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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 181
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Translation, please
Re: [B7L] Valium episodes (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Re: [B7L] crew
Re: [B7L] Uncut "Rescue"
Re: [B7L] Allan Prior (was Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals)))
Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Re: [B7L] crew
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: Women we like
Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Fwd: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #176
[B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
[B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: Crew, Models and Liaisons (OK, it's mostly about Jarriere)
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Could Have Been Crew Members
[B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
The Books (was Re: [B7L] Julia Lawson)
Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna (was 'Blake' and beyond)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:17:01 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <000001bfe12a$72ca4d80$f11086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
> I'm with Min here. They were a thoroughly decent bunch of squeaky clean,
> middle class (even Vila) make-believe criminals with all the glam of being
> on the run from the law with none of the grimy banality that gets you
> running in the first place.
I'm *sort of* with both of you. One thing that I try not to think about too
much or my willful suspension of disbelief gets compromised is that these
people *are* explicitly stated to be criminals (so I stand by what I said
with regard to Blake's original crew consisting of a smuggler, a terrorist,
an embezzler etc) but that they are portrayed in, as you say, such a
squeaky-clean, middle-class sort of way that it's all glossed over. What
does Jenna smuggle anyway, if not drugs or weapons? Hairspray?
> Fiona alluded to the distancing that takes place in popular media between
> criminals and the crimes they comit. We certainly get this with Blake's
> bunch - a litany of crimes, but not of victims.
Which, as you say, would put another complexion on things. What about the
family of the guard Gan killed? Or of the various installations blown up by
Cally's lot? Did anyone lose his/her job or livelihood over Avon's caper?
And then when they all get started. How many parents in the Federation got a
letter beginning "Dear Sir or Madam, regret to inform you your son killed in
line of duty..."
> Listing victims would
> compromise the decency befitting a bunch of criminal heroes out for
> derring-do adventure.
As Rontane (I think) noted in "Trial," admittedly in another context.
> victims are fabricated and Blake himself is innocent.) The bad guys,
OTOH,
> produce victims by the score (literally in the first episode), and we get
to
> see them being gunned down mercilessly.
Last night, though, it occurred to me that even the villains get away fairly
cleanly. People are shot, not stabbed, strangled or bludgeoned to death;
torture is generally off-screen or bloodless; rape is surprisingly rare.
Which doesn't really measure up to reports of UN soldiers' behaviour in
Somalia etc. in the real world.
> them far more likely to get shipped off to Cygnus Alpha than the cuddly
> munch bunch that did sail on the London. As I once said in a Horizon
> letterzine - What did Nova do to get deported? Step on the President's
> hamster?
Spot on. Spot on!
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:17:02 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Helen Krummenacker" <avona@jps.net>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Translation, please
Message-ID: <004b01bfe12d$6b4c3e80$f11086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:25 AM
Subject: [B7L] Translation, please
> > (Dayna as Ace
> > > > avant-la-lettre? Discuss).
> > >
> > > I would, if only I knew what "avant-la-lettre" meant.
> >
> > avant-la-lettre == after the letter.
> >
> Which doesn't exactly tell us what it *means* since (to the best of my
> memory, I don't remember all the details from Dr. Who) there is no
> literal letter involved. Feels like an ORAC answer-- true information
> without an attempt to be useful. I would guess from the context it
> simply means that Dayna came before Ace, and they are both similiar, but
> how can Kathryn and I be sure that there is not some more important
> meaning implied?
See my own post. It means that she was a precursor to Ace-- like Ace but
before Ace came along.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: Ariana <ariana@ndirect.co.uk>, b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Valium episodes (was Animals)
Message-ID: <20000628182250.24294.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
--- Ariana <ariana@ndirect.co.uk> wrote:
> I second that. At least, I agree that Duel was
dreary, even though on the > whole I thought Stephen
Greif was a rather fine fellow.
I think he's the best Travis (though I don't hate
Brian Croucher, I just like Steven Greif better); it's
just that as a character Travis never did it for me. A
bit too much of a Sheriff of Nottingham figure, with
Servalan as Prince John.
