From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #270 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume00/270 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 270 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Zine Bindings [ "rita d'orac" <orac@inorbit.com> ] Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ] Re: [B7L] Zine Bindings [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ] [B7L] The Princess Bride [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ] [B7L] Anna [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ] Re: [B7L] Re: editing [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ] Re: [B7L] Typesetting preferences [ Pherber@aol.com ] Re: [B7L] The Princess Bride [ "huh" <huh@ccm.net> ] Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ] Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ] Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theo [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] [B7L] h2g2 [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theo [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ] Re: [B7L] h2g2 [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ] Re: [B7L] h2g2 [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Re: [B7L] Zine Bindings [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ] Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduct [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduct [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Re: [B7L] Introduction [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduct [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ] Re: [B7L] Introduction [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ] Re: [B7L] Introduction [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduct [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] [B7L] Re: 10 hour warning - eBay Bla [ Bizarro7@aol.com ] [B7L] the Travis comparison [ Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org. ] Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theo [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ] Re: [B7L] the Travis comparison [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:48:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "rita d'orac" <orac@inorbit.com> To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zine Bindings Message-ID: <382724143.970001351577.JavaMail.root@web313-mc.mail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon 25 Sep, Tavia Chalcraft wrote: > By the way, Judith, I would guess (as a limited company) I will be able t= o > reclaim the VAT ? Well, I wasn't going to admit to being an accountant. Ever. But it didn't seem right to let your questions go unanswered, so here goes: If you are registered for VAT, you can reclaim it. You *must* register if your turnover is over the VAT threshold, but you *may* also register if you= r turnover is lower than the threshold (currently about =A352k). > God I hate UK tax law, but whether one charges VAT on the output and whether > one reclaims VAT on the input are two entirely independent questions (I spent > days making sense of their brochure but this does seem to be the case). ie, > If VAT on materials is a significant cost, for a UK zine publisher, it might > just be worth setting yourself up as a limited company so that you can > reclaim it. Actualy, you don't have to be a limited company to register for VAT - any business can do so, including a partnership or sole trader. (And I hate UK tax law too!) and Judith Proctor wrote: >One rule is keep accounts for everything. Not least, because >if you know when a >zine was paid for, then you're in a better position to keep >track of what went >wrong if a zine goes missing. Certificates of posting are handy > too. good advice! you should keep all documentation, particularly invoices you receive and send out and also make a note of any payments you make that you don't have invoices for - stamps & stuff - they all add up. Judith wrote: >Doesn't the turnover threshold apply whatever kind of business you are? (= I >could easily be wrong there) I don't think the paperwork on lots of small items >of stationary would be worth it though. Do stamps have VAT? I spend a fortune >on stamps. No VAT on stamps, but expenses like these will all count when calculating any profit/loss you have made. Ok, back to lurking.... rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=3Dsignup ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:34:22 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] Message-ID: <200009261734_MC2-B4BD-252E@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Judith hypothesised: >I think when she 'let him go' she meant that she > didn't tell the authorities about the exit visas. I think she meant that she tried to release him in an emotional sense, knowing that only the news of her death would convince him that he didn't= have to wait for her, or launch a pointless rescue bid. She underestimat= ed the lasting effect of her loss on his mind, however. I do take Anna's revolution a bit more seriously than most. My hope is that her current lover is a military commander who, she has contrived, wi= ll be on standby to answer the call for assistance from Grenlee. But he (or= she) was not especially bright, was relying on her guidance, and is unabl= e to improvise on arriving to find Anna dead and Servalan free. Eventually= , he takes revenge at Geddon. Does this contradict my theory that Anna is sincere - the lover shouldn't= be shooting at the rebels if he's secretly her reinforcements? Er, not necessarily - Anna was supposed to be looking out for the signal that it really was him, so that she could order her forces not to shoot. Because= she was busy being