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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 151
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Orbit
Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
Re: [B7L] New crew (was Terminal (was Sarcophagus))
Re: [B7L] Orbit
[B7L] I have to confess...
Re: [B7L] Orbit
Re: [B7L] Orbit
Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
Re: [B7L] Orbit
[B7L] Blake's Back
Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Re: [B7L] Re: reviews/ages/SCHOOL & stuff
Re: [B7L] City at the Edge of the World
Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Re: [B7L] Orbit
Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
[B7L] Model of Avon and possibly Blake
Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Re: [B7L] Orbit
Re: [B7L] Orbit
[B7L] Gareth in Dr Who
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:38:10 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <393604D0.EA97B46E@ptinet.net>
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Just for the sake of playing the game, you understand, I shall
attempt to plug a few plotholes...
Me/Ellynne:
> > Ah, but it takes a certain amount of fuel to land safely, as well.
> > Perhaps they were past that point by the time they realised
> > they couldn't lose enough weight.
> >
> They nearly had enough to reach escape velocity. 75 kilograms on a ship
> that size - had to be at least a couple tons at that size, even if they
> used light weight future materials instead of herculanium (which seems to
> have been common in ships, given Dawn of the Gods, although Liberator
> obviously had an unusual percentage in the hull) - is next too nothing
Sure. But based on Egrorian's computer projection, they were nearly
at the edge of the atmosphere by then. The amount of thrust required
to push them into orbit _from that point_ could have been negligible
compared to the amount of fuel needed to fight the acceleration that
gravity would cause in trying to land.
> (actually, just to point out minor plot flaws, the amount of weight they
> need to eject would have been increasing as the shuttle flew. Every
> second they fly is more fuel burned up, leaving less to achieve orbit
> with. By the time Avon found Vila, throwing him off might not have made
> a difference.
True. But a specific weight was never quoted before the 70 kilos,
so the increasing amount before that can be ignored. Orac is surely
smart enough to calculate in a time factor for losing the weight.
> Given the time and distance suggested, I think they had enough to land.
> But I could be wrong. It also might make a difference what kind of
> gliding ability the shuttle had.... But Avon never even asked Orac about
> this option.
If you're talking about gliding in from the edge of the atmosphere and
saving the fuel for landing, even assuming the shuttle's fuel system
will allow for that, I simply don't think Avon's a good enough pilot.
I know someone who glided a bomber home across the Channel from
Germany during WWII; it was considered a remarkable feat, and he
was an expert. Gliding takes skill, experience, and luck--plus in that
kind of descent you'd have to compensate for the acceleration. I might
accept Tarrant has that kind of skill and experience--not Avon.
Mistral
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:16:58 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
Message-ID: <39361BF9.690A5A8A@ptinet.net>
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Ellynne/Sally:
> <Actually, there might be more potential angst here than over the whole Anna
> Grant thing.>
>
> Yes, the problem with the Big Romance of the Series is that we only see them
> together in one scene in one episode, and while there is lots of angst,
> there's not much chemistry between the two actors (IMHO). Even if I don't
> see the Avon-Cally romantic thing (friends, yes. Anything more, sorry), they
> do have a far more *real* connection that we've watched on screen, and he
> does care about her, a lot.
Yes, there's some angst potential in the A/C scenario Ellynne
has painted, but not IMO more than with Avon/Anna, and here's
why: Avon's big fear is betrayal (and perhaps secondarily, loss).
Trusting the wrong person. It's *not* having failed to trust
someone that might have lived up to his trust. With Anna, you
have the ultimate betrayal, the greatest possible manifestation
of his fear; with Cally you would have failure to trust, but that's
the price one pays for Avon's brand of self-protection--a regret
only, not on the level of pain caused by opening up to someone
and then being stabbed in the heart.
> Notwithstanding that I do think he is - in some ways - closer to and more
> comfortable with Vila - I have to say Cally is the *only* other one of the
> entire Liberator/Scorpio crews I can even imagine him going to Terminal for
> (and I'm still dubious, but with Cally there is that maybe).
