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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 70
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Blake and charisma
[B7L] Re: Cold Hard Truth
[B7L] Re: First Impressions
RE: [B7L] The Gender of Orac
[B7L] Avon on the London
[B7L] Avon on the London
Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
[B7L] Redemption links
Re: [B7L] INTJs, sounds of silence?
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad" - Spoiler included.
Re: [B7L] Re: First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
[B7L] The nature of web sites (was episode reviews)
[B7L] Re: complexity of character
Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
[B7L] Re: Episode Reviews
[B7L] Masterblake Theater
Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Re: [B7L] Blake and charisma
Re: [B7L] Re: complexity of character
[B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
[B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:33:49 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake and charisma
Message-ID: <20000314.234510.-405299.4.rilliara@juno.com>
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OK, I know it's been talked to death, but I got to thinking, the issues
been raised about Blake manipulating people and forcing them to agree
with him, etc. That still seems too harsh a way to say it to me. I think
Blake is one of those charismatic people who has a natural gift, one way
or the other, for getting people to go his way and that he's never
_thought_ about it in a moral context. It's one thing to have a leader
folks would walk into the fire for, it's another who never considers the
ethical obligations that come with that kind of power.
And yet, Blake can't be completely unaware. Despite his attitude in
fighting the Federation - it's a thing he can't imagine there being two
opinion positions on - he actually wants to avoid being in charge if the
rebels win.
This may actually tie into Blake's weakness as a rebel leader. On some
level, he doesn't want this responsibility. It's true he thinks everyone
should agree with him and that there often isn't room for discussion, but
he also wants them acting on their own, from their own convictions. It
may have kept him from taking a more active role in organizing with the
other rebel groups (sure, he occassionally worked with them, but he never
said, "We're delivering needed supplies to Avalon," or "We're going to
take the Liberator and attack from this side while our allies come in
from the other," or even, "Hey, any of you rebels need a lift?"). Even
when Avon says Blake will have to take charge, he says it in context of
the problems Blake can stop - all the groups _could_ get behind him, not
because he's good for the job (though Avon may have other reasons not to
say that).
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:47:08 -0800
From: Susie Wright <piscescat@home.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Cold Hard Truth
Message-ID: <38CF3FFC.D37785C9@home.com>
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The cold hard truth is neither cold nor hard... discuss...
Thanks for the laugh, Neil - tie-dye and all! Shades of Douglas Adams?
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:13:37 -0800
From: Susie Wright <piscescat@home.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: First Impressions
Message-ID: <38CF4631.E4E00D4E@home.com>
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Yes, they're wonderful... and they're making me want to dig up my vids
and watch the series all over again in a blissful marathon but alas life
has other ideas most of the time. Still...
And subtext is always welcome too, Ariana.
Mistral suggested: "Picture this: Liberator's monthly talent night. Avon
dressed in the
Deathwatch jacket, crooning to Dayna "Here's looking at you, kid...""
Oh dear.. run away, run away, run away!!!
Those goofy shoulder things on Avon's Deathwatch jacket are some errant
weirdness. Don't they have dailies in tv? Didn't someone notice?
Didn't Paul wish to make a complaint? Was the costume crew sacked? (no
pun intended)
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:40:25 -0000
From: Godrich Stephen <Stephen.Godrich@icl.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] The Gender of Orac
Message-ID: <8FA6C9AA73AAD211BCEE00A0C9D9E575023851EF@WWMESSM7>
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Orac is obviously male as it was stated inn the episode "Orac" that he took
his personality from his creator. Apart from that, the crew always referred
to him as a he or him.
I can't believe that Orac asked for directions. The all knowing Orac? He'd
never have lowered himself, he would have just pinched them from another
computer and never told anyone.
Not to worry, just my tuppence worth
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Ellynne G. [mailto:rilliara@juno.com]
Sent: 15 March 2000 05:45
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The Gender of Orac
Personally, I always thought Orac was a guy because of the voice, ditto
Zen and Slave. However -
Zen asked for directions - must be female.
Avon was the only one Orac respected and also once admitted to being in
love with him (while under the influence of evil sand that was - ahem -
evidently trying to get everything female interested in Avon). Draw your
own conclusions.
