From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #182
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume00/182
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 182
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna
Re: [B7L] Re: Prior & Steeleye Span
Re: [B7L] Other peoples mail
Re: [B7L] Back from the conference
Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
[B7L] Hey, hey, we're Blakes 7....
Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
[B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: [B7L] Sevencyclopaedia
Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Uncut "Rescue"
[B7L] Croucher in pants
Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
[B7L] Blake's Back + Liberatored
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:55:20 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Message-ID: <20000628.215522.-106121.3.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sadly, I think Blake saw himself more as a reformer than a revolutionary.
The Federation may have BECOME evil, but it still payed a certain amount
of lip service to forms of just government. Blake probably saw himself
as the man who (eventually, at whatever cost) was removing the evil
infection and restoring a healthy body.
Like the way Brutus saw himself as saving the Republic. Or the way
Augustus was viewed as having restored the Republic (and saved if from
monarchy, no less). The way Robin Hood helped defend good monarchy from
bad.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:57:28 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <20000628.214813.-106121.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed Jun 28 20:17:07 BST 2000 Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>
> Neil:
>
> [big snip]>
>
> > I'm with Min here. They were a thoroughly decent bunch of squeaky
> clean,
> > middle class (even Vila) make-believe criminals with all the glam
> of being
> > on the run from the law with none of the grimy banality that gets
> you
> > running in the first place.
Granted, part of this was popular fiction, but it also showed how
relatively good people could be criminalized by the Federation. Nova,
like Blake, seems to have been sentenced for political crimes (OK, I'm
guessing). The general impression, despite merry band Blake winds up
with, is of fairly decent people either being punished out of all
proportion for their crimes or being punished for what weren't crimes,
period (like people in Nazi Germany sent to camps for saving the lives of
the wrong kind of people). There's also some suggestion of how the
Federation twists and corrupts people who otherwise might have been
fairly decent.
Jenna - We know she won't smuggle certain drugs and possibly other goods.
Historically, there've been many incidents of smuggling with at least
some moral argument. During the Cultural Revolution in China, trade that
posed no economic threat and that had been going on between neighboring
villages (in the same country, mind you) was often forbidden in attempts
to make areas 'independent' (see 'mass starvation' for some of the
results). Then there were cases of ruling nations forcing colonies to
buy goods at fixed, high prices or to buy expensive, finished products
rather than the tools needed to make such goods. Given the exploitive
nature of the Federation, there was probably a lot of this going on.
Gan - What we know of his crime suggests it was somewhat justified. The
basic impression is that his wife or significant other was raped and
murdered by Federation guards and that Gan, either in an attempt to
defend her or in an understandable rage afterwards (perhaps immediately
after or when he learned the guards wouldn't be punished in any way)
killed them. If it was to defend her, then most western law would
exonerate him. If it was after, it could still be a significantly
mitigating factor. Depending on how much it was done 'in hot blood' and
how much it was done in context of no other source of justice being
available (this is not the same as _failed_ justice where what is held to
be an overall just system fails in a particular case but a case where
law, essentially, ceases to exist - if Gan knew the law didn't recognize
crimes committed against a low grade by a Federation guard) this is also
mitigating (not the same as letting him off scott free).
Granted, how scary Gan gets when the limitor malfunctions (and when
discussing hands) makes me wonder.
Vila - the interesting thing about Vila is the compulsive level of his
thievery. All though he seems able to refrain (usually) from victimizing
his close associates, he's been shipped out on prison ships several times
for largely petty theft (again, the out of proportion element). Despite
this and other nasty punishments, he seems _unable_ to give up being a
thief (when faced with a choice between safety in paradise with a
beautiful woman and giving up the opportunity to steal, he can't do it).
What little I know about kleptomania suggests being a thief is his way of
striking back against the powers that be. Again, we're faced with a
character who might be a much better person if he weren't living in the
Federation.
Avon - Hey, every theory has it's exceptions.
OK, OK, Avon can be compared to Vila. Although he values things like
individual loyalty, he was raised up in a corrupt system with enough
awareness of its corruption to never feel any loyalty to it.
