From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #74 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume00/74 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 74 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] The nature of web sites (was episode reviews) Re: [B7L] Darkheart website Re: [B7L] INTJs, sounds of silence? Re: [B7L] Greetings Re: [B7L] Companions on the Liberator Re: [B7L] Companions on the Liberator Re: [B7L] Companions on the Liberator Re: [B7L] The nature of WEB sites. Re: [B7L] Day Jobs Re: [B7L] sexing the box (was Episode Reviews) [B7L] Belbin Re: [B7L] Greetings Re: [B7L] Crossword clues Re: [B7L] Darkheart website Re: [B7L] Greetings Re: [B7L] Greetings Re: [B7L] INTJs, sounds of silence? Re: [B7L] Belbin Re: [B7L] least vulnerable spots Re: [B7L] Orac ( ex Episode Reviews) Re: [B7L] Re: Greetings Re: [B7L] Orac ( ex Episode Reviews) Re: [B7L] Lost in Cyberspace Re: [B7L] Day Jobs RE: [B7L] Day Jobs Re: [B7L] Aftermath (was Greetings) Re: [B7L] Animals (was Greetings) Re: [B7L] least vulnerable spots Re: [B7L] Belbin Re: [B7L] Animals (was Greetings) Re: [B7L] Lost in Cyberspace Re: [B7L] Belbin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:00:29 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] The nature of web sites (was episode reviews) Message-ID: <000701bf9098$66a6cf20$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Ellis wrote: > I'm unlike Niel in that I have not been on line for 10 years. As Judith and Julia both pointed out, it's a bit less than that. About 18 months would be nearer the mark. Actually it's nearer 17. I've been involved in *fandom* for something close to 10 years, starting with Horizon's newsletters and letterzines (for which I wrote horrendously long LOCs [that's 'Letter Of Comment']) before editing and then publishing my own rag - AltaZine - and putting out two fiction zines. Many of the TLAs I just sort of picked up as I went along, though it did take me a while to realise that IMO was a reference to Ian the Mighty Ostrich, struthionic superhero of the Serengeti. Most of the rest, as well as a listing of all these silly emoticon thingies, I found tucked away in the pages of the Rough Guide to the Internet, which has the virtue of being (a) cheap, (b) readily available in most bookshops, and (c) rather small, and thus easily hidden if you don't want people to see you reading it and think you're totally clueless. Neil "I am not a man, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:37:23 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Darkheart website Message-ID: <000401bf9098$5f845500$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una: > > So, you admit it - you *are* a servant of the Shuffling Ones! > > <hand briefly over eyes> No, Neil, the shuffling ones are servants of > *mine*. Hah! So you might think. But the acolytes of Rockhopper Emperadelie are adept at manipulating their prawns ... er, pawns. > > Oh my ghod, there's something at the door... > > That will be the crack squad of killer puffins. The ultimate proof! Oh, you poor misguided fool. Did you not know that puffins, as members of the auk family (alcidae, order charadriiformes) are a deception, a ruse, a greek-borne gift to ensnare the unwitting proselyte? Are puffins not holarctic in their zoogeographical distribution? Do they not *fly*? Whereas the true Shuffling Ones belong to the far older order of the sphenisciiformes, who mwaaghh mwaghhh mwagghhhh in their mwa-mwa-mwa-mwagh so that they might mwaagh-waagh-waaghhh us all! I jest you not - the end of the World is mwaaaagghhhhh! Neil "I am not a mwaghhn, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:56:35 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] INTJs, sounds of silence? Message-ID: <000501bf9098$6158c6e0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellynne wrote: > But all I can think of to say is, "That's nice, Ariana," and hope she > doesn't feel ignored and wander over to some other list (I'm assuming the > rest of you not so new people are used to it, but she's a greenie [a > friend told me they call them blues in France]). "Oh, her name is Ariana, And she's a newbie fan. Yeah her name is Ariana And she sure is a real newbie fan. And she's got the hots for Avon, I guess that means that she prob'ly ain't no man." The one competition I ran in AltaZine was to compose a B7 blues. The winner was Brad Black. The runner-up, and Highly Commended in all seven subcategories, was also Brad Black. Who only submitted one entry. The only entry submitted by anyone, in fact. Surely we Lysters can do better than that? All you need to do is compose a B7 blues, in the standard 12-bar format, preferably beginning with the line "Woke up this morning". As in: "Well I woke up this morning, I found Cally in my bed. Yeah I woke up this morning, I found Cally lying right there in my bed. I said, Hi there, my name's Soolin. Now #### off, you're supposed to be dead." Let's give John Lee Hooker a run for his money, eh. Neil "I am not a man, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:56:49 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Greetings Message-ID: <000301bf9098$5e91b7a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally wrote: > But - but could it be true? A secret devotee of h/c and Avon-torture in our > very midst and we never guessed. > > Confess all, Neil! We will understand!!! First of all, may I express my intention to spend the weekend