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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 285
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones. ]
[B7L] Science [ Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones. ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon & the kitchen [ Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones. ]
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demo ]
[B7L] Blake and Avon laughing [ Nicoline van den Berg <nicoline.van ]
Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing [ Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ dixonm@pobox.com ]
Re: Community (was Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing [ "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au> ]
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
[B7L] you can't get there from here [ "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.de ]
Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
[B7L] Redemption PR2 and hotel booki [ Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1 ]
Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing [ Mac4781@aol.com ]
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana. ]
[B7L] Travis model [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
[B7L] Eclecticon + zines [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones. ]
[B7L] Travis phone home! [ Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape. ]
Re: [B7L] Travis phone home! [ "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect. ]
Re: [B7L] Fantasy [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:06:52 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-ID: <OH8EIbB8Fk45Ew8d@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Pine.OSF.3.96.1001009175634.3474G-100000@bscomp>, Iain
Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk> writes
> This is why
>> there's the old riddle about how to prove someone else thinks. You know
>> _you_ do but you can't actually prove anyone else does
>
>A question which many scientists approach in a pragmatic fashion, cf the
>Turing test.
Dragging this vaguely back on-topic - I see Zen, Orac, Slave and Gambit
as self-aware, because they behave as if they are. I see the ship's
computers on Star Trek as not self-aware, because they don't behave as
if they are. And that episode about Data being proved sentient seemed
utterly trivial to me, because by the Turing test he's a person.
Everyone he works with treats him as just another lifeform.
I'm somewhat curious as to why B7 went with the idea of sentient
*computers* rather than androids, as regular characters.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:00:01 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Science
Message-ID: <LFvl4rAxc245Ew8q@jajones.demon.co.uk>
I see that Iain has already said much of what I would have said, and I'd
have got him to do the lecture on the anthropomorphic principle anyway,
so I'll just delete the rest of what I had to say elaborating on the
theme of "why this is a load of bollocks", as it's likely to make some
people feel they're being picked on if stomped by multiple physicists in
hob-nailed boots.
(Why does my spell checker have anthropomorphic but not bollocks in its
banks?)
--
Julia Jones
Of course I'm a bitch, I'm an INTJ. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:50:34 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon & the kitchen
Message-ID: <K19lUTA6T245Ewfm@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <39E26C53.37BF@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes
>For myself,
>pomegranates were preferred over apples, but Granny Smith apples
>definitely ranked up there.
You can't eat pomegranates while reading a book unless you don't mind
the pages turning pink. While I can visualise scenarios where this might
indeed be the case with Avon, they belong on The Other List.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:26:58 +0200
From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-Id: <200010102126.WAA23843@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Julia wrote:
> In message <003b01c03101$63ecb740$0d01a8c0@codex>, Una McCormack
> <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> writes
> I use some quite precise statistical tools
> >to do some quite specific measuring (and I get software to do this for me
> >now, altho' I used to do the maths on paper), but I quite specifically make
> >no claims to generalizability or repeatability.
>
> Which is one of the reasons I would classify it as science.
Given the way the definition of science is being argued at the moment,
I wouldn't: I'd call it statistics. There's a difference between
interpreting a specific sample of data, and providing a model by which
one may reliably speak about arbitrary samples.
steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:16:54 +0200
From: Nicoline van den Berg <nicoline.van.den.berg@tip.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001011001654.008182c0@pop3.tip.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi!
For a music vid, I'm looking for a scene in which Blake and Avon are
laughing. I seem to remember one at the end of an episode. The joke is on
Vila I believe, but I can't remember which ep.
If anybody can help I would really appreciate it!!
Nicoline
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:50:58 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001010185020.00b946c0@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Nicoline van den Berg wrote:
>For a music vid, I'm looking for a scene in which Blake and Avon are
>laughing. I seem to remember one at the end of an episode. The joke is on
>Vila I believe, but I can't remember which ep.
