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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 177
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Of Grants, Cops, Tangos and Valium (in no particular order)
Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Re: [B7L] Travis Dons White Hat? (was Re: crew)
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Re: [B7L] crew
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: [B7L] Travis Dons White Hat? (was Re: crew)
Flat Robin (aka Gods! Gods!) Update (was Re: [B7L] Posting
fanfic?)
Re: [B7L] Animals
[B7L] Re: RoD
Re: [B7L] Interesting food
Re: [B7L] Statuary (was RoD (was Animals))
[B7L] Re: RoD
Re: [B7L] Re: Crew, Models and Liaisons
Re:[B7L] Re: Crew, Models and Liaisons
Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
[B7L] Re: RoD
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:50:39 +0100
From: "Pat Sumner" <pat@freedomcity.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Of Grants, Cops, Tangos and Valium (in no particular order)
Message-ID: <004001bfdfe2$7d42dc80$d323883e@s5e8f3>
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Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net> wrote:
> I always wondered if Anna Grant was descended from Jo Grant.
> After all, Jo was an agent of UNIT.
It's entirely possible.
Another of their descendants, looking and sounding remarkably like her
husband Cliff (but with shorter hair)
was sitting Deeta Tarrant's Death Watch.
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
> Joanne, the happy event has now taken place; Steve rang earlier today to
> announce he'd managed to find two of the videos of Chris Boucher's Star
> Cops for me. Only one to go!
I'd be willing to bet (but not necessarily to pay up) that he found volumes
1 and 2.
Sally asked:
> Do we *all* have Valium episodes (as apart from just plain ones we don't
like?)
It seems that we do.
My valium episodes are:
Cygnus Alpha (apart from the exploring-Liberator-section), Time Squad (no
redeeming factors whatsoever),
and The Sevenfold Crown.
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
> If DotG featured Dayna and Cally doing a nude tango together I would still
> rate it as all-time worst episode. I'd just watch it a bit more often.
As Blake once said, 'What a disgusting idea!'
If you'd said Avon and Tarrant, well now, that's a different ballgame.
Pat
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:51:32 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Message-ID: <20000626.211014.-89663.3.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:17:26 -0400 "Christine+Steve"
<cgorman@idirect.com> writes:
> Ika replied
>
> > I am surprised it made it to the States, to be honest,
> particularly after
> what
> > happened to "Ellen".
Oh, please. Ellen (no relation) was dying in the ratings and used coming
out of the closet as a shameless ratings ploy, which was only briefly
successful as everyone soon noticed the show still wasn't funny and no
one could act. The show then whined it was losing viewers because it was
too controversial. I, for one, am so tired of Hollywood's definition of
"controversial," which frequently means finding something that offends
the viewers (usually bathroom humor too dumb for a five year old) but
nothing that would offend Hollywood's Powers That Be, followed up with
explaining how the show failed because it was "too cutting edge."
There's probably someone out there still ready to explain how the Gong
Show failed because it was too intelligent.
Please notice, we're talking the same Powers That Be that will probably
never make a show like B7.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:29:15 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis Dons White Hat? (was Re: crew)
Message-ID: <20000626.211014.-89663.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:52:06 EDT B7Morrigan@aol.com writes:
> Penny:
> > My first reaction was "No way, Jose!"...but then I think about
> "Hostage"
> > and how unbelievably open (considering the circumstances) Blake
> seemed to
> > the concept of co-operating with Travis. If Travis had actually
> been
> > prepared to negotiate at that point (I think he was just jerking
> Blake's
> > chain), I can see Blake taking Travis onboard.
>
> Sounds like an interesting fanfic plot...do go on, Penny
>
For what it's worth, let me add the one good deed (never shown in the
series) I have always suspected Travis did.
When he learns that the doctor who saved his life has been set up by
Servalan and is most likely already dead with his family about to be sold
into slavery, I always thought that Travis could have arranged to either
buy these three slaves or get someone else to do it. I know I have a
sentimental streak a mile wide, but it seemed like something he could do
fairly easily and that he would have had more than enough motivation.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:56:55 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <20000626.211014.-89663.1.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:07:25 +0100 "Una McCormack"
<una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> writes:
>
>
> Sally asked:
>
> > Okay - to throw a bit of taffy into the discussion - let's go the
> other
> way.