Slave - All I know is, he didn't get any of this nonstop groveling from
_my_ kind of chromosome configuration. You YXers can claim him if you
want.
Hmm, I keep hearing that old, Mary Poppins song. How did it go? "Though
we adore men individually / We agree that as a group they're rather - "
or whatever it was.
Mary Poppins and B7, now there's a scary thought. How would Avon react
to a woman whose traveling bag broke the laws of physics and who knew she
was practically perfect in every way? I wonder what that tape measure
would have said about him?
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:19:24 -0000
From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon on the London
Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C43C@BRAMLEY>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ellyne said -
>>Stuck on earth and deeply depressed after Anna's death, Avon may have
chosen a very dangerous way to get off planet, the one route no one will
double check - as a prisoner on the London <<
Yes, I think this is a very plausible plot. You could write a stand-alone
novel based on an idea of that kind. And he wouldn't have to be all that
depressed either. Just desperate to be out, to be free, to be safe. Very
Avon.
However I would like to see an even bigger plot - OK perhaps one that Avon
is involved in - that also encompasses Orac, and where the Liberator is not
merely a mistake that becomes a fortuitous accident.
Can it be a coincidence that Blake is one of the few people in the
Federation who has at least partially recovered from mind-alteration, and
yet is still alive. He is therefore one of the only people in the
human-colonised worlds who can overcome the Liberator's psychic defenses. If
you wanted to get hold of the Liberator you could do worse than ensure that
Blake was in the boarding party.
And why exactly did Vila drop that gun? It really is the most absurd event,
probably in the whole series (going out on a bit of a limb there). Because
it wasn't *time* yet. The first rebellion on the London had to fail, and
without the key players being killed. A very tricky event to get right.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:24:08 +1100
From: Andrew Williams <AWilliams@daikin.com.au>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon on the London
Message-ID: <4103E830BB67D211877400A0247B635E15EDC6@daikin_aust.daikin.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ellynne wrote:
>The other ships were the rebels come to rescue Blake, only they managed
>to tick of Zen or the Ultra on their way in
I think you mean the Altas, not the Ultras.
But otherwise an interesting idea.
Andrew.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:46:51 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: huh <huh@ccm.net>
Cc: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Message-ID: <wFRvqQAr5ez4EwG1@jajones.demon.co.uk>
cced as personal email just in case.
In message <009801bf8d65$41bbc020$3564e0d1@huh>, huh <huh@ccm.net>
writes
>Once again I find myself at a loss
>to locate this prize bit of Dreadful humour in my e-mail and would like to
>beg for the email from some kind and generous soul.
Try the archives, which can be reached through
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/b7list/
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:48:43 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.jones@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Message-ID: <zFtvqXAb7ez4EwHY@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <001401bf8d40$31a0ac20$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>, Alison Page
<alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> writes
>But for B7 it feels different; because the 'will-they-won't-they' wasn't set
>up as a big issue, I don't think you really get B7 'shippers' as such. Any
>of the relationships could include sex, without really being very romantic.
Besides, with most combinations, "doing it" is likely to increase the
tension, not decrease it. Depending on the fanfic writer, of course.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:18:39 +0000
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
To: blakes7@onelist.com, Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>,
Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, B7newonelist <Blakes-7@onelist.com>
Subject: [B7L] Redemption links
Message-ID: <38CEC8AD.6F9EC0CB@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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Just a request to those with web sites who fancy giving a plug to
Redemption. We'd be grateful for anyone who can add a link on their site
to the Redemption site - the URL is at the bottom of my sig. Let me know
if you do, and we'll give you one back.
If you want a banner to act as the link, you can find one on my site -
URL below my name. Just click on Upcoming cons and you'll find the
banner on that page.
For those who don't know, Redemption is a fan run convention with all
profits going to charity.
Thanks in advance to all who can help.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson
Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention
23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:11:32 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] INTJs, sounds of silence?
Message-ID: <20000314.231133.-405299.3.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:19:07 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes:
> Or, it could be that INTs can talk for hours if they feel they are
> contributing something of value (less kindly known as boring the
> hell
> out of people by explaining everything to them in multiple levels of
> detail when they wanted a yes or no answer), but just listen if they
> don't have anything more insightful than "That's nice."