Try the scene at the end of "Trial".
- Lisa
--
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
From Eroica With Love: http://eroicafans.org/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:19:59 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-ID: <20001010.212000.-98771.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:20:19 -0400 Harriet Monkhouse
<101637.2064@compuserve.com> writes:
> Ellynne wrote:
> >I agree with that Lewis quote (which said pretty much
> > what I'd wanted to earlier only better and briefer), "Even
> > in your world, my son, that is not what a star is but only
> > what it is made of."
>
> Unfortunately, Lewis gives the line to a star who is a patriarchal
> figure
> in a long white shirt.
>
A father in a silver robe, actually, but why quibble?
Look, I'm willing to admit my own talent for tactlessness and that it may
certainly have played its part in the elements of this discussion that
are most getting on my nerves. But I somehow feel this is getting out of
hand.
OK, simple summary: Last I checked, science was not designed to speak to
those issues which seem to lie closest to the human soul (regardless of
whether you happen to think there is one or regard it as an interesting
metaphor). That isn't its purpose and it isn't its function.
As fiction, SF can deal with these or not. Fantasy can also deal with
them. Although they can deal with them in a variety of ways, what some
people gripe about being common in one may be what other people admire.
However, somehow this has reached a point where I feel I must either get
into a deep theological arguement of a kind I consider particularly
fruitless (and, like I said, I guess I did my fair share in bringing us
here, although I wasn't really trying to). For example, I now feel like
I need to address the issue of how some people view God and whether those
images (or supposed images) should be used in arguments and how.
Part of me also wants to go off on a long discussion about the origins of
the word 'shirt' which, apart from not having to be of any particular
color, could originally have been used to describe the kind of garment
you alluded to. I'm a little lost as to the point. I'm guessing it was
an attempt at humor, but it went a little past me, mainly since it seemed
rather flippant and misrepresentational to me about something I consider
sacred.
The above, as a peace offering, is probably hash. I never was overly
gifted at this kind of thing. I am far better at offering that tactless
comment that starts an argument (and reasonably good at getting thin
skinned and prickly myself). But, if we have to go on about it, could we
discuss something like what classical deities members of the show would
be most likely to get into? You know, would Avon favor Eris, goddess of
strife, or the Erinyes, goddesses of retribution? Could we make anything
out of their other name, eumenides, the kindly ones, in relation to
aspects of himself he doesn't like to admit?
Vila: Dionysius and Bacchus, no question.
Dayna: Diana, naturally.
Tarrant: Skip classical, go with Thor.
Cally: Athena and Vesta/Hestia
Jenna: Ishtar or maybe an Incan goddess warrior goddess whose name I'm
forgetting. Big on doing decorative things with her enemies.
Soolin: Definitely an Incan warrior goddess big on doing decorative
things with her enemies remains. Andraste, Erinyes (no interest in
eumenides), and others.
Blake: Nemesis? Andraste? Mars Vindicator? All those Greek heroes who
inevitably bring the disaster they were trying to prevent down on their
heads?
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:46:29 -0400
From: dixonm@pobox.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-ID: <9io7us0apj8an2khpoo8abceii0ru92soa@4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:06:52 +0100, you wrote:
>I'm somewhat curious as to why B7 went with the idea of sentient
>*computers* rather than androids, as regular characters.
Cheaper to pay for a voice-only actor? Or did you want an in-universe
explanation? If the latter, then why have androids when you can have mutoids?
--
Meredith Dixon <dixonm@pobox.com>
Check out *Raven Days*, for victims and survivors of bullying.
And for those who want to help.
http://www.pobox.com/~dixonm/raven.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:59:09 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Community (was Re: [B7L] Fantasy)
Message-ID: <000901c03358$31ded680$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk>
> > If you'll forgive me, I don't see community, even in the hotbeds of
Western
> > individualism, decreasing so much as taking different forms.
>
> E.g. this mailing list.
