From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #214
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume00/214
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 214
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Avon in Assassin [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Avon in Assassin [ B7Morrigan@aol.com ]
[B7L] Re: Orbit [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] Avon in Assassin [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmai ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [ Mac4781@aol.com ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
[B7L] Fw: Tachyons in Orbit [ "An Verelst" <averelst@yucom.be> ]
[B7L] Rescue & Blake (was Orbit) [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@w ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [ Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org> ]
Re: [B7L] Avon in Assassin [ Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org> ]
[B7L] Blake model [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
[B7L] Fw: Latest News from Avon:PDS [ "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btin ]
Re: [B7L] Rescue & Blake (was Orbit) [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Rescue & Blake (was Orbit) [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:52:18 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon in Assassin
Message-ID: <3980E752.7E9F@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Bite your tongue <g> ... no, we already *knew* from Assassin that
> although My Darling has a thousand and three talents and virtues
> (okay, a thousand talents and about three virtues), acting skill is
> *definitely* not among them.
>
Okay, am I the *only* one who thinks that Avon did a pretty good
befuddled, harmless strandee?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:39:52 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon in Assassin
Message-ID: <3a.87854a4.26b24c78@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> > Bite your tongue <g> ... no, we already *knew* from Assassin that
> > although My Darling has a thousand and three talents and virtues
> > (okay, a thousand talents and about three virtues), acting skill is
> > *definitely* not among them.
> >
> Okay, am I the *only* one who thinks that Avon did a pretty good
> befuddled, harmless strandee?
Oh, darn! Was that Avon? I was pretending it was a guest character so I
wouldn't be confronted by that "acting"
Morrigan
"When I get a little money I buy zines; and if any is left I buy food and
clothes."
(apologies to Erasmus)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:04:20 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <LAW-F28SzGtWu8N82xi00009e8f@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Helen WROTE:
<Avon values few people, but values them highly.>
Agreed, if you mean values above himself. He does place *some* value on
every member of the crew, even Jenna and Gan, but not enough that IMO the
thought of dying for them would even cross his mind.
<Anna Grant, who he was tortured for. Blake, who he went into traps
for. Tarrant, who he would have traded places with when the Scorpio
was going down, if Tarrant hadn't told him it would waste both their
lives.>
Disagreed about Tarrant (Avon hesitates, yes, but doesn't say a word about
taking Tarrant's place and IMO didn't even think of offering to do so. And
Del's comment about "both of us dying" indicates that *he* didn't think Avon
was considering it.
This scene is (again IMO) a lovely, bitter little echo of the whole Orbit
thing - one of them has to be sacrificed and, as in Orbit, Avon flinches
from the necessity, but the result is much the same (except that Tarrant
behaves much more heroically than poor Vilakins and accepts his sacrificial
status).
After all [a] he was perfectly willing to sacrifice Tarrant with the others
in Games and [b] couldn't be bothered here to go and check if the boy
survived the crash and desperately needed help - as he checked on Cally at
Terminal - which, had he cared enough to do so might have prevented the
whole tragedy unfolding.
Otherwise, agreed. With the vital if awkward proviso that that Avon *shoots*
both of the people he cares most deeply about. Which always makes me wonder
why anyone would want to be his Mary Sue (I wonder what happened to the
brother? <veg>)
<Blake values many people. How much does he value them? He's taken
risks for his crew members, but what is the limit? I can't predict
what Blake would do in Orbit.>
<gurgle> 'Tis true that it is very hard to *prove* which members of the crew
would sacrifice themselves for Vila in particular, since, by no coincidence
at all, Vila does not often land himself in situations where this is
necessary ... can't think of one apart from Orbit myself (can anyone?) But
looking for those whom I *do* think could sacrifice themselves for *any* of
their crewmates, I come up with four. Blake, Gan, Cally and Tarrant
(actually, out of nine that's not bad).
Blake is, however, more complicated than the other three. He can be
amazingly cold-blooded on occasion, I agree - but he does quite coolly
extend that cold-bloodedness as much, if not more, to *himself* as others.