It's so true. I've been very impressed with a lot of posts lately,
especially Ariana's observations. It's particularly interesting to
rethink these episodes more in a stand alone context, rather than
comparing particular elements in one to similar elements in another.
But all I can think of to say is, "That's nice, Ariana," and hope she
doesn't feel ignored and wander over to some other list (I'm assuming the
rest of you not so new people are used to it, but she's a greenie [a
friend told me they call them blues in France]).
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:03:12 -0000
From: "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Message-ID: <013f01bf8dfb$943e93e0$ace307c3@ariana>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
> Shippers are people who want to see the tension and ambiguity of an
> unconsummated on-screen m/f (*)relationship collapse into romance. AFAIK
the
> word was first used for Mulder/Scully, though the idea has surely been
> around for ages.
> (*) is it always m/f? the examples I know are
I don't know. I think there were a lot of DS9 fans around who wanted Garak
to be gay (with Dr Bashir as the love of his life ;). OTOH, I don't know if
you're referring to *deliberate* sexual tension. As far as DS9's Garak is
concerned, the reaction from TPTB (The Powers That Be) was to immediately
push the character into some kind of romantic relationship with a girl.
Anyway, to get back on topic, I was just adopting the term "shipper" to mean
any B7 fan who is interested in speculative character relationships, as
opposed to those on this list and elsewhere who had rather think about other
show-related aspects. Another good X-Files-based term is UST for Unresolved
Sexual Tension; something you find in just about every good TV show.
And yes, I agree I have spent far too much time in far too many fanfic
fandoms. :)
Ariana
http://www.alpha.ndirect.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:58:10 -0000
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad" - Spoiler included.
Message-ID: <00a201bf8e0c$7a7e1be0$cc8601d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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Ariana wrote:
Cally's appearance was suitably dramatic, too........ I did think Blake
outwitted Cally a bit too easily
Una wrote:
Cally's really disconcerting in this first scene; her not talking and
moving very suddenly are really unnerving. But tricking her with the old
'look in a different direction' trick is slightly irritating.
I said:
Why ? After all, Cally can't read minds, she can just transmit her
thoughts
To which Una retorted:
No, but you'd hope that she'd be less crap at being a terrorist.
Well, you would think so, especially since she was the communications
specialist from the group. Never find them at the back calling for help, or
telepathically co-ordinating everybody else's moves in a remarkably
co-ordinated guerrilla attack.
Actually, that was a big disappointment for me. Every time Cally went down
to the surface, I was expecting the battle scene where Cally directed the
others movements allowing them to overcome incredible odds, 'cause they only
needed to break cover to actually shoot, not observe. The nearest we get is
in Countdown where we get "by the rim, by the rim", and Shadow with "one two
three four - Cally". Oh well.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:44:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0314204413-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Tue 14 Mar, Andrew Williams wrote:
>
> Nina wrote:
>
> >FWIW, I don't think his outfit in Time Squad is that bad - it's not
> >particularly flattering, just sort of ordinary. For *really* awful, wait
> for
> >the outfit in Deathwatch.
>
> I'm always embarrassed when Avon wears his silver top (from 'Horizon') in
> one of the third season episodes. You can see the gap at the top where it
> does up - something we never saw in season two - making it painfully obvious
> that Avon has his shirt on backwards....
Actually, they altered the costume. It was originally identical front and back.
The cut at the front was done later.
I'm trying to recall if they also altered the sleeves at the same time,(but I
may be getting mixed up with one of Blake's costumes - or maybe both costumes
were altered). I've a feeling Avon's silver sleeves are less baggy in season 3.
What I don't know is why the alteration was made - unless Paul has put on weight
between seasons and they needed extra room across the chest. Or maybe the
costume designer just felt like a change?
I don't know why, but I do know that I preferred the costume in its original
form.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:28:46 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Message-ID: <000301bf8df7$93ddfa20$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Andrew wrote
> <moan mode on >
> It just means that you need to take your time before you post something
new.