This is all based on the idea of there being a social contract between
individuals and society. In the Federation, society - or the rulers -
ignore or subvert their obligations. While this doesn't completely
justify some of what some of the characters have done, the mitigating
factor needs mentioning.
Also, if anyone wants an argument for (with the exception of Gan's lady
friend) _why_ the overall lack of rape -
Settlers on America's east coast were actually surprised by the rarity of
sexual assault by Indians during their wars, so culture can effect this.
The Federation may have taken a line from Big Brother and may have found
ways of more directly channeling troopers' sexual aggression into just
plain aggression.
Or - well, we've never been sure what was in the drugs the Federation
gives them.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:48:09 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <20000628.214813.-106121.2.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:43:27 -0400 Harriet Monkhouse
<101637.2064@compuserve.com> writes:
> Ellynne voted:
> >And (I know I'm the _only_ person who'll say this)
> > Dawn of the Gods, mainly because I saw it late and
> > night and apparently hallucinated a
> >whole back story that makes sense of it.
>
> Well, don't stop there!
>
OK (warning, this may bore some people more than the original, but, hey,
I like it).
Given the basic ins and outs of myths and urban legends, it seemed clear
Cally's myth or Auron origins can be twisted into almost any shape the
creative story teller needs, so-
To start with the ending, the Thaarn's deformity seemed to need some
explanation other than his being very old, as he implied to Cally. For
that matter, so did Cally's reaction to it.
I came up with the idea that the Thaarn's appearance was as much a
punishment as anything else his people did to him. They were able to
trap his mind in a weak, ineffectual form. But why stop there? Why
shouldn't his mental powers also have been significantly weakened?
Eventually, I came up with the picture of a being of once (from his POV)
godlike powers reduced to near helplessness, afraid to even let himself
be seen because of how it would diminish the power he has on those around
him.
But, even more than Cally, he's been trapped 'alone and silent,' living
underground in these dark tunnels. Add the possiblity that he had to
make everything there (until humans had space flight and he could capture
a few), the millennia he has literally spent trying to make inch by inch
changes (I assume they didn't leave him there with a tool kit) becomes
appalling. Weak as it appears, his body must be fairly tough. Moreover,
given his people had significant mental powers (and that there's no other
way to explain his survival, IMO) he must be somehow conditioned to
survive at all costs, no matter how he feels about that survival. I also
began to wonder if his mental powers weren't somehow reflected in his
physical environment. That is, if there weren't some ways he could
slowly push to expand them (my theory was that he essentially has to
reach out psychically and create the framework he needs outside his mind,
an unimaginably slow and tedious process, knowing that a second's
inattention can utterly destroy it and leave him right back where he
started [because of the inbuilt limitations, the rebuilding process will
always be just as difficult, experience doesn't help]). In short, we're
talking eons of torture, here.
This also means that the slightly rosy view Cally's myth gives of the
other gods should be discarded. Nice people wouldn't do this. This also
raises the question of _why_ they really did it. The Thaarn treats
_humans_ as animals to be used and discarded. He doesn't treat Cally
that way. What if this wasn't just desperation and lonliness, what if
that's how he viewed Aurons? Humans were animals to be used and Aurons
were people?
Suppose the 'gods' were a race of aliens like the one they met in
Sarcophagus, ones who found humans and enslaved (they might say
'domesticated') some as 'intelligent menials' but used others as toys,
setting up a colony here or a colony there under different scenarios,
perhaps with the occassional touch of genetic engineering, largely for
curiousity and amusement, sometimes for a more particular purpose?
Auron was the Thaarn's world. A more peaceable people than most with
possibly other qualities worth mentioning, it may have only begun as an
experiment to see what happened when he put together a community of what
humans might consider 'virtuous' people under benign growing conditions -
only to find himself coming to like and (to some, small extent) admire
them, to see them no longer as animals but as people.
I'm sure it was still a very condescending view, very paternalistic and
all that. But let's not forget the root of paternalistic is pater-
father, and that's how he began to see them. Finally, it reached a point
that he did something his people would punish him mercilessly for - he
began to genetically engineer telepathy into Aurons.