In Horizon, he is prepared to face Jenna being tortured and the whole crew
sent to the mines rather than give the Liberator to the Federation - then
calmly turns around and offers the Kommissar himself as a prize to take back
to the Federation, to save them (would Travis have taken him up on that one,
do you think?)
See also Cygnus Alpha, where he went down - alone - to try and rescue a
bunch of criminals, but again refused to give up the Liberator even when [a]
he was tortured and [b] they were threatened with death if he didn't cave
in.) And then there's the fact that, after repeatedly acting as the
Federation's favourite punching bag, he picks himself up and keeps heading
back for more.
It's that mixture of genuine idealism and hard-edged ruthlessness in him
again, as well as his calm, almost detached self-sacrifice contrasting with
his unabashed arrogance.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:21:47 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <008001bff84b$9f4ca820$91684e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ika said:
> Oh, I like this theory much better than mine - this is one of my strongest
Avon-
> is-bonkers or possibly Avon-is-on-drugs episodes - not for the stalking
and
> killing but for the whole giggling manically in the face of a completely
f'd-up
> situation.
OTOH as the series progresses, Avon not only finds more things amusing
but his sense of humor shifts through charcoal-gray to absolutely black--
it takes some practice to think that murdering the person closest to you
based on bad information, immediately followed by your own death, as
funny.
> Although it does mean Avon is probably having flashbacks to Star One (he
also
> ends up destroying the technology that could have given them the ultimate
upper
> hand over the Federation - although for very different reasons from Blake)
as
> well as to Terminal.
But there's at least a strong chance that Egrorian doesn't have an Ultimate
Weapon, he has a Video Edit Deck (with A/B reels!), so the parallel would be
Central Control rather than Star One.
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:33:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0727203311-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 27 Jul, rita d'orac wrote:
> I was running late this morning and caught "Godzila" (cartoon series) on TV.
>
> Won't go into the details of the plot (yes I know I should have been at work by now),
> but the mad scientist referred to a "Tachyon Signal" being sent from an alien craft at
> the bottom of the sea. The others on the boat asked him what Ta
> chyons were and he described them as "high density electro-magnetic paticles".
And the fact that they go faster than light passes un-noticed <sigh>.
God, I hate bad science!
It isn't exactly hard to generate technobabble that at least has some relevence
to real science. I think the thing that makes me wince hardest in the whole
Star Wars saga is when Han Solo uses 'parsec' as a unit of time. (It's actually
the distance at which an object has as parallax of one second of arc - fingers
crossed that I haven't got that wrong...)(a second is a fraction of a degree)
At least B7 isn't too bad in this respect, though they are rather cavilier about
how long it takes to get places - that's inconsistent plotting as much as
anything else though. Remember Star One where they talk about how they're so
far from anywhere that it would take ages for anyone to get out there - then the
fleet make it in about three hours! (I always assume that there was a fleet
doing border patrol that they didn't know about, but it's still a bit flimsy.)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:09:59 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon in Assassin
Message-ID: <001c01bff873$9b9194c0$89ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally:
>> Bite your tongue <g> ... no, we already *knew* from Assassin that
although My Darling has a thousand and three talents and virtues
(okay, a thousand talents and about three virtues), acting skill is
*definitely* not among them.<<
Helen:
>Okay, am I the *only* one who thinks that Avon did a pretty good
befuddled, harmless strandee?<
No, you're not. I too go against the majority view here. And his acting
*did* convince the slave traders :-)
OTOH, I don't think his acting the innocent in Gambit can have convinced
Blake for a minute.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:20:48 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <002101bff87d$80f1e480$89ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally wrote:
>After all [a] he was perfectly willing to sacrifice Tarrant with the others
in Games<
That was a theoretical situation. IMO Avon is able to convince himself
under any circumstances that he can sacrifice the others to save his own
life. (The *logical* thing to do.) It's only when he comes face to face
with that necessity, that he trips up, finding it impossible to carry out
the act.
