be inclined to guess that a significant portion of any damage he's
accrued over the years is from being viewed as abnormal when he's
perfectly normal for his type. Hence the wry comments such as 'She is
more human than I am.') (The barbed comments are not nice, mind,
but they are normal.)
Neil wrote:
> I sometimes wonder if all this talk about poor ickle Avon being 'damaged'
> and 'dysfunctional' isn't just a way for some Avon groupies to reconcile
> their attraction to the man with the fact that behind the acerbic wit and
> saturnine good looks he's really just another arrogant macho moron:)
More likely it's the natural but IMO deplorable human tendency to
assume the self as a yardstick of normalcy. Therefore, if someone
acts in a particular way, they must have the same sorts of motives
the observer would have to have to exhibit that same behaviour. It
ain't necessarily so. I find the comments implying that Avon must
be some sort of alien or android because he doesn't display what
some people think of as 'normal' emotions deeply disturbing,
because they carry the implicit message that there is only one way
to be healthy or normal, which message can be extremely damaging
in its own right.
I'd like to discuss this from a Myers-Briggs perspective, but I'll put
that in another post, to avoid upsetting the penguins.
Pity I'm too tired to take you up, Neil, on that arrogant macho moron
remark ;-)
Mistral
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:08:48 -0700
From: "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Muir typos . . .
Message-ID: <00ba01bfb519$df370cc0$ddeeb5cf@flp1>
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After I finished my (too-long) review of John K. Muir's "History & =
Critical Analysis of Blake's 7," which Judith Proctor was kind enough to =
put on her website, I discovered that that are many more typos than I =
had noticed previously. (In his book, I mean.)
"Kairopan" becomes "Kairopon" and (symmetrically, perhaps) "Sopron" =
becomes "Sopran." "City at the Edge . . . " is translated into "City on =
the Edge . . . " Geela becomes "Neela." And so forth. Why didn't this =
man consult Neil's Sevencyclopedia??!!
And I don't think I gave a clear enough idea of how repetitive =
repetitive repetitive Muir is.
But there are some good things, too. Question is, whether they are worth =
the price of the book.
Best, Ann
abasart@dnai.com
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#c0d0d8>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>After I finished my =
(too-long) review=20
of John K. Muir's "History & Critical Analysis of Blake's =
7,"=20
which Judith Proctor was kind enough to put on her website, I discovered =
that=20
that are many more typos than I had noticed previously. (In his book, I=20
mean.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>"Kairopan" =
becomes=20
"Kairopon" and (symmetrically, perhaps) "Sopron" =
becomes=20
"Sopran." "City at the Edge . . . " is translated =
into=20
"City on the Edge . . . " Geela becomes =
"Neela." And=20
so forth. Why didn't this man consult Neil's =
Sevencyclopedia??!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>And I don't think I =
gave a clear=20
enough idea of how repetitive repetitive repetitive Muir =
is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>But there are some good =
things, too.=20
Question is, whether they are worth the price of the book.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Best, Ann</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:abasart@dnai.com">abasart@dnai.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 06:07:27 +0100
From: "DragonFly" <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
Message-ID: <003201bfb586$a7b40060$d942883e@oemcomputer>
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What are everyones favourite quotes?
????
julia-loughborough
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:48:51 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <001201bfb528$0ce02a40$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Ellynne wrote:
> I'd say Avon is at least partly damaged. He has an emotional reserve
> that seems to go far beyond normal, healthy levels and seems capable of
> going through considerable difficulty to maintain it.
This might be the point on which our divergent appreciations of Avon part
company so widely. To me, Avon is flat out normal. That is, emotionally he
falls well within the spectrum of normality. I'm not sure I would call him
'emotionally reserved' at all. Indeed, he's really quite animated compared
to some I've met.
> This somehow creates a mental image of Neil prefering stories where they
> skip through sunlit psyches saying "Hello trees, hello birds," which must
> be a complete misrepresentation of reality.
Dont get me on that agane my dere hem-hem
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:15:29 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC
Message-ID: <001101bfb528$08186900$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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> >Neil replied:
> ><So those of us who would rather *not* see the film project get off the
> >ground
>
> And Sally said...
> >Too true...I've been ......wondering if too much enthusiasm will get the
> film
> >(which I dislike the idea of more every time I hear about it, but that's
> >just me) really off the ground...
Prompting Gnog to ask
> Why ?