I really don't think he'd choose certain death for anyone but Blake
and Anna, but he'd certainly take considerable risks for Cally; the
thing that *might* tip the odds in her favour is that he'd know that
she'd go to Terminal for him.
Mistral
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:48:34 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] New crew (was Terminal (was Sarcophagus))
Message-ID: <39361551.67B90738@ptinet.net>
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Alison wrote:
> Jessica (hello to the list Jessica) said
> >>there is often a definite divide between new crew and old crew, episodes
> like Volcano and Ultraworld where Dayna and Tarrant work on one thing and
> Avon, Vila and/or Cally do another.<<
> Completely agree with you about that. I know there are a couple of us who
> see it as rather a generational thing. Vila and Avon and Cally are just
> older and more battered by life than Dayna and Tarrant. I think the cast on
> both sides of this divide do an excellent job of portraying this.
Generational is a good word for it. In Volcano, I do think there is
an undertone of Avon seeing if Tarrant and Dayna are going to
earn their keep, but after that, yes, generational. Though Dayna
and Tarrant have vastly different styles. Tarrant does seem to be
trying so hard to fit in, to make himself a place, to demonstrate
his superior qualities--of course I really don't think he gets there
until Terminal, though he has nice moments here and there--while
Dayna really doesn't try at all, and fits in without difficulty.
It's one of the things I like about Dayna, this complete confidence
that she belongs on Liberator. No worries about Avon saying,
'where shall we drop you off?', no tentative behaviour, no phony
niceness. She really *listens* to Avon and the others, and then
makes up her own mind, makes suggestions without issuing
challenges (right from the beginning--I assume Obsidian was
her idea), and though she behaves as if Avon is the leader, has
no difficulty disagreeing with him--and manages to do so, for
the most part, without making him angry. I suppose partly it's
her straightforward nature, partly because Avon invited her
along, and partly because she has no agenda apart from having
vengeance on Servalan.
Mistral
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:07:53 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <39360BC8.FE76FDF9@ptinet.net>
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More lovely plotholes to play with...
Nina wrote:
> If they hadn't wasted so much time and fuel, they should have
> been able to get the shuttle down safely. IMHO, that's a rule that
> *especially* the most inexperienced pilots should stick to. I could
> understand Jenna or Tarrant trying to tough it out, but not Avon - he knows
> his limitations as a pilot.
This is a bit backwards, isn't it? Along with takeoff, landing is the most
difficult and dangerous part of flying; and we haven't ever seen Avon
take off or land without a flight computer (Zen/Slave). Jenna or Tarrant
might be able to land, but Avon might rightly feel he had a better chance
trying to achieve orbit, particularly if you consider what was waiting on
the surface--Egrorian, Servalan, and inhospitable conditions (one crack
in the hull and they're dead from the atmosphere.) Case in point--in
Games, Tarrant chooses to orbit the simulator rather than trying to land
it with damage.
> It also has always bugged me that Avon (and Orac, too) seem to completely
> ignore the process of logical deduction in identifying the problem! They had
> already made a safe trip to Scorpio and back to the planet in the *same*
> shuttle, so obviously something had been added while they were on the ground.
Not so obvious. Orac didn't say the shuttle was overweight, just
that the flight configuration made orbit unattainable. Their first try
at fixing things was to switch the shuttle to manual--looks like Avon
thought the shuttle had been programmed to crash. Another possibility
would be that the shuttle hadn't been fully fueled. Even when they
start stripping the shuttle, Avon is talking about a lack of engine
power, not additional weight. Since their flight path would be a
combination of thrust, weight, and angle, there's no immediate
reason to assume the problem is weight, as opposed to one of the
other two.
Mistral
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:19:40 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, freedom-city@blakes-7.org
Subject: [B7L] I have to confess...
Message-ID: <4e.6499a87.2667a0cc@aol.com>
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...this was what we were doing on Memorial Day Weekend, instead of
MediaWest*Con. Can't say which I would have enjoyed more. It would have been
an awefully close contest.