Now, I'm going with the theory that telepathy is one of those mental
traits that needs the proper environment or it atrophies or fails to
develop entirely (speech falls into this, as does eyesight [infants born
with cataracts who are unidentified within a certain period of time can
fail to develop sight even if the cataracts are removed (or so I've
read)]). Mere introduction of the gene (or, more likely, genes) for
telepathy wouldn't make the population telepathic overnight.
One of the others discovered what he was doing, she (yes, she, I'll get
to that) tried to reason with him. Their people were arrogant,
especially about their power and independence. Her doing this instead of
openly denouncing him was an expression of sentiment they would never
have approved of. That it went far enough she left herself open to being
killed was a crime to be punished.
He had one reason for killing her. She knew he had _already_ changed the
Auron genome. There was one, simple way to escape punishment, the simple
step she begged him to take - destroy the Aurons. He wouldn't do it,
but she would - or, if she hadn't, she still would have made sure his
people knew what he had done. Either way, the Aurons, who he considered
his children (perhaps they even were, in some sense, if their telepathy
was based on his DNA [assuming he had DNA instead of some other chemical
compound]), would die.
He killed her, a crime he couldn't hide from his people, but he was able
to make them believe they had fought over what he _intended_ to do, not
what he had done. He was punished, as was she (c'mon, those aliens in
Sarcophagus could have put together the energy she needed to come back!
Being set adrift, etc, was her punishment for letting herself get killed
[the friend who gave her the ring that made the recovery considerably
easier faced her own small punishment. It was her own ring and, had she
met some enemy or accident before rearming herself, they would have been
as merciless to her]).
The Thaarn's human servants (able to carry technical work by lacking a
deeper, theoretical understanding) were spared and exiled as a sort of
joke, to prove how wrong he was about them (although they probably killed
some), not that the Web told it this way (Xenon was also a world they'd
used, although only for raw materials. The slaves they left there had no
genetic potential for telepathy and no technical knowledge to make use of
things like Dorian's cave (I'd guess the mineral must have actually had
some organic basis and that they 'grew' it there), but leaving behind the
raw crystals and certain legends that eventually pushed in a direction of
psi-based technology.
If they bothered to give the Aurons and explanation (why not? Big egos
like to boast), it was how they had punished the evil Thaarn, who had
been their enemy and the enemy of the other gods. They may or may not
have brought up telepathy, but the development of telepathy became
enshrined in Auron thought as proof of higher development, a trait to be
found among enlightened people worthy of the gods.
And the Thaarn began his exile.
Once humans entered space, he was able to lure some in and capture them.
He still considered them animals, feral predators compared to his
domesticated child-pets, perhaps. If it was hard work with a high
mortality rate breaking them in, well, life's hard. But he was also
interested in escape.
He couldn't escape the planet in the body he was in. It held all the
conditioning that would stop him. He could only leave if there was no
other way for him to survive. But, he also wanted to escape the other
limits they'd put on him.
They'd meant for him to see people like what he had intended the Aurons
to become as his only hope (the Aurons, through myth and possibly some
imprinting of their own, never went into his part of space). A sick,
little joke. But, he didn't see humans as like Aurons at this point. He
was conditioned not to genetically engineer them, but he began to breed
for telepaths. It was hard work, given that many people who might have
the trait would show no outward signs. Of those who showed signs, there
was no real way to determine which were stronger carriers and which had
just been in a slightly better environment - and it wasn't an environment
he could easily provide, anyhow.
At last, after long years, he had the Caliph.
Hey, he was too young to be so important - except that he was the
Thaarn's main pawn. For the Thaarn's plan to work, he needed a telepath,
even a weak one, who would obey him utterly, who would put up no
resistance whatsoever when the Thaarn either moved into his body to
absorb him or basically killed him and kicked him out. The Caliph may
not have been quite perfect in this respect, yet, or the Thaarn may have
been waiting for him to mature before committing himself - or he may
still have been dealing witht the limits his people had put on him - but
it was only a matter of time.
Then Liberator came.