It's the same armchair principle that allows Vila to sit at Liberator's
weaponry console and happily blast away at anything that moves, but makes
him almost desintegrate from shock when he is forced to kill someone face to
face.
For me the charm of Avon is that, for all his tough talking, when it comes
to the crunch he finds [probably to his utter horror :-)] that he is not as
ruthless as he wants to be. :-)
>and [b] couldn't be bothered here to go and check if the boy
survived the crash and desperately needed help<
That's Avon's fatalistic streak :-) The possibility that Tarrant could have
survived the crash simply didn't enter his mind. [I'm not excusing him, he
*should* have gone back to check.] Look how often he loses heart in S1-2,
when it's Blake who refuses to give in. [Duel has one of the best examples:
"Logic says we're dead!" "Logic has never explained what dead means."]
> - as he checked on Cally at Terminal - <
Where he could not be certain that the explosion had killed her. And he had
to go down anyway to retrieve Orac. :-)
>which, had he cared enough to do so might have prevented the
whole tragedy unfolding.<
Ah, but then we would have missed that glorious ending <eg>.
>Otherwise, agreed. With the vital if awkward proviso that that Avon
*shoots* both of the people he cares most deeply about.<
Well, one of them gives him a good reason, I'd say :-)
>Which always makes me wonder why anyone would want to be his Mary Sue<
Oh, but a true Mary Sue is convinced she'll be able to *cure* him of all his
foibles and thus remove his need for shooting people.
>(I wonder what happened to the brother? <veg>)<
Judging by the scene in Space Fall, Avon feels very protective towards his
brother. It's my take [but of course I don't expect anyone to agree :-)]
that the reason for Avon's strong protectiveness towards Blake is that Blake
reminds him of his brother.
Sally about Blake:
>See also Cygnus Alpha, where he went down - alone - to try and rescue a
bunch of criminals,<
He needed a crew.
>but again refused to give up the Liberator even when [a]
he was tortured and [b] they were threatened with death if he didn't cave
in.)<
A crew wouldn't be much use to him without a ship :-)
>And then there's the fact that, after repeatedly acting as the
Federation's favourite punching bag, he picks himself up and keeps heading
back for more.<
The true eponymous hero <veg>
>It's that mixture of genuine idealism and hard-edged ruthlessness in him
again, as well as his calm, almost detached self-sacrifice contrasting with
his unabashed arrogance.
That what makes him such a fascinating character.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:35:24 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <002601bff87f$8c217080$89ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dana wrote:
>OTOH as the series progresses, Avon not only finds more things amusing but
his sense of humor shifts through charcoal-gray to absolutely black-- it
takes some practice to think that murdering the person closest to you based
on bad information, immediately followed by your own death, as funny.<
You mean his This-is-the-final-mess-Blake-has-got-me-into smile? I find
that totally in character. Avon has always known that Blake would be his
death some day - and that their deaths would be linked. Now that has come
to pass. The utter irony of Blake dying by Avon's own hand would appeal to
him. Besides, what else is left when you see death in the face?
I love that resigned smile.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:03:23 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <39815A6A.5B303C9E@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Marian de Haan wrote:
> Judging by the scene in Space Fall, Avon feels very protective towards his
> brother. It's my take [but of course I don't expect anyone to agree :-)]
> that the reason for Avon's strong protectiveness towards Blake is that Blake
> reminds him of his brother.
That's rather close to my view--Avon's brother was an idealist,
his idealism got him killed, so Blake's idealism attracts and angers
Avon at the same time. Add that on top of Avon's natural cynicism
and I think you'd get some pretty strong push-pull.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:15:31 EST
From: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <20000728111531.20694.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> > Rita wrote:
> > TV. <snip.> Kept expecting Avon to leap out from the alien vessel...>
> >
> > The immediate mental picture of a Godzilla/B7 crossover is rather more
> > appalling than appealing ... :-)
Morrigan:
>Oh, I'm going to get bashed for this by the GDL but what immediately
>occurred
>to me was "Oh, is that where Gan got to?"