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/anniecwpack/legacy.htm">Images of Legacy
2000</A>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:15:36 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <00a901bfcbcb$8cd174c0$a7249ad8@cgorman>
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<mistral@ptinet.net> wrote :
> If you're talking about gliding in from the edge of the atmosphere and
> saving the fuel for landing, even assuming the shuttle's fuel system
> will allow for that, I simply don't think Avon's a good enough pilot.
> I know someone who glided a bomber home across the Channel from
> Germany during WWII; it was considered a remarkable feat, and he
> was an expert. Gliding takes skill, experience, and luck--plus in that
> kind of descent you'd have to compensate for the acceleration. I might
> accept Tarrant has that kind of skill and experience--not Avon.
Actually, gliding from the edge of the atmosphere isn't supposed to be too
difficult, if the design of the shuttle is correct. Your right, getting a
W.W.II Bomber to glide for a long time would be extremely difficult because
of its relatively short wingspan. Most areoplanes will produce a glide
ratio of 10:1 - every 10ft travelled forward, you drop 1ft. Real gliders
with huge wingspans, giving them much higher glide ratios (50:1), can stay
in the air for a very long time riding the thermals and the pilot doesn't
need that much training. The NASA Space Shuttle spends most of its descent
just gliding in, because of its design and there are a number of new
satelitte launch systems in progress which glide back to Earth like the
Space Shuttle. But with the design of the shuttles in B7, these things were
basically bricks with small wings - definitely not gliders. I agree that
Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet with
a stormy, violent atmosphere. These things would need to be flown in. If
Avon was in a decent shuttle design he probably could have done a controlled
glide landing.
Steve Dobson.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:32:48 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <000801bfcbe7$486c3c40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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Steve Dobson said -
>Actually, gliding from the edge of the atmosphere isn't supposed to be too
>difficult, if the design of the shuttle is correct...<but> I agree that
>Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet with
>a stormy, violent atmosphere.
Those on the list who are as old as me will know how resonant the phrase
're-entry corridor' is - do you remember waiting to see whether the Apollo
astronauts would be able to get back down to Earth through the atmosphere?
That has permanently impressed on my mind how dangerous atmospheric re-entry
can be. Orbit was only - what? 10 years after that.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:17:26 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Message-ID: <008201bfcbf2$69f2b0a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Dana wrote
> OK, I'm in trouble if the FBI Serial Killer Profiler Unit is reading this,
> but I really do want to know for purposes of creating fanfic rather than
> eliminating droves of people. For the various weapons shown in the series,
> what exactly happens when someone gets shot by one of them? (Well, I can
> figure out "stun.") That is, what kind of injuries could be expected in
> terms of blood loss, fractures, burns, neurological damage, size of exit
> wounds, etc., and what is the time frame for getting treatment for the
> injured person?
If it's for fanic, then the simple answer is "Whatever the plot demands."
Next to no details were given on the function of all the various weapons in
the series (check out the entry for 'Weapons' in the Sevencyclopaedia, on
Judith Proctor's website).
The people massacred in The Way Back sprouted little squirts of flame before
falling to the floor - this, combined with the lack of any knockback from
impact, might be taken to indicate a laser (assuming that a portable laser
could be developed with sufficient power to be lethal - contentious, but
Belkov does refer to laser rifles in Games, and laser was one of the modes
for the Scorpio clipgun, as cited by Dayna in Rescue).
Damage effects is a humungously big field - you could try hunting down a
dictionary of forensic science, that should include a lot of info on gunshot
wounds. But the only predictable thing about combat damage is that it is
unpredictable. Some people go down after being just grazed by a bullet,
others carry on without even knowing they've been shot. The potential for
the human body to survive incredible amounts of injury is amazing - various
individuals have survived being shot point-blank in the head, or having
their throats slit, despite hours or even days without any medical
attention. I read once about a boy who had his arm torn off by a passing
truck - he picked it up and carried it to the nearest hospital. If the
story needs someone to defy the odds, then s/he can be allowed to.