Was it just a coincidence? While Avon had put in some defenses, could
Orac still be influenced by a telepath? Perhaps the earlier attempt to
use him was also the Thaarn's (remember, Cally was _driven off_ the ship
and rendered [he thought] harmless rather than being killed [or being
left on the ship where she would have been killed]. Whoever it was had a
_very_ good grip on the horrible condition of lonliness)? Either way,
Orac ignores his usual interest in self-preservation out of curiosity and
gets the Liberator to the Thaarn in a way leaving Cally unaware of where
their going before it's too late for her to interfere (assuming
imprinting).
The Thaarn was ready for them. His people told the lies he wanted them
to, perhaps lies he was even able to make them believe. He had already
designed a way to destroy the planet. All he needed was someone to pull
the trigger - a trigger he had left right out in the open even though he
would have to fight to try and stop them (this is what they call the left
hand being very good at ignoring what the right hand is up to, deep
rooted duplicity being necessary to pull this off).
He could only make suggestions to Orac, to influence it without its being
aware. To get what he wanted, he had to give Orac motivation - like
saving its plastic hide, the ship, and the crew. Hegave the Caliph
instructions, never telling him it was a computer he was after.
Meanwhile, there was Cally.
After thousands of years, he was finally in contact with another telepath
(the Caliph, who registered as a telepath the way a slug registers as an
intelligence [and who was cannon fodder anyway] hardly counted). She was
one of his children, one of his people, one embodying everything he had
loved about them and sacrificed for (no comments on rose colored glasses,
thank you). She was his deliverance, his salvation, the justification
for everything he had suffered and everything he had done.
He had to lie to her, a little. He couldn't admit his plan to himself,
much less anyone else. Besides, he realized the part she could play in
freeing him. Did he mean it about killing her? Maybe, maybe not. He
wouldn't be the first shepherd willing to kill his own sheep. Or maybe
he only had to believe he could - or have her believe he could.
He let himself be tricked. If she had killed him, he would have been the
same as the woman in Sarcophagus sans ring - a more comfortable torment.
But he didn't want her to see what he was, what he saw himself as (the
Caliph, brain washed into near non-entity status, didn't count [you know
what the Caliph must have thought Orac was, though, given his master's
faked fear (well, if Orac had figured things out, adios to 1,000 years of
prep work) and Tarrant's description]). It's not easy to have your
children come home after all these years and find you less than nothing
(in his own eyes).
He still had to fight to save his prison. It cost him the Caliph, and he
may have held a grudge. Or he may have considered it worth the price.
But Auron was destroyed and, like Cally, he could hardly be unaware of
it. One way or another, he was unable to arrive in time to help -
perhaps he was still conditioned and unable to help. But two things
would have resulted. Whatever value he placed on Cally would have
infinitly increased (somehow, I think he didn't know about Fanton, et al.
Perhaps he was too overwhelmed by feeling the other Aurons dying,
perhaps he was just too limited to sense it. The Liberator crew probably
didn't keep any records on it, whether or not they ever discussed it,
just in case), and he would have had an absolutely murderous hatred of
Servalan and perhaps all humans in the Federation.
But he still needed a body, a host who wouldn't fight in any degree.
This is where things slide over from background supposition to out and
out fanficness.
So, for anyone still reading, you know that section of fanfic that thinks
Avon has some latent telepathy (hey, he's everyone's [except Neil's]
favorite for beautiful suffering, etc.)? He's not the same as an
atrophied telepath, he's blocked (and never mind the story behind that,
this post is a monster as it is).
Then the Anna incident happens. The Thaarn, who was now keeping close
tabs on the Liberator crew, saw what happened in a way even Cally
couldn't. For those few, suicidal moments, Avon wouldn't have fought to
save his life, not one tiny bit. And his defenses were down, the Thaarn
could see a human mind with beautifully developed potential.
He was too shocked to act till the chance was gone. But he began to
plot.