Different fans relate to B7 in different ways. Check out Una's q-sorts. I
suspect that those fans who appreciate the series in its entirety, as a
self-contained subcreated universe, are those most likely to be horrified at
the thought of any more B7 being made. Such fans are those who are most
likely to have constructed their own coherent or near-coherent
reconciliation of all the anomalies and contradictions within the existing
canon, which is now regarded as closed and finite. A new movie, or an
entire new series, would open it up and tear that delicate coherence to
shreds (just as nearly all fan fiction does). The two radio plays certainly
don't set a terribly promising precedent.
OTOH, fans who just love the characters and don't give a toss about the
background would love a new movie, so long as it handled the characters
correctly. The prospect of beloved characters being mangled, however, might
turn such a fan against any new production.
That's how I see it, anyway. But it would need other people to speak up -
for or against the putative movie - to show if there's any correlation with
the different q-sorts.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: 03 May 2000 19:36:30 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
Message-ID: <86aei7h6xt.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>> "DragonFly" == DragonFly <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> What are everyones favourite quotes?
Servalan: "While there's life, there's threat."
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"Our five main weapons are Invincible Ignorance, Not Invented Here,
FUD, derision, wild-eyed ranting, ad hominem attacks, straw men, and,
and...oh bugger." -- Joe Bednorz, A.S.R
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:06:57 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC
Message-ID: <004e01bfb532$d4675fc0$9a86bc3e@orac>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
>
> B) what I've heard of the projected story-line (Avon's been
> basically propagandising for the federation since GP)
> I hate, because (for me and me only) it would be hard
> enough to imagine him, having killed Blake, to spend
> *twenty years* basically helping to destroy any meaning
> Blake's life might have had.
I was listening to the latest "Together Again" tape last night and Paul was
answering a few questions on the movie. Whilst obviously he couldn't give
away the plot, what he did say about it did not correspond to this
story-line. He was describing a situation where Avon has been in a sort of
Napoleonic-style exile for twenty years and has been forgotten then suddenly
he is active again. Or something like that anyway, I was well down a bottle
of wine by then so I will
need to listen to that bit again.
Julie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:52:52 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] favourite quotes
Message-ID: <001101bfb58c$fcf31060$8aee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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>What are everyones favourite quotes?
>
>????
>julia-loughborough
There isn't a volcano alive that would dare to swallow Avon. (Vila in
Volcano.)
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:21:00 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <000601bfb596$c7c101e0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Mistral wrote:
> Is Avon damaged? Are the others? I'd have to say absolutely yes.
> I've never met an adult that wasn't damaged in some way, though
> many aren't self-aware enough or brave enough to face it. Whether
> Avon is aware of his own damage is yet another issue (my answer--
> yes, but it doesn't haunt or even occur to him except in his bleaker
> moments; in fact, he'd view that awareness as a strength, and despise
> and mistrust those who believed themselves undamaged. He did seem
> to understand and appreciate Mellanby's comments on blindness.)
And though I have to grit my teeth whilst typing this, I agree with her on
every point in that paragraph.
>I find the comments implying that Avon must
> be some sort of alien or android because he doesn't display what
> some people think of as 'normal' emotions deeply disturbing,
> because they carry the implicit message that there is only one way
> to be healthy or normal, which message can be extremely damaging
> in its own right.
Can't really argue with that either.
> Pity I'm too tired to take you up, Neil, on that arrogant macho moron
> remark ;-)
Just my standard provocative flippancy to goad people into making fools of
themselves. One day it might even work...
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 07:45:53 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: calle@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
Message-ID: <20000504074553.89694.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> >>>>> "DragonFly" == DragonFly <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
> > What are everyones favourite quotes?
"I am not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going."
Avon (I watched Horizon the other day so it's fresh in my memory, but I've
always liked that one anyway.)
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 01:37:17 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <20000504083717.51814.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Mistral wrote:
< More likely it's the natural but IMO deplorable human tendency to
assume the self as a yardstick of normalcy. Therefore, if someone acts
in a particular way, they must have the same sorts of motives the
observer would have to have to exhibit that same behaviour.>
I don't think it's so much different ideas of what "normal" is as
(surprise!!) different ideas on what *Avon* is. We 'Avon groupies'
(Hi, Neil!) are very very lucky in that - as Chris Boucher said
somewhere, "(Avon) bad-mouthed a lot more than he actually did" - and
then we all get to decide for ourselves if he would too have done what
he was going to.
Avon's blackest impulses are usually sidetracked or stopped by
outside factors (the plot, Blake, etc). But given that (as I see it) ...