>
Are you saying mean things about Gan, that is terrible!
Firstly because Gan was (IMO) the only member of the crew you'd dare turn
your back on ever and secondly well, cause he was just so all round sweet,
besides he couldn't have been godzilla because he had the inhibiter in his
head to stop him killing people, So there!
Jessica (who never quite got over Pressure Point)
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:28:26 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <8e.8669ada.26b2c85a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Marian wrote:
> Sally wrote:
> >After all [a] he was perfectly willing to sacrifice Tarrant with the
others
> in Games<
>
> That was a theoretical situation.
What he was doing in GAMES didn't condemn the others to death. He was
increasing the odds for ALL of them. Sure, he gives the pragmatic "at least
you and I can be certain we can get away," but that's typical of Avon. He
tends to hide his caring under a bushel barrel.
And in HEADHUNTER, when Orac argues long and hard that Vila and Tarrant
should be left on SCORPIO: "Oh, you'll have to do better than that, Orac, if
you expect me to kill them."
And in TRAITOR (when he's unwilling to abandon Dayna and Tarrant) he knows
he's taking a risk when he stays around. When Vila objects to the risk, Avon
tells him: "If I'm wrong you can say 'I told you so', provided you speak
loudly and quickly."
In MOLOCH they've just had a message that Tarrant is in trouble (and Vila is
also down there). Avon is the first to volunteer to charge off to the
rescue, indicating that he'll go down as soon as Cally makes the necessary
teleport adjustments.
> >and [b] couldn't be bothered here to go and check if the boy
> survived the crash and desperately needed help<
>
> That's Avon's fatalistic streak :-) The possibility that Tarrant could
have
> survived the crash simply didn't enter his mind.
Yep. After all, Tarrant, the pilot who should have been best able to
estimate the situation, told him it was going to be a fatal crash. And Avon
saw and heard the out-of-control Scorpio that supported what Tarrant told
him. Poor Avon is so shook up about it he won't acknowledge Vila's questions
about what happened to Tarrant. Avon's "I'm glad you made it" when he first
saw Tarrant--that's an atypical expression of sentiment for Avon--is further
evidence that he did care.
> [I'm not excusing him, he *should* have gone back to check.]
I don't think he could face another body, which is what he expected to find.
> >which, had he cared enough to do so might have prevented the
> whole tragedy unfolding.<
>
> Ah, but then we would have missed that glorious ending <eg>.
There's also the possibility that Avon had persuaded himself to check (and
couldn't do it until he had a flyer to get him there) and that's how he came
in contact with Blake's flyer and ended up following it. He saw Blake's
flyer take off from near Scorpio, or Orac told him there was a flyer near
SCORPIO. Why else would Avon follow Blake's flyer except that if Tarrant
survived, that's where he'd be? Avon already knew the way out of the
woods--he told the others they were walking in the "wrong" direction. And why
especially would he follow Blake's flyer into a hole in the ground. That's
not the smartest/safest thing to do on a hostile planet. I could be
persuaded that he was chasing after a fleeting hope that Tarrant had survived
and had been picked up by the flyer.
What I find most fascinating about the scene where Avon is willing to
sacrifice himself for Tarrant is Tarrant's change of attitude. In TERMINAL
Tarrant was surprised that Avon came back for him; Tarrant didn't yet realize
that Avon cared about him. By GAMES Tarrant is saying "Avon wouldn't run out
on us." And by BLAKE he realizes that Avon would take over the controls to
allow him to escape. That Avon doesn't deny he was willing to take over the
controls confirms his intent for me. Avon wouldn't stand still for an
"accusation" of altruism if it wasn't true. :)
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:45:58 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <LAW-F168YalkXh3wFDx00000383@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Marian wrote:
<The possibility that Tarrant could have survived the crash simply didn't
enter his mind.>
But it did with Cally in a similarly catastrophic situation, as I said
(Orac's just an excuse. I may not like Cally much, but I *do* think she's
more important to him than even the fanciest box of tricks). He cared enough
to make *sure*.