Unless the story really needs specific info, you can probably talk around
it. Even if you do need technical info, you can often make it up by
couching it in terms specific to the milieu - characters can swap medical
banter that means something to *them*, even if the specifics are lost on the
reader.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:40:16 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
Message-ID: <3936216F.BAFABB97@ptinet.net>
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Sally wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> <Yes, I agree, there does seem to be a special relationship between Avon and
> Vila,>
>
> There is <g> - I call it a Mutual Disparagement Society, which is as near as
> I can get to the right flavour.
Oh, that's cute, that is.
> Takes a while to click in (Bounty is where I
> think it starts really working) but it's quite wonderful to watch. They've
> no illusions about each other - the mixture of respect (for each other's
> skills) contempt (for each other's characters) and genuine liking is unique.
For me the key to understanding Avon's relationship with Vila is that
Vila's acceptance of Avon is unconditional--yes, Vila sees Avon's
flaws, but he doesn't really care; Vila lives in the moment, anyway,
so unless Avon is causing Vila problems *right then*, Avon's flaws
are irrelevant. Vila never tries to get Avon to change, to do the right
thing, to be noble--to be someone he's not--which is likely appreciated
by Avon, after what must have been a lifetime of people trying to get
him to conform to their idea of 'nice' (I think the main reason Anna
appealed is that she was clever enough to give Avon a good imitation
of this kind of unconditional acceptance.) And then there's the mutual
respect for each other's expertise, which, along with Vila's nimble
mind (and shared hobbies--theft and games) give Avon an excuse
he can live with for having a Delta for a friend--Vila's not just any
Delta, he's Avon's Very Special Pet Delta ;-) which is perhaps why
Avon's always bragging on Vila when he's not around.
They're so cute together :)
Mistral
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:24:47 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <002a01bfcbf6$bf90e280$60249ad8@cgorman>
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Alison Page added...
> >Actually, gliding from the edge of the atmosphere isn't supposed to be
too
> >difficult, if the design of the shuttle is correct...<but> I agree that
> >Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet
with
> >a stormy, violent atmosphere.
>
> Those on the list who are as old as me will know how resonant the phrase
> 're-entry corridor' is - do you remember waiting to see whether the Apollo
> astronauts would be able to get back down to Earth through the atmosphere?
> That has permanently impressed on my mind how dangerous atmospheric
re-entry
> can be. Orbit was only - what? 10 years after that.
Checking back over the episode, the shuttle never makes it past the
atmosphere. They are still part of the atmospheric distubances of the
planet. With calmer weather and a better design of the shuttle a glide path
in would have been attainable. But then they have to decide where to land.
They would have needed a long landing strip and some form of undercarriage.
I think all the shuttles I saw in B7 relied on vertical takeoff/landing.
Steve Dobson.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:14:10 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Blake's Back
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0601081410-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Sheelagh Wells wrote to me today to say that she's had several enquiries
recently for Blake's Back (the first Together Again tape featuring Paul Darrow
and Gareth Thomas, which is currently out of print).
If there's a few more people interested, then she'll do a short duplication run,
but she really needs to know in the next couple of weeks.
If you would want a copy (and it is a really enjoyable tape which I highly
recommend) then write to Sheelagh Wells, 20a New Rd, Brentford, Middlesex, TW8
ONX
Or you can e-mail me (as long as you include name and address) and I'll print
them out and pass them along to Sheelagh.
If you want to know more about the tape, there's a review on
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Look in the merchandise section.
Judith
PS. There were a few people last year interested in a new run of Liberatored,
but not quite enough to make it viable. If a second run of Blake's Back works
out, then Sheelagh might look into Liberatored again.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:28:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0601082830-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 31 May, Dana Shilling wrote:
> OK, I'm in trouble if the FBI Serial Killer Profiler Unit is reading this,
> but I really do want to know for purposes of creating fanfic rather than
> eliminating droves of people. For the various weapons shown in the series,
> what exactly happens when someone gets shot by one of them? (Well, I can
> figure out "stun.") That is, what kind of injuries could be expected in
> terms of blood loss, fractures, burns, neurological damage, size of exit
> wounds, etc., and what is the time frame for getting treatment for the
> injured person?