>OTOH, I've only seen > series one, so my overview is
limited.
There's a lot of fun in store for you...
Wendy
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:24:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>,
Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <20000628182404.24492.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> What to do if Blake actually wins is a very tricky
question. Blake needs to > convince himself that what
he is trying to overthrow is SOOOOO bad that >
replacing it with something would actually result in
change for the better. > Perhaps it was a cultural
thing. Self rule over central rule. Free trade > over
managed distribution. Entrepenuership over regulation.
Small armies > beating each other up over large armies
beating the people up.
Tell me, did Blake *ever* actually have a coherent
political platform? I mean, once the revolution had
succeeded and the new regime in place, did he have any
idea what the new regime would do differently beyond
allowing democratic elections? It's occurred to me--
in parallel with another discussion going on here--
that Mugabe used to be a resistance leader.
Wendy
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Date: Wed Jun 28 19:25:36 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Message-Id: <200006281830.TAA22254@ns4.uk2net.com>
> Jessica:
> > Umm, I'm a little confused. Are you saying that "The Cheeky Cockney" is
> > needed to reassure the priveliged classes that being poor is really quite
> > dandy (and with lots of singing and dancing) or do you mean that the lower
> > classes themselves need this image to reassure themselves that they are,
> or
> > should be happy?
>
Neil:
> Neither, though there might well be some truth in both. The function of the
> Cheeky Cockney is, at least so I tend to think, to pull the ruling classes
> back from the brink of acknowledging their responsibility, by defusing the
> gravity of circumstance through the sanitisation of the grim humour that the
> ruled use to preserve their sanity. The Cheeky Cockney purveys a simple,
> earthy wit that can acknowledge the bleakness of the situation through a
> transparent irony that fails to pin any blame on those responsible for
> creating the situation in the first place. I would note, for example, that
> Vila's wit is never (IIRC) directed at Blake or his cause - that is left to
> Avon, who like Blake is a member of the ruling class, and hence in a
> position to criticise a social equal. There is no malice in Vila's humour,
> no deeply-felt resentment, which IRL would be there in truckloads. He's the
> prole who accepts his lot unquestioningly, validating the class hierarchy,
> because it's in the interests of the ruling class (represented in this case
> by the BBC) to portray the proles as knowing their place and sticking to it.
>
> Comrade Neil
>
Comrade, while I appreciate your analysis (as ever), I feel you are not taking
a properly dialectic view of the situation, since Vila works, surely, as both
the Cheeky Cockney who will deflect any effort to create an appropriate class-
based critique, and the Holy Fool whose subversive interventions in class
relations may go some way towards making the inequalities visible.
What's Blake's position on the class system, btw? Any opinions? And why doesn't
he try a bit harder to avoid replicating inequality within his cell?
Though at least he's not the one who makes Vila clean the sludge pit.
Love,
Ika
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: Jason de Rooy <jjderooy@hotmail.com>, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] crew
Message-ID: <20000628183345.26306.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com>
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Jason wrote:
> Let me put my vote in for a living Ensor too. In
fact, I'd rather have > Ensor than Orac. Imagine
Ensor down in a lab in the bowels of the ship,
coming up with clever devices every so often, like a
resistance version of Q branch...
> refusing regularly to help the crew, and complaining
over the intercom every > time the ship gets bumped
about in battle.
And insisting on side detours for "necessary"
equipment, having inconvenient illnesses, keeping
pets... the man would have been a walking plot
complication. Mind you, it would probably only be a
matter of time before the crew unanimously voted to
maroon him somewhere...
Wonder how he and Tarrant would have gotten on? Not to
mention Dayna, fresh from losing her father...
Oh, and IMO they didn't make enough of the fact that
Orac had Ensor's personality. Did Orac like goldfish?
Did it remember details of Ensor's life? Did it get a
bit frustrated being locked up in a box all the time?
Wendy
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:51:58 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Uncut "Rescue"
Message-ID: <iGgIkPA+HSW5Ewpk@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20000627142323.22147.qmail@hotmail.com>, Jurgen van de
Sanden <blakes7@hotmail.com> writes
>Does anybody know of any more cuts that were made?
