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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 216
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #214 [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
[B7L] Re: Cally in Breakdown [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon, Tarrant, Guada P [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Cally in Harvest [ Pherber@aol.com ]
Re: [B7L] Red leather *again* (was: [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime ( [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Blake model [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] The charge against Blake ( [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge aga [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge aga [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge aga [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
[B7L] Zenith [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
RE: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime ( [ Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinte ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime [ Mac4781@aol.com ]
Re: [B7L] Gan-zilla [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [B7L] Blake model [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [B7L] Parsec {was Orbit} [ "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.de ]
Fwd: [B7L] Tachyons [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] Blake model [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
[B7L] quarry trip [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime ( [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
[B7L] Redemption [ Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1 ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime [ "Pat Sumner" <pat@freedomcity.fsnet ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime [ Tigerm1019@aol.com ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Parsec {was Orbit} [ "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect. ]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:05:20 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #214
Message-ID: <3983A97F.A8B@jps.net>
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> > Helen:
> > >Okay, am I the *only* one who thinks that Avon did a pretty good
> > befuddled, harmless strandee?<
> >
> > No, you're not. I too go against the majority view here. And his acting
> > *did* convince the slave traders :-)
>
> As representative of the majority view, I must add, however, that I
> don't think the slave traders *cared* what his story was or whether he
> was telling the truth, just about how much he was likely to fetch on the
> auction block.
So, it comes down to, he should have worn the red leather pants for
maximum "Capture me" appeal?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:11:40 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Cally in Breakdown
Message-ID: <3983AAFB.4033@jps.net>
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>
> The problem is, the only logical reason for Cally to have believed him
> when he said he was OK when it was breaking down was if she had some kind
> of telepathic input - he wasn't _feeling_ violent.
>
Try this one on for size: she can't read the minds of non-telepaths. Gan
can't send, so Cally doesn't know what she's thinking. She could send
soothing thoughts to him (didn't try), but only has the same hints as
us; face ad voice, etc, to know how he's responding. OTOOH, she's bad at
reading signals. I mean, the fluttering eyelashs... do you think Avon
took his acting lessons from Gan? At least Cally knows Gan well enough
to know he wasn't sounding quite himself. Whereas the slavers didn't
know Avon at all.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:08:40 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon, Tarrant, Guada Prime
Message-ID: <LAW-F206WGxegIqunLO000002e4@hotmail.com>
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<grion> We'll have to agree to disagree on this point, I think (yes, I think
the relationship had changed. It was fairly mild and impersonal anyway, and
during Warlord it went backwards. Fast. No way was Avon IMO even thinking of
dying for Tarrant - more likely just thinking - after Stardrive, Orbit and
Warlord - "oh s**t, not *again!!!")
But I will agree that 'Blake' was one episode where *Tarrant* behaved
beautifully almost all the way through, and Steven Pacey managed to keep the
Dudley-Do-Rightism of the script under firm control. I like him better in
Terminal, but I can admire him in 'Blake'.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 01:35:10 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally in Harvest
Message-ID: <e3.7cd4929.26b5188e@aol.com>
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In a message dated 7/25/00 8:22:05 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
smanton@hotmail.com writes:
> Reminds me of Avon and Tarrant doing the same when Dayna's taking care
> of Klegg in Powerplay. Maybe they just don't like to interrupt her
> when she's playing with a new toy ...
<grin> Yes, interrupting Dayna in fight mode could be viewed as potentially
hazardous to one's health!
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:36:22 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Red leather *again* (was: Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #214)
Message-ID: <LAW-F148wakzNFfhWVz00002bcc@hotmail.com>
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Helen wrote:
<So, it comes down to, he should have worn the red leather pants for maximum
"Capture me" appeal?>
Oh yes oh yes oh yes ... except that they went up in flames with the
Liberator (pause to dab at eyes with a hankie).
Tragic.
Had it been me instead of Vila, I regret to say Orac would have been rather
down on the list of 'stuff to save from a burning spaceship ...
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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:51:37 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime (leaving Del out now)
Message-ID: <LAW-F150KQj3KnOdFic000010d1@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
To change the subject a little ... and to see if anyone's got ideas on two
of the biggest plot holes in the entire series IMHO ...