- he truly considered helping the London crew to murder the other
prisoners, and only stops because he works out that it *won't* get him
what he wants. He then tries to stop Blake surrendering to save the
others when Raiker makes it clear he'll kill the lot of them;
- he tries to stop Blake putting out that plague warning in Killer -
doesn't even *think* about the consequences of letting Servalan's
people taking the plague (it's an interesting point as to whether it's
worse to want to do it while aware of the consequences, or to be so
indifferent to others that their lives don't even *occur* to him);
- he is all for the destruction of Star One as long as *he* gets what
*he* wants out of it;
- he's severely miffed when the possible catastrophe at Auron (the message
that "they're al dying" interferes with his personal plans for revenge, even
though Cally is one of the few people he does care about;
- he's completely serious when he tells Tarrant not to interfere *in any
way* on Helotrix, that it doesn't matter if the entire population is being
slaughtered.
I think it's at least arguable that his level of unabashed
self-centredness goes beyond what I'd call normal (even in a society
like this one). Of course, someone who doesn't think he *would* have
done any of the above had push come to shove would have a different
viewpoint. But that's just interpretation of the ambiguous evidence of
canon, and we *all* expect that to range all over the place, don't we?
And as I said earlier, even this extreme level of self-interest is
over-ruled by his almost knee-jerk instinct against letting anyone
else trust him (it goes way past natural reserve when someone as
survival-centred as Avon lets it actually endanger his safety). And
then there's the few but fierce cases of commitment overruling even
common sense, let alone his survival instincts (again, there's Star
One, where he takes on the kamikaze defence of the same people he was
perfectly prepared to let die to suit himself, simply because one
other person - Blake - wants him too.)
Avon has a lot of good points, and more importantly, he's more than tough
enough to compensate for most of the less reasonable things that *something*
makes him do. But that doesn't mean that we can't speculate on what it is
that makes him do those things, and I'm with Ellynne, it's far more
interesting to assume that he's been made that way by circumstance than he
was just born, as I said, bloody impossible.
There's a whole range of 'normal' ways to behave - we all know that.
Vila I would call very normal, rather more so than Avon, even though IMHO
he's even more selfish and self-centred. He's far *less* likely to let other
factors illogically interfere with what he sees as central...
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:12:02 +1000
From: Andrew Williams <AWilliams@daikin.com.au>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <4103E830BB67D211877400A0247B635E34DE5C@dialup49.actonline.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain
> >Dana Shilling wrote:
> > >>Avon is a self-hating human being, in the same way that Alexander
> > >>Portnoy is a self-hating Jew
>
Joanne then asked
>What, then, is his complaint?
Avon's complaint was chilblains....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 03:11:18 -0700
From: Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Galaxy Quest
Message-ID: <20000504031118.X9362@zork.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
begin Murray quotation:
> P.S. Have you seen 'GalaxyQuest'? While the film is obviously based
> on Star Trek, mostly original series with a bit of The Next
> Generation, there is a scene where an alien is shooting the command
> crew of a ship in slow motion that reminds me of the episode
> 'Blake'.
Actually, it was Galaxy Quest that caused me to remember
Blake's Seven and begin the weekly viewings here in San Francisco.
Something about the early-eighties video effects in the mock TV-show
just brought back some of that feel.
And yes, there was a scene much like that at the end of Blake.
--
CrackMonkey.Org - Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
LinuxCabal.Org - Co-location facilities and meeting space
Pigdog.Org - The Online Handbook for Bad People of the Future
You are not entitled to your opinions.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 03:16:25 PDT
From: "Hellen Paskaleva" <hellen_pas@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] favourite quotes
Message-ID: <20000504101625.77102.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> >What are everyones favourite quotes?
> >
> >????
> >julia-loughborough
"Wisdom must be gathered, it cannot be given." - Zen, to Avon.
"... but stories of [Blake's] exploits are still circulating. They excite
people. The fact that he is still free gives them hope. And that is
dangerous, Travis. Hope is very dangerous." - Servalan, to Travis.
Hellen
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:05:58 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "Blakes 7 List" <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] NYC get together
Message-ID: <004b01bfb5c1$2eed9160$d9249ad8@cgorman>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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I'd love to! I'm based in Toronto, wouldn't take too long to get to NYC,
but money is too tight right now - I'm still awaiting landed status in
Canada after moving from the UK, so can't work yet. It would be good to
meet up with other fans. So if there are any other meetings later in the
year, let us know.
One of the problems living in Canada and not earning money.... I can't yet
buy a dual system video to play my UK B7 tapes! Arrgggh!
Steve
http://webhome.idirect.com/~cgorman/b7/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: <B7Morrigan@aol.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: May 2, 2000 11:22 PM
Subject: [B7L] NYC get together
> As a Yank, I know I am often a wee bit jealous of those enticing bar
> gatherings in London (a bit pricey commute for me).