<grin> You use exactly the same rule that the script-writers did. That of
dramatic necessity.
ie. A good trauma team could have saved Blake and there is one available
withing the necessary distance *if* your plot requires it.
Good guys always get shot in teh shoulder (nothing fatal injured) or in the leg
(dramatic limp requiring assistance)
Bad guys generally die first shot regardless of weapon used. Their chance of
survival increases with rank.
Apart from that, practically the only data we have is a small burn mark on the
chests of some (but not all) of those shot by Federation weapons. (this was a
pre-watershed programme)
If you need a particular dramatic effect, invent a new weapon.
whatever we do know about weapons in the series can be found on
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 in the Sevencyclopaedia. Look at the entry for
weapons.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:53:27 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: reviews/ages/SCHOOL & stuff
Message-ID: <000001bfcd98$7f50fb80$f574073e@leanet>
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From: Julie Horner <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
>From: "Nic Mayer" <phuzt@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
>
>> I've also been lurking for a bit. To read the messages, right click on
it,
>> then press the details tab, click on message source, and it will all be
>> there.
>
>Oh hurrah Nic and thankyou!! Finally I can read the messages
>sent by Nick Moffit.
>
I am pleased for you Julie. Didn't work for me though, so I still rely on
people replying to Nick's comments.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:47:16 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] City at the Edge of the World
Message-ID: <20000531.184842.-88215.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Wed, 31 May 2000 12:43:30 EDT RCalla6725@aol.com writes:
> I've never seen this episode before - does the title intentionally
> rip off
> the Star Trek one? (City at the Edge of Forever)
>
Well, sort of.
ST had a planet once inhabited by an incredibly advanced race.
B7 had a planet once inhabited by fairly advanced race.
The ST race was dead or gone with no forwarding address.
The B7 race showed up regularly for camp outs and get togethers.
THe ST race left a doorway in time and space, capable of going all sorts
of interesting places (and with a few serious design flaws, if you ask
me).
The B7 race left a doorway usually going nowhere (and with a few serious
design flaws, if you ask me).
ST had one of its least threatening characters lose it, get off the ship,
hide so the others couldn't find him and beam him up, and go through the
door.
B7 had one of its least threatening characters lose it from fear, dump
his teleport bracelet so the others couldn't find him and teleport him
out, and go through the door
ST had a subplot dealing with Nazis (known for their black gestapo
uniforms) taking over the world.
B7 had a subplot about heavily armed psychos (wearing black) trying to
take over a world, at least for a little while.
The ST crew comes for their friend.
The B7 crew considers coming for their friend.
(Spoiler ahead, be warned)
In ST, Kirk meets a woman on the other side of the doorway and has to
decide whether to literally trade the future for a life with her. He
makes the nobler choice.
In B7, one character meets someone and has to decide between a future
with said individual and a life of unrestrained kleptomania. What
choice?
No, no resemblance between them at all. The titles are just a
coincidence.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:14:02 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
Message-ID: <20000601.192635.-88517.2.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:40:16 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>
>
> Sally wrote:
>
> > Steve wrote:
> > <Yes, I agree, there does seem to be a special relationship
> between Avon and
> > Vila,>
> >
> > There is <g> - I call it a Mutual Disparagement Society, which is
> as near as
> > I can get to the right flavour.
>
I've always loved the description "a man and his dog" (although Vila
always struck me slightly as a dog trying (unsuccessfully) to pretend he
was a cat). The phrase kind of captures the friendly with no illusions of
mental equality aspect of their relationship. Not to mention Avon's
constant efforts to make sure Vila didn't forget who was leader of the
pack. But then, Avon was probably raised by a pack of wolves anyway....