killed in the cellar, the rebels assumed the troops we= re the enemy and started firing, so lover boy's lot had to shoot back. I don't see why Anna has to be either a committed revolutionary or a hypocrite pursuing her own ambitions. It's quite normal to have a double= agenda. For instance, I have no difficulty in imagining that Mikhail Gorbachev was intent on becoming the leader of the Soviet Union and simultaneously that his reforms were intended to improve the lives of its= people. Of course, I know that the ex-citizens of the USSR have a whole lot of new problems in the world that resulted, but that's not what I'm arguing about here - I merely posit an example of someone who might be interpreted as combining personal ambition with largely well-meaning intentions. In fact, I happen to think that's the norm in politics. Similarly, it's possible for Anna to combine a personal dislike of Serval= an with opposition to what she stands for. When she suggests to Hob that sh= e probably hates Servalan more precisely because she knows her, it's more than a cat-fight between socialites. Anna knows the Federation better th= an anyone, because she's been it; I think she may hate it more too, because she knows how it corrupts its instruments as well as how it oppresses its= subjects. Why does she continue to denounce Servalan and her works as she walks in the gardens with Chesku? For the benefit of the rebels who are waiting f= or her sign? Not necessary; she could agree with everything Chesku said and= they would accept it as the final stage of her act to lure him into their= clutches. She says it because it's her last chance to tell a man who's earned her contempt exactly what she thinks... Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:53:00 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net> To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Zine Bindings Message-ID: <009101c02809$138565a0$af6b4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tavia & Judith on VAT issues: > > >but if you go to a copy shop, you'll have to pay VAT if they only do the > >> binding. There is no VAT on books, but there is VAT on copying and binding > >> if done separately. > > Don't see why not. That's not an option for me as I'm under the VAT turnover > threshold, but if your turnover as a company is over the VAT threshold then it > removes all the problems associated with VAT on copying. Books are zero rated > when you sell them, so no problems there. What is the definition of a "book"? If it has to be perfect rather than spiral or comb-bound, perhaps spending X pounds more on binding could save Y pounds on VAT. After all, a short story collection is a perfectly accepted type of book. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:16:40 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] The Princess Bride Message-ID: <20000926.200516.-31855.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:59:56 EDT B7Morrigan@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 9/26/00 2:05:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mjsmith@tcd.ie > writes: > > > As a man, I can assure you that not only do I know of the > existence of 'The > > Princess Bride'; it is also one of my favourite films. > > Bless! A man who loves both B7 and "The Princess Bride." Can we > clone you? > Are there any of you available in the US? > Strange, in my neck of the woods, I've seen all the Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail quoting slowly replaced by Princess Bride quoting. Although, come to think of it, I haven't heard much of either for a while. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:05:11 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Anna Message-ID: <20000926.200516.-31855.2.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are some interesting ideas being discussed I need to think about but, for now, I think I'll stick with the theory that Anna was using the rebels. She meant to keep Servalan alive until the last minute, then make it look like the rescuers bungling had gotten Servalan killed. At that point, Anna would have had all the PR momentum that came from being the sole survivor. Whoever had been in charge during the rescue would have been discredited. Anna had whatever supporters she'd cultivated within the regime, her advantages from being Bartholomew (if nothing else, she probably had nice blackmail files on a lot of folks), and was probably (given the probably nepotism and clique tendencies of the Federation) was in a good position to take over her husband's position as counselor. If she played her cards right and if the right people had been hurt (politically and/or literally) during the rescue, she might be in a position to sail into the presidency. At the very least, she was about to get rid of Servalan, who she obviously didn't think well of. As for her and Avon, I think she did love him but she didn't trust him. She might make some sacrifices for him but risking her life wasn't too high on the list - and she would draw on him first. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:21:50 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: editing Message-ID: <20000926.200516.-31855.1.