>
> After finally meeting Dana Shilling face-to-face today, we discussed the
> possibility of arranging something in the US, on the Eastern Seaboard, in
> particular, New York.
>
> As Dana and I live in cities that orbit NYC, here's an open invitation to
> those in the tri-state area, or others willing to travel, to let me know
if
> you're interested in gathering at NYC bar/cafe mid to late May. It will
> likely be the Village or that vicinity.
>
> Trish
> formerly prmolloy@aol.com
>
> "Auron may be different, Cally, but on Earth it is considered ill-mannered
> to kill your friends while committing suicide."
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:45:41 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Brecht/Weill
Message-ID: <000501bfb5c6$aa68a500$74ae4e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sorry for getting the wrong show--thanks Harriet Monkhouse for providing the
correct information!
I can't help thinking that, if languages other than Standard still exist,
Avon really likes German--it takes ages to get to the subject of the
sentence.
Yesterday, I was listening to the "Solomon Song" from "Threepenny Opera"
which is my nomination for S4 theme song. All I have is the execrable
Blitzstein translation (which really gives an insight into fears for the TV
movie). The first two verses deal with Solomon, "who was the wisest man on
earth, and so he cursed the day of his birth...he knew that all was
vanity...so, not much fun had Solomon" and Julius Caesar, assassinated by
his friends "and all because Top Dog was he."
-(Y)
"I thought that having brains was good...guess not"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:44:21 +0200
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens
Message-ID: <7xY0viAVKWE5EwYm@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <000501bfb31e$1d41b720$e0604e0c@dshilling>, Dana Shilling
<dshilling@worldnet.att.net> writes
>That's one of the many reasons why Avon has so many female fans--many of us
>are fascinated by someone who has entirely abandoned the burden that
>being/trying to be nice places on us.
Quite. This INTx would *love* to be able to behave like that and get
away with it. Although this isn't just the blatant "treating everyone
else like morons"- it's also the refusal to conform with what the Es
consider to be acceptable social behaviour, based on their belief that
"normal" people desire constant social and emotional interaction.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:45:33 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125
Message-ID: <b6.4a2b372.2642d8fd@aol.com>
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In a message dated 5/3/00 11:08:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk writes:
> What are everyones favourite quotes?
Dr Havand (TWB) - "Reality is a dangerous concept."
Nina
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:27:48 -0700
From: "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Old discussion on Hamlet, revisited
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Hello all,
Mistral was interested in parallels between B7 and Hamlet. I sent her this,
and then thought some of you might be interested as well.
Best, Ann
abasart@dnai.com
>Here is an old discussion, part of which which I saved. About Hamlet and
>Blake, Hamlet and Avon:
>
>Rob suggested parallels between Blake and Hamlet which appealed to me
>greatly, since Hamlet is my favorite Shakespearean play. However I do not
>agree that the personalities of these two are the same, although their
>circumstances do bear some similarities to one another.
>
>Hamlet is a tragic hero. To be a tragic hero one must not merely be a
>participant in a tragedy, but be the character who could have resolved the
>issue had he not possessed within him one tragic flaw. In Hamlet this
tragic
>flaw is clearly present; his tendency to rationalise and ponder rather than
>take decisive action to challenge his uncle and kill him. Taking this
action
>would have resolved the entire situation, although of course it wouldn't
>have been much of a play.
>
>Although Blake is a complex character, he does not have this single flaw,
>and his death at Gauda Prime would not have been avoided simply by changing
>one facet of his character. It is precisely because of the changes which
>occur in him over the seasons of Blakes 7 that he is killed by Avon. His
>lack of trust, his unclear communication and his secretive manner with
>Tarrant, whom he knew was with Avon all contribute to his death.
>
>Blake is an idealist. He fights the Federation because it is wrong and
>oppressive, and to free the oppressed, drugged masses. He does not fight
for
>personal or selfish reasons (although he has reason enough to do so) but
for
>a cause, a greater purpose. We know this because he was a committed rebel
>even before the Federation killed his family
>"Four Years ago . . . there were many activist groups. But the only one
that
>really meant anything was lead by Roj Blake. You and I worked together. We
>were outlawed and hunted, but we had supporters and we were making
>progress." —Bran Foster, The Way Back.
>
>Hamlet is motivated in his task purely by revenge:
> "That I, with wings as swift
> As meditation or the thoughts of love,
> May sweep to my revenge"
> — Act I scene 4
>
>The wrong done to him and his father is personal, and nowhere in the play
is
>there any indication that Claudius makes a bad King, in spite of his murder
>of his brother. Hamlet hates him personally because of Claudius'
>relationship with his mother, and not due to any higher considerations.