Ellynne
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:25:40 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Message-ID: <20000601.192635.-88517.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:17:26 +0100 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
writes:
> Dana wrote
> > OK, I'm in trouble if the FBI Serial Killer Profiler Unit is
> reading this,
> > but I really do want to know for purposes of creating fanfic
> rather than
> > eliminating droves of people. For the various weapons shown in the
> series,
> > what exactly happens when someone gets shot by one of them? (Well,
> I can
> > figure out "stun.") That is, what kind of injuries could be
> expected in
> > terms of blood loss, fractures, burns, neurological damage, size
> of exit
> > wounds, etc., and what is the time frame for getting treatment for
> the
> > injured person?
>
> If it's for fanic, then the simple answer is "Whatever the plot
> demands."
>
[Big snip]
With one minor exception (my pet peeve). If you chop off a major limb or
have the character do some major bleeding, please, try to remember the
need for major arteries being properly pinched closed through the injury
or through the quick thinking of one of the characters and their
tourniquet.
I once read the rather vivid account of a nurse dealing with some major
injuries in a wilderness area with no help for days, and it made a
permanent impression about how people can keep going despite incredible
injuries - so long as they don't lose all their blood. If you go with
lasers, bleeding should be limited and most wounds would be automatically
cauterized (which has made me wonder about how useful they are as weapons
compared to bullets, but no doubt the armor stormtroopers and even
Federation guards wear must be good for something since percussion
weapons are so rarely seen).
Ellynne
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:47:09 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
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On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:07:53 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
> More lovely plotholes to play with...
OK, here comes the detailed defense for "could they have landed?"
First, my tape of this ep comes from one of those bad transmission
nights, so I don't really know what the shuttle looked like (It happened
a lot. I'm still irked about not knowing Peri had a crab pin on until
she told Avon. Despite the fact it was the TV's fault, I still feel like
it was plot cheating). However, I've got a pretty good tape of
Deliverance, in which characters were able to land with reasonable (if
not fantastic) expectations of survival in what were basically described
as two over-sized bullets. Now, those were designed, I'm sure, with at
least some safety features (air-bags?), which the shuttle may not have
had. All we know for certain is the tachyon funnel (which didn't have a
seat belt) was expected to survive with only minor damage (although the
less than brilliant soul who came up with this trap said he'd anticipated
Avon and Vila realizing it was a trap, having the funnel tossed out the
rear door wasn't considered [hard to say if he was lying or not, since
the shuttle was still in trouble]). Since the funnel didn't look that
tough, I have to assume some sort of safety features.
Second, Avon and Vila didn't seem that far along into the flight before
they found out there was a problem. A great deal more time seemed to be
spent throwing things off and hunting for Vila.
Third, the time Avon spends looking for Vila would be less critical if
they were still early on in the flight, if I remember the math covering
this sort of thing correctly (which I may not). That is, if they cover
90% of the remaining distance in that time period, a lot more weight will
need to be jettisoned to cover the remaining 10%. OTOH, if they had
covered only 10% of the remaining distance, the weight amount will still
be greater, but not nearly as much.
It _might_ have been too late to land and the shuttle _might_ not have
been able to with either Avon or Orac piloting. But it _could_ have been
possible. Given the time factor, I would guess it _was_ possible.
But I could be wrong.
Just don't tell me Avon would have thought of it if it were. He misses a
lot of obvious thoughts in this one.
Ellynne
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:26:32 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
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On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:16:58 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>
>
> Ellynne/Sally:
>
>
> > <Actually, there might be more potential angst here than over the
> whole Anna
> > Grant thing.>
>
> Yes, there's some angst potential in the A/C scenario Ellynne
> has painted, but not IMO more than with Avon/Anna, and here's
> why: Avon's big fear is betrayal (and perhaps secondarily, loss).
> Trusting the wrong person. It's *not* having failed to trust
> someone that might have lived up to his trust. With Anna, you
> have the ultimate betrayal, the greatest possible manifestation
> of his fear; with Cally you would have failure to trust, but that's
> the price one pays for Avon's brand of self-protection--a regret
> only, not on the level of pain caused by opening up to someone
> and then being stabbed in the heart.