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:51:31 -0700 mistral@centurytel.net writes: > > I dunno, Ellynne, this is Avon we're talking about. I'd be more > inclined to believe something like: > > "You've reached the Liberator. No-one can be bothered to > speak to you at this time. Don't bother leaving your number - > unless you have a lucrative business deal, in which case call > my personal line at 555-AVON." > > Even that might be a bit much. How about: > > "Avon here. Don't call us, we'll call you - when Vila gets his > doctorate in astrophysics." > True, I knew it was too talky for him. Actually, I think Avon would just rig it to say something like "The number you have reached has been disconnected or is no longer in order. If you feel you have reached this number by mistake, you're finally catching on." This is all assuming he didn't just tell Vila to take care of it. I suppose Vila would do something like - "Well, why do I have to do it? I don't know how to - Oh, it's on already? Oh, er, testing, one, two, three. Uhm, hello, you've reached the Liberator. No one is available to take your call right now. Well, that's not true. I'm available _now_, I just won't be _then_, which is your now, when you're calling. It just isn't now now. I think. "Anyway, I guess no one can come to the phone. Or maybe they just don't want to. Avon wouldn't bother and Blake usually has more important things on his mind. And as for Jenna and Cally - Well, if no one's answering, I guess that means I can't come to the phone right now. With any luck, I found out where Cally hid the drinks again. More likely awful's happened to me and no one else noticed. Or maybe they just took off and _left_ me and I need to be rescued right _now_ (that's your now, not my now. I'm fine now). So, whatever message you leave, be a good chap and tell them they'd better make sure I'm all right. Please." Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:06:11 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Typesetting preferences Message-ID: <91.1094e7a.2702cc33@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/25/00 9:02:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time, B7Morrigan@aol.com writes: > BTW, you may sign me up on the campaign to persuade Neil to let Judith > reprint "Stadler Link" and "Pressure Point." They are too good to be OOP. Add me to the list too... Nina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:59:46 -0500 From: "huh" <huh@ccm.net> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] The Princess Bride Message-ID: <003001c0283f$c25b7c00$1a64e0d1@0z4g4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Strange, in my neck of the woods, I've seen all the Monty Python's Quest > for the Holy Grail quoting slowly replaced by Princess Bride quoting. > Although, come to think of it, I haven't heard much of either for a > while. > > Ellynne Have to agree here- no shortage of Princess Bride appreciation in my neck of the woods- and wouldn't think it would be an issue considering the comedy level. It's not the movie is a weepy romance or something. shrug. On the other hand, no one has understood my Leah Rosenthal Avon/Blake cartoon at work which implies a severe shortage of B7 fans. sigh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:59:02 GMT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction Message-ID: <LAW-F118nxrMDVJgv7R00003f7d@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Murray wrote: <Even in the episode, Servalan's prestige had already fallen to the extent that I feel it was a factor in her eventual loss of power. After all, Anna's coup had happened 'in her [Servalan's] own palace, on Earth, in what should be the centre of her empire'.> In seizing the Presidency, Servalan had reached her own level of incompetence, and proved it by ignoring her precariously won and badly damaged empire to chase after Our Heroes and the dream ship. I do believe that by Rumours she was probably out of touch with the real centres of power (the metaphor being that isolated house in the country) and really was *asking* to be deposed. One thing, however, that always interested me was that line in Trial about Penny's mentally re-worked, monomaniacal poodle - "he's so much better than anything I've got left." Which does say rather a lot - and none of it nice - about the quality of officer material she and her predecessors have developed ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:01:10 GMT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] Message-ID: <LAW-F190eVwrblZz02H00004ee8@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mine own opinions (not in the least, the slightest, the tiniest bit influenced by the fact that I can't stand the woman). There's actually precious little evidence of Anna's feelings about anything *at all*, since - if you recall her backstory - you can't actually believe a single word that comes out of her mouth. Yes, she did love Avon IMO. But she loved his love for *her* far more, which is why she didn't tell him the truth about the surveillance and the danger he was in, and give him some chance of escape (not much, not much, I know. But more than he must have had in total ignorance). She did *not* let him go ... that was simply a flash of emotion, not the truth but what she wanted to believe was the truth, as she died. If you believe what Avon said in Countdown, Anna still had her hoks firmly in him at the moment when he disappeared, and after that she had no way to 'let him go' as they were completely separated by what happened next. She appears to have made no attempt to contact him, help him or anything - she ditched him in *in absentia* and ran back to her husband. True, she didn't divulge what she knew, but then what *was* that? That he wasn't the political criminal she'd been leading her superiors to believe? That she'd been wasting resources and money on a simple embezzlement plan which could and should have been wrapped up long before? She was protecting herself, not Avon, by not telling *that* little truth ... and given working to reinforce the idea that he was political - in fact, her actions would (had they led to his being arrested at that time) made things a hell of a lot worse, by turning him from a straight criminal into a political criminal (look at what they did to Blake). Regarding the coup itself, it was brilliant as a kidnapping plot, but as there's absolutely no evidence that Sula's group had any connections outside the group who took Servalan's country house, it was IMO doomed to collapse. There's no way it was going to work. I'm with Murray on this one (sorry, Harriet, in the total absence of even two words about contacting others, I don't believe she had connections in the military or anywhere else - probably cause I don't want to, of course :-). And one military commander wouldn't make a lot of difference - she'd need the backing of a large number of the command structure, or what they'd have is either another civil war, or - more probably - the Presidential Palace bombed into oblivion along with both Servalan and Sula). Sula/Anna seems to have had an unrealistic idea of political reality if she thought that Servalan giving the orders for the military and civilian authorities to surrender to the same people they'd just bloodily put down would have the slightest effect except to provoke a major mutiny, and there's no indication she had a back-up plan for when (not if) it all went wrong. I do get the feeling she had a personal loathing of Servalan, and that led her to over-focus on the latter as the source of all 'evil' and the main obstacle to her plans. She made the one mistake Blake didn't (of course, Blake made quite a few others :-)) of *not* realising that the individual Power-That-Be's doesn't matter, that killing Servalan (or holding her prisoner) was of no use whatsoever if the machine was still entrenched. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:53:07 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theories (was Typesetting preferences) Message-ID: <02da01c02850$a07aa1e0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morrigan: > > Not really. I can think of better names to go by. > > > > Dread Pirate Wesley > > You actually saw the movie? > > Morrigan > who was convinced only women knew of the existence of "The Princess Bride." Another woman to add to your tally. The book is just as funny as well, and has a brilliant map. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:51:21 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] h2g2 Message-ID: <02d801c02850$9d152fc0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The main entry on h2g2 yesterday was B7. I think you can link to it from: http://www.h2g2.com/A425954 Spot the mistakes! Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:13:55 GMT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theories (was Typesetting preferences) Message-ID: <LAW-F1423NndsDO7STj00002ec5@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Morrigan wrote: <who was convinced only women knew of the existence of "The Princess Bride."> and Una: <Another woman to add to your tally.> Me too!!! I loved that movie. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:18:42 GMT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] h2g2 Message-ID: <LAW-F75L947FR7mOuf000004bda@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Una wrote: <The main entry on h2g2 yesterday was B7.> <gurgle> very nice and all to be remembered (and quite highly praised) but was it Neil's Kerr Molesworth doing the spelling?!?!? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:21:56 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] h2g2 Message-ID: <031c01c02853$a4562700$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally wrote: > Una wrote: > <The main entry on h2g2 yesterday was B7.> > > <gurgle> very nice and all to be remembered (and quite highly praised) but > was it Neil's Kerr Molesworth doing the spelling?!?!? Annoying, isn't it? A friend wrote an article on the Anglican choral tradition, and they carefully added a bunch of typoes. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:57:49 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Zine Bindings Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0927065749-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 26 Sep, Dana Shilling wrote: > Tavia & Judith on VAT issues: > > > > >but if you go to a copy shop, you'll have to pay VAT if they only do > the > > >> binding. There is no VAT on books, but there is VAT on copying and > binding > > >> if done separately. > > > > Don't see why not. That's not an option for me as I'm under the VAT > turnover > > threshold, but if your turnover as a company is over the VAT threshold > then it > > removes all the problems associated with VAT on copying. Books are zero > rated > > when you sell them, so no problems there. > What is the definition of a "book"? If it has to be perfect rather than > spiral or > comb-bound, perhaps spending X pounds more on binding could save Y pounds > on VAT. After all, a short story collection is a perfectly accepted type of > book. No, the binding type is irrelevent as to whether it is a book or not. For me, it comes down to 'fastback binding sans VAT is effectively cheaper than paying VAT on copying and then comb binding at home by hand' (I could get the shop to comb bind, but that's twice the cost of fastback binding as it's more work for them) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:34:52 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction Message-ID: <039201c02856$fc1cd3a0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral: > Judith & Una: > > > > And did Anna intend to sieze power herself or establish a 'people's > > council'? I > > > rather incline towards the former. She was cold-blooded and a good > > actress. > > > > But she talks about the People's Council *after* Hob has left the room - > > she's talking about it to herself. Which leads me to believe that she meant > > it. Anna is devious and murderous, but I always believed she was a patriot. > > However, I'm sure she would have headed any People's Council. > > Talking to herself, yes; but her manner has changed entirely as well. > >From her tone of voice and facial expressions, I get the feeling she's > gloating over how easy it is to manipulate the rebels. I honestly don't see this. If anything, I think it's quite an honest moment from Anna. > I'm quite firmly > convinced she was using them to advance her own end, that being to > replace Servalan with herself as leader over a council of gullible puppets. I'm also pretty sure that Anna is firmly of the opinion that the best person to be in power is herself. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:05:18 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] Message-ID: <03ab01c02859$c4354640$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally wrote (and I'm sure we've had this conversation before! <g>): > Regarding the coup itself, it was brilliant as a kidnapping plot, but as > there's absolutely no evidence that Sula's group had any connections outside > the group who took Servalan's country house, it was IMO doomed to collapse. [snip] > Sula/Anna seems to have had an unrealistic idea of political reality if she > thought that Servalan giving the orders for the military and civilian > authorities to surrender to the same people they'd just bloodily put down > would have the slightest effect except to provoke a major mutiny, and > there's no indication she had a back-up plan for when (not if) it all went > wrong. It could be that one of those factions at least would welcome the opportunity to remove Servalan for their own ends. I always see Anna as a part of the civilian end of the Earth establishment that views the military with deep suspicion, and is appalled that Servalan is in power since Servie is the military writ large. > I do get the feeling she had a personal loathing of Servalan, and that led > her to over-focus on the latter as the source of all 'evil' and the main > obstacle to her plans. I think she has a personal grudge against Servie, very much so (that smile when she bursts into Servie's office says it all.) I love the idea that this scene represents a sort of crisis for the Federation: that both the main players in the game (the military, the civilian establishment) are there, in that room, acting out the politics that will affect an empire. And these camps are both led by women, which is rather good. > She made the one mistake Blake didn't (of course, > Blake made quite a few others :-)) of *not* realising that the individual > Power-That-Be's doesn't matter, that killing Servalan (or holding her > prisoner) was of no use whatsoever if the machine was still entrenched. Altho' she does want to *use* that machine: take control of the army, or at least contain it. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:02:58 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] Message-ID: <03aa01c02859$c3cd5cb0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet wrote: > I do take Anna's revolution a bit more seriously than most. My hope is that her current lover is a military commander who, she has contrived, will be on standby to answer the call for assistance from Grenlee. But he (or she) was not especially bright, was relying on her guidance, and is unable to improvise on arriving to find Anna dead and Servalan free. Eventually, he takes revenge at Geddon. Ooh, what a great idea! > Similarly, it's possible for Anna to combine a personal dislike of Servalan with opposition to what she stands for. When she suggests to Hob that she probably hates Servalan more precisely because she knows her, it's more than a cat-fight between socialites. Anna knows the Federation better than anyone, because she's been it; I think she may hate it more too, because she knows how it corrupts its instruments as well as how it oppresses its subjects. Absolutely, yes, completely. I really do see Anna as very passionate about the Federation, or about its government, and seeing it governed well (and, as I said in another post, she probably thinks she's the best person to do it). FWIW, I always saw Anna as a pretty powerful person: the right hand of the previous President. But she's outplayed by Servalan and ends up out of power, and gets stuck with Chesku for protection. The Avon case plays a large part in all of this, at least in my personal view of what goes on (which you can all read on 'The Aquitar Files', of course!). I always liked the idea that Anna was watching Avon for entirely different reasons - and then he starts the fraud because of her - and then she realizes that she would actually quite like him to get away with it. Yep, I am convinced she loved him. It's much more tragic to have a situation in which two very lonely and isolated people find the one person that they could be happy with, and then it's all fucked over by political agendas that were in play long before they even set eyes on each other. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:29:43 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction Message-ID: <042701c0285d$1c765300$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny, in reply to Lisa, wrote: > >which actor do you prefer playing the character of Travis > (Gosh I'm torn...the forces of GITHOG have been plying me with fine wines and exotic spices, singing songs of love beneath my balcony...the least I could do in return is...NO! SNAP OUT OF IT, PENNY!) Remember, Penny, in time we *all* come to Greif. > >Do you view the character as the SAME character, or do you see them as individuals? > I see two actors playing a single character, pre- and post-mental meltdown. I see T1 as the Establishment guy who loses the game, and T2 as the working class boy made good who is subsequently screwed over by the Establishment who put him where he is. 'Trial' would have been very different with T1. Welcome, Lisa. Pay no attention to the ones who preach heretical Travisties. The only True Travis is the first one. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:54:09 GMT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] Message-ID: <LAW-F61lg1oMqZBlbYB00004d2a@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Una wrote: <Sally wrote (and I'm sure we've had this conversation before! <g>):> We did - it was on the Other List, remember? <It could be that one of those factions at least would welcome the opportunity to remove Servalan for their own ends.> True, but I'd definitely want proof that there was *someone* whom Sula was involved with and who would side with her rather than exploit and crush her and her little coup for their own ends - as I said, the episode tends to scream (to me) single small group not connecting with or interacting with others. Of course, *that's* just interpretation. There's actually no proof that I can see that Anna/Sula was anything more than a apparatnik of the Security system (have I spelt that right?) who married up, but whom no one in real power positions had any interest or interaction other than social with. None that she *personally* was a part of the power structure as Sula Chesku, or had any power or influence at all. (If anyone believes there is, feel free to tell me I'm wrong). <I love the idea that this scene represents a sort of crisis for the Federation: that both the main players in the game (the military, the civilian establishment) are there, in that room, acting out the politics that will affect an empire.> Whereas I love it for the sense that we have the soon-to-be-has-been battling the never-will-be-or-could-be, and neither realising that *real* power is shifting away - unseen and unrealised by both of them - being slowly drained away by people we never see (this of course depends on having seen Terminal <g>). It satisfies the part of me that also likes 'Blake' for the renewed impersonality of the Federation. Different strokes, I guess ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:03:18 GMT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction Message-ID: <LAW-F245UzmRf6Ci6nx00005065@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Una wrote: <Welcome, Lisa. Pay no attention to the ones who preach heretical Travisties. The only True Travis is the first one.> If I agree, do I get forgiven my no-less-heretical views on That Woman? ;-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:28:40 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction Message-ID: <047a01c02865$d2ef25f0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally wrote: > Una wrote: > <Welcome, Lisa. Pay no attention to the ones who preach heretical > Travisties. The only True Travis is the first one.> > > If I agree, do I get forgiven my no-less-heretical views on That Woman? ;-) Ooh, it's a tough call, but in the final analysis I would have to say that Anna heresy is *probably* the greater sin. I would insist on all three Mysteries of the Rosary for that one, whereas for Travis heresy I'd just give a Hail Holy Queen, an Our Father, and a demand for great wodges of cash. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:31:59 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: Anna [was Re: [B7L] Re-Introduction] Message-ID: <047b01c02865$d34de7c0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally: > Una wrote: > <Sally wrote (and I'm sure we've had this conversation before! <g>):> > > We did - it was on the Other List, remember? I remember well. > <It could be that one of those factions at least would welcome the > opportunity to remove Servalan for their own ends.> > > True, but I'd definitely want proof that there was *someone* whom Sula was > involved with and who would side with her rather than exploit and crush her > and her little coup for their own ends - as I said, the episode tends to > scream (to me) single small group not connecting with or interacting with > others. Of course, *that's* just interpretation. There's actually no proof > that I can see that Anna/Sula was anything more than a apparatnik of the > Security system (have I spelt that right?) who married up, but whom no one > in real power positions had any interest or interaction other than social > with. None that she *personally* was a part of the power structure as Sula > Chesku, or had any power or influence at all. (If anyone believes there is, > feel free to tell me I'm wrong). No, I don't think there's any evidence for my interpretation above yours except that I just like mine more! <g> It's a nice way into Fed politics. I guess I see Anna as embedded within the Establishment (married to a High Councillor etc.), and that her actions probably have the tacit approval of others on the High Council, who would be happy to come out in support if the coup is successful, and just as happy to look the other way if it all goes pear-shaped. > <I love the idea that this scene represents a sort of crisis for the > Federation: that both the main players in the game (the military, the > civilian establishment) are there, in that room, acting out the politics > that will affect an empire.> > > Whereas I love it for the sense that we have the soon-to-be-has-been > battling the never-will-be-or-could-be, and neither realising that *real* > power is shifting away - unseen and unrealised by both of them - being > slowly drained away by people we never see (this of course depends on having > seen Terminal <g>). It satisfies the part of me that also likes 'Blake' for > the renewed impersonality of the Federation. Yes, that is an interesting way of looking at it: people battling over something that is essentially valueless. Altho' I feel it's 'Star One' really where the politics of the Federation take a radical break from the past. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:25:40 EDT From: Bizarro7@aol.com To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: 10 hour warning - eBay Blakes 7 rare fanzine auction Message-ID: <98.aa26421.27033334@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A very large batch of B7 fanzines are about to roll off on the Ashton Press eBay auction. Take a moment to peek in and have a look and grab a bargain or two before these rarities are gone forever. A large number of new listings have also been added to the bottom, and besides rare and out-of-print B7 zines, there are also QUANTUM LEAP, MAGNUM PI, STAR WARS, FOREVER KNIGHT and other fandom fanzines included. Don't let these pass without having a look; some feature gorgeous Karen River covers and your favorite B7 authors. Ten hours to go! Good luck! <A HREF="http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/ashton7/">eBay View About Me for ashton7 </A> (http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/ashton7/) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:16:51 +0100 From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk> To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] the Travis comparison Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C783@BRAMLEY> Content-Type: text/plain Una said - >>I see T1 as the Establishment guy who loses the game, and T2 as the working class boy made good who is subsequently screwed over by the Establishment who put him where he is. << As in John Lennon's 'working class hero'. And that's why we love him. Is Grief properly 'establishment' though? - he's a bit too much of a London gangster for that. I'd say SG is the lower class boy who rises up by pandering to the establishment (cf Noel Coward) and is prepared to tread on his own feelings to smooth over theirs. BC has stopped being able to control his feelings at all. BTW an explanation for how they look so different - perhaps like 'His Shadow' in Lexx, the insect essence is transmitted from the dying brain to a criminal with suitable robust constitution, this may have happened after the end of series 1. And perhaps again like Lexx, something went wrong with the last transfer, and the pesky outlaw mind is starting to intrude, and compromise the process. Hence they cut Travis loose. So why the continuing eye patch and false hand? The Federation must have mutilated the second Travis, and possibly the first one, and implanted false memories that Blake was to blame. This would convey two advantages: the improvement of the prosthesis over the ordinary hand and eye, and the emotional force it gave to his pursuit of Blake. How could they have known that it would all go horribly wrong... Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:06:58 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theories (was Typesetting preferences) Message-ID: <00b701c02881$b4c3d8c0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: <B7Morrigan@aol.com> > You actually saw the movie? > > Morrigan > who was convinced only women knew of the existence of "The Princess Bride." > Seen it twice, actually. Enjoyed it, but can't say I loved it. There were certainly some brilliant moments (the duel between Wesley and Inigo stands out) but it didn't seem to have any firm direction in which to point its satirical dagger. It strikes me as odd that swords'n'sorcery dominates 90 per cent or more of the rolegaming hobby, but I've yet to see a decent swords'n'sorcery film. 'Hawk the Slayer' probably came closest to matching the genre, yet was dreadful. 'Excalibur' is probably still the best of its kind, though rooted in legend rather than a true other-worldly fantasy tradition. 'Dragonslayer' was just too twee, and barbarian picaresques make me switch off. They're only worth watching to see if the bird gets her kit off. Neil the Curmudgeonly ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:35:58 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] the Travis comparison Message-ID: <04c901c0287f$89ec0d40$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison wrote: > Una said - > >>I see T1 as the Establishment guy who loses the game, and T2 as the > working class boy made good who is subsequently screwed over by the > Establishment who put him where he is. << > > As in John Lennon's 'working class hero'. And that's why we love him. Is > Grief properly 'establishment' though? - he's a bit too much of a London > gangster for that. I'd say SG is the lower class boy who rises up by > pandering to the establishment (cf Noel Coward) and is prepared to tread on > his own feelings to smooth over theirs. No, no - officer class through and through. Absolutely. Military family. But goes a bit bonkers and is therefore something of an embarrassment. > BTW an explanation for how they look so different - perhaps like 'His > Shadow' in Lexx, the insect essence is transmitted from the dying brain to a > criminal with suitable robust constitution, this may have happened after the > end of series 1. And perhaps again like Lexx, something went wrong with the > last transfer, and the pesky outlaw mind is starting to intrude, and > compromise the process. Hence they cut Travis loose. Does this mean we're going to see more of your splendid crossover? Una -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #270 **************************************