What I think has happened is that we've gradually drifted from full-time
participation in one community to part-time participation in several, or
even many. Once you used to work, rest and play with pretty much the same
people all the time. Now it's compartmentalised. The people you live with
are not those you work with, and your recreational interests can introduce
you to yet further groups. I'd guess that industrialisation accelerated
this shift, and the technological progress that arose from industrialisation
further facilitated it.
So I can say it's all evil capitalism's fault and bury the woes of the world
in my own pit of preference:)
Neil (suddenly far too busy to participate in this community as much as he'd
like to)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:12:14 +0930
From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing
Message-ID: <006b01c0335f$27fee5e0$30c326cb@marina>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lisa wrote:
>
>Try the scene at the end of "Trial".
>
I cringe when I see that bit.
I liked the joke about the intellegent flea but the 'fake' laughing that
blake does, just makes me want to hide in the cushions. Bad! bad! bad! <G>
Min.xxx
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:30:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1011073001-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 11 Oct, dixonm@pobox.com wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:06:52 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >I'm somewhat curious as to why B7 went with the idea of sentient
> >*computers* rather than androids, as regular characters.
>
> Cheaper to pay for a voice-only actor? Or did you want an in-universe
> explanation? If the latter, then why have androids when you can have mutoids?
Because androids always look like a man in a plastic suit, whereas Orac looks
like something original?
If an android looks perfectly human, then there doesn't seem that much point in
having an android. (Even Data had make up to change his skin colour)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:36:47 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] you can't get there from here
Message-ID: <000301c0336f$53d79e40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have just been reading an article in Interzone by Paul Brazier about the
differences between SF and fantasy (as they say 'small world'; 'big
project'). Anyway my header line is his 'test' to distinguish the two
genres, which I think works quite well: if you 'can't get there from here'
it is fantasy. If you (however tenuously) can it's SF. Hey, it works for me.
And some of the heated exchange we've just had comes down to this question
too IMHO. Is it worth worrying about things that don't impact on any way
with our own reality? I think people are fairly strongly divided on this
issue.
I wonder if people are similarly divided as to whether you can 'get to B7
from here'. That is, does B7 plausibly intersect, at least potentially, with
our reality or not?
Finally, Brazier extrapolates from this one question (can you get there from
here) to what it is that makes SF or fantasy valuable. And I think his
answer is quite a good one, and also applies to B7. For fantasy he says 'if
you can't get there from here then the story has to work by allegory,
parallelism, or recognition of the similarity between elements of the story
and our own true lives.' whereas 'The true nature and end of SF appears to
be transcendence'.
So fantasy begins with no anchor in our own lives, but builds a bridge back
to us through the truthfulness (hopefully) of its character interaction. To
me this describes quite well the way in which many fans appreciate B7. Myth,
fantasy and character relationships.
While SF starts (hopefully) with some grounding in the 'reality' we live in,
but then takes us far far away from the here and now, while keeping a kind
of realism intact. And that's the way that I like B7. I'm not saying that
way of liking is better though.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:54:03 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing
Message-ID: <LAW-F263dZ6VzvdrEb600000855@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
After Lisa wrote:
<Try the scene at the end of "Trial".>
Minnie added:
<I cringe when I see that bit. I liked the joke about the intellegent flea
but the 'fake' laughing ...>
Agreed, they tried this 'let's all have a laugh' ending several times (here,
Breakdown and Children being the worst examples) and it was always fairly
wince-worthy. Children is the worst, I think, since it added blatant
insensitivity to the cringe factor ...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:08:01 +0000
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
To: blakes7@egroups.com, Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>,
Couro Prido <CouroPrido@onelist.com>,
Project Avalon <projectavalon@egroups.com>,
B7newonelist <Blakes-7@egroups.com>
Subject: [B7L] Redemption PR2 and hotel booking
Message-ID: <39E47440.ACCF1C68@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The second progress report for Redemption went in the post this morning
along with the hotel booking form. If you have booked for Redemption and
don't receive this within a reasonable posting time from Wetherby, UK,
please get in touch. Also, it is important to get the hotel forms back
quickly so we can tell the hotel how many rooms to reserve for us.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson
Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention
23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:23:53 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake and Avon laughing
Message-ID: <36.c7df296.2715c3e9@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 10/10/2000 6:18:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
nicoline.van.den.berg@tip.nl writes:
> For a music vid, I'm looking for a scene in which Blake and Avon are
> laughing. I seem to remember one at the end of an episode. The joke is on
> Vila I believe, but I can't remember which ep.