The scene where Vila goes to crawl into a bottle and kicks a working
gun. In the broadcast version, he looks at the gun, and the bottle, and
it's very clear he's tempted to forget about the gun. The last couple of
seconds of that scene are cut on the tape, removing the implication that
he very nearly doesn't go to the rescue.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed Jun 28 19:44:09 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Allan Prior (was Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals)))
Message-Id: <200006281849.TAA25573@ns4.uk2net.com>
Nyder/Fiona:
> Funnily enough, I discovered Steeleye Span at the same time that I
> discovered Blake's 7, so the two have always been associated in my mind-- if
> I've been watching a lot of B7 I find myself having to go and put "Tempted
> and Tried" on the stereo. And vice versa.
>
> Glad to find I'm not alone in this. Anyone else seen a connection?
>
Only if you take Robin Hood as the common factor. And you probably don't want
to think about the noble thief just at the moment (sorry about that, btw. My
housemate took all my Playstation games except the one I was playing when he
moved out, which I would mind less if he had a Playstation himself, but it's
all going to go on Shadow, I'll be bound, so I too am less than happy with the
old redistribution of wealth atm. or at least my wealth.)
Love,
Ika
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:49:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Message-ID: <20000628184951.29344.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Neil wrote
> If DotG featured Dayna and Cally doing a nude tango
together I would still > rate it as all-time worst
episode. I'd just watch it a bit more often.
LOL
> Good moments do not automatically make for a good
episode,
But they do add up.
Wendy
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: Nyder <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>, personal@peter-b.org,
Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] crew
Message-ID: <20000628185321.3076.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com>
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Fiona said:
> > Mind you, I wondered if Kasabi's daughter was
going to join for a minute > there,
Oh, I can picture that-- the Wesley Crusher of the
Liberator. What an awful thought.
Wendy
Neil [sarcophagus, was rod was animals]
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com>, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <20000628185642.792.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
OK, my faves:
Sarcophagus (for the Avon and Cally bit mainly, but
the exploration of the crew's relationships is really
interesting)
RoD (Avon Avon Avon!)
Gambit (Can't think of a reason. It just all works
perfectly)
Aftermath (Best of the Dayna episodes; I wish she'd
kept that bow. Avon snogs Servalan, and the external
locations are lovely. Plus the cliffhanger ending!)
City on the... (Bayban is a great bad guy, and I still
think Kerrill is cool. Nice to see Valentine Dyall
again too)
Blake (the rest of you put my reasons more eloquently
than I ever could)
Wendy
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Date: Wed Jun 28 20:18:35 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Women we like
Message-Id: <200006281923.UAA27522@ns4.uk2net.com>
Neil:
> PS Do not trust the judgement of the one called Una. I once saw her pull
> some small change out of her pocket to buy a pint at the convention bar, and
> what came out with her coinage? Fish bones and black and white feathers,
> that's what. Oh, how shamelessly does evil flaunt itself in its arrogance!
>
Small change? To buy a pint? Why have I never been to a convention?
Love,
Ika
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Date: Wed Jun 28 20:17:07 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-Id: <200006281922.UAA27490@ns4.uk2net.com>
Neil:
[big snip]>
> I'm with Min here. They were a thoroughly decent bunch of squeaky clean,
> middle class (even Vila) make-believe criminals with all the glam of being
> on the run from the law with none of the grimy banality that gets you
> running in the first place.
>
> Fiona alluded to the distancing that takes place in popular media between
> criminals and the crimes they comit. We certainly get this with Blake's
> bunch - a litany of crimes, but not of victims. Listing victims would
> compromise the decency befitting a bunch of criminal heroes out for
> derring-do adventure. (Blake is the exception, though in his case the
> victims are fabricated and Blake himself is innocent.) The bad guys, OTOH,
> produce victims by the score (literally in the first episode), and we get to
> see them being gunned down mercilessly.