Inspiration struck Servalan. She began putting the plot on Terminal
together. The hard work on the Blake recreation wasn't because it really
needed to be perfected for their plan but because it needed to be
perfected for the Thaarn's plan. He probably manipulated Orac for part
of it, getting Federation computer's to say the simulation didn't meet
probability specs, till he had a simulation designed to give Avon what he
wanted - Blake alive, ready to be rescued (Servalan and the Federation
ready to be defeated, just for kicks), the biggest carrot anybody ever
put in front of a stubborn mule. And all of it set up in a way to
destroy everything - the Liberator (oh, please, like Servalan just
_happens_ to chart him a course through the one thing that can destroy
the ship [and the one thing just happens to have organic qualities when
we're presupposing an alien with some extensive talent for genetic
engineering even if he can't use it on sentients. Hel-Lo-O!), the crew
(stranded on the planet with little apparent chance of survival), defeat
at Servalan's hands, and the fresh loss of Blake - all of it _his fault_.
Oh, and throw in at least two days no sleep, possibly three or four by
the time the blow hits (why leave someone with coping skills, after
all?).
Except it didn't work. The Thaarn made two mistakes. He initially moved
into Avon's skull and began trying to absorb him. He also tried to get
ahold of Cally at the same time. The Thaarn would have also been dealing
with Avon's physically exhausted state. Without going into details (a
little late for that, I know), when it comes to mental digestion, Avon's
pure gristle. Cally was able to add her bit, and the Thaarn was caught
off guard. But he still had Cally.
She was able to get out one message to Vila (the Thaarn had too much
attention on Avon), a call for help and a warning as she glimpsed the
final stage of the Thaarn's new plan.
Simply put, the Thaarn knew he would have to push Avon out of his own
body, not absorb his psyche, and he would have to recreate a moment of
complete despair. The crew's luck, at this time, began to become
relentlessly bad and they often overlooked obvious ways to get the upper
hand. What previous contact the Thaarn may have had with Dorian is open
to speculation, but Dorian was using a mineral the Thaarn may have helped
create and certainly knew how to make full use of. Dorian found a
logical reason to rescue the crew Avon could have been proud of - and
promptly died, leaving no one to interfere with the cave - except the
Thaarn. Also, when Dorian repaired Orac, it's doubtful he left in the
telepath defense bombs Avon had made.
The Thaarn was able to interfere with the crew, at least a little. He
may have also decided it was time to get rid of the Seska, just to clear
the field. He took advantage of opportunities, pushing Avon to take Vila
instead of one of the others in Orbit, helping Avon not to think of
things like landing the shuttle, having Orac flat out tell him to get rid
of Vila when all else failed (even so, it still failed, once Avon
practically tripped over the source of the extra weight).
It didn't matter, the main plan was ready. That's what Cally's last
warning cry meant. The Thaarn pushed events along, then did his level
best to have everyone ignore any evidence, to think of anything to say,
that would have stopped Avon from thinking Blake betrayed them. He was
even able to push Blake into walking toward Avon when Avon told him to
keep back. Perhaps he was even able to help Avon pull the trigger.
By the time the Federation guards poured in, Avon was already dead. The
Thaarn had complete control. His powers, if not quite where he wanted
them, were infinitly greater than they had been moments before. He
looked at the guards, wearing the uniform of the Federation he so loathed
and hated. The guards stood there, unmoving, as the Thaarn lifted his
gun and killed them all, one after the other.
That's when things get interesting.
Anyhow, that's the background story I wound up putting together and the
events I theorized from it after Blake. Being half asleep while watching
an episode makes all the difference.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:10:01 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Message-ID: <6e.a663cf.268c2619@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ellynne wrote:
> Sadly, I think Blake saw himself more as a reformer than a revolutionary.
> The Federation may have BECOME evil, but it still payed a certain amount
> of lip service to forms of just government. Blake probably saw himself
> as the man who (eventually, at whatever cost) was removing the evil
> infection and restoring a healthy body.
I'd have to disagree. Someone who is willing to destroy Star One to
overthrow the government's control is not looking to reform within the
system. A premeditated destruction of such magnitude is the act of a
revolutionary, one who wishes to replace the existing structure not reform it.