>
Good point. I _do_ think Avon generally feels a lot worse about the
whole Anna thing than he does about Cally. However, I was thinking Avon
might feel, since his actions had helped get Cally killed, _he_ was the
one who'd betrayed _her_. Depending on what was going on his psyche, a
scenario could be made in which he felt more intense about it than about
Anna (arguable, and I don't know which side of the arguement I'm on).
Then there's the cumulative factor....
Hmm.
I'll have to think about this.
> > Notwithstanding that I do think he is - in some ways - closer to
> and more
> > comfortable with Vila - I have to say Cally is the *only* other
> one of the
> > entire Liberator/Scorpio crews I can even imagine him going to
> Terminal for
> > (and I'm still dubious, but with Cally there is that maybe).
>
> I really don't think he'd choose certain death for anyone but Blake
> and Anna, but he'd certainly take considerable risks for Cally; the
> thing that *might* tip the odds in her favour is that he'd know that
> she'd go to Terminal for him.
Another good point.
I wonder what the aftermath would be if Cally had done something like
that and _had_ saved his skin....
If I remember right, this gets brought up somewhere in Blake's 7: The
Inside Story. Someone asked why, after Cally was killed, Avon didn't let
off some steam and admit that he'd loved her instead of holding it in. I
was expecting them to say something about Avon's feelings for Cally being
ambiguous, but whoever they asked said it was because the conversation
would have been, "I loved her and you people got her killed," bang, bang,
bang. End of fourth season.
I guess he could be that irrational. Maybe.
Still thinking.
Ellynne
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:40:52 EDT
From: JEB31538@cs.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, freedom-city@blakes-7.org
Subject: [B7L] Model of Avon and possibly Blake
Message-ID: <8.5c468e7.26686aa4@cs.com>
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I don't know where I've been that I missed that there was an Avon model
available. (I hope this isn't a weird joke that Proctor is playing on us.)
You can buy it as a kit, fully assembled, or fully painted via Judith
Proctor. Right now only Avon (it does figure!! ) is available.
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/MerchantModels/Index.html
Has someone else mentioned this on the list and I've missed it? I remember
that someone on one list was talking about it being a possibility about a
month or so ago.
Proctor said that if people show interest in other figures more will be done.
PLEASE go to the website and send an Email showing an interest in Blake!!
What I said was that I wanted Blake and that if a Blake were done, then I
would buy both the Avon and the Blake. There's no way I am spending money on
just an Avon.
I know some of you others have favorite other figures. Let's get Blake done
as a figure, and then decide who # 3 should be. Maybe it should be Vila
or Tarrant -- or perhaps Jenna or Cally.
I'm excited that finally something new in being done in B7 merchandise. But
I want Blake, too. Please go to the site and check it out. Do the Email
saying you want Blake---or if you honestly have some other character that
you want to be the second one done, then state who that is.
Joyce Bowen JEB31538@cs.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:40:46 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus)
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Ellyne said -
>Good point. I _do_ think Avon generally feels a lot worse about the
>whole Anna thing than he does about Cally.
There's so much to say on both sides. Just throwing one more idea in. Avon
is *changed* more - and more for the worse - by Cally's death than by
Anna's.
Let me rephrase that. Avon is probably changed hugely and dramatically by
Anna's first 'death' - when he thinks she dies during their escape. The
whole Avon personality of seasons 1-3 is influenced by that trauma I
suppose.
But of the two deaths in season 3, Cally's is associated with a bigger
change in personality. After RoD Avon is perhaps slightly mellowed if
anything. After terminal he changes very dramatically to become the series 4
'was he mad' Avon.
As Paul Darrow put it, after Cally dies, Avon had two options - if he had
felt normal emotions he would have rejected the whole Xenon base project,
blamed and killed the rest of the crew and given up at this point. As this
would have spoiled the story he had to go into the fourth season with
something other than normal emotions.
>Hmm.