scouring the Netherlands with a very large axe. This baseless, this *malicious* slander of the most contemptible kind is beyond my normally expansive capacity to tolerate, and I can only surmise that 'Marian' is not the innocent archivist she claims to be, but is instead a flightless fish-eating seabird of the southern hemisphere. (Hmm, maybe I should forget the axe and take a Leopard Seal instead.) Beauty in this case is surely in the eye of the beholder. Avon suffers, true, but he's not the only one. At least he survives, which is more than can be said for some characters in the story. And though there is hurt, there is no comfort, nor does he desire any (as the final section of the story shows him functioning more than capably without it). I suppose I ought to be flattered, but I find it difficult:). I spend hours and hours writing a pastiche/critique of the Hollywood action movie, giving it a moral standpoint overtly antagonistic to the reactionary values normally espoused by that genre, and what do people see? Avon suffering beautifully! Was it really worth the effort? I've long suspected I've been under-appreciated and now I know I am. Hrummpphhh! What did Iain call himself recently? He's got competition. Neil "I am not a man, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:09:47 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Companions on the Liberator Message-ID: <20000318.000948.-88697.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:57:24 EST "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes: > > > I hope this post I'm replying to was intended for the Lyst... > > >From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> > > >I like Dr. Who and the companions, but I have to admit, Tegan would > have > >been let off at the first stop. > > It's the accent, right? Actually, I asked what she could do. Well, she was a stewardess. There didn't seem to be much need there on either Liberator or Scorpio. She also spoke a native Australian dialect, which is something that never came up but maybe they would have gone to more planets with a translator. She also sketched well and had an eye for fashion. One comment on Avon's silver shirt, and she'd be gone. > > >Peri and a certain redhead - gone and gone fast. > > Oh, yes indeedy. Last week would not be too soon. > Yes, I don't actually have anything against Mel, but imagining her in the B7 universe _hurt_. All that pep and good cheer. I'm not sure if even Cally and Blake could have coped, and once she got around to trying to reprogramme some of that pep and cheer into Orac.... Words fail. I do agree about Liz, but she'd probably look at Avon and think, "What a coincidence! He looks like the dead guy!" As for Jamie, Avon would want to keep him around. He'd encourage him to tell stories about Scotland's less successful battles with England and then (where Jamie couldn't hear) tell Blake, "See? What do you think's going to happen to us?" Romana would not be accepted. That implies she thought they had some say in her staying. If it didn't work for a centuries old Time Lord she actually respected (sort of) there's no way it would work for Avon. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:09:47 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Companions on the Liberator Message-ID: <20000318.002406.-434609.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:57:24 EST "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes: > > > I hope this post I'm replying to was intended for the Lyst... > > >From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> > > >I like Dr. Who and the companions, but I have to admit, Tegan would > have > >been let off at the first stop. > > It's the accent, right? Actually, I asked what she could do. Well, she was a stewardess. There didn't seem to be much need there on either Liberator or Scorpio. She also spoke a native Australian dialect, which is something that never came up but maybe they would have gone to more planets with a translator. She also sketched well and had an eye for fashion. One comment on Avon's silver shirt, and she'd be gone. > > >Peri and a certain redhead - gone and gone fast. > > Oh, yes indeedy. Last week would not be too soon. > Yes, I don't actually have anything against Mel, but imagining her in the B7 universe _hurt_. All that pep and good cheer. I'm not sure if even Cally and Blake could have coped, and once she got around to trying to reprogramme some of that pep and cheer into Orac.... Words fail. I do agree about Liz, but she'd probably look at Avon and think, "What a coincidence! He looks like the dead guy!" As for Jamie, Avon would want to keep him around. He'd encourage him to tell stories about Scotland's less successful battles with England and then (where Jamie couldn't hear) tell Blake, "See? What do you think's going to happen to us?" Romana would not be accepted. That implies she thought they had some say in her staying. If it didn't work for a centuries old Time Lord she actually respected (sort of) there's no way it would work for Avon. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 05:30:50 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Companions on the Liberator Message-ID: <015b01bf90b1$0d3a5100$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Russ wrote: > Yes, but Orac was 'too useful to destroy'. I don't think the same could > ever be said of Tegan. But given a choice between the two, my utilitarianism would be the first thing to go out the window. The second thing to go out the window would probably be me, with a broken jaw. Neil "I am not a man, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:55:53 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] The nature of WEB sites. Message-ID: <015c01bf90b1$0e66ea20$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Ellis wrote: <Neil put some good points forward in a very constructive fashion. But what IS new is my opinion on the subject of the evil Federation. I am enjoying the exercise of putting something together, that is what really counts, and when I have finished, I would like to discuss it with friends. And if it turns out that I eventually come out with the answer that was obtained by even Neil's predecessors (some of whom are still around), then who has lost out ?> Obviously a lot of misunderstanding going on here. The concept of a 'good' Federation might not be new, but your own personal perception of its non-evilness probably will be. So I'm not saying that you shouldn't go ahead with developing it. Quite the contrary, it will almost certainly give us something to discuss, possibly quite a lot. So it will be a valuable contribution. <On the other hand, if we are only willing to talk about something that is genuinely fresh, or even a Big Concept then really what is the point. I hope people with Neil's view don't get bored at Redemption (or any other gathering of fans), with all that pawing over old ground, I intend to have a jolly good time.> So do I. I might even get around to discussing a bit of B7, but that's probably asking a bit much from a convention. The ostensible subject of fan meetings tends, in my experience, to be fairly low on the agenda. <Neil said in a second post > repeating the same old timeworn guff *is* bad form. If it's committed in ignorance fuelled by >enthusiasm, then it can be put down >to inexperience. If it's a conscious imitation of what has already been done to death a >thousand times over, it's a pointless waste of my time and the author's. <I could not disagree more. Enough has been said on the value to SOME people of examining old issues, so I won't repeat it here ! Here is a friendly challenge just to Neil. How many of your last, say 20, posts actually contributed a genuinely new concept, or was even "fresh". Remember to check back over 22 years of paper, electronic and verbal contributions to fandom.> Heh-heh, I just checked back over the last 20 posts I sent. Only about two of them commented directly on B7. One was a crossword clue, the other one elaborated on a certain parodic piece I stuck up on my website last week. The rest were peripheral to the series itself, and mainly about websites for some unfathomable reason. Perhaps I should clarify what I'm railing against by example. Take a hypothetical new B7 website. It reads as follows: **BLAKES 7 - Blakes 7 was a science fiction series made by the BBC in Britain. It was set in outer space and ran for 51 episodes. It was about a bunch of rebels on the good ship Liberator fighting against the evil Federation, led by Sarvelan. The sets and costumes weren't very good, but the characters were interesting, especially Avon. The acting was also excellent, especially Paul Darrow who played Avon. There was also a beautiful telepath called Cally and a cowardly little thief called Villa.** Come on, admit it - it's pretty crap. As I've already said, I don't think this matters if it's tucked away on a larger home site, just one topic buried amongst favourite films, fishing, vole-wrestling or whatever else the author happens to be into. But as a site *for* fans, as opposed to one *by* a fan, it doesn't make the grade, because it has little to offer beyond the author's obviously (and painfully) limited knowledge. Like Kathryn and Meredith suggested, a site *for* fans should contribute something 'new and useful' (which actually calls my own site into question, since while its newness speaks for itself, its usefulness is distinctly dubious). What I will say, Andrew, is that you've got me thinking harder about the exact nature of the 'freshness' and 'newness' that I've been advocating for the past few days. They are surprisingly difficult to define. And of course, anything is new to someone stumbling across it for the very first time, so there is an implied level of B7-awareness that a fan might be assumed to have. What is it? It can't be total knowledge of everything that's been said or written about the series, since no one can possibly have that (and if anyone actually does, it's maybe about time they popped out for some fresh air). But it can't be total ignorance either, because you have to be aware of the series to consider yourself a fan of it. Since levels of awareness might be hard to quantify, especially with so many inputs (the aired canon, fanfic, fan discussion, and the disparate locations - on-line and off - of the latter two), then we each have to define, individually, what that level is. Not as a cut-off point between 'true fan' and 'non fan', but simply as a mutual level of (assumed) understanding as a prerequisite for discourse. For example, if someone on this Lyst signs off with "I plan to live forever, or die trying", there is an inherent assumption that everyone else knows that s/he is quoting Vila, and probably also the further assumption that the quote is in Time Squad. Character and episode need not be cited. This is neither arrogance nor elitism. It is, in fact, quite