Morrigan (aka Trish)
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:12:04 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna
Message-ID: <20000629041204.92870.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
>I can't remember the name of the episode
To get in before Mr McIntee does, The Curse of Fenric. I think Dayna
uttering the line "I'm not a little girl anymore" in a similar context is
best left to the imaginations involved in the Other List, really.
>[I avoid Lovecraft, btw, due to my addiction to actually, occasionally
>sleeping]).
I must've read the wrong ones, then...hmm, must amend that, if anyone wants
to give recommendations.
>Btw, there was a final
>scene (a little heavy handed, to say the least) where Ace symbolically
>rids herself of Fenris taint, in case you were wondering about the long
>range implications about her character.
A little akin to Avon chucking himself into the nearest body of water after,
say, Rumours of Death, if some of you can *ever* imagine his conscience at
rest. I think those who liked Colin Firth chucking himself into the estate's
lake in Pride and Prejudice will be sitting up and taking notice about
now...
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:49:00 +0100
From: "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Prior & Steeleye Span
Message-ID: <001001bfe197$892e7de0$b8e407c3@ariana>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
> Steeleye Span was one of the two major British attempts to fuse
> post-Monterey rock with traditional folk (the other being Fairport
> Convention).
And they also happen to be one of my favourite bands. I have several of
their albums, as well as a semi-solo project Maddy Prior did with June
Taybor. Agreed that she doesn't have a particularly good voice, but as mine
is similar, I find the Steeleye Span songs great fun to sing along to.
Unlike Kate Bush or Joni Mitchell, Maddy never gets out of my range. <g>
Ariana
http://www.alpha.ndirect.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:45:13 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Other peoples mail
Message-ID: <395AE268.7457EF01@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ellynne wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Jun 2000 23:41:20 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
> >
> >
> > Jessica Taylor wrote:
> >
> > > I was trying to think of
> > > people for Cally and Vila but I got stuck, any ideas?
> >
> > Ellynne does a good Cally.
>
> I've been thinking about this and, despite some feelings some people have
> towards Cally, think I can live with it. Cally probably is the one I
> identify with the most.
And I've been thinking about this, and it rather worries me that you
might think my comment was intended as a dig. It wasn't.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:50:28 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Back from the conference
Message-ID: <395AE3A4.566F0F6C@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Una wrote:
> I just got back from delivering a paper on the Q study at a conference in
> cultural studies in Birmingham. It's quite an important conference on the
> circuit, so I was fairly chuffed to get the paper accepted. I was even more
> chuffed when Henry Jenkins ('Textual Poachers' guy) turned up specially to
> hear it!
Congrats!
> As a result of the paper, I also made contact with some academics working on
> TVSF in the UK, and one of them invited me to give a paper at a panel he's
> doing on 'The Creations of Terry Nation'. Woo hoo! I'm going to argue that
> B7 was a Chris Boucher creation rather than a Terry Nation one, and I throw
> that one over to you all for closer scrutiny!
Brave, brave Una. You will tell us how this goes over, won't you?
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:07:35 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]Sarcophagus (was RoD (was Animals))
Message-ID: <395AE7A6.7CFEC8C2@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally wrote:
> Jessica asked:
> <What was wrong with Sarcophagus? I keep wondering if I'm missing something
> but I really enjoyed that episode.>
>
> I liked quite a lot about it (it's one of the best episodes - as drama - in
> series 3, IMO) though it just doesn't quite feel B7-ish to me.
Ditto (and the rest of what you said about it). Stylish, atmospheric,
creative TVSF--but IMHO, doesn't fit B7. If I were going to throw
an ep out of canon, this would be the one, but I've decided I can live
with it as somebody's post-RoD nightmare.
> Even in <shudder> Moloch, there's Avon fretting (just a little) about Vila's
> safety; finding out what Vila looks like in uniform (like he's playing
> dress-up, actually :-) and that wonderful moment when Vila asks Doran"you
> like women" and Doran answers "no". Oh yes, and Avon being roughed up :-).
Don't forget the Avon Explains Everything scene--I quite like to
see the scientist come out to play occasionally.
> Stardrive I'm still looking (one word - "who?")
