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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 251
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] CreditQuest [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
[B7L] Search thingy [ Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.s ]
Re: [B7L] Secretary Rontane [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ]
Re: [B7L] Blakes motives [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re [B7L] BFI poll [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] CreditQuest [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] more Blake's 7 haiku [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Blakes motives [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] CreditQuest [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
[B7L] Mission to Destiny [ Nic Mayer <nic@paranoidangel.freese ]
Re: [B7L] CreditQuest [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 07:46:34 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] CreditQuest
Message-ID: <20000905.074652.-453151.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:48:42 +0100 Julia Jones
<julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> A quid was worth more twenty years ago than it is now. Although
> whether
> the price of that which has a price of ten credits would have been
> considered cheap at ten quid in 1979 is another matter.
> --
Consider what a quid was worth back in the early 1800's. Or what about
the 1500's? Or maybe we should be using something else - yen, francs,
dubloons - to compare them to.
The truth is they were probably thinking more or less in terms of the
value of a pound at the time the show was being written (sadly, on those
rare occassions when SF authors bother with an explanation of the money
of their story, it can almost always be compared to the money values of
whatever time and country they live in). Why we should feel overly
constrained by it, OTOH, is beyond me (except that evidence in the series
would support it).
There may have also been financial changes after the Galactic War and
after Servalan's overthrow. The war may have led to economic instability
and a major change in the value of the credit - possibly even the
establishment of a new monetary system to compensate - and the regime
overthrowing Servalan may have either started a new system or reverted to
the old one to show a 'clean break' with the past.
Hey, how much Avon stole has bee revealed! Both claims are accurate!
The later one was inflation adjusted.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: 05 Sep 2000 16:05:30 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Search thingy
Message-ID: <86lmx7vsxw.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I finally got around to writing a proper-ish search thingy for the
list archives. Follow the link from the archive page:
http://tezcatlipoca.algonet.se/
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"My Body Is A Temple...To Bacchus" -- Penny Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:58:41 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Secretary Rontane
Message-ID: <0df901c01752$2bc10100$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Fiona wrote:
> Just to let you all know that Episode Three of The Posthumous and Hastily
Suppressed Memoirs of Secretary Rontane is now up, and Episode Four should
follow sometime in the next month. Ep 3 is a Kaldor City special, and Ep 4
will be more of the usual Alan-bashing; owing to technical difficulties the
one about the Lyst will probably be Episode Five.
>
> Relevant url: http://redrival.com/nyder/rontane.html
"I'm glad you could stop by," said Uvanov. "It gets a bit Lonely around
here, sometimes."
Bad Fiona!
Una
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:01:39 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blakes motives
Message-ID: <003701c01763$707b3de0$98ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Working through the backlog after my holiday... (And why do all these
interesting topics come up while I'm away?)
Sally:
>>But again, if the cause overrode the people, he *would* have tried harder
to keep Avon in Breakdown - he knows he has the influence, he knows he has
the manipulative skills, and he knows Avon is valuable. But Avon's free (or
as free as Blake can make it) choice comes first - "if he stays, it's got to
be for his own reasons", not Blake's.<<
I don't see what Blake *can* do, short of resorting to violence, to make
Avon stay against his will.
Jessica:
>Can't remember Breakdown too well so if I've got something muddled up I
apologise in advance. If Blake had tried to force Avon to stay on the ship
he knew very well it would simply make Avon even more determined to leave.
Blake certainly isn't stupid he knows Avon needs to feel that he has control
before he'll ake a decision so he gave Avon his space.<
That's why Blake is so snappy to Avon - he reckones that the best way to
make Avon stay is to make him believe he wants to get rid of him :-)
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:53:54 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re [B7L] BFI poll
Message-ID: <008701c01771$c446ee20$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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The British Film Institute have just published the results of their poll on
the Top 100 British TV programmes of all time.
B7 isn't on it.
But the list was culled from critics, producers and other industry insiders.
Now they've thrown it open to public, so if you want to vote for our lovable
mob, nip over to http://213.253.19.130/features/tv/100/index.html
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:24:25 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] CreditQuest
Message-ID: <008901c01771$c741dea0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Ellynne G. <rilliara@juno.com>
> The truth is they were probably thinking more or less in terms of the
> value of a pound at the time the show was being written (sadly, on those
> rare occassions when SF authors bother with an explanation of the money
> of their story, it can almost always be compared to the money values of
> whatever time and country they live in).
I don't see much wrong with this - it offers an easy baseline to work from
and gives the viewers a feel for the kind of value implied. Money is, after
all, just money, an abstract reference to relative value.
Of course, you should consider how the relative value of particular
commodities might change in the future. In B7, for example, where space
travel is implied to be cheap and easy, ceramic materials might be equally
cheap (plenty of rock to dig up and process) but plastics might be
relatively expensive (not many planet being likely to have oil reserves).
OTOH, genetically modified bacteria might be yielding unlimited supplies of
cheap polymer - I believe ICI have already investigated this possibility,
and found it uneconomic at present.
> There may have also been financial changes after the Galactic War and
> after Servalan's overthrow. The war may have led to economic instability
> and a major change in the value of the credit - possibly even the
> establishment of a new monetary system to compensate - and the regime
> overthrowing Servalan may have either started a new system or reverted to
> the old one to show a 'clean break' with the past.
The prices cited in post-War episodes are significantly higher than in the
pre-War ones (see Sevencyclopaedia: Credit, Money) suggesting post-war
inflation.
The use of barter by eg Maja in The Way Back and Blake in Shadow suggests
that most money existed as electronic credit rather than cash (supporting a
suggestion made by someone recently on this thread).
> Hey, how much Avon stole has bee revealed! Both claims are accurate!
> The later one was inflation adjusted.
I tend to see the 5 million cited in Spacefall as his cut on a larger scam
of 500 million (cited by the Ultra). But if the smurfy threesome were
following the performance of their portfolio then they might have taken
inflation into account.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:35:33 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] more Blake's 7 haiku
Message-ID: <20000905.223539.-320827.2.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Fri, 01 Sep 2000 18:23:53 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes:
> I love "Beauty and the Beast", especially Disney's version. I spent
> the
> first scene going "someone followed me around and took notes!"
You too?
I am not alone.
Of course, wouldn't say I looked like Belle. True, I had the hairstyle,
the little lock of hair, the books, and a blue dress suspiciously like
hers, but nothing _definite_. It was still eerie.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:53:19 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blakes motives
Message-ID: <20000905.223539.-320827.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:01:39 +0200 "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
writes:
> Working through the backlog after my holiday... (And why do all
> these
> interesting topics come up while I'm away?)
>
> I don't see what Blake *can* do, short of resorting to violence, to
> make
> Avon stay against his will.
>
1) Not that it's very Blake-ish, but there's always the threat of telling
the Federation where Avon is (anonymously) and feeding them a story that
would make it worthwhile to come after him.
2) More likely, threaten to let Jenna answer any questions when his
prospective employers check on his previous work history.
3) More realistically, he didn't even begin to lay a guilt trip on him or
point out all the wonderful bribes (the treasure room, the alien
technology both on the ship and that they run into every other week, the
wardrobe room, much bigger living space [all the easier to avoid people],
etc).
4) And the greatest trump card of all. He _never_ tells Avon he _knows_,
when push comes to shove, he'll stay.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:27:55 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] CreditQuest
Message-ID: <20000905.223539.-320827.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:24:25 +0100 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
writes:
> From: Ellynne G. <rilliara@juno.com>
> > The truth is they were probably thinking more or less in terms of
> the
> > value of a pound at the time the show was being written (sadly, on
> those
> > rare occassions when SF authors bother with an explanation of the
> money
> > of their story, it can almost always be compared to the money
> values of
> > whatever time and country they live in).
>
> I don't see much wrong with this - it offers an easy baseline to
> work from
> and gives the viewers a feel for the kind of value implied. Money
> is, after
> all, just money, an abstract reference to relative value.
It's just on my list of pet peeves. I guess I've read enough historical
fiction and so on that it just sort of knocks me out my acceptance of the
story when I notice the characters using credits (or megabucks or space
shekels or whatever) that breakdown into (gasp!) whatever the writer's
currency of choice was going for. And when the currency breaks down into
a hundred cents (or the equivilant) I just roll my eyes. I mean, Long
John Silver used a different monetary system and so did Robin Hood. As a
kid, it _really_ bothered me that the Jetsons didn't.
Add in 1960's SF novels where women living centuries into the future are
fighting the same battles for equal rights or historical fiction where
Oliver and the Dodger sound suspiciously like Beaver and Eddie Haskell
and it just sets my teeth on edge.
A few words of praise, however, for Bujold who actually has varying
exchange rates and characters who negotiate what kind of currency they're
going to be payed in.
And let's not forget Rowling. As soon as Hagrid started explaining all
the complications of wizarding money, I went from adoration to... uh,
well, _more_ adoration.
But, you're right, it probably helps the average reader keep track.
> Of course, you should consider how the relative value of particular
> commodities might change in the future. In B7, for example, where
> space
> travel is implied to be cheap and easy, ceramic materials might be
> equally
> cheap (plenty of rock to dig up and process) but plastics might be
> relatively expensive (not many planet being likely to have oil
> reserves).
> OTOH, genetically modified bacteria might be yielding unlimited
> supplies of
> cheap polymer - I believe ICI have already investigated this
> possibility,
> and found it uneconomic at present.
>
Good idea, but the Federation seemed to be very stunted in genetic
research. I'm assuming this science was hit hard either during the
Atomic Wars or after (massacres of geneticists blames for genetic
mutation or biological warfare). What's left seems to be controlled by a
few monopolies, such as the Clone Masters (perhaps their Rule of Life was
more a response to fears of geneticists running amuck than to their own
beliefs. Then again, maybe the surviving geneticists had very good
ethics records). But that doesn't mean they couldn't have bacteria left
over from before the war.