1] Avon's just gone through that wonderful piel about it being 'the day of
the bounty humter'. He's teleported down, the ship's crashed, he's alone
with Orac. WHY WHY WHY does he then send out a completely open distress
signal? ('Tis picked up by the local law enforcement base, so it must be a
generic code). Who's he trying to attract? (Given that there are bounty
hunters everywhere, why does he want to attract anyone at all?) Not his crew
- they don't have receivers.
I know he's stressed - I know that he tends to get single-minded when he's
Hunting Blakes - but I really can't see the excuse for this one.
2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent.
But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly indicate
she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he? Maybe that
was the plot hole that Chris Boucher used to say was written into the
script? Maybe he arranged for her to get a stun gun, not forseeing that
*she* wasn't going to get the chance to shoot Blake before someone else
did.)
But his blank look when he runs in after Blake's shooting (*not* death, he
ain't dead, so there) doesn't seem to me that indicative that he had
realised she was untrustworthy.
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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:13:35 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake model
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0729211335-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sat 29 Jul, Harriet Monkhouse wrote:
> Judith wrote:
> >Ian says he's going to start work on Travis next week.
>
> May we enquire how far down the production line Jarriere is waiting?
>
I've asked Ian if he can do Jariere after Travis. I'm hoping we can find some
good pictures to work from - it may not be that easy.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:50:35 GMT
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-Id: <200007300856.JAA00730@smtp.uk2net.com>
Gnog:
> Now there is a new angle for Orbit (no not the Avon - Villa scene).
> Egrorian. He is an eccentric man, who regards himself as a genius, but
> becomes banished on a lonely planet, with a hero worshipping adolescent for
> company. (Insert stuff for other list here). How would you expect Egrorian
> to behave ? Is his performance in Orbit really that unbelievable, or just
> the product of prolonged isolation of that sort of man.
>
A new angle on your new angle: I always think some of Avon's weird laughter and
general behaviour around Egrorian comes from recognizing something of himself
in E. It's a kind of "road not taken" thing.
If Avon had made it to XK-72, would he have ended up like a (better looking)
version of Egrorian? Discuss.
Love, Ika
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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:14:11 GMT
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The charge against Blake (was Orbit)
Message-Id: <200007300920.KAA00917@smtp.uk2net.com>
Sally on the child-abuse charges:
>
> >I mean, they *did* it to discredit him, then, when he's becoming a
> galaxy-wide hero, they never think to use the most potent weapon in their
> armoury against him (I might add that I find *this* plot hole a little
> annoying, since it says so much about the Powers-That-Be's intelligence).<
>
Marian:
> Maybe they deduced that the Federation's reputation had now become so bad
> that it lead to everyone automatically being prepared to believe that Blake
> had been framed. In those circumstances there would be little use in going
> through with it. But I agree that it is a gaping and irritating plot-hole.
>
I think there's also a difference between "Oh, that Blake that recanted his
revolutionary beliefs - did you know he's just been sent to Cygnus Alpha for
child abuse and will never be heard of again" (which could work as an end-of-
story for the Freedom Party) and "Oh, that Blake who was sent to Cygnus Alpha
for child abuse has busted out, gathered a crew of criminals and alien rebels
and is going round smashing the apparatus of the Federation". Once Blake is
visibly an active revolutionary again, the child-abuse charges are less likely
to work to destroy his reputation, because the Federation's motives for framing
him are far more obvious. Remember before he busted out of the London no-one
outside the Administration could have known he'd gone political again.
Love,
Ika
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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:26:51 GMT
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge against Blake)
Message-Id: <200007300932.KAA00981@smtp.uk2net.com>
Sally on Blake's choice of crew:
> wouldn't he better off going and searching
> for other rebels, who (having a less-than-glowing view of Federation
> justice) would be more likely to give his story of a frame-up credit than
> ordinary criminals?
>
> Can't help feeling that had he turned up on, say, Avalon's door with an open
> invitation, there would have been enough real rebels dazzled (like My
> Darling) by this great big beautiful toy - err, I mean struck by the
> possibilities of this wonderful weapon against oppression - to fill the
> spots on the flight deck quite satisfactorily.
>
Has Blake ever met Avalon? As far as I remember Jenna was the only one who knew
her and set up the contact between them. Which goes back to the question of
whether Jenna was "just" a smuggler or whether she was a political from the
beginning...
Random thought from me is that I think Blake might well have become unbearable
very quickly if he was surrounded by real rebels. He has (imho) a bit of a
desire to convert (orate at length about his Cause) which means he might well
be happier with non-politicals around him who he can convert. Admittedly, it's
a bit of a small scale, but it could be some sort of attempt to bring his
message to The Masses.
Or you could just cite the Convenient Mind-Wipe (Blake can't remember where any
of the rebels live).
Love,
Ika
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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:43:36 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <000e01bffa0a$a21d2820$60ef72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Ika wrote:
>A new angle on your new angle: I always think some of Avon's weird laughter
and general behaviour around Egrorian comes from recognizing something of
himself in E. It's a kind of "road not taken" thing.<
That would require a lot of self-awareness from Avon. Basically, it depends
on his self-image. Does Avon believe in his own protrayal of a totally
ruthless and callous bastard or is he aware, deep down, that he can never
live up to that image and is he simply hoping that nobody else will see
through him? [Which Blake does two minutes after meeting him while the
others, except for Jenna, don't take much longer. :-)]
>If Avon had made it to XK-72, would he have ended up like a (better
looking) version of Egrorian? Discuss.<
Heaven forbid! :-) Serious, I can't see that ever happen. But I don't
subscribe to the Avon-is-insane-in-S4 theory. In my view he stays perfectly
rational, even when he's shooting Blake <veg>.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:06:52 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge against Blake)
Message-ID: <001501bffa0d$e404c560$60ef72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Ika asked:
>Has Blake ever met Avalon? As far as I remember Jenna was the only one who
knew her and set up the contact between them.<
That's right. Good point.
>Which goes back to the question of whether Jenna was "just" a smuggler or
whether she was a political from the beginning...<
I think she was just a (very successful) smuggler, selling arms to the
rebels for a profit. Clearly she has a conscience, in that she refuses to
deal in drugs (Shadow), but she never gives the impression of sharing
Blake's political views. IMHO she's following Blake for his beautiful brown
eyes [or something like that :-)], not because she believes in his Cause.
>Random thought from me is that I think Blake might well have become
unbearable very quickly if he was surrounded by real rebels. He has (imho) a
bit of a desire to convert (orate at length about his Cause) which means he
might well be happier with non-politicals around him who he can convert.
Admittedly, it's a bit of a small scale, but it could be some sort of
attempt to bring his message to The Masses.<
And his lack of success might well discourage him from any larger scale
attempts. Let's face it, the only one vaguely responsive is Gan. Cally
doesn't count as she's already a freedom fighter. Jenna just seems
interested in getting past his Noble Streak. :-) Vila is merely staying
because he hasn't got anywhere else to go. And Avon has his own agenda.
>Or you could just cite the Convenient Mind-Wipe (Blake can't remember where
any of the rebels live).<
If he ever knew that.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:31:55 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge against Blake)
Message-ID: <LAW-F144VrHMdgXg9Xd000075bd@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ika wrote:
Has Blake ever met Avalon? As far as I remember Jenna was the only one who
knew her and set up the contact between them.>
Jenna had met her, yes (and presumably could've also acted as go-between if
an earlier meeting was needed). I'd assume that the approach we *do* see in
Project Avalon came from Avalon rather than Blake, since she needed
transport, which would mean that Jenna *was* only needed to verify that it
was Avalon.
But after all, she's the original generic rebel-when-one-needs-one in
fanfic, so she can stand in for the rest here ...
Blake seems to be regaining his memory *very* quickly through this period
(AKA as "the mind-wipe was a lovely authorial idea, but is now a bloody
nuisance, get rid of it") and knows a fair bit about the Saurian Major
massacre that presumably is *not* on the official records. Yes, it might be
common rumour (though none of the rest have heard of it) but given that he
went straight from mind-wipe to prison to the London to the Liberator, he
must be talking to *someone*.
As I've said before, the time line on the early episodes is a bitch … but
maybe that's part of what Blake was doing in that time they were following
the London. They all three had a lot of time to fill in between [a] working
out how to get soap and clean undies and
something-almost-completely-unlike-food-as-they-know-it of the computers
without Zen, and [b] unaccountably always overlooking the doors to the
treasure and wardrobe rooms. He could have been building up his first few
contacts … and learning all he can about Saurian Major and Centero.
<he might well be happier with non-politicals around him who he can
convert.>
<gurgle> Nice idea (I'd listen to him, but more for the sound than the
sense) but he tends IMO to keep the lectures for where they have at least a
theoretical chance of doing any good (Ro, Horizon, for instance). He's as
fond of the sound of his own voice as the next man, (the next man being
either Avon or Vila, of course) but not of talking to the equivalent of a
brick wall. That tends to make him tetchy and abrupt.
After the speech in Spacefall, he tends to mostly stick with Avon either to
the practicalities, or the shifting games of verbal and intellectual
challenge, possibly recognising that trying to explain the whys and
wherefores isn’t going to make a lot of difference. Avon is only interested
in the why-nots and the oh-all-right-then-hows.
And I don't think he'd inflict it on Vila :-) who'd probably fall asleep
faster than I would. He has a slight tendency to lecture Jenna, but not
about politics (history of space vehicles, yes, but it's a Holmes episode).
My (again uncanonical) view is that he, Cally and Gan may have talked
politics sometimes.
The reasons for and his feelings about whatever it is they're doing at any
given time do colour his speech (Project Avalon being a perfect example, or
the beginning of Pressure Point).
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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:29:26 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Zenith
Message-ID: <3983F576.BC9FF3D8@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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My copy of Zenith came yesterday, and all I can say is, it's
beautiful. Better than the official stuff I've seen made during the
original run of the show; I may have to get another copy to
disassemble for pictures to hang on the wall. And I'm extremely
envious of Judith getting to stand on a mock-up of the flight deck.
My thanks to everybody who participated in creating Zenith. I do
hope there will be another issue.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:39:17 +-100
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: 'B7 Lysator' <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime (leaving Del out now)
Message-ID: <01BFFA1A.CD372460@host62-6-85-198.btinternet.com>
Sally wrote:
>1] Avon's just gone through that wonderful piel about it being 'the day of
>the bounty humter'. He's teleported down, the ship's crashed, he's alone
>with Orac. WHY WHY WHY does he then send out a completely open >distress
signal? ('Tis picked up by the local law enforcement base, so it >must be a
generic code). Who's he trying to attract? (Given that there are >bounty
hunters everywhere, why does he want to attract anyone at all?)
He wants to attract exactly the people he did attract - the bounty hunters.
Nobody on GP is going to help stranded spacefarers out of the goodness of
their heart, and Avon isn't in the mood for a hike through a large
plantation. The only way to get transport is to steal it from somebody
else, so that's what he does.
Soolin sees it - hence her line about being the bait in the trap he set.
>2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent.
>But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly >in
dicate she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he?
Never have managed to get my head around why they trusted Arlen after she
showed willing to sell Blake. Anyone??
louise
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:17:17 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime
Message-ID: <50.8ccbcde.26b576cd@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Louise wrote:
> He wants to attract exactly the people he did attract - the bounty hunters.
> Nobody on GP is going to help stranded spacefarers out of the goodness of
> their heart, and Avon isn't in the mood for a hike through a large
> plantation. The only way to get transport is to steal it from somebody
> else, so that's what he does.
> Soolin sees it - hence her line about being the bait in the trap he set.
Exactly. Avon knows it is a dangerous place and he wants to strengthen his
position--as in get transportation so he's mobile--as soon as possible.
Pretending to be in distress is the best way to quickly attract lowlifes with
a flyer. They'll come with the assumption that they are going to find easy
pickings. Which puts Avon at an advantage. It's a clever strategy.
> >2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent.
> >But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly >in
> dicate she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he?
>
> Never have managed to get my head around why they trusted Arlen after she
> showed willing to sell Blake. Anyone??
Nope. But it's consistent with what might have made Blake willing to trust
Tarrant. For the record this isn't *Deva's* testing program. This is
Blake's testing program. And he would have been the one to set the
parameters. So if Arlen's willingness to sell out Blake is the way you pass
the test, one has to ask why does *Blake* take that to be a signal of trust?
Moving on to Tarrant. When Blake and Tarrant arrive in Deva's office, Blake
takes Tarrant's gun and pretends to be about to turn him in for the bounty.
IOW, Tarrant is apparently still considered to be untrustworthy at that
point. After Tarrant suicidally breaks free, we get this:
ARLEN: Do you want him killed?!
BLAKE: No, of course not! When he knows as much about this as you do
now, he'll join us, like you did.
ARLEN: He passed the test, then.
BLAKE: I'm satisfied.
So somewhere between entering Deva's office and exiting Deva's office Tarrant
has passed the test. And what did he do in between? He tried to betray
Blake to Deva:
TARRANT: [to Deva] Doesn't it occur to you to wonder where he's got all
this information from?
DEVA: Give the man credit for knowing his trade.
TARRANT: Oh, surely you're not that naive.
BLAKE: You're wasting your breath, Tarrant.
Tarrant is about to reveal to Deva that Blake is Blake (with a bounty of his
own on his head). Blake tells him he's wasting his breath (because Deva
already knows this). They are then distracted by the arrival of Avon's flyer
and Tarrant makes his quick exit. Shortly after that Blake tells us that
Tarrant passed the test. Now I'd like to think that haring off to protect
his shipmates was what gave Tarrant a passing grade, but the earlier scene
with Arlen suggests that it was betraying Blake that won him that honor.
I think it's further evidence that Blake is way stressed out in BLAKE. The
testing program seems to be ill conceived and dangerous. Allowing Tarrant to
escape is a terrible oversight. Blake's answers to Avon's questions are
imprecise and misleading. Blake isn't even close to being Mr. Reliable.
It's why PGPs where Avon and/or Avon's crew are willing to follow Blake make
me scratch my head. Avon and his crew are survivors. Their evaluation of
Blake's leadership on Gauda Prime has to be a negative one. Blake has let a
spy onto his base. His allowing Tarrant to break free has gotten Klyn and
the white-coated technician (two of Blake's followers) injured or killed.
Not to mention what happens to Blake himself. Blake's security system was
flawed in that an entire flock of Feds were able to penetrate his base. This
is not a track record that would inspire the Scorpio crew to sign on the
dotted line.
Carol Mc
>
> louise
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:38:36 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan-zilla
Message-ID: <00c801bffa35$c8bfffe0$3c694e0c@dshilling>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sally Manton, responding to Trish & Ellyne:
> Ellyne:
> <[if the Federation could do that kind of conditioning, Blake would have
> been given one]).>
>
> and Trish:
> <OTOH, that sounds like a great idea for fanfic <g>>
>
> But 'twould have brought the series itself to a screaming great halt round
> about - err - the start :-)
In (I think) Michael Pennington's wonderful book about playing Hamlet,
I read about a backstage game at the RSC: coming up with lines that would
bring a play to a screaming halt ("Falstaff, you are heartily welcome at
our coronation!" "Thank you, Professor Higgins, I find that after two
lessons I am able to speak perfectly.")
Perhaps sometime around The Web, the crew sat Blake down, kept
filling his glass with Real Ale, encouraged him to tell war stories...
and, when he woke up the next morning, he discovered that they
all divided up the Treasure Room and buggered off.
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:51:50 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake model
Message-ID: <00ca01bffa35$d139cca0$3c694e0c@dshilling>
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Jacqueline & Judith:
> >
> >Travis 2, I believe.
>
> Yesss!!!! Yesss!!!! Yesss!!!! Want one!!!! Want one!!!! Want one......
How about reversible, with TI on the front TII on the back?
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:51:32 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Parsec {was Orbit}
Message-ID: <01a501bffa36$0a121b40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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Gary said -
>I'm not sure about the one second on arc at that distance, but the correct
>'yardstick' for a parsec is 3.26 light years. I suppose if an ear of corn
>were that far away it would not subtend an angle that large.
I'm sure Judith was right about the definition of a parsec. I mean that's
why it's par-sec parallax-second
It works no matter how big or small the observed thing is (as long as it is
big enough to see) The point is that it is the observer that is moving - ie
us, as the earth moves around the sun, so the angle at which we observe the
star changes, so it seems to hop about against the background of
further-away stars and the amount it hops about tells us how far away it is.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:04:28 GMT
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Fwd: [B7L] Tachyons
Message-Id: <200007301510.QAA03298@smtp.uk2net.com>
Ellyne:
> Thoughts on the Tachyon Funnel:
>
> So the name didn't make sense. Maybe Egrorian was one of those
> scientists who was messing in the lab one day, got a weird effect, even
> learned how to do something with it, but never actually managed a sound
> theory to explain the phenomena. Instead, he just spouted a lot of
> technobabble to try and cover.
>
> So it was pretty bad technobabble. What did we expect from him?
>
LOL! This is the best theory I've heard yet, and my enjoyment of Orbit can now
proceed undistracted by annoyance from my GCSE-level physics (plus reading A
Brief History of Time like 10 years ago).
Love,
Ika
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:58:16 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake model
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0730095816-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sat 29 Jul, Sally Manton wrote:
>
> Have we got enough takers for a Vila yet? (and I'm with Harriet on the
> Jarriere too, surprise surprise).
I haven't counted the requests recently, but I think he was doing pretty well.
We're still getting more Avon orders in, so that bodes well for later figures,
though obviously it will depend on how well Blake and Travis go. I got Kelvin
an initial five Blakes to paint and I think four of them already have homes to
go to as soon as they're done. He had a busy session last night on both Avon
and Blake, cleaning flash, inserting pins to hold the arms properly and more
pins to stand them securely on the bases. (You can just glue them, but pinning
makes for a much stronger join.)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:26:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] quarry trip
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0730172611-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
We had a great day at Winspit. Not only did the sun shine gloriously (which
makes drying wet clothes much simpler) we ran into a group of Dr Who fans
visiting the planet Skaro, so we loaned them some spare supersoakers and
then shot them from ambush <grin>.
It was great to see some new faces too - we had several fans with us who hadn't
been to the quarry before.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:57:51 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime (leaving Del out now)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0730085751-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sun 30 Jul, Sally Manton wrote:
> To change the subject a little ... and to see if anyone's got ideas on two
> of the biggest plot holes in the entire series IMHO ...
>
> 1] Avon's just gone through that wonderful piel about it being 'the day of
> the bounty humter'. He's teleported down, the ship's crashed, he's alone
> with Orac. WHY WHY WHY does he then send out a completely open distress
> signal? ('Tis picked up by the local law enforcement base, so it must be a
> generic code). Who's he trying to attract? (Given that there are bounty
> hunters everywhere, why does he want to attract anyone at all?) Not his crew
> - they don't have receivers.
>
> I know he's stressed - I know that he tends to get single-minded when he's
> Hunting Blakes - but I really can't see the excuse for this one.
I assumed he was trying to attract any one he could with the intent of jumping
them and stealing their ship.
>
> 2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent.
> But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly indicate
> she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he? Maybe that
> was the plot hole that Chris Boucher used to say was written into the
> script? Maybe he arranged for her to get a stun gun, not forseeing that
> *she* wasn't going to get the chance to shoot Blake before someone else
> did.)
>
> But his blank look when he runs in after Blake's shooting (*not* death, he
> ain't dead, so there) doesn't seem to me that indicative that he had
> realised she was untrustworthy.
I think this was part of the test. Arlen passes because her reason (supposed)
for selling Blake is that he has obviously betrayed the revolution by turning
bounty hunter. She does *not* offer to trade in any fellow rebels and thus
passes the test again.