Avon has this strong disinclination to think very much about other people
(with three, maybe four reluctant and unadmitted exceptions, including the
brother and maybe not even including Servalan), which means that they *do*
very easily slip 'out of sight, out of mind'.
And on Blake, me:
<See also Cygnus Alpha, where he went down - alone - to try and rescue a
>bunch of criminals,>
and Marian:
<He needed a crew.>
And of course decided that the only people in the galaxy who would meet his
exacting standards of stalwart rebel cohorts were the likes of Arco and
Vila. :-)
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:00:33 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <LAW-F49JswFCHOzyfyz00009be7@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Jessica wrote:
<Are you saying mean things about Gan, that is terrible! Firstly because Gan
was (IMO) the only member of the crew you'd dare turn your back on ever ...>
<grin> as long as you were absolutely *sure* the inhibitor was working the
way it *should*. Poor dear, he probably came closer to killing both Blake
and Avon that most of Space Command ever dreamed of (and I always feel sorry
that he never got to remember/*enjoy* thumping Snarly around, goodness knows
Avon had asked for it ...)
<he couldn't have been godzilla because he had the inhibiter in his head to
stop him killing people,>
but didn't Godzilla turn into the good - errr - guy in the later films? Not
that I've seen them, just scraps on the local multi-cultural station, but I
did think Godzilla became the 'hero'.
Maybe Gan'd make a better King Kong? But thinking of Our Heroines, we really
don't have a Fay Wray type.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:58:59 +0200
From: "An Verelst" <averelst@yucom.be>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Fw: Tachyons in Orbit
Message-ID: <000f01bff893$9946d3e0$0200a8c0@anneke>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Ika wrote:
> > Which brings me on to *my* biggest gripe with the episode, which is,
you
> > guessed it, the Tachyon Funnel. It's the *only* time in B7 that I ever
> get
> > annoyed by pseudo-science (if faster-than-light particles have only
just
> been
> > invented, how come they see the planet 7 light years away blow up
> instantly,
> > huh?) It's just a terrible set-up.
>
I don't know.
Tachyons are faster-than-light particles, so this means they go back in
time. If I shoot now, at a planet far away, the particles will arrive
*before* I sent them. So, the planet actually blows up much earlier in
time,
and what we see is what happened long ago (because light does not go
backwards in time). I don't know if you see what I mean, and I don't even
know if this makes sense, but this is how I always saw it.
However, there might be another explanation. Although tachyons were only
recently invented, there has to be another way to travel faster than light
in the B7 universe: Time Distort! This is not only being used for
spaceships, but also for communications (well, it could be another
technology than TD the Federation used for communications, but it sure is
FTL!) So even if the planet didn't blew up in the past (as my first theory
suggests), why couldn't we be seeing this instantly?
Just an idea, but it's late and I'm tired, so I'm probably wrong :-).
Hendrik
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:10:24 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Rescue & Blake (was Orbit)
Message-ID: <001601bff8a5$fca928e0$3fef72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To my:
><The possibility that Tarrant could have survived the crash simply didn't
enter his mind.><
Sally replied:
>But it did with Cally in a similarly catastrophic situation,
The situations were *not* similar IMHO. In Rescue Avon probably went
immediately to check out Servalan's space ship, without searching through
the underground base first. Which means that he didn't know its extension
yet. Also, he didn't know where exactly Cally was when the explosives went
off. Reason enough for him to recognise the possibility that she might have
survived.
The chances of someone surviving a spacecraft crash seem far slimmer.