> > What are your favourite (or what you think are the best) episodes?
>
> Cue TOTP theme... In reverse order:
>
OK, I'm not going to number these, since I have trouble putting one I
like over another I like, but I love
Sarcophagus - the opening was the only weakness for me (I'd missed the
opening credits the first time I saw it and thought the show had been
replaced with something weird) but it grows on you once you know the
context. For the rest, wonderful stuff for Cally and Avon fans, Tarrant
gets some great bits (though I can really see how the role would have
been stronger played by an older man when he and Avon have their little
alpha male contest going), Vila's wonderful. Even Dayna, although she
gets short shrift, has some wonderful character moments. I especially
like the bit where she tells Avon even he needs sleep. It seemed to
capture so much of how she saw him when they met, how she sees him now,
and how she knows he sees himself.
Blake - Sure, it's the ending. There's a lot of other stuff, but that's
what made the episode.
Rumors of Death - the irony, the Avon characterization, the angst, the
infinite speculation.
Countdown-See the above
Terminal-See the above, see also Blake, the Teddy Bear, and Servalan.
Star One - Everything just works in this ep, and it works _so_ well.
Aftermath - weaknesses certainly, but I love the whole interaction
between Avon and Servalan.
And (I know I'm the _only_ person who'll say this) Dawn of the Gods,
mainly because I saw it late and night and apparently hallucinated a
whole back story that makes sense of it.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:16:17 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Message-ID: <20000626.211014.-89663.2.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:22:04 +0100 "Alison Page"
<alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Why do I always end up contributing to threads with titles like this?
> (don't
> answer)
>
> Neil -
>
> >I think, in hierarchy-subversion comedy, the
> sympathetically-portrayed
> >underdog serves the purposes of the ruling class.
>
> So - 'the people must be entertained'. But when it boils down to it,
> the
> subversive and the dangerous is just a bit more entertaining than
> the
> wholesome and constructive. Comedy kind of walks the line between
> being too
> boring and being too 'interesting' (ie getting banned)
Interesting, since this form of Greco-Roman comedy dates from a time when
the _really_ dangerous stuff was off limits in drama (I'm unclear whether
it was from a public policy shift or a shift in the public's tastes), no
Lysistrata stuff or Trojan Women. But there's also the long standing
tradition of the trickster in folklore or the jester in real life.
Shakespeare lived in a rather dangerous time (producing the wrong play
could get you sent to the hangman) but still wrote (quoting from memory
and probably getting it wrong), "There is no slander in a licensed fool
though he do nothing but rail." Jesters and fools were supposed to act
as some kind of social safety valve, criticizing ironies in life and in
individual conduct but often from within a context of overall social
support. The slaves in the plays might come across as more intelligent
(certainly more effective) than their masters, but they won their freedom
(or usually did by the end of the play) by working within the system,
loyally helping a member of the family achieve his goals.
Beats me how these systems worked.
But, to get on topic, since I don't know that much about Cockney
stereotypes beyond Pygmalion (which, I gather, is rather subversive given
it's Shaw), so I can't say how Vila is or isn't one. It is interesting
that, like a licensed fool, the only power he really has is humor. He
uses it to defuse situations and turn aside danger as well as protect
himself. Granted, it's largely _unlike_ a professional fool, since it's
all very self-directed.
Avon, on the other hand, also uses humor defensively (and offensively)
but, unlike Vila, he's got a lot more to draw on once humor fails.
Seems like a potential analysis paper. Both Avon and Vila maintain their
social comfort by wearing masks.... Of course, Avon's isn't that much of
a mask. Except when it is.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:54:25 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <20000627075425.E23030@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 10:37:12AM +0100, Nyder wrote:
> traitor and ex-mercenary, a non-ex mercenary, and a young woman whose main
> hobby seems to be constructing explosive devices (Dayna as Ace
> avant-la-lettre? Discuss).
I would, if only I knew what "avant-la-lettre" meant.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:35:35 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Message-ID: <44.4e2f484.26897b07@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Ellynne wrote:
> There's probably someone out there still ready to explain how the Gong
> Show failed because it was too intelligent.
>
On the other hand, let's have half a dozen shows about people who want to be
millionaires. That's the power of broadcasting!