>
>I'll have to think about this.
ditto
Ellyne also said -
> whoever they asked said it was because the conversation
>would have been, "I loved her and you people got her killed," bang, bang,
>bang. End of fourth season.
Yes, that was Paul Darrow who said it. Which I think shows that he didn't
just blunder into fourth season as some kind of macho unthinking action man.
Unless it's retrospective rationalisation.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:58:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000602095546.12849A-100000@bsauasc>
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On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Ellynne G. wrote:
> injuries - so long as they don't lose all their blood. If you go with
> lasers, bleeding should be limited and most wounds would be automatically
> cauterized (which has made me wonder about how useful they are as weapons
I'm not sure this is true. At any rate, I dimly recall reading something
about laser weapons which indicated that they wouldn't neatly cauterize
the wound. Rather, the sudden heating of the outer layers of the body
would cause them to explode, creating a very messy, but shallow wound.
Nice.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:43:51 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <393757A7.1EF24CB9@ptinet.net>
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Ellynne wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:07:53 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
> > More lovely plotholes to play with...
>
> OK, here comes the detailed defense for "could they have landed?"
<snip>
> It _might_ have been too late to land and the shuttle _might_ not have
> been able to with either Avon or Orac piloting. But it _could_ have been
> possible. Given the time factor, I would guess it _was_ possible.
It occurred to me while reading this post that I'd completely obscured
my own point--yes, it might have been possible to land the shuttle. But
it equally might not have been possible, or the more dangerous of the
available options, for the reasons I listed, among others. Therefore we
can't say 'oops--they should have landed, what a plot hole!'
It might have been tidier if Vila had said 'Why don't we land?' and
Avon had said 'Because....', but they didn't. It's up to us to figure
out the because. For me, if I say 'the writer goofed', that's cheating.
Which leaves (1) landing was impossible/too dangerous; or (2) Avon
and Vila didn't think of it. (1) strikes me as easier to build a
plausible
defense for. And certainly as plausible to say they couldn't land as
to say that they could.
Mistral
(Perhaps one day, I'll get Neil into the spirit of the game, and he'll
find a way to prove that Dawn of the Gods fits into canon perfectly.)
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:52:31 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <39374B9E.B3DD8DEF@ptinet.net>
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Steve Dobson wrote:
> But with the design of the shuttles in B7, these things were
> basically bricks with small wings - definitely not gliders. I agree that
> Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet with
> a stormy, violent atmosphere. These things would need to be flown in. If
> Avon was in a decent shuttle design he probably could have done a controlled
> glide landing.
You're right; I was assuming Egrorian's shuttle wasn't designed for
gliding; I should have said so.
Mistral
--
I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:50:35 +0100
From: "David A McIntee" <Master@allisurvey.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Gareth in Dr Who
Message-Id: <E12xp2V-000729-00.2000-06-02-11-50-55@mail11.svr.pol.co.uk>
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Specifically in one of the Big Finish audio CDs:
"Storm Warning" (January 2001): Written by Alan Barnes (editor of Doctor
Who Magazine), directed by Gary Russell. Paul McGann returns to Doctor Who
in the first of four stories as the Eighth Doctor; also introducing India
Fisher as Charlotte "Charley" Pollard and guest starring Gareth Thomas
("Blake's 7") as Lord Tamworth. "After a dangerous encounter in the
space/time vortex, the Doctor finds himself on Earth, October 1930. Or
rather above it, aboard the British airship R101 on it's maiden voyage over
France. Also on board is a young stowaway, Charlotte 'Charley' Pollard,
seeking adventure and excitement away from her stifling family atmosphere.
What Charley doesn¹t know but the Doctor does is that the flight is
destined to end in tragedy, although no-one really knows why. Not even the
Doctor, although maybe the passenger in Cabin 43 can help..." Also starring
Nicholas Pegg (Frayling), Barnaby Edwards (Rathbone), Hylton Collins (Chief
Steward Weeks), and Helen Goldwyn (Triskelion). Set around an airship
disappearance in 1930.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #151
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