>(Orac's just an excuse. I may not like Cally much, but I *do* think she's
more important to him than even the fanciest box of tricks). He cared enough
to make *sure*.<
I agree that Orac provided a very convenient excuse. He would have gone to
search for her anyway, even if he'd not been able to come up with a
convincing reason :-)
>Sally defending Blake:
>><See also Cygnus Alpha, where he went down - alone - to try and rescue a
bunch of criminals,><<
>me:
><He needed a crew.><
Sally:
>And of course decided that the only people in the galaxy who would meet his
exacting standards of stalwart rebel cohorts were the likes of Arco and
Vila. :-)
I don't think he had any choice :-) For him they were the nearest - and
probably *only* - candidates available. It doesn't seem likely, after his
brainwashing, that he'd know where to find real rebels in that part of the
galaxy (if he'd ever known; his former activities seem to have been
restricted to Earth). Besides, he couldn't be sure that any rebel group
would want to have anything to do with a convicted child molester.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:50:19 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000728174952.00a7fd80@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 14:00 28-7-00, Sally Manton wrote:
>Maybe Gan'd make a better King Kong? But thinking of Our Heroines, we
>really don't have a Fay Wray type.
Meegat?
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:06:50 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <3981BDAA.FA31FAE@sdc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally Manton wrote:
> Otherwise, agreed. With the vital if awkward proviso that that Avon *shoots*
> both of the people he cares most deeply about. Which always makes me wonder
> why anyone would want to be his Mary Sue (I wonder what happened to the
> brother? <veg>)
Hey, it's one of the reasons why *I'm* quite happy to admire Avon from a
safe distance. Like the other side of a television screen. Avon's not
a safe man to be around. He's a dangerous guy to have as an enemy.
He's at least occasionally dangerous to innocent bystanders. And
getting close to him is *really* dangerous. After all, over the course
of the show, Avon basically kills everbody he cares about, directly or
indirectly. And the more he cares about them, the more directly he
kills them. The people he really loves, he shoots at point-blank
range! I'll pass on that, thanks! (But, man, does it make for great
angsty fiction!) :)
--
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little
like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:12:03 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon in Assassin
Message-ID: <3981BEE3.D572288C@sdc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Marian de Haan wrote:
> Helen:
> >Okay, am I the *only* one who thinks that Avon did a pretty good
> befuddled, harmless strandee?<
>
> No, you're not. I too go against the majority view here. And his acting
> *did* convince the slave traders :-)
As representative of the majority view, I must add, however, that I
don't think the slave traders *cared* what his story was or whether he
was telling the truth, just about how much he was likely to fetch on the
auction block.
> OTOH, I don't think his acting the innocent in Gambit can have convinced
> Blake for a minute.
And Vila, who's usually much better at it, wasn't helping there, either.
:)
--
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little
like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:50:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Blake model
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0728175004-9eeRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Julia, staying with Judith...
The first batch of Blake models arrived this afternoon, so I got first pick,
ner, ner. The models are gorgeous. The modeller has caught Blake's build and
features beautifully - this is Blake, not a generic model in Robin Hood style
clothes. Joyce, make sure you've got a bucket handy when you unwrap yours,
you're going to drool... I won't be able to do any modelmaking for a while, so
I'm getting two - one unpainted to do myself at some later date, and one
painted, because I don't want to wait:-)
Technical wibble: there's a fair bit of flash on some of the figures, and the
sprue is roughly trimmed, but there's nothing that won't clean up nicely with a
little careful attention. The figures are nicely modelled, and properly moulded.
The Blake figure is cast in one piece, so the only assembly needed is to attach
it to the base (the Avon model is three parts and base). The only nitpick I
have is that the Liberator gun holster is a bit rough, but that's easily fixed.
Recommended for anyone who likes white metal figures.
------------
This bit's Judith. Kelvin's working his way through the Avon requests. I've
packed up two today and Kelvin's just gone into town to get a new drill bit for
attaching Avon's arms. There's a queue of about 7 Avon's waiting to be
painted, but he's hoping to get several done before we go to Sidmouth folk
Festival. I like Blake's face, Ian has actually managed to capture Gareth's
eyes. The gun holster isn't quite right, though it may look better when the
casting is cleaned up. The shoulders aren't perfect, but I like the overall
build of the figure. He's heavily built, without looking fat.