> And I know I am taking my time on preparing the case for why the
Federation
> was NOT evil, because when I originally floated the possibility it ran
> contrary to 20 years of "established wisdom" tainted by off screen
> statements by authors/directors/actors. (Please, don't take offence at
> "tainted", I just can't think of the correct word).
> <moan mode off>
I think what Mistral meant by a 20 year head-start (22 now, for some of us)
had little to do with opinions or appraisals per se (such as the relative
evilness of the Federation), but everything to do with familiarity with the
show, the scripts, the characters, and most importantly the scope of fannish
discussion. The idea that the Federation is not evil is hardly new - I
first encountered it about ten years ago, when I first entered fandom, and I
doubt if it was all that novel then.
It's probably getting harder and harder to think of something that is
genuinely fresh, that has never been covered before, and probably harder
still in terms of Big Concepts.
A new arrival has got a lot of catching up to do. At least on the net it
can all be done by clicking, rather than sending off huge amounts of money
for zines, back issues of newsletters etc. Not that the net offers more
than a fraction of the totality of fandom, but probably enough to equip a
novice who wants to join in.
Neil
"I am not a man, I am a free number."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:59:11 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Message-ID: <20000314.231133.-405299.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:37:28 -0000 "Andrew Ellis"
<Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com> writes:
> From: Una McCormack
>
>
> >Ariana wrote:
>
> >> Cally's appearance was suitably dramatic, too. I must say I liked
> Blake's
> >> "What the--" exclamation as she kicked him down the gravel pit. A
> very
> human
> >> reaction. I did think Blake outwitted Cally a bit too easily when
> he got
> her
> >> gun away from her.
> >
> >Cally's really disconcerting in this first scene; her not talking
> and
> moving
> >very suddenly are really unnerving. But tricking her with the old
> 'look in
> a
> >different direction' trick is slightly irritating.
> >
>
>
> Why ? After all, Cally can't read minds, she can just transmit her
> thoughts
> (and be taken over by aliens).
>
> Andrew
>
And she'd had a very bad week. All her friends and companions in arms
had just died miserable death (it's a Federation made virus, these were
miserable deaths). As the only one uneffected, most of the nursing
responsibilities would have eventually fallen to her. Add some kind of
effort at burial or such (entombing the bodies in a cave [these quarry
like planets look like they should have one] seems the most likely
option, but that's still a lot of bodies to move - both emotionally and
physically traumatic). It may have been a while since she's had food or
water (assuming she had access to them, she's a traumatized, suicidal
soldier looking for an honorable death. She may not be up to noticing
those minor things like thirst). Once the adrenaline behind catching
Blake wore off, she wasn't up to a peek performance.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:53:19 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Message-ID: <000401bf8df7$95787040$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Andrew wrote:
> But Neil, by going through these "basic" things for yourself, you learn.
> When you are forced to write it down, you realise that you have missed
> things. When you re-interpret things, you come up with slight differences.
That one learns by doing I don't dispute. One day I might even learn to
write proper URLs for my latest web pages. But when you are 'forced to
write it down', there is no guarantee that you will realise that you have
missed things. And whilst reinterpretation may generate slight differences,
simple reiteration does not.
> And anyway, those excellent people who's WEB sites you indicated quite
> simply ENJOYED putting it all together. Please don't deny people the same
> pleasure of doing this for themselves.
But does the pleasure come from the mere construction of the web site, as a
coding exercise, or from satisfaction with the content? And is such
satisfaction located in the author's egoism ("*I* wrote this") or in his/er
expectation of its positive reception ("They'll like *this*)? Or indeed its
negative reception ("They'll *hate* this). Any idiot can string words
together, but not just any old idiot can do so in a way that actually says
something that is new and original and - in this case - contributes to the
greater body of fan lore.
> This is not scientific research, it's
> not "bad form" to repeat somebody else's work (although that does actually
> happen quite a lot in science).
As far as I'm concerned, repeating the same old timeworn guff *is* bad form.
If it's comitted in ignorance fuelled by enthusiasm, then it can be put down
to inexperience. If it's a conscious imitation of what has already been
done to death a thousand times over, it's a pointless waste of my time and
the author's.