It's the first ten minutes I like--particularly that bit just after Avon's
big gamble has gone all wrong and *everybody's* yelling at him, except
for Vila, who's closer to whining, and in the midst of it all, Avon ignores
everybody else, but still bothers to tell Vila that it will be all right. How
like Avon to use the phrase 'shut up!' to reassure somebody.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:32:59 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <395AED9A.11AE07A4@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ellynne wrote:
> > Neil:
> >
> > [big snip]>
> >
> > > I'm with Min here. They were a thoroughly decent bunch of squeaky
> > clean,
> > > middle class (even Vila) make-believe criminals with all the glam
> > of being
> > > on the run from the law with none of the grimy banality that gets
> > you
> > > running in the first place.
>
> Granted, part of this was popular fiction, but it also showed how
> relatively good people could be criminalized by the Federation.
This is very like my take on it; those who wound up on the Liberator
were criminals more because they opposed a corrupt system (Vila
being the exception) than because they preferred crime as a lifestyle.
Which doesn't make them the less criminal, but does make them less
dangerous to the average citizen (therefore fewer victims).
> Nova,
> like Blake, seems to have been sentenced for political crimes (OK, I'm
> guessing).
No, no, no! ;-) Nova was the exception, he was the cheerful
baby-faced serial murderer, and we should all be grateful he
wound up in the sealing gel, else he'd have knocked off the whole
crew by 'Deliverance'.
> Gan - What we know of his crime suggests it was somewhat justified. The
> basic impression is that his wife or significant other was raped and
> murdered by Federation guards
Can't remember if I've raised this issue before--I'd say this was more
backstory you've hallucinated, if I hadn't seen so many other people
allude to it. There's nothing on my vids or in the transcripts about Gan's
woman being raped, only killed. Does this idea come from the novels,
perhaps? As far as I've been able to discover, it's just not canon.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:11:48 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Hey, hey, we're Blakes 7....
Message-ID: <395AF6B4.313A032D@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've just been revisiting my childhood tonight by watching VH-1's
completely forgettable TV-movie, 'Daydream Believers: The
Monkees Story', and I kept getting pulled out of the illusion by the
fact that the fellow playing Mickey Dolenz was, in his curly wig
and sideburns, a near ringer for Tarrant (if somewhat shorter).
Now I'm a bit apprehensive about retiring, for fear I shall be visited
by nightmares of Avon in a green wool hat and Vila playing the banjo...
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:19:48 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Message-ID: <0b2601bfe1a3$536d8af0$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Trish:
> I'd have to echo this comment. I read Una's review before I bought the
darn
> thing (on eBay, not at full price thank God) and thought, "Oh, it can't be
as
> bad as she makes it sound. Let's keep an open mind and read it anyway."
>
> I will never doubt Una again. Ever.
Remember kids, trust your Aunty Una.
Yes, it really *is* that bad.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 01:29:20 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Message-ID: <20000629082920.98052.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ika wrote:
<Servalan is a bad role model in terms of ethics, but a terrific role model
in terms of complete resistance to/subversion of "femininity".>
I'm afraid I've always seen this point as that Servalan is a 'good' role
model to women in much the same way that Heinrich Himmler was a good role
model for chicken farmers ...
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 02:47:52 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-Id: <4.1.20000629024356.009d8510@mail.powersurfr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:41 PM 6/27/00 +0100, Nyder wrote:
>In *my* fantasy-football version they'd've kept Brian Croucher and raised
>his salary.
Well, since Alice has rejected me once twice thrice, what the hey [Penny
falls on bended knee and proffers the yellow candy ring she has kept close
to her heart through all the lonely disenchanted years] -- Fiona, will you
marry me?
Waitin', Anticipatin',
Penny
______________________________
"No rules, no naps, no shoes!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:10:23 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevencyclopaedia
Message-ID: <001d01bfe1aa$082b2b40$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
> If anyone has seen page 44 of the new Radio Times, then they'll know why
I'd
> like to stand up and say a serious thank you to Neil Faulkner, Murray
Smith and
> Richard Proctor.
Can I suggest you say it in front of a mirror, since if it weren't for you
the Sevencyclopaedia would probably still be gathering dust on a floppy I
can no longer access anyway.
I think Richard Mattox and Andrew Williams deserve a mention too, for their
invaluable proofreading. And of course all those fans whose snippets and
observations I drew on when compiling the original text.
Quite a collective effort, really.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 01:51:53 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Message-ID: <20000629085153.3745.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Blake seems to me to have a simple but consistent policy -
self-determination for individual worlds (as we have, with our
self-determination for individual countries :-)). See Time Squad (Saurian
Major), Bounty (Lindor), Horizon (Horizon), Countdown (Albian) - the
indication is that he supports individual worlds looking for independence
from central authority. Also what Avon says in Pressure Point - "the revolt
in the Outer Worlds will grow" etc etc support this idea that they are
aiming at this, rather than putting a new regime in place.
I can't really see Blake (or my apolitical Avon, for that matter) having
much to do with a centralised government to take the place of the Federation
(perhaps Avon might go with an interim winding-down arrangement - a
'skeleton crew' government' - if he could talk Blake into it. The Keeper
indicates that Blake wouldn't have a bar and Avon wasn't all that interested
either.)
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:09:38 CEST
From: "Jurgen van de Sanden" <blakes7@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <20000629090938.74125.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Oh my God, you really have a lot of imagination! Your back story was very
interesting. I've always wondered what happened to the Thaarn after DotG.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:41:50 CEST
From: "Jurgen van de Sanden" <blakes7@hotmail.com>
To: julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Uncut "Rescue"
Message-ID: <20000629094150.88961.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>The scene where Vila goes to crawl into a bottle and kicks a working
>gun. In the broadcast version, he looks at the gun, and the bottle, and
>it's very clear he's tempted to forget about the gun. The last couple of
>seconds of that scene are cut on the tape, removing the implication that
>he very nearly doesn't go to the rescue.
You're right. I forgot about that scene. Thanks.
Love,
Jurgen
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:51:35 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Croucher in pants
Message-ID: <0b5f01bfe1af$9e39d5a0$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My issue of 'Zenith' arrived this morning, and jolly good it looks too. I've
only had a quick look through it, but I thought the Croucherettes on the
list ought to have their attention brought to a certain small picture on p.
42 in which a *very* young Brian can be seen stripped to the waist modelling
some very skintight underwear.
Cry havoc, etc.
Una
-----
'Which part of 'gestalt' don't you understand?'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:32:56 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000629123216.00a86100@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 11:51 29-6-00, Una McCormack wrote:
>My issue of 'Zenith' arrived this morning, and jolly good it looks too. I've
>only had a quick look through it, but I thought the Croucherettes on the
>list ought to have their attention brought to a certain small picture on p.
>42 in which a *very* young Brian can be seen stripped to the waist modelling
>some very skintight underwear.
<pant> <pant> <pant>
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:32:04 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000629122741.00a8a290@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 10:47 29-6-00, Penny Dreadful wrote:
>At 10:41 PM 6/27/00 +0100, Nyder wrote:
>
> >In *my* fantasy-football version they'd've kept Brian Croucher and raised
> >his salary.
>
>Well, since Alice has rejected me once twice thrice, what the hey [Penny
>falls on bended knee and proffers the yellow candy ring she has kept close
>to her heart through all the lonely disenchanted years] -- Fiona, will you
>marry me?
<bounce> <bounce> <bounce>
Oh this is so great! Can I be bridesmaid? Can I, can I, please, please, please?
<going off to practice "Here comes the bride" with the karaoke machine>
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:44:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Blake's Back + Liberatored
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0629084449-339Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Good news! Sheelagh got enough requests to make a short copy run viable. There
are now a limited number of Blake's Back and Liberatored available.
Send cheques for 8.25 pounds or checks for US$15 to Sheelagh Wells, 20a New Rd,
Brentford, Middlesex, TW8 0NX, UK
I'll have stock shortly and will process orders for Aus/NZ fans who requested
copies as it'll be cheaper for you to pay by credit card rather than trying to
get hold of UK currency or International Money Orders.
Judith
PS. There are reviews of both tapes on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #182
**************************************