Ian says he's going to start work on Travis next week.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:58:18 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Fw: Latest News from Avon:PDS
Message-ID: <006b01bff712$01fb9480$ac85bc3e@orac>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thought I would forward this for those not on
the Avon Club newsflash list.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AvonPDS@aol.com [mailto:AvonPDS@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 2:48 PM
> Subject: Latest News from Avon:PDS
>
>
> LATEST NEWS FROM AVON:PDS
> 26th July 2000
>
> An Audience with Paul Darrow
> Paul will be appearing at the Fab Cafe, 111 Portland Street, Manchester
on
> the 7th November this year. (Fab Cafe's website is - www.fabcafe.co.uk or
> link straight through from our website www.avon-paul-darrow.co.uk).
Tickets
> are available direct from the Fab Cafe and will be on sale from the 14th
> August at £5.00 each.
>
> I Love The 70's
> A new BBC series all about the 70's - each week featuring a different
year.
> Paul will be appearing in the 1978 programme (he's actually filming it
> today)
> which is scheduled to air on Saturday 16th September on BBC2.
>
> "Hey, Hey, We're The Monks"
> How can they get away with a title like that!! Anyway, Paul is to play
the
> role of head monk (Brother Francis) in this new BBC radio comedy series.
If
> successful, it is hoped it will transfer onto television. More details as
> and when we hear.
>
> And those with Sky TV - listen out for all those voice-overs Paul's doing
on
> the various Discovery channels.
>
> That's all for now.... Ann
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:04:10 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <007b01bffa6a$49e53a20$a14e063e@leanet>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Yet Avon going after Vila
>with that gun is a tremendous powerful scene, acted very well and making up
>somewhat for Egrorian's OTT performance.
>
Now there is a new angle for Orbit (no not the Avon - Villa scene).
Egrorian. He is an eccentric man, who regards himself as a genius, but
becomes banished on a lonely planet, with a hero worshipping adolescent for
company. (Insert stuff for other list here). How would you expect Egrorian
to behave ? Is his performance in Orbit really that unbelievable, or just
the product of prolonged isolation of that sort of man.
I really must get out of the lab more often.
Gnog.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:21:03 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rescue & Blake (was Orbit)
Message-ID: <LAW-F239ljHw9ImUcfm00004b1a@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Marian wrote:
<Besides, he couldn't be sure that any rebel group would want to have
anything to do with a convicted child molester.>
Why not <grin>? Everyone else in the galaxy completely forgets the charge in
record time - by SLD even the Powers-That-Be seem to have done so. I mean,
they *did* it to discredit him, then, when he's becoming a galaxy-wide
hero, they never think to use the most potent weapon in their armoury
against him (I might add that I find *this* plot hole a little annoying,
since it says so much about the Powers-That-Be's intelligence).
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:23:26 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rescue & Blake (was Orbit)
Message-ID: <20000728.223627.-75339.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:10:24 +0200 "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
writes:
> To my:
> ><The possibility that Tarrant could have survived the crash simply
> didn't
> enter his mind.><
>
> Sally replied:
> >But it did with Cally in a similarly catastrophic situation,
>
> The situations were *not* similar IMHO.
[Good arguements snipped]
On one hand, there were differences (Avon may even have considered that
Servalan may have had reasons to tone down the bombs [unlikely, but if
(as happened) they weren't all in the building when the bombs blew,
_wounded_ survivors would have burdened the others more than dead
companions, decreasing their own ability to survive. Also, having to make
tough choices [face hopeless numbers of links and die or abandon a
wounded friend to said links] could have been more demoralizing than
immediate deaths in the bombings]). Tarrant, their local expert,
expected the crash to be fatal, after all (personally, I don't think Avon
was considering sacrificing his life for Tarrant's. I think he was
thinking of taking their chances with Orac trying to control the ship. I
think he knew he _couldn't_ die in Tarrant's place since he didn't have
the piloting skills - but I think he was having an almost Blake-like
moment of ignoring the limited options).
OTOH, Avon had become more fatalistic. Maybe he just couldn't consider
that Tarrant had survived.
Angsty fatalism proved wrong or angtsy acceptance of another's sacrifice.
Decisions, decisions.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #214
**************************************