> OK, so by just duplicating the old material,
> your not going to generate millions of hits from people who have already
> seen it all before. But a fresh approach is always welcome. There are a
> multitude of books, websites, videos, lecture courses on any subject you
> care to mention, and each work adds value to somebody somewhere.
Not true. Some books, websites etc add nothing of value to anything, except
possibly the author's self-satisfaction. A fresh approach is indeed always
welcome, but only if it *is* fresh. Not all new material is.
>The
> competition also serves to keep the authors on their toes and prevents
> complacency, many an established authority has been displaced when
newcomers
> were ignored or belittled.
>
This again assumes that any new input is automatically 'fresh' and genuinely
insightful, which is not necessarily the case. Though of course it can be
and sometimes is.
Neil
"I am not a man, I am a free number."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:23:27 -0000
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] The nature of web sites (was episode reviews)
Message-ID: <00a301bf8e0c$863f2460$cc8601d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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All,
I always seem to tread on toes without meaning to. Sorry.
Meridith.
I generally reply to the list. If it happened to be your post, its because I
got to that point when I thought I could contribute. Sorry if you thought I
was being personal.
Back to All,
I'm unlike Niel in that I have not been on line for 10 years. I'm learning
the rules as we go along. partly because thats the best way, and partly
because people don't always help. For example I once asked if somebody could
explain what all the TLA's mean. First reply - not on this list go away (it
might not have been Lysator - people here are usually only that rude when
favourite characters are slighted !). Next time I try, I ask if a URL exists
where I could go and see. This time silence (from this list). OK no problem,
but be patient whilst I learn.
> re Michael's site:
I think what I was trying to say was..... I think it is OK that Michael is
trying to do his own site, no problem. He will learn IT skills, will be able
to focus his own mind on what he feels about Blakes 7 and will be sharing
that with the world.
But I then went on to talk about referencing / crediting the work of others,
and how that might be different on the WEB than on paper. This is a very
important issue. I was trying to suggest ways of getting a full set of
content readily available from a given site, without duplicating area's you
don't yet want to work on. I am ABSOLUTELY committed to appropriate
references / credit for other peoples work, and obtaining permission to use
it if you want to do more than say where it exists. If that message was
diluted by the rambling style of my post, and a misplaced "if" I deeply
apologise.
I also had not even thought about the principle of "bandwidth piracy". I
guess you mean that the original site gets more traffic than if the new site
did not exist, or that it uses more storage space than the new site for the
same impact. In either case it costs the original site more money than the
new site, and I can now see that that might cause offence.
I do still think it is a valid option however for a site to use the resource
of other sites to produce a complete set of information, but rather than
a) John wrote this interesting article on the justice machine [hyperlink
which imports the text directly from the original site (run by say Peter)
into a formatted section of the page].
we should perhaps have
b) John wrote an interesting article on the justice machine which shows how
the actual process of going into the courtroom is just an anachronistic
hangover since the whole thing is agreed between prosecution and defence
before hand. If you want to know more just click here [hyperlink to the
appropriate page on Peters site with Johns article].
But what I get tired of, is seeing the exactly same pictures / text on half
a dozen web sites, without any citation at all. In the case of a photograph,
if it was scanned in the photographer / copyright holder (unless you took
the photo yourself) should be acknowledged, and if it was obtained
electronically, the original site should also be acknowledged. So what is
absolutely wrong is ......
c) <H1> Justice machines. </H> [direct cut and paste of Johns article].
The final alternative of course is....
d) Meredith wrote an interesting article on the justice machine which shows
how the actual process of going into the courtroom is just an anachronistic
hangover since the whole thing is agreed between prosecution and defence
before hand. Here is a copy of Johns article, reproduced by permission
[direct cut and paste of Johns article]. If you like John's work, why not
visit Peter's site at ...
So which approach should a budding HTML author use ? (b) or (d) ? Or should
you ask which the original author prefers in each case, so that he/she can
judge the trade off between bandwidth and advertising revenue for
him/her-self ? (c) is clearly unacceptable, and I assume (a) is bad form
because of this "bandwidth piracy" thing.
Or have I completely missed the point (again !).