Very fair point - but bank fraud & smuggling may be pretty victimless, Blake
didn't do owt, (oh God, I'm having to count on my fingers. Brain dead today.
Um, that's three. Zen's a computer. Cally's a freedom fighter, so she doesn't
count. That's five), Vila - well, see the 'cheeky cockney' thread (we see him
steal loads of stuff but no-one ever seems to mind), and Gan is scary enough
when his Limiter goes wrong that I think you can *almost* count it as seeing
the victims.... (though admittedly no-one dies at his hands. But I still get
scared when he goes after Jenna.)
>
> Suppose Blake had had to crew his ship with the likes of Ted Bundy, Frankie
> Fraser, the Krays, Ian Brady and fifty squillion England supporters, all of
> them far more likely to get shipped off to Cygnus Alpha than the cuddly
> munch bunch that did sail on the London. As I once said in a Horizon
> letterzine - What did Nova do to get deported? Step on the President's
> hamster?
tee-hee!
But shurely the Federation does tend to deport people for very little reason. I
think the crew are a fairly good compromise between going for what we would
recognize as hardcore criminals, and just having a bunch of people who were
deported for subversive quilting (not just a joke, but I can't remember
where/when this happened - South America somewhere).
Love,
Ika
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Date: Wed Jun 28 20:35:26 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Message-Id: <200006281940.UAA29779@ns4.uk2net.com>
Ellynne:
> In fairness to the Doctor, Ace, Jo Grant, Dayna, and Avon (whew), neither
> Jo nor Dayna ever blew up a building because they were somehow sensitive
> to its evil, psychic leftovers (that we know of). If they had done this,
> we have no reason to believe the sensitivity came because they were
> somehow tainted by a demon out to destroy all life on Earth and into
> raising up armies of the undead. Finally, we have no reason to believe
> either of them met the Doctor or Avon because said demon set them up to
> do so.
Tainted by a demon? I missed this.
When did Tanith Lee start writing for Dr Who?
Love,
Ika
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Date: Wed Jun 28 20:37:45 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Fwd: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #176
Message-Id: <200006281942.UAA30371@ns4.uk2net.com>
> From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
> Hmm. A fanfic anthology based on AU stories, post- one
> canon epsidoe, but with character X surviving and added to the crew is a
> tempting idea. Are there enough people interested in doing this that I
> should volunteer to edit?
>
Me!
Love, Ika
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Date: Wed Jun 28 20:52:38 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Message-Id: <200006281957.UAA01058@ns4.uk2net.com>
[snip discussion of class - sorry, this was all interesting, but I'm tired]
>I'm a little more shocked at how little the
> females who were part of the regular crew did to assert themselves.
> Power isn't just divided on social class, but also gender. Servalan was
> the only female who habitually gave orders to males, and she was 'evil'.
> Justifying, fictionally, the real power difference between men and women
> in most of society.
Aha! True re: good women, but I hadn't thought of Servalan's evil in quite this
way before. I couldn't resist replying to this one because I've just given a
paper on "gender and ethics" (okay, okay, it was about Servalan). The way I
like to see it is that Servalan is a bad role model in terms of ethics, but a
terrific role model in terms of complete resistance to/subversion of
"femininity" (Children of Auron! Zelda sacrifices her life to nurture the
foetuses, Servalan is having none of that: if she's going to be a mother, she's
going to do it from a 'masculine' standpoint - technology and political power.
Aftermath! "We'd be answerable to no-one" - a feminist utopia?) Which makes
watching B7 very confusing for feminist-type spectators.... (She's great! No,
she's evil! Hang on, which side am I on again?) I don't think she's a
stereotypically evil woman at all. Any more than Blake (or Avon ;) is a
stereotypically good (nice) man.
With any luck the paper might be on the Web at some point for those who want to
read it, though I'll warn you now it's a bit jargon-y.
Love, Ika
Lov
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:08:19 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Message-ID: <15.5ccade1.268bb533@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
(She's great! No,she's evil! Hang on, which side am I on again?) I don't
think she's a
> stereotypically evil woman at all. Any more than Blake (or Avon ;) is a
> stereotypically good (nice) man.