(Tarrant also refused to say anything that would help Blake find the rest of his
crew - he too passed this part of the test. He also considered Blake to have
sold out and had no qualms about saying so.)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:19:38 -0700
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>,
B7 Egroups <blakes7@egroups.com>, B-7 egroups <Blakes-7@egroups.com>,
Couro Prido <CouroPrido@egroups.com>, projectavalon@egroups.com
Subject: [B7L] Redemption
Message-ID: <3984E239.200FF222@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, just a reminder for anyone thinking of booking for Redemption but
hasn't yet done so, the discount for early bookers runs out in one
month's time. If you book before the end of August, the adult weekend
rate is 40 pound. From 1 September it is 45 pound.
For those who don't know, Redemption is a Blake's 7 and Babylon 5
convention due to run from 23 to 25 February 2001 in Ashford, Kent, UK.
It is a fan run convention with all profits to charity (split evenly
between the National Asthma Campaign and The Woodland Trust). The main
theme of the event will be fan-run discussions, panels, debates and
workshops. There will also be games, quizzes and competitions, Friday
and Saturday night discos, dealers room and fancy dress.
There will be some guests to complement the programme - Gareth Thomas
(Blake in Blake's 7), Ron Thornton (cofounder of B5 special effects firm
Foundation Imaging and a model builder for Blake's 7), Andy Lane (author
of the Baylon Files and the backs of 350 B5 trading cards), David Walsh
(Servalan impersonator) and Michael Sheard (section leader Klegg in B7
among many TV appearances).
The Klingons will be back and there will be a special telepath arc.
For more info, we have a web page at http://www.smof.com/redemption or
you can email us at redemptioninfo@smof.com, or send an SSAE to Lesley
Rhodes, 26 Kings Meadow View, Wetherby, LS22 7FX, UK.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson
"In my world, there are people in chains and you can ride them like
ponies"
The alternative Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:32:49 +0100
From: "Pat Sumner" <pat@freedomcity.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime
Message-ID: <009401bffa5d$f024a860$f581883e@s5e8f3>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: <Mac4781@aol.com>
Sent: 30 July 2000 13:17
> Blake's security system was
> flawed in that an entire flock of Feds were able to penetrate his
base. This
> is not a track record that would inspire the Scorpio crew to sign on
the
> dotted line.
My opinion is that the Federation guards were not there to capture
Blake and his 'nest of rebels', but were the security personnel that
Klyn requested.
The base is a Federation run base, set up to allow Fed personnel to
pretend to be rebels, to think like them, the better to infiltrate or
catch the real thing. In essence, they are roleplaying.
Blake (assuming he's the original) has been conditioned to work for
the Federation instead of against. The series has established that
people can be conditioned (some more easily than others, like Dayna in
'Animals'), and since Blake's mind has been tampered with before, it
could more easily be adjusted again.
Arlen is working under the impression that the rebels are the genuine
article.
I think that the base could have been set up under maximum security,
probably while Servalan was President. Her replacement doesn't know
about it, since Servalan presumably didn't leave an envelope marked
'Secret plans made by President Servalan. Do not open unless she is
deposed or killed' on her desk.
Servalan's motivation in 'Warlord' is clearer, I think.
She arranged for the 'rebel alliance' set up by Avon to fail, and
arranged for Zukan to bomb the base, and leave everyone there dead.
She could have arranged for the entire base, and everyone inside, to
be completely destroyed, as soon as Zukan's ship touched down. But
that would have also meant the destruction of Orac and the Teleport.
Since Avon knows that one of the alliance will betray him to the
Federation, he will have no other choice but to abandon base.
And where else would Avon go? Servalan knows that Avon has risked
everything to find Blake in the past.
And Servalan knows exactly where Blake is.
Remember that all that is my opinion only, and I'm sitting here
waiting for the plasma bolts of disagreement to hit.
Pat
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:36:13 EDT
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime
Message-ID: <a0.7bfd226.26b5ebbd@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 07/30/2000 2:37:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
pat@freedomcity.fsnet.co.uk writes:
> My opinion is that the Federation guards were not there to capture
> Blake and his 'nest of rebels', but were the security personnel that
> Klyn requested.
>
> The base is a Federation run base, set up to allow Fed personnel to
> pretend to be rebels, to think like them, the better to infiltrate or
> catch the real thing. In essence, they are roleplaying.