As has already been mentioned, you're probably thinking about TRIAL.
I did a quick skim of my vid notes for 1st-2nd season and didn't come up with
anything else that has them laughing together, but my notes are neither as
complete or as organized as I'd like.
You might want to check out the end of REDEMPTION. My notes indicate Avon is
laughing before it gets to where Liberator is shown on the forward screen.
No mention of whether Blake is laughing, however.
If you can't find the perfect scene, another possibility is to find
individual scenes of Avon and Blake laughing and cut from one to the other in
the video, as if to suggest they are laughing at the same time/laughing
together. I don't know if the above mentioned REDEMPTION scene is an
isolated shot of Avon laughing or not. I also found mention of Blake
laughing (again, I don't know if he's alone in the frame) near the end of
WEAPON. My note reads "Blake laughing on couch."
Good luck with the video,
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:47:37 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-ID: <20001011224737.A22373@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 08:30:01AM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote:
> On Wed 11 Oct, dixonm@pobox.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:06:52 +0100, you wrote:
> >
> > >I'm somewhat curious as to why B7 went with the idea of sentient
> > >*computers* rather than androids, as regular characters.
> >
> > Cheaper to pay for a voice-only actor? Or did you want an in-universe
> > explanation? If the latter, then why have androids when you can have mutoids?
>
> Because androids always look like a man in a plastic suit, whereas Orac looks
> like something original?
>
> If an android looks perfectly human, then there doesn't seem that
> much point in having an android. (Even Data had make up to change
> his skin colour)
But now that I think of it, B7 *did* have androids -- just not as
regular characters. There was the Avalon android, and the Vinni
android. And in both cases they were designed to fool people into
believing they were human. Avalon was modeled after a real human
being, but we don't know what Vinni's origins were. Mind you, with
cyber-surgeons and brain-prints, maybe Vinni was programmed with the
brain-print of a real human -- which is why he thought he was human.
So, the androids were simulations of human beings; were they
self-aware? They certainly passed the Turing test, but they weren't
artificial intelligences the same way that Zen, Orac and Slave were,
I don't think.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Now it is a strange thing, but things that are good to have and days that
are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while
things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a
good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Hobbit"
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | <http://www.foobox.net/~kat>
\_.--.*/ | <http://angelcities.com/members/rubykat>
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:00:25 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Travis model
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1011150025-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Travis is now painted and ready to post. Those who pre-paid will have theirs
posted as soon as this rain stops!
I've currently 3 Travis and 1 Blake in hand and ready to post. After they've
gone, the usual painting delay of several weeks will resume.
As he proved easier to paint (an all black costume has some advantages), Travis
is a couple of pounds cheaper than Avon and Blake. Those who pre-paid will get
a refund of the difference on their credit cards. All new orders for a painted
Travis will be at the new price.
Ian hasn't forgotten Jarriere. There was a delay in him making the primary
model due to him adopting an orphaned kitten.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:21:50 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Eclecticon + zines
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1011102150-c72Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I expect to be doing a batch of zine printing next week.
I'm hoping (touch wood) to print Star Four (that's the new genzine) and also
copies of Pressure Point and Stadler Link.