>
Ika! What men have you been hanging with that make Blake and Avon look
stereotypically good? Shudder.
Morrigan (aka Trish)
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Wed Jun 28 21:37:00 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Message-Id: <200006282041.VAA02610@ns4.uk2net.com>
Right. Now in 'Harvest of Kairos' Jarvik, who distrusts all technology from the
scanners etc, implores Servalan to believe her eyes rather than the scanner
data and blow up the thing they can see on the screen. How can he justify this?
How does screen technology work? It can't surely just be a camera (where's the
light coming from?), more like some kind of imaging system like doctors have,
which needs interpretation (presumably by the computers themselves, to present
a readable image for humans on the actual screen) and is surely no more
trustworthy - being a form of technology - than the scanner data.
As you can tell, I really don't know what I'm talking about, but if anyone can
tell me how the screens work and why this visual imaging technology should be
any more trustworthy than the scanning technology, I'd be grateful.
(Also: can voice messages and images be transmitted faster than light in the B7
universe? How?)
Ta!
Ika
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:06:33 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <009701bfe138$313a8480$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com>
> Neil wrote:
> <Unsurprisingly, I prefer the episodes that offer something more
substantial
> than juicy Blake/Avon moments (the presence of any such in my faves is
> unfortunate coincidence).>
>
> <grin> I am so sorely tempted to say something like "yes, petal, *we*
> believe you ..." here.
Then you'd better believe it, because many of the recent posts here merely
confirm my theory that I saw a completely different series to many of you.
Avon "incredibly protective of Blake [thrice in one episode!!!]"? Yeah, er
... right.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:05:28 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Crew, Models and Liaisons (OK, it's mostly about Jarriere)
Message-ID: <AayO3PAIqlW5Ew8x@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Marcel-1.46-0627140745-bbaRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com> writes
>There are probably two things that any self-respecting slash fan should have in
>her collection. One is episodes 4 and 5 of 'Soldiers of Love' and the other is
>the entire series of 'Queer as Folk'.
>
When are you giving me back my tapes? :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:35:41 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <009901bfe138$350680a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Nyder <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
> Last night, though, it occurred to me that even the villains get away
fairly
> cleanly. People are shot, not stabbed, strangled or bludgeoned to death;
> torture is generally off-screen or bloodless; rape is surprisingly rare.
> Which doesn't really measure up to reports of UN soldiers' behaviour in
> Somalia etc. in the real world.
B7 was, of course, caught in the trap of being evening family entertainment,
so it had to follow the conventions of that time slot. In a way this worked
to the series' advantage, since it allowed the writers to allude to
something darker and more realistic without splattering it all over the
screen (which can be very effective, but also tends to be defused by its own
over-indulgence). There were pretty strict limits on how graphically death
and violence could be portrayed. Being science fiction probably gave the
programme a bit more leeway, but only up to a point. I get the impression
that Terry Nation wanted to dip his toes in dark waters but was too hesitant
to do so too often, while Chris Boucher had far less reluctance. Most of
the others didn't seem to want to even bother.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:20:15 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <009801bfe138$32bb0a00$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> Structurally, intellectually, 'Trial' is a classic. But that bloody
alien...
> I think it's an example of trying to do something beyond the capacity of
the
> show. And that mars 'Trial' for me. For something to be the best of the
> best, it has to know its format and use it.
I rather like Zil, as a failed-but-worthy attempt to portray something
genuinely alien rather than go down the easy ST latexhead route. Pushing at
the limits and getting knocked flat is, in some ways, more laudable than
playing safe.
> > There's also Thania, who definitely had the
> > Best Boots in the entire series.
>
> Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair
> <handbag>
I didn't notice any spots but then I wasn't looking at her chin:)
> Did you see 'Star One' on first transmission, Neil?
I did actually. Saw them all first time around except The Web (which was no
great loss).