Thus
>his motives are in a sense selfish, where Blake's are not.
>
>Hamlet also allows circumstances to rob him of the perfect opportunity to
>kill Claudius, either through a moral objection to killing on holy ground
or
>because he feels that this death would shrive Claudius of his crimes,
>allowing him into heaven.
>
> " Now might I do it pat, now he is praying:
> And now I'll do it . . .
> Why this is hire and salary, not revenge."
> "This physic but prolongs thy sickly days"
> — Act III Scene 3
>
>Blake is clear about his goals, and neither circumstance, not morals, nor
>the blandishments of his crew will turn him from them. For example Pressure
>Point where he will do anything to reach central control, even if he must
>act without his crew.
> Gan: "Do you think you can do it alone?"
> Blake "I'd rather not try. But if I have to I will not be alone."
>In this remorseless purposeful pursuit of his goal Blake is more
reminiscent
>of Laertes, the son of Polonius and brother of Ophelia. Laertes too has
>relatives to revenge.
> "And so have I a noble father lost;
> A sister driven into desperate terms,"
> —Act IV Scene 7
>
>Blake's relatives are, coincidentally, almost the same:
> "Your mother and sister are both dead . . . they were executed four years
>ago just after your trial" —Bran Foster, The Way Back
>Laertes's pursuit of his vengeance against Hamlet goes against all the
moral
>imperatives of the time, he is indeed prepared
> "to cut his throat I' the Church."
> — Act IV Scene 7
>
>Blake's reaction to Cally when she questions the moral rightness of their
>actions echoes this single-mindedness, the willingness to do any deed to
>reach the desired goal.
> Cally: "Many, many people will die without Star One."
> Blake: "I know."
> Cally: "Are you sure that what we're doing is justified?"
> Blake: "It has to be . . . .We have to win. It's the only way that I can
>be sure I was right."
>
>If any Blake's 7 character is similar in nature to Hamlet then it is Avon.
>Hamlet's wish to avoid his destined role to resolve his father's murder is
>most reminiscent of Avon's resentment of his involvement in Blake's cause.
> "The time is out of joint; O cursed spite,
> That ever I was born to set it right"
> — Act I, Scene 4
>
>Also, Hamlet is a scholar who could have been crowned King once his father
>died (probably would have shortened his lifespan by a gnat's whisper!) but
>instead wishes to return to university:
> "For your intent
> In going back to school in Wittenburg"
> —Act I Scene 2
> which reminds me strongly of Avon's study of the sopron in "Harvest of
>Kairos."
>
>The strongest similarity between Avon and Hamlet comes in their reaction to
>killing an innocent bystander. Avon, in "Stardrive," is directly
responsible
>for the death of Dr Plaxton, but his cold, pragmatic attitude to her death:
> Dayna: "What about Dr Plaxton?"
> Avon: "Who?"
>is every bit a callous as Hamlet's words when, having just stabbed Polonius
>to death, he is disposing of the body:
> "this counsellor
> Is now most still, most secret, and most grave,
> Who was in life a foolish prating knave."
> — Act III Scene 4
>
>If we take Blake as Laertes and Avon as Hamlet, the finale of the play is
>most appropriate. After Laertes wounds Hamlet with the poisoned blade,
>Hamlet wounds Laertes with that same blade. Blake could be said to have
been
>responsible for Avon's death in some sense, since his lack of communication
>with Liberator had brought Avon seeking him. However, just as ultimately
six
>people die because of Hamlet's errors of judgement (Polonius, Ophelia,
>Laertes, Claudius, Gertrude, and Hamlet himself), Avon, ironically, is
>responsible for the same number of rebels killed at Gauda Prime (Blake,
>Dayna, Vila, Soolin, Tarrant, and Avon himself), also through errors of
>judgement. —Jenni
>
>Hope this is of interest,
>Ann
>abasart@dnai.com
>
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:14:22 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] favourite quotes
Message-ID: <000301bfb5ee$6d11f300$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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>What are everyones favourite quotes?
>
>????
>julia-loughborough
BLAKE: People collect odd things.
JENNA: Look what you ended up with.
**
AVON: It's a pity we can't all be as reliable as Zen.
CALLY: But I thought you were:)
**
CALLY: I'd quite like to be famous too. How about the woman who killed
Bayban?
**
SOOLIN: Something useful?
AVON: Guns.
SOOLIN: Something useful.
**
VILA: I'll get you for this, Tarrant. I'll tear your arm off and beat you
to death with the wet end.
**
AVON: One down, one to go.
**
EGRORIAN: Do you know the quote? No, of course you don't.
**
Neil
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #126
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