> Please notice, we're talking the same Powers That Be that will probably
> never make a show like B7.
Not the major US broadcasters anyway. Fox is a bit more daring, as is UBN,
and the cable channels have developed some decent independent programming.
Alas, nothing as wonderful as B7, though the Gong Show rivaled B7 for bad
sets.
Trish
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:37:35 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Message-ID: <a3.7c829d4.26897b7f@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Ellynne wrote:
> There's probably someone out there still ready to explain how the Gong
> Show failed because it was too intelligent.
>
On the other hand, let's have half a dozen shows about people who want to be
millionaires. That's the power of broadcasting!
> Please notice, we're talking the same Powers That Be that will probably
> never make a show like B7.
Not the major US broadcasters anyway. Fox is a bit more daring, as is UBN,
and the cable channels have developed some decent independent programming.
Alas, nothing as wonderful as B7, though the Gong Show rivaled B7 for bad
sets.
Trish
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:21:48 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] crew
Message-ID: <00dd01bfdff1$5dbddea0$79684e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Nyder weighs in:
> > Mind you, I wondered if Kasabi's daughter was going to join for a minute
> there, on the grounds that if they were going to replace Gan, it would
have
> been fairly shortly after he died. Small mercies, I suppose.
Too bad they made the series pre-Internet--they could have taken on
a bunch of people, then let the audience vote for one person to be
thrown out the airlock at the end of every episode.
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:35:15 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-ID: <00de01bfdff1$644acf80$79684e0c@dshilling>
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Jason de Rooy said:
> This got me thinking about the existance of more Travises/Travii/ Traves.
> If 'da man' had somehow survived 'Star One', I wonder if they would have
> gotten a new actor, who it'd have been, and where the character would have
> gone from there? Of course, he'd have to change again from S3 to S4, but
by
> then he may have been revealed as a Time Lord.
They could have a Travis of the Week (possibly assigned by lottery to anyone
with an Equity card who was interested--unless that WAS how they did the
casting)--which would lead to an interesting "Where's Waldo?" effect, since
anyone they encountered (wrapped up or not) might turn to be Travis.
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:35:49 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis Dons White Hat? (was Re: crew)
Message-ID: <00df01bfdff1$6ad639c0$79684e0c@dshilling>
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Quoth the Penny Dreadful:
>
but then I think about "Hostage" [...]
. Sure Travis has killed scads
> of Blake's personal friends and acquaintances in addition to oodles of
> strangers -- > By "Gambit"...you know I still can't say absolutely for
certain it could
> never happen.
>
> Discuss!
"On Earth, Travis, it is considered impolite to kidnap the relatives
of your prospective business partners"
-(Y)
PS--re Countdown--since when did any group of rebels not only have enough
of the readies to have uniforms made, but to hire a mercenary? The reward
for turning in the whole boiling must have been awfully small to be
appreciably
lower than Del Grant's fee.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:12:36 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Flat Robin (aka Gods! Gods!) Update (was Re: [B7L] Posting
fanfic?)
Message-Id: <4.1.20000626202802.0093f520@mail.powersurfr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:09 PM 6/26/00 -0400, Harriet Monkhouse wrote:
>We have had fiction here, and I now can't quite remember whether the Flat
>Robin ever finished? Probably it did, I just don't remember exactly how.
Arkaroo said he'd do the final chapter, what was that, about a year ago?
Says he's been busy. Swears he'll be done any day now.
Arkaroo says:
-------
22450 words so far.
Quotes: "Suddenly, I have a very bad feeling about our situation," said Avon.
"Just now you have a bad feeling?" said Vila as he plucked shards of
chandelier from his legs. "Your powers of premonition never fail to astound."
***
"Oh god oh god he's going to make a megalomaniacal speech," moaned Jenna.
***
"Hello, Sister," Blake gasped. "Care for a Lutefiskebab?"
-------
And there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth.
--
For A Dread Time, Call Penny:
http://members.tripod.com/~Penny_Dreadful/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:18:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: Betty Ragan <bragan@aoc.nrao.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Animals
Message-Id: <200006270518.XAA10657@zia.aoc.NRAO.EDU>
Back from vacation and busily making my way through a big batch of
digests...
Sally wrote:
> Do we *all* have Valium episodes (as apart from just plain ones we don't
> like?) I recall Betty saying that a possible convert fell asleep during TWB
> on her ...
Yes, fifteen minutes in, he said. Of course, he claimed it was his
fault for starting the tape around midnight, but as I regularly get
e-mails from this guy at 2 AM, I'm not quite buying that as an
excuse. :) Hmmm, he's coming to visit me in a couple of weeks... I
ought to tie him to a chair, prop some toothpicks under his eyelids
and make him watch B7 until he concedes defeat and becomes a Fan.
As for myself, I did have trouble staying awake through "Gold" a
little while ago, but I think that's because it was *very* late at
night...
--
Betty Ragan ** bragan@nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan
Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise.
"Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a
tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:31:35 -0600 (MDT)
From: Betty Ragan <bragan@aoc.nrao.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: RoD
Message-Id: <200006270531.XAA10832@zia.aoc.NRAO.EDU>
Weighing in with my two cents on "Rumours of Death"... Personally, I
rate the episode very highly, but when pushed I have to admit that I
like the *idea* of the episode a lot better than I like the actual
execution. The premise is great: wonderful angsty stuff that ties in
*so* well -- and so tragically -- with later events in "Blake." I
love the themes of deception and betrayal. But... No, Anna doesn't
do a whole lot for me. I don't see that as a *problem*, because I
don't think we see enough of her to make any good judgments about her
or her relationship with Avon at all. But, while there are some
really great things about the episode itself (Forres and Grenlee, the
"old wall," all the usual stuff everybody else has mentioned), it *does*
feel to me like there's something missing, something that the episode
should be providing that my imagination is having to provide instead.
But it's hard to put my finger on what... Maybe it *is* just that
there's not much chemistry between Avon and Anna, as someone else
suggested. I also think it might be that it's simply trying to do too
much in one episode: the plan to get Shrinker, the coup attempt, the
revelation about Anna... It's a lot to jam into a little over 50
minutes.
Oh, and, for statistical purposes, I suppose I have to mark myself
down in the Mad About Avon Camp. Even though I'd probably make rapid
tracks in the other direction if I ever really did meet him
face-to-face. :)
--
Betty Ragan ** bragan@nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan
Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise.
"Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a
tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:34:12 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Interesting food
Message-ID: <049f01bfdff9$e5e4efa0$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Joanne:
> >Harriet:
> > > It was my brother's idea, actually, about 30 years ago. Most of my
good
> > > ideas (like watching Blake's 7, for instance) originally came from
him.
>
> My brother also, though he doesn't remember doing so, had the idea that I
> should watch B7. No interesting food ideas have sprung from him, unless
you
> count the fact that it is possible to smell chocolate several rooms away,
> even when heavily disguised (I don't know what he keeps up those nostrils
> that does it).
My brother was the responsible adult who persuaded me to watch B7. Does he
have food foibles...? He would make a trifle and we would eat it watching
the show. I suppose that might count. Making trifles is not your average 18
year old boy's hobby.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:01:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: Betty Ragan <bragan@aoc.nrao.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Statuary (was RoD (was Animals))
Message-Id: <200006270601.AAA11447@zia.aoc.NRAO.EDU>
Ika wrote:
> > Good heavens. Now *I'm* going to start doing the same... though a
> > Michaelangelo nude struck me as, erm, more of a Krantor and Toise sort of
> > thing...
> >
> > Fiona
>
> It certainly made me rethink my opinions of Egrorian and his "golden-haired
> stripling"...
Well, there was also the fact that Egrorian didn't seem to be able to
keep his hands off of Vila...
Oh, wait. Which list are we on?
Oops. Never mind. :)
--
Betty Ragan ** bragan@nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan
Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise.
"Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a
tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:59:18 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: RoD
Message-ID: <20000626.235920.-445103.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Betty Ragan
<bragan@aoc.nrao.edu> writes:
> Weighing in with my two cents on "Rumours of Death"... Personally, I
> rate the episode very highly, but when pushed I have to admit that I
> like the *idea* of the episode a lot better than I like the actual
> execution. The premise is great: wonderful angsty stuff that ties
> in
> *so* well -- and so tragically -- with later events in "Blake." I
> love the themes of deception and betrayal. But... No, Anna doesn't
> do a whole lot for me. I don't see that as a *problem*, because I
> don't think we see enough of her to make any good judgments about
> her
> or her relationship with Avon at all.
Yes, I think this is the main problem. We know a lot more about her
brother. Was Anna a true revolutionary or just using those guys? Did
she have an intelligent plan or was it all what we saw? What was her
relationship with her husband? What did Avon _think_ was her
relationship with her husband? And how had that relationship changed,
leading up to the moment she kills him? What, for that matter, was
Chesku's relationship with Servalan? He's one of her close friends and
(apparently) toadies - but he also fears Anna will get them killed by
her. It seems like a fairly blunt assesment for someone who was putting
together a boot-licking speech the moment before. What were _Chesku's_
true feelings? And, back to Anna. How did she act around Avon and how
much of it was the real her?
Given a choice, I know I would prefer the Anna Avon knew to be a fairly
compotent person - and I think there is evidence he likes compotent
women. OTOH, his whole angst thing seems based on Anna's vulnerability
(to be fair, I think Avon is a little prone to believing he should be in
control of everything going on in his life, hence other people's ability
to control those things is frequently discounted by him). Her almost
Piri-ish lines in the flashbacks could be colored by Avon's memory - or
context could make them completely different (after all, if Avon had ever
actually fallen for Servalan and joined up with her, I can imagine her
saying something like this is a deliberately coy,
I'm-just-a-helpless-little - thing way [although Avon's answer would have
been "No," after he finished laughing]).
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:05:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Betty Ragan <bragan@aoc.nrao.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Crew, Models and Liaisons
Message-Id: <200006270605.AAA11489@zia.aoc.NRAO.EDU>
Harriet wrote:
> Somebody round here (could it have been Betty?) once had the rather
> wonderful idea of putting DS9's Garak on the Liberator. Whoever it was,
> get on and write the story...
Yes, 'twas I. I *do* think it's a wonderful idea, but I'm still
wishing somebody else would write it so I don't have to!
--
Betty Ragan ** bragan@nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan
Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise.
"Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a
tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:33:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: Betty Ragan <bragan@aoc.nrao.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re:[B7L] Re: Crew, Models and Liaisons
Message-Id: <200006270633.AAA12017@zia.aoc.NRAO.EDU>
Minnie wrote:
> Oh this promises to be really quite interesting!! <rubbing my hands together
> in glee>. Definitely in front of the queue for this one. <VBG> I think Garak
> would be terribly amused by the trouble they get themselves into.
Oh, gawd. [Buries head in hands] I may just *have* to write this, if
only because I can't get out of my mind the idea of Garak giving Avon
fashion advice. (Or the *interesting* tension that would surely
result if Avon ever found out just what Garak used to do for a
living. Or Garak's reaction to finally finding people as amoral as
he is...)
But, damn it, the problem is I can't write plot to save my life...
--
Betty Ragan ** bragan@nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan
Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise.
"Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a
tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:10:28 EST
From: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Message-ID: <20000627071028.38445.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
> > I always find it rather poignant that comedies in highly hierarchical
> > societies subvert the hierarchy, and sympathise with the underdog. While
>in
> > real life slaves and deltas and thieves are the scummest of the scum,
>and
> > afforded no sympathy at all.
Neil replied:
>I think, in hierarchy-subversion comedy, the sympathetically-portrayed
>underdog serves the purposes of the ruling class. He can expose the
>contradictions of the ruling class' ideology without actually threatening
>that ideology. He is not portrayed as an enemy of the status quo, rather
>an
>observer, and since his observations come from the bottom of the ladder,
>they
>can be discounted as any advocation of meaningful change.
Like a court jester?, allowed to make jokes about and ridicule the king
because he was not seen as anything other than an idiot paid to make a fool
of himself.
>Basically, he
>allows those at the top to laugh at themselves in safety, and then go home
>and carry on doing everything they've been laughing at all evening.
>A close relative of this observing underdog is the 'cheeky cockney' type,
>from which the character of Vila is derived. He is usually justified in
>terms of providing comic relief, but this glosses over the essential nature
>of the Cheeky Cockney's cheeky nature. His (or her) humour in adversity is
>not there to provide relief in adversity, it is an essential survival trait
>for someone to whom adversity is the norm. The Cheeky Cockney, such as
>Vila, is a perversion of this need, created by and for those who are
>unaccustomed to such extremes of adversity. They need the Vilas to justify
>their perpetuation of the dire situations they themselves have created.
>Vila, like Lurkio, reasserts the validity of the status quo, by pulling
>back
>from the full implications of its horrific entirety.
Umm, I'm a little confused. Are you saying that "The Cheeky Cockney" is
needed to reassure the priveliged classes that being poor is really quite
dandy (and with lots of singing and dancing) or do you mean that the lower
classes themselves need this image to reassure themselves that they are, or
should be happy?
Thanks.
Jessica
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:19:11 EST
From: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Message-ID: <20000627071911.82166.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Neil wrote:
I thought Volcano was pretty crap, mainly because it was written by Allan
> > Prior.
Ika responded:
>But... but... Allan Prior is Maddy Prior's father!! And Maddy Prior was in
>Steeleye Span!!
Oh My Gosh, you're kidding? Her father, wow small world I guess.
Jessica
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:58:12 +0100
From: "Isobel Gordon" <isobel@ussenterprise.ndo.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Message-ID: <00a401bfe005$cd03cd60$233029d4@gillyworld>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Neil:
> >He is not portrayed as an enemy of the status quo, rather an
> >observer, and ince his observations come from the bottom of the ladder,
> they
> >can be discounted as any advocation of meaningful change.
Alison:
> But is wit a weapon you can disarm like a bomb? They might think it's
safe,
> but is it?
Early modern carnival is a case in point. It entertained through
subversion, with cross dressing, street parties, peasants as lords of
misrule etc. As Ellynne said it works like a safety valve. The ruling class
frequently joined in with street parties as if they were the same as the
lower classes. The carnival did on a number of occasions lead to riots and
major uprising, so despite the upper class
patronage, true subversion was never that far away.
If only I could remember this stuff in my exams...
Izzy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:19:58 +0200
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Message-ID: <Ft77Y+Aez6V5Ew3g@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <010c01bfdf9b$2cb445c0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>, Neil Faulkner
<N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>If DotG featured Dayna and Cally doing a nude tango together I would still
>rate it as all-time worst episode. I'd just watch it a bit more often.
That's about how I feel about red leather tight enough to tell his
religion, although I'm not sure about *worst*. Worth watching with the
sound turned off, and one finger over the fast forward button for most
of it and another over the slow motion button for the good bits.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:48:37 +0000
From: Murray <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
Message-Id: <l03110701b57e24f60435@[134.226.96.44]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dana,
>Helen & Gnog on one side of the issue, Murray on the other:
>I agree with H&G that Liberator should have had a larger
>crew--there are damn few missions that can be effectively
>carried out with only six, much less with five, people--I
>particularly like the "Hostage" effect--"Gee, they must be
>in trouble, let's go down and see"--sort of like dropping all
>the cutlery in the kitchen down the sink in an effort to fish
>something out of the drain.
>
>Since they all had to sleep sometimes (and most of them
>eight hours a night) there should have been at least two or
>three shifts of seven people--one to stand watch, one to
>monitor the teleport, three to make planetfall directly into
>a bunch of guys with guns, and two to sneak up behind
>G w/g and rescue the other two.
I don't think that we are on opposite sides; all of us appear to believe
that the Liberator should have had a larger crew. First, as you mentioned,
in terms of effectively carrying out missions and running the ship; second,
in order that crew deaths wouldn't have had as much of an impact as they
did in the series; and third, to ensure a stronger ideological base. I
don't know why Blake didn't consider the possibility that, if he was
killed, captured, or left, a larger, more motivated crew would be more
willing to carry on the fight.
What I find interesting is who of the original crew would stay or leave if
Blake embarked on a drive to recruit more ideologically motivated people.
Cally would certainly stay, as her ideological motivation would be the same
as the new crewmembers; Jenna would probably stay, due to her personal
loyalty to Blake; and Gan would stay for the same reason that he was a
member of the original crew.
Vila _might_ have stayed, depending on how he was treated. If the new crew
started giving out to Blake about him being a lazy sod and who looked down
on him because he was a petty thief, then he would have left. Avon, in my
opinion, would certainly have left. What do people think?
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 02:34:39 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: RoD
Message-ID: <20000627093439.38050.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ellynne wrote:
< Given a choice, I know I would prefer the Anna Avon knew to be a fairly
compotent person - and I think there is evidence he likes compotent women.
OTOH, his whole angst thing seems based on Anna's vulnerability (to be fair,
I think Avon is a little prone to believing he should be in control of
everything going on in his life, hence other people's ability to control
those things is frequently discounted by him).>
She might well have been (I may have a low opinion of the planning of the
coup, but she did get further than a lot of people - including me - would
have). Avon does show a strong (if narrowly focused) protective streak, and
at least two of the crew members who seem to inspire it most strongly really
aren't what you'd call fragile or vulnerable - Dayna Mellanby and Roj Blake
...
<Her almost Piri-ish lines in the flashbacks could be colored by Avon's
memory ->
Somebody lent him rose-coloured glasses, and they really *do not* suit him
<g>. Those flashbacks are really rather silly, but they're all we've got.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:24:24 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <20000627102424.18078.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Okay, my turn (since it was my idea). Prior warning - oh, you all *know* my
biases by now <g> In series order (because I can't rank them really) ...
Redemption. Glorious A-B stuff, with the very *best* portrayal of Avon for
my tastes (he's snarly, impossible, infuriatingly cagey with information,
clever, incredibly protective of Blake [thrice in one episode!!!] and gets
some terrific lines.) Blake giving lip to Ugly Authority (and getting
what-for by Unamused Authority <g>); the cell scene with Jenna and Avon;
Avon apologising to Vila (!); Roy Evan's short but moving part as the slave.
The battle scenes are good, everyone else gets good lines too (I loved
Vila's "if it ever comes to a showdown, my money's on Blake. Well, half of
it. I'll put the other half on Avon." And that utterly yummy stand-off at
the end.
Shadow - that first shot of the crew on the Liberator deck always makes me
sit up - they all *look* so gorgeous in this one (except Cally, but then
that's our Cally). And it's a wonderful plot with razor-sharp dialogue.
Blake's magnificently pig-headed *and* defensive - I've got this theory he's
looking for a less violent (if morally grubbier) way than the looming attack
on Control. This is for my money both Cally's and Gan's best episode;
Jenna's shady past gets a nod; Vila behaves abominably, but it's hard not to
empathise with his kid-locked-out-of-the-candy-store bit; Avon wavers
wonderfully between cynicism, distaste and loyalty (the harshness of his
"there's nothing you can do for Cally. Even shouting at everybody else is
not going to help her," belied by the gentleness of his voice.) Largo is
wonderfully vile, and I like Bek and Hanna. Great stuff - probably my
favourite.
Pressure Point - I don't *care* how many corridors there are. I love it.
Blake's patented imitation of a calmly reasonable herculaneum battering ram;
the church ruins (I love ruins, so sue me); Avon being deeply suspicious,
being proven *right* to be extremely suspicious, and still totally unable to
let Blake go to hell by himself, getting quieter and more watchful as they
get closer and closer to disaster; Kasabi; the minefield scene, which I
*love* (pity, however, that they cut Gareth/Blake being picked off his feet
and flung into the hedge. That wouldn't been fun to see); Avon flinging
himself into Gan's arms, then saying 'thank you' soooooo beautifully to
Blake; endlessly wondering what happened when Avon went back for Blake and
Gan ... and (in case you think I've forgotten) the bit where Blake goes down
on his knees, absolutely devastated, and Avon is right there beside him. My
Darling doesn't have much of a bleeding heart, but 'tis lovely to see when
we do (and boy, does he make Blake pay next episode for seeing it <g>)
Star One. The very Last Flight Deck Fight (well, the last one worth watching
<veg>), with Avon savaging Fearless Leader and everyone else in his path
(then twenty minutes later being calm and forthcoming when talking
minefields); Durkin - I *like* Durkin; Servalan's coup; "they would be
difficult to love"; Vila's utter, endearingly blatant self-centredness on
display ("let's run for it") and Jenna's tough pragmatism; Cally and Avon
hovering (so I'm sentimental, sue me again); the green goos are fun; every
second of the final scene, *especially* Blake and Avon's final moments. And
despite the fact that they're fighting the Kitchen Front, I still get a
tingle at Avon's "fire!"
Terminal. Tarrant's best episode for my money, despite the fact that he gets
a walloping of the ego that would leave most of us reeling, he's really
rather good in this one, and very likable. Zen's death (and Michael
Keating's wonderful playing of the scene); Servalan's smug little
henchwoman; the intensity of that short scene with Avon and the faux-Blake,
and Avon's reaction to Servalan saying that Blake is dead ... that final
smile.
Honorable mentions to Time Squad (the *first* Flight deck Fight, and the
start of the complex thread of trust, suspicion, friendship, fighting and
everything else); and Blake (there may be plot holes, but for sheer impact,
those final few minutes have no equal. And Gareth is utterly terrific.)
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 05:42:26 -0600
From: The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
To: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <20000627054226.A7737@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 07:54:25AM +1000, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 10:37:12AM +0100, Nyder wrote:
> > traitor and ex-mercenary, a non-ex mercenary, and a young woman whose main
> > hobby seems to be constructing explosive devices (Dayna as Ace
> > avant-la-lettre? Discuss).
>
> I would, if only I knew what "avant-la-lettre" meant.
avant-la-lettre == after the letter.
>
> --
> _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
> / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
> \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
> v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
> ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
> Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
>
--
God Queen and Country Member - Liberal International
Never Satan President and Republic This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
Society MUST be saved! Republics must dissolve.
HEy Hey USA - call for a referendum to dissolve your nation and dissolve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:06:35 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
Message-ID: <007101bfe038$98d2b780$72069ad8@cgorman>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Murray asked :
> What I find interesting is who of the original crew would stay or leave if
> Blake embarked on a drive to recruit more ideologically motivated people.
> Cally would certainly stay, as her ideological motivation would be the
same
> as the new crewmembers; Jenna would probably stay, due to her personal
> loyalty to Blake; and Gan would stay for the same reason that he was a
> member of the original crew.
>
> Vila _might_ have stayed, depending on how he was treated. If the new crew
> started giving out to Blake about him being a lazy sod and who looked down
> on him because he was a petty thief, then he would have left. Avon, in my
> opinion, would certainly have left. What do people think?
I'm not sure about Avon. I think he had a lot of plans which involved the
Liberator and was determined to get his hands on it. He might have hung
around long enough to see how the new recruits worked out - in the hope they
would do what he wanted and all troop back to Earth to lead a revolt. I
think he can be very patient with regards to the Liberator.
Steve Dobson.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:25:54 +0930
From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <010a01bfe03a$57aace80$354c18cb@marina>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Sally asked:
>>
>> > Okay - to throw a bit of taffy into the discussion - let's go the
>> other
>> way.
>> > What are your favourite (or what you think are the best) episodes?
>>
My favs are in the following order.
1. Aftermath - dont know why really, maybe because Avon gets two smoochies
and gets to floor Servalan.
2 The city at the edge of the world - Great Vila stuff. Should have been
more.
3. Sarcophagus - trippy. Love the feel to this one. (apart from the
wierdness at the start.)
4. Ultraworld - I just wanted Tarrant to accidently swap those tubes. <VBG>
5. Harvest of Kairos - Gotta love those spiders. <G>
6. Orbit - Creepy Avon. Creepy Egrorian, Creepy everything. <G>
7. Assassin - Three words. Slave auction and Avon!!! the stuff dreams are
made of. <G>
8. Blake - damn it, I want to hate this, but it was sooooooo damn good.
9. The web - Just for scaring the bejezus out of me when I was a kid.
10. Mission to Destiny - for all those wonderful bloopers. <G>
Min xxx
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:36:50 +0930
From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
To: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>,
"Lysator" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <010c01bfe03a$59918fe0$354c18cb@marina>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>Wendy wrote:
>I think Blake was totally crazy by that point and,
>whatever he thought, was too unstable to mobilize a
>viable resistance, so I don't think it would have made
>a difference to the resistance as a whole.
>
>Good point. He didnt really seem to have a very good plan. Why
question/test Scorpios crew when he knew who they were anyway??
Min.xxx
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #177
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