> I wonder if I would love
> it more if I had seen it then. Again, it's got all the things you list
(and
> my absolute favourite Liberator flight deck scenes: one at the start, one
at
> the end, which both *crackle*), but you run into them damn crappy aliens
> again.
The aliens themselves are ok. It's Those Ships, but you can't see them all
that clearly (wonder why...), and the music and and sense of denouement and
everything stomps all over their visual limitations.
> > Terminal - bleak bleak bleak bleak bleak
>
> Hmm. 'Dull dull dull dull dull' is usually what springs to mind. Actually,
I
> think there's also an element of not being able to bear it. It's the same
> reason that I can't reread 'The Last Battle'.
My least favourite Narnia saga too, as it happens, though I think it's the
overt Christian propaganda that puts me off.
> > Blake - the only really good 4th season ep. Not much of a plot, really,
> but
> > then the first 45 minutes are only there to build up the tension for the
> > last 5.
>
> No-o! There's loads of brilliant dialogue and your 'palpable sense of
> impending doom... making it clear that Something Big is going to happen'.
But it's one of Boucher's talents that he can make 45 minutes of
next-to-nothing compellingly watchable:) If there *had* been a more complex
plot it would have defused the ending, so he opted for a clean and simple
narrative with a very clear sense of direction. Just what the episode
needed.
> > So out of nine favourite episodes, only six were penned by Chris
Boucher.
> > Odd.
>
> Funny, that. I note four out of my top five were Boucher scripts also.
Now why might that be?
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:16:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: rpdavies@excite.com
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Could Have Been Crew Members
Message-ID: <29455171.962226995051.JavaMail.imail@ringo.excite.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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This is my first posting to this digest so here goes:
Here are some possible crew members from season 1.
A2 Nova, Who was supposed to be a regular, but instead the "naive" lines
went to Vila & Gan).
A3 Arco was also a regular in early plans.
A8 Sinofar can perform ESP tricks & keeps her cool & gets on with Blake,
but she hints she cannot survive off the planet.
A9 Avalon &/Or Chevner would have been OK.
A10 Renor, even if he's a bit like George from Blackadder IV in space at
times.
A11 Tyce is another good possibility, but Sarkoff is totally ineffective
without her.
A12 Ensor would have had a good chance of surviving if Blake had not tried
to bring the tunnel roof down.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:42:41 EDT
From: JEB31538@cs.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Message-ID: <ce.75859e9.268bcb51@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Julia Lawson asked several questions, and I assume they have already been
answered, but I'll go ahead anyway. Being on digest sometimes is a
drawback.
> how many paper books have been published - 'The Novel' and 'Project Avalon'
> are these the only ones?
The only other fiction one based on the series was "Scorpio Attack."
Other fiction books relating to the series were "Afterlife" by Tony Attwood
and
"Avon: A Terrible Aspect" by Paul Darrow. I've not read these two, but
reviews of both have ranged from terrible to good. I think most of the
reviews held both books in low esteem. However, it all depends on the
individual reader.
Another paperback, non-fiction, concerning B7 is Attwood's "Programme
Guide." There is a revised version of this book, and even revised, it has
errors. Still it's an overall resource.
Other books, non-fiction, concerning B7 are the tradepaper by Rigelsford,
"The Making of Terry Nation's Blake's 7," the tradepaper by Wells &
Nazzaro, "Blake's 7: The Inside Story," and the new hardbound by Muir
which has a long title but is basically just "The History of Blake's 7." Of
these books, only the Wells book, in my opinion, is any good. You can buy
it from Judith Proctor's website. http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
I personally feel the Muir book is a gigantic waste of money. At least, the
Rigelsford book has pictures in it so while it's not a great book, it's not
a bad buy. Wells book has a ton of pictures and very nice anecdotes. It's
worth the money just for the pictures alone. I think it's a wonderful book
and even bought two copies because I liked the pictures and I tore one up for
the photos.
>
> also I have bought from EBay the 1980 B7 annual and I am currently Bidding
> for the 1979 annual.....I know there is a 1981 annual how rare is this one
> as I have heard it had a lower number published than the other 2. is 12
> Pounds a fair price?