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:12:19 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: complexity of character
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Andrew wrote:
>Whilst I agree with the principle, and the distillations
>seem (at first glance) reasonable, it just seems to me
> (from this list of traits only) that the entire crew is
>100% schizophrenic.
No, no, NO! You are not talking about schizophrenia, you are talking about
split personality. Completely different illness.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:21:06 +0000
From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Message-ID: <38CF8E42.A6DC2AE1@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
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Jeroen J. Kwast wrote:
> ORAC must be female and here's why :)
<snip>
> How's that?
Inspired!
Una
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:22:41 -0000
From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C441@BRAMLEY>
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Ariane said -
>> I was just adopting the term "shipper" to mean any B7 fan who is
interested in speculative character relationships, as opposed to those on
this list and elsewhere who had rather think about other show-related
aspects. <<
Well, you have cut to the chase then, because this is such a fraught subject
that it has passed from rows to splits to tactful silence to tentative
teasing to humour already.
The 'other list' is generally concerned with free and frank exchange of
views (tm) on the subject of physical relationships.
>>Another good X-Files-based term is UST for Unresolved Sexual Tension;
something you find in just about every good TV show. <<
You got that right. Though, worth noticing that 'unresolved sexual tension'
does not necessarily mean 'unconsummated relationship'. It sometimes seems
that it is when you get it together that the unresolved tensions really kick
in :-)
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:31:56 -0500
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>,
"b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Message-ID: <004001bf8e8c$528b74e0$f6684e0c@dshilling>
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Today's Wall Street Journal (U.S. East Coast edition) includes a Rolex ad
with only two lines of copy, spaced this way:
Sir Peter
Blake's Choice.
I don't make the news, I just report it...
-(Y)
----- Original Message -----
From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
> Andrew wrote:
>
> > From: Una McCormack
> >
> >
> > >Ariana wrote:
> >
> > >> Cally's appearance was suitably dramatic, too. I must say I liked
> Blake's
> > >> "What the--" exclamation as she kicked him down the gravel pit. A
very
> human
> > >> reaction. I did think Blake outwitted Cally a bit too easily when he
> got her
> > >> gun away from her.
> > >
> > >Cally's really disconcerting in this first scene; her not talking and
> moving
> > >very suddenly are really unnerving. But tricking her with the old 'look
> in a
> > >different direction' trick is slightly irritating.
> >
> >
> > Why ? After all, Cally can't read minds, she can just transmit her
> thoughts
> > (and be taken over by aliens).
>
> No, but you'd hope that she'd be less crap at being a terrorist.
>
>
> Una
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:03:16 -0000
From: "Ebony" <ebonyben@indigo.ie>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Episode Reviews
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This post is not intended to cause offence to anyone, Neil included. I
thought I had better put that in. Having said that, please excuse me while
I bash Neil over the head with his binoculars ;-)
Neil, at the beginning of this thread I could see the points you were
making, but your last post doesn't sound like the anarchist we're all used
to.
Andrew wrote:
> And anyway, those excellent people who's WEB sites you indicated quite
> simply ENJOYED putting it all together. Please don't deny people the same
> pleasure of doing this for themselves.
And Neil replied:
> But does the pleasure come from the mere construction of the web site, as
a
> coding exercise, or from satisfaction with the content?
Speaking for myself (and I'm aware that I haven't added new content to my
web site for over a year, and so may not be entitled to air this opinion) I
enjoyed the actual -construction- of the site. Yes, it was nice to see my
own work on the web, but my primary satisfaction came from creating the site
itself. Mind you, this could be because I had writers block at the time and
couldn't create anything else. <g>
> And is such
> satisfaction located in the author's egoism ("*I* wrote this")
No. That thought obviously entered my head, but in no way was it a major
motivation. And even if it was, is that wrong? I would have thought that
with so many people have severe confidence problems that this attitude (in
moderation) could be a *good* thing. I'm not defending arrogance, but I am
defending *justified pleasure in one's achievements*. And no, I will not
pass you the bucket... <grin>
> or in his/er
> expectation of its positive reception ("They'll like *this*)? Or indeed
its
> negative reception ("They'll *hate* this).
Neither. In fact I rather dread people reading my site when I think of the
expectations which some people seem to have of web sites, but *I* like to
see it there, so other people's opinions about my site are not as important
to me as they might be to others.
> Any idiot can string words
> together, but not just any old idiot can do so in a way that actually says
> something that is new and original
What's your point? Any idiot has a 'right' to string those words together,
surely? You don't have to read them if you don't want to. (I'm aware that
Michael asked us to read his site, but I've moved on from Michael's site in
particular to web pages in general here.) I had to re-read this post
because it all sounds far too elitist to be you, Neil :-) What's next,
forbidding those of us with less intelligence than you to speak in your
presence for fear that we might bore you?! We have the right to speak and
you have the right to walk away, but doesn't that same principal apply to
web sites?
>but not just any old idiot can do so in a way that actually says
>something that is new and original and - in this case - contributes to the
>greater body of fan lore.
Fan lore (IMHO) is contributed to by fans of all backgrounds and all levels
of intelligence, a patchwork of ideas and theories woven together, some
original and interesting and some fairly boring, that seems to have evolved
in a very haphazard, illogical way over the years. Reading your post, I had
a vision of a nice shiny hi-tech machine, and a queue of people lining up
with their little squares of metal to see if it was shiny enough for the
*great creation* that is fan lore. I know, I exaggerate <g>, but that's
honestly the image that came to mind. Just put it down to my odd thought
processes...
> Not true. Some books, websites etc add nothing of value to anything,
except
> possibly the author's self-satisfaction. A fresh approach is indeed
always
> welcome, but only if it *is* fresh. Not all new material is.
Call me a doormouse or whatever, but new talent is often stunted by such
very high expectations. Not everyone can be original Neil, not everyone has
the capacity. Even as I type, I can imagine you commenting that "they
shouldn't build web sites then." If that is so, I agree to differ. This
particular idiot will continue to fiddle with her site, just for the
pleasure of doing so <g>. My thoughts on web sites are that if someone
wants to put up a site, good luck to them. If I don't like it I don't have
to read it.
OTOH, it's a different story if they ask me to read their site and then take
the feedback badly.
Off to hide in a hole for the next 12 months until I post again :-)
Ebony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:58:14 -0500
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Masterblake Theater
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SERIES FIVE: The Jewel in the Sevenfold Crown (based on "The Roj Quartet")
SERIES SIX: Liberator Revisited
Charles Ryder: BLAKE
Sebastian Flyte: AVON
Basil the Teddy Bear: VILA
Julia Flyte: JENNA
Cordelia Flyte: CALLY
Lady Marchmain: SERVALAN
Lord Marchmain: TRAVIS I
Production report from the Beeb: We couldn't afford location shooting in
Venice, but they have a lovely cuddle in a rowboat in a chalk pit, and we
had an abandoned oil refinery instead of a stately home, but we did take up
a collection* and bought some striped shirts and white flannels for Avon and
he looks well tasty so at least half of you won't notice anything else...
-(Y)
* I know this is an Americanism, but "we had a whip round" would certainly
be subject to misinterpretation.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:54:30 -0000
From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C449@BRAMLEY>
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I feel much the same as Ebony, so thanks E for expressing it so well -
>>new talent is often stunted by such very high expectations. Not everyone
can be original Neil, not everyone has the capacity. Even as I type, I can
imagine you commenting that "they shouldn't build web sites then." If that
is so, I agree to differ. This particular idiot will continue to fiddle with
her site, just for the pleasure of doing so <g>. My thoughts on web sites
are that if someone wants to put up a site, good luck to them. If I don't
like it I don't have to read it. OTOH, it's a different story if they ask me
to read their site and then take the feedback badly. Off to hide in a hole
for the next 12 months until I post again :-) <<
I would like to see more people involved in fandom, more people writing
fiction (fanfic or whatever), more people making web sites.
Among what we old fogies think is rubbish the best new stuff will be found.
Remember Theodore Sturgeon's Law ' 90% of anything is shit'. But you have to
allow the 90% to get the 10%. Plus of course not everyone would pick the
same 10%.