> I tend to see the 5 million cited in Spacefall as his cut on a
> larger scam
> of 500 million (cited by the Ultra). But if the smurfy threesome
> were
> following the performance of their portfolio then they might have
> taken
> inflation into account.
It's possible. Being a galactic terror is not the cheap, low overhead
job some make it out to be. Start with insurance. What do you think it
would cost to give that brain a CAT scan?
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:37:14 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
From: Nic Mayer <nic@paranoidangel.freeserve.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.21.0009061127520.-543693@nic>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I was watching Mission to Destiny the other day (ta, Judith!), and some of
it confused me.
When Avon points out that 54124 is in fact a word (SARA), how on earth
does he make 4 an A? The 5 and the 12 I can see, but since when did a 4
look like an A? Or am I missing something here? (When he started to
explain I thought he was going to stick it in a calculator and turn it
upside down, but 2 isn't a letter, nor is 54124 a word)
Now, Blake goes back to the Liberator and they set off for this planet to
deliver the thing (you can tell I'm good with names). He explains what's
going on, where they're going and why. It seems only natural that he would
then open the box to show them the thing. Although of course, this would
make the ep much shorter given that only 2 people had the opportunity to
remove it.
That bloke with the beard - given that he had Sara's homing device at one
point, did he know what she was doing?
Last point - As far as I can tell, Blake doesn't actually kill anyone
unless he has to. So why does he quite happily blow up the two ships? I
know that these were 'bad' people, but he (or someone else) should have
made sure that Sara didn't get an opportunity to take the teleport
bracelet off.
Having said all that, I did enjoy the episode, although I had no idea who
dunnit (I thought it was the bloke who had the key, he was being far too
nice to people he didn't know in my opinion).
Nic
Lt Gen (USMC) SG3 - Danny's Girls
www.paranoidangel.freeserve.co.uk
A Life? Cool! Where can I download one of those from?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:39:16 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] CreditQuest
Message-ID: <000401c0182e$541505c0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: Ellynne G. <rilliara@juno.com>
> On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:24:25 +0100 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
> writes:
>> Money is, after
> > all, just money, an abstract reference to relative value.
>
> It's just on my list of pet peeves. I guess I've read enough historical
> fiction and so on that it just sort of knocks me out my acceptance of the
> story when I notice the characters using credits (or megabucks or space
> shekels or whatever) that breakdown into (gasp!) whatever the writer's
> currency of choice was going for.
Presumably really BIG numbers come into play when the author is Italian.
> And when the currency breaks down into
> a hundred cents (or the equivilant) I just roll my eyes. I mean, Long
> John Silver used a different monetary system and so did Robin Hood. As a
> kid, it _really_ bothered me that the Jetsons didn't.
Decimal systems are pretty universal these days, so I don't see why the
Federation Credit should be any different. How many of what to the Credit
is open to speculation. I'm really grateful the UK went decimal before I
left primary school, because 12d to the shilling and 20s to the L was just
plain loopy. I still miss the thruppeny bits, though.
As a name for a unit of currency, Credit is admittedly rather uninspiring
and unoriginal. At least elsewhere in the series we get the Vem, whatever
that was worth, and Zerok seemed to have its own currency. Presumably many
other independent planets did too.
> Add in 1960's SF novels where women living centuries into the future are
> fighting the same battles for equal rights
Who says they won't be?
> > OTOH, genetically modified bacteria might be yielding unlimited
> > supplies of
> > cheap polymer - I believe ICI have already investigated this
> > possibility,
> > and found it uneconomic at present.
> >
> Good idea, but the Federation seemed to be very stunted in genetic
> research. I'm assuming this science was hit hard either during the
> Atomic Wars or after (massacres of geneticists blames for genetic
> mutation or biological warfare).
Reading between the lines, it would seem that the real restraints on
biotechnology are legal rather than practical. In, eg, The Web, Blake notes
that the creation of new species of animal have been banned for centuries,
which does not rule out modifying existing organisms. The CLonemasters'
Rule of Life is rather vague, but seems to forbid cloning human beings, not
bio-engineering in general. Indeed, the CLonemasters' own city was made
from a bio-engineered organism. So too was the Phobon Plague, as developed
by Federation scientists (Travis pointed out in Weapon that they had the
capability to do so). In Animals, which I largely mention only to excite
Una, Servalan wanted to know how soon Og could be cloned, suggesting that
the legal barriers collapsed in the aftermath of the Intergalactic War.
From this we can infer that pre-War biotechnology was limited by protocols
to which the Federation at least was a signatory, if only on paper. Auron
certainly wasn't.
> What do you think it
> would cost to give that brain a CAT scan?
I don't know, but I suspect it would keep Ika in jumpers for a very long
time.
Neil
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #251
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