Truthfully, at an earlier convention here in California in 2000, you
couldn't even give them away. All the annuals were on a freebie table, and
no one took them. I didn't because I already have them, and I have no more
space. You can get them cheaper--much cheaper--if you want to wait. It's
just a question of how long you want to wait. Maybe somebody on Lysator
will make you an offer. I know the year before at the same convention (1999)
I bought two of the three of the annuals for $2.50 apiece and just tore
them up for the pictures. What is true of Ebay is that almost everything
you see will come up for sale again and will normally be even cheaper. I
know that because I paid some high prices for some Corgi Liberators and now
the prices are much much lower. Again, it's up to you and how long you want
to wait as well as what you want to pay.
>
> as many of you know I am trying to collect the illustrated covered release
> videos (1991 / 1992) how hard is it to find 'Blake' and the series 4 videos
I have no clue what to tell you about this. I'd just look at Ebay from time
to time. OR perhaps someone on Lysator wants to make a few pounds on their
tapes. Perhaps you will find someone who isn't that crazy about the artwork
covers and who will sell their copies to you. Maybe someone has bought the
newer releases and will be willing to give a good deal on the older ones. I
hope you get some responses. As an American, I really can't help you
getting PAL copies of this edition. (By the way, the only way Americans can
buy NTSC B7 is with the artwork covers.)
Maybe, you might think about going to Redemption in 2001 and seeing what's
for sale and for auction there at the con. At the very least, you could
make some contacts. OR if you know someone going to Redemption, perhaps
you could send them with a shopping list and see if something turns up there.
Joyce Bowen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:51:06 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <20000628215106.50808.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
But Neil, I already *said* we all got distinctly different sets of the 52
episodes. And yes, <gurgle> it was thrice and I can point to the
fuzzying-through-rewinding places too (single-minded? moi?). That's why he's
in such a poisonous mood, of course. Doing The Right Thing Once makes him
bad-tempered enough (anyone need proof of that???) but three times in one
day ...
Sally - who unashamedly and unabashedly sees the whole series as a backdrop
for you-know-what, but is having problems trying to fit Ultraworld through
to Deathwatch into this (but has not given up) :-)
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:16:43 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Message-ID: <c0.5acd415.268bd34b@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Joyce wrote:
> I personally feel the Muir book is a gigantic waste of money. At least,
the
>
I'd have to echo this comment. I read Una's review before I bought the darn
thing (on eBay, not at full price thank God) and thought, "Oh, it can't be as
bad as she makes it sound. Let's keep an open mind and read it anyway."
I will never doubt Una again. Ever.
Morrigan (aka Trish)
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:59:25 EST
From: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Message-ID: <20000629005925.47256.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Steve (Dobson) wrote:
>Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights
>between Avon and Blake every other episode.
And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the
phrase "It's gonna blow".
But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American
version.
Jessica
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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:59:03 EST
From: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Message-ID: <20000629015903.1295.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
>wrote:
> > What to do if Blake actually wins is a very tricky
>question. Blake needs to > convince himself that what
>he is trying to overthrow is SOOOOO bad that >
>replacing it with something would actually result in
>change for the better. > Perhaps it was a cultural
>thing. Self rule over central rule. Free trade > over
>managed distribution. Entrepenuership over regulation.
>Small armies > beating each other up over large armies
>beating the people up.
Wendy responded:
>Tell me, did Blake *ever* actually have a coherent
>political platform? I mean, once the revolution had
>succeeded and the new regime in place, did he have any
>idea what the new regime would do differently beyond
>allowing democratic elections? It's occurred to me--
>in parallel with another discussion going on here--
>that Mugabe used to be a resistance leader.
I don't think Blake had much of a plan for *after* the revolution, I can see
a cooling off period occuring after the final battle was won and eventually
a sort of, provisional government set up until proper elections could be
held. And I suspect that this would be when people would begin vying for
power. Blake may be a good revolutionary but I'm not sure how he'd survive
in a political environment and he might eventually find himself either
someone elses puppet or else discover a rather sharp object protruding from
his ribs. Anyway pretty soon the whole thing would become so corrupt it
wouldn't be that different from the old Federation.