I am really grateful that when I made my first comments on the other list
(about a year before I decloaked on Lysator) everyone was extremely nice to
me. Also when I first posted some fanfiction. Also when I completely made a
total screw-up of my first web site idea. So, all in all, I'd like to put in
a good word for kindness to newcomers. And continuing kindness to oldsters
who are rapidly losing braincells we can ill afford to do without.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:34:00 -0000
From: "david Smith" <davros.smith@virgin.net>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>,
<blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
Message-ID: <004f01bf8ea7$49e21860$5f64fc3e@default>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode Reviews
> > < Do people think of Orac as male or female (or gender free). Ditto for
> Zen
> > and Slave ?
Gender free ! Imagine coming out of hospital and being told your gender free
!
Still i think they must be .If you start thinking of Orac and Zen shagging
each
other then it's very hard to take them seriously.
Its a bit like GOD.He's traditionally seen as a man ( its the power thing )
but god is spirit and should be well above such matters as getting his or
her end
away.
> >
> > Hmmmnnn, IMHO Orac must be male and here's why
> >
> > 1. Orac never wants to talk, he's too busy doing his own things.
guilty your honour
> > 2. He gets irritable if someone questions his infallibility
Hmnmmn....the nerve
> > 3. He often sits around, seemingly doing nothing, as if he's part of the
> > furniture.
Excellent
> > 4. In Deborah Tannen terms, Orac never wants to share information for
> > bonding, he just wants to solve the problem and move on
I can just imagine a bonding session with Orac now that has comic potential.
> Also, Orac never tidies up.
Please . Next you'll be blaming him for stains on the worksurface.
David Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:09:18 EST
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake and charisma
Message-ID: <37.2901f97.26012bce@aol.com>
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Ellynne wrote regarding Blake and the issue of whether or not he was the
grand manipulator some say:
<It's true he thinks everyone should agree with him and that there often
isn't room for discussion, but he also wants them acting on their own, from
their own convictions.>
I'm pretty much in agreement with nearly all of what Ellynne wrote, with the
exception of this one line. I think Blake wants everyone acting on their own
convinctions, but usually has difficulty accepting the results when they
differ from what he wants them to be. Pretty much one of the reasons he and
Avon disagree so much.
It's not a pretty tendency, and I've been accused of it as well, so perhaps
I'm just oversensitive (or maybe he was just plain wrong!)
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:12:26 EST
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: complexity of character
Message-ID: <9d.30d1411.26012c8a@aol.com>
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Andrew wrote:
>Whilst I agree with the principle, and the distillations seem (at first
glance) reasonable, it just seems to me (from this list of traits only) that
the entire crew is
>100% schizophrenic.
No, no, NO! You are not talking about schizophrenia, you are talking about
split personality. Completely different illness.
Harriet
While I'd normally back Harriet 100% that it sounds more like Multiple
Personality Disorder, you may want to consider that it is at least possible
that some of the crew were hearing voices, and perhaps acting on them, which
is more schizophrenia.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:25:51 -0800
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
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Nina wrote:
>Why is it that we like him in leather so much?
>It must be much harder to get him out of...
What's the hurry? Imagine: While out hunting Hommicks - er, Sarrans, you
stumble upon beautiful Avon, unconscious, washed up by the tide on a
deserted tropical beach. His long dark lashes lie wetly against his
cheeks, he is gift wrapped in wet leather, very tightly wrapped as only
wet leather will do. You take him to a quiet, secluded cave. You have
all afternoon to peel, and pull, carefully unwrapping your surprise
package...
As they say about birthday gifts, anticipation is half the fun.
Pat P
--
"Never give up. Never surrender."
-- Galaxy Quest
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:28:08 -0800
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] First Impressions: "Time Squad"
Message-ID: <38CFD638.E5BB09CE@netzero.net>
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Andrew wrote:
>I'm always embarrassed when Avon wears his silver top (from 'Horizon') in
>one of the third season episodes. You can see the gap at the top where it
>does up - something we never saw in season two - making it painfully obvious
>that Avon has his shirt on backwards....
He's just doing his Einstein act: he heard the stories about how great
geniusii wander about the streets in their (fuzzy bunny) bedroom
slippers. Or with their pants on backwards...
PatP
--
"Never give up. Never surrender."
-- Galaxy Quest
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
--------------------------------
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