If anyone wants copies of the above brought over to Eclecticon, it would help if
you let me know now and then I can be sure that I print enough copies. This
applies especially to Pressure Point and Stadler Link.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:42:00 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: Blake's 7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-ID: <DvgHCQBIKM55EwXo@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20001011224737.A22373@welkin.apana.org.au>, Kathryn Andersen
<kat@welkin.apana.org.au> writes
>But now that I think of it, B7 *did* have androids -- just not as
>regular characters. There was the Avalon android, and the Vinni
>android. And in both cases they were designed to fool people into
>believing they were human. Avalon was modeled after a real human
>being, but we don't know what Vinni's origins were. Mind you, with
>cyber-surgeons and brain-prints, maybe Vinni was programmed with the
>brain-print of a real human -- which is why he thought he was human.
Yes, this is what I find curious. There are self-aware androids in the
series - Vinnie being so good at the Turing test that it appears he
himself was not aware of not being human - but the *regular* characters
who are AIs come in a physical form that we'd call computer, rather than
robot. And some of the one-off characters are also self-aware computers.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: 11 Oct 00 13:27:16 PDT
From: Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Travis phone home!
Message-ID: <20001011202716.7298.qmail@www0e.netaddress.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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How did Travis get in touch with the Andromedans before he got to Star On=
e?
(They are unlikely to put out the equivalent of the cards in the newsagen=
t's
window saying 'We are about to invade your galaxy shortly. Disaffected
would-be button pushers please contact us at... by...'? And why not monit=
or
the broadcasts, lure Servalan to Star One, replace her & then get all the=
Federation military spaceships to line up nicely to be eliminated?
Avon would no doubt have told Servalan in Aftermath that Travis was dead =
on
Star One and that he had been in some sort of cahoots with the Andromedan=
s.
However, she would have no independent proof: the absence of Travis there=
after
would not be direct evidence - and on Terminal she lied to Avon about Bla=
ke.
For all she knew Travis was lying low, still chasing Blake. It would only=
be
at or after Gauda Prime that she could be confident that Travis was dead:=
if
he had been alive he would have appeared there. =
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home=
=2Enetscape.com/webmail
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:42:17 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis phone home!
Message-ID: <00a401c033c3$bfdaca00$3f0a9ad8@cgorman>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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(Apologies, Jacqui, I originally sent this to your mailbox only).
Jacqui Speel wrote :
> How did Travis get in touch with the Andromedans before he got to Star
One?
> (They are unlikely to put out the equivalent of the cards in the
newsagent's
> window saying 'We are about to invade your galaxy shortly. Disaffected
> would-be button pushers please contact us at... by...'? And why not
monitor
> the broadcasts, lure Servalan to Star One, replace her & then get all the
> Federation military spaceships to line up nicely to be eliminated?
I've got 2 ideas for this.
I would have thought that when he obtained the location of Star One, Travis
headed there straight away. Suppose he then encountered an alien scout
vessel, demonstrated to them his contempt for all mankind and convinced the
aliens to join forces. He then left to obtain some sort of supplies. The
main alien strike team then arrived and took over Star One, none of whom had
met Travis before. The Liberator then got there before Travis could get
back.
Either that, or Travis heard of the first alien attack in "Killer", started
to make his plans and somehow managed to contact those aliens. We don't
know if they are the same alien force, but they could have been. Annoyed
that there original plan failed, when Travis contacts the aliens with a new
plan, they jump at the chance to join forces. Both parties head to Star One
on Travis' signal.
I tend to like the second one more myself, gives Travis more credit for
planning things early, which we saw a lot of in the first season.
Steve Dobson.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:01:38 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fantasy
Message-ID: <200010112001_MC2-B69F-63CA@compuserve.com>
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charset=ISO-8859-1
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Iain wrote:
>when I was a little boy with a cute button nose =
>I really wanted to be Doctor Who.
Now I think about it, Iain as Dr Who makes perfect sense... Is this goin=
g
to turn back into a recasting thread?
Harriet
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #285
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