Gosh how depressing, But I don't see how that could be prevented, any ideas?
Jessica
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:24:19 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <20000629072419.A1503@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 08:35:41PM +0100, Neil Faulkner wrote:
> B7 was, of course, caught in the trap of being evening family entertainment,
> so it had to follow the conventions of that time slot. In a way this worked
> to the series' advantage, since it allowed the writers to allude to
> something darker and more realistic without splattering it all over the
> screen (which can be very effective, but also tends to be defused by its own
> over-indulgence).
Well, if B7 had been the "ideally violent and gritty" series you seem
to be seeking, I would have hated it, so there.
> I get the impression
> that Terry Nation wanted to dip his toes in dark waters but was too hesitant
> to do so too often, while Chris Boucher had far less reluctance. Most of
> the others didn't seem to want to even bother.
My feeling is that Terry Nation was coming at it from a "Robin Hood in
Space" point of view, and Chris Boucher was looking at the Dirty
Dozen, only greyer. I don't think TN had any doubts that the
Federation was evil.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:10:10 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: The Books (was Re: [B7L] Julia Lawson)
Message-ID: <20000629081010.C1503@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 06:50:51AM +0100, DragonFly wrote:
> how many paper books have been published - 'The Novel' and 'Project Avalon'
> are these the only ones?
Avon, a Terrible Novel - ahem, A Terrible Aspect by Paul Darrow
Aftermath (another terrible novel) by Tony Attwood (he of the
Programme Guide)
Blake's 7 by Trevor Hoyle
Blake's 7: Project Avalon by Trevor Hoyle
Blake's 7: Scorpio Attack by Trevor Hoyle
and if you want to count non-fiction, The Programme Guide by Tony
Attwood.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Blake: Better keep her sedated.
Avon: And locked up or dumped.
Jenna: You should never have brought her on the ship.
(Blake's 7: The Web [A5])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:20:08 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Message-ID: <20000628.214813.-106121.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed Jun 28 20:35:26 BST 2000 Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Ellynne:
>
> > In fairness to the Doctor, Ace, Jo Grant, Dayna, and Avon (whew),
> neither
> > Jo nor Dayna ever blew up a building because they were somehow
> sensitive
> > to its evil, psychic leftovers (that we know of). If they had
> done this,
> > we have no reason to believe the sensitivity came because they
> were
> > somehow tainted by a demon out to destroy all life on Earth and
> into
> > raising up armies of the undead. Finally, we have no reason to
> believe
> > either of them met the Doctor or Avon because said demon set them
> up to
> > do so.
>
> Tainted by a demon? I missed this.
>
> When did Tanith Lee start writing for Dr Who?
>
I can't remember the name of the episode but (WARNING! WARNING! SPOILERS
AHEAD!) the Doctor and Ace wind up in WW II England in a small, coastal
village. There was a certain, very evil entity (Fenris, I think, or
something like that) who had, years before, been defeated and imprisoned
by the Doctor. This creature was able to influence not just people he
had once been in contact with but their descendents as well (I think it
owed more to Lovecraft than Lee [I avoid Lovecraft, btw, due to my
addiction to actually, occasionally sleeping]). When they died, their
bodies slowly changed into horrible (well, supposed to be) monsters
(called hemovores [blood swallowers/eaters]) he could, once powerful
enough, raise up. He was also capable of overpowering and transforming
living beings, making them a sort of vampire (but able to move around in
daylight). Fenris refered to these people as his wolves (ha-ha).
Ace discovers the little baby she helps save grew up to become her
apparently less than ideal mother and that she was also one of Fenris'
wolves. The explosion that somehow transported her to the spacestation
where she met the Doctor was arranged by guess-who, so that she would be
there where he could use her against the Doctor. Btw, there was a final
scene (a little heavy handed, to say the least) where Ace symbolically
rids herself of Fenris taint, in case you were wondering about the long
range implications about her character.
Ellynne
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #181
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