This is a very interesting theory, and not one I'd have thought of, Pat. :-)
> Blake (assuming he's the original) has been conditioned to work for
> the Federation instead of against. The series has established that
> people can be conditioned (some more easily than others, like Dayna in
> 'Animals'), and since Blake's mind has been tampered with before, it
> could more easily be adjusted again.
Very plausible, and we don't know what happened to him between "Star One" and
"Blake." It's very possible he was captured, and who better to attract other
rebels?
He spent four years following the party line back on Earth before he regained
his memory the first time; I could believe that he could be conditioned
again, poor guy.
:-(
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:42:39 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime
Message-ID: <LAW-F258HtteCScgcOe00006ae5@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Pat wrote:
<Blake (assuming he's the original) has been conditioned to work for the
Federation instead of against. The series has established that people can be
conditioned (some more easily than others, like Dayna in 'Animals'), and
since Blake's mind has been tampered with before, it could more easily be
adjusted again.>
Nothing wrong with it as a theory I guess (or fanfic cliche - I've read
several of these, usually blatantly written to let My Darling off the hook)
but it makes nonsense of the entire plot, doesn't it? If he's working for
the Federation, why on earth does he test people/talk to Deva about a base
and an army, etc etc?
As for the base being easily infiltrated ... yes it was, once Arlen got her
deceitful little foot in the door, but again (Boucher/Nation's favourite
motif) we don't know how long Blake and Deva had been running their
operation successfully. I assume from what Deva says that it's been for a
fair while - months, maybe even over a year (yes, that's uncanonical, but I
also like to *try* and tie what happened to Blake to Rumours, and again,
there's no proof to gainsay it).
Also, *is* this Blake's base? Since Klyn appears to be one of the local
law-enforcement wannabes (and Deva is acting as one, being sent information
in that role) I think not. Blake's too distrustful to take people being
tested *there* (and obviously Arlen hasn't yet been told this bit - he still
This is a local 'proto-police' base.
What Blake had back at the real base he mentions to Deva we have no idea.
Thirdly, the Scorpio crew may have no choice. Avon has Orac stashed away and
if Avon decided to stay with Blake (which, even if *he* thought the whole
thing was stupid, he probably would, going on his track record), then the
crew have the clothes they stand up in ... and that's it. Yes, they could
try and steal another ship and get off-planet and hope for another
rabbit-out-of-hat like Dorian to show up ...
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:26:32 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Parsec {was Orbit}
Message-ID: <017401bffa8e$84701060$5e139ad8@cgorman>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gary wrote :
> I'm not sure about the one second on arc at that distance, but the correct
> 'yardstick' for a parsec is 3.26 light years. I suppose if an ear of corn
> were that far away it would not subtend an angle that large. The crowd
does
> note your exposure of Han Solo's use being incorrect. However, I must add
> that Star Wars had the best usage of the jump to hyperspace being
> *dangerous* and *time-consuming*. In series like B7 and Doctor Who and the
> Star Trek
> series' they just simply get the order to go warp whatever and basically
> just slam the gas and go... At least Han explains it takes time for the
> computer to get it right and it's just simply not a safe, free thing. Of
> course, they gloss over it in later movies anyway, just like everybody
else
> does.
Being a sad Trekker, I have to jump to the defense of Star Trek's warp drive
systems, with the use of the trusty technical manual. <g>
Trek had the benefit of a computer system with enough storage space to store
information on all major stars, nebulae, dust clouds and other stable
nautural objects. Newly discovered objects were catalogued and their
information transmitted by subspace radio to all Federation vessels.
Using this information, the ship's computer would automatically determine
the optimal flight path. With its faster than light processing elements,
the computational time was minimal. The helm/conn does only need to give the
desired destination and speed, but the computer has the power and speed to
limit the dangers of warp travel.
This is a bit different to the Liberator's systems, which insisted on human
intervention when anything strange occurred during the flight, but the same
process as the Millennium Falcon, which had a navigational computer to
calculate the flight path. That too would need a database of all celestial
objects.
Steve Dobson.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #216
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