the reverse - it is an acknowledgement of a shared understanding. Unfortunately, that mutual understanding is founded on an assumption that does not necessarily hold all of the time, so a newbie who's joined the Lyst on seeing and enjoying only the 4th Season stands to be perplexed or confused, and possibly feel excluded or even personally slighted. This is understandable - how can you acknowledge a quote from an episode you haven't seen yet, possibly not even heard of? - but it is also unwarranted. It's like that feeling you get when everyone is laughing at a joke you don't get yourself - you feel they might be laughing at you, even though chances are they aren't. That is obviously a bald example. In a more subtle form, it pervades much (maybe most) of fan discussion. A level of mutual knowledge and understanding is assumed because it *has* to be assumed in order for any discussion to take place at all. And such assumptions can be - in fact, inevitably will be - found to be wrong at times. So I guess you're right in that newness of perspective can ultimately only be relative to what you already know yourself. There might be absolutely nothing new at all to say about B7. For all I know, even the Penguin Conspiracy might have been done 20 years ago. But it is still possible to distinguish a fresh slant on an old topic from a rehashed distillation of the old stuff. In fact, someone coming in completely fresh is probably going to add something new by virtue of *not* having seen what's already been done. And I should reiterate what I said earlier to Ebony, though perhaps here in clearer terms. By 'new' I don't mean 'completely new', revolutionary. You don't have to level the forest, you only have to plant a new tree. Neil "I am not a man, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:02:51 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Day Jobs Message-ID: <015d01bf90b1$0ff09760$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana wrote: > Think about it. What do we call people who are clever, arrogant, highly > verbal, precise to the point of pedantry, NEVER stop arguing, have lots of > black suits, lie early and often, and would embezzle five million credits as > soon as look at you? I suspect some people would be tempted to call them Neil. Neil "I am not a man, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:51:12 -0000 From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] sexing the box (was Episode Reviews) Message-ID: <001f01bf90c8$73958160$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >(Penny's Predictable Response #55) We have the gender-neutral pronouns of >"Spivak": e,em,eir,eirs,eirself. Oh, I had forgotten that. There are a few other systems aren't there? I wonder if it will ever catch on. I am interested in what you were saying about Lacan, Kai, but I'm afraid I'll go way off-topic if I start. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:50:42 -0000 From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] Belbin Message-ID: <001e01bf90c8$725fc080$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone ever related the B7 characters to Meredith Belbin's analysis of team roles? Belbin developed his theories in the 1980s when he discovered that software development teams, despite being recruited on the basis of technical and intellectual excellence, were under-performing (surprise, surprise). he developed a theory that teams must instead be composed of disparate types of people, who each contribute their own different strengths. Which is exactly what I think, and which I think ties in very well with B7. I do find Belbin's role analysis a little bit simplistic, but never mind. If you want to find out what team role you fulfil take a paper test - you can download a PDF by following the link from http://soe.unn.ac.uk/Physics/sup/ssg.htm It takes about 5 minutes to complete. (Alison's prediction - nearly everyone comes out as 'Plant', which is the trendy one to be anyway) Here are the nine roles with the strengths and weaknesses of each. I have mucked about with the role names a bit, because I find the originals a bit clumsy. Anyone want to assign the B7 team to these roles? 3 thinking roles: Plant - creative, unorthodox, imaginative / weak communicator and manager of ordinary people Monitor - strategic, discerning, sees problems / lacks drive, poor at motivating people Specialist - professional, dedicated, skilful / narrow, does not work outside own field 3 action roles Driver - dynamic, challenging, motivating / aggressive, bullying Implementor - reliable, efficient, practical / inflexible, hidebound, unimaginative Finisher - painstaking, conscientious, delivers on time / anxious, refuses to delegate 3 people roles Team player - sociable, mild, accommodating, averts friction / indecisive in a crisis Investigator - extrovert, enthusiast, communicator, develops contacts / loses interest easily Co-ordinator - mature, trusting, clarifies goals, motivates others / may not be very skilful, clever or creative Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:12:26 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Greetings Message-ID: <005401bf90ca$dc2a0c80$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Sally's: >> But - but could it be true? A secret devotee of h/c and Avon-torture in >our >> very midst and we never guessed. >> >> Confess all, Neil! We will understand!!! Neil replied: >First of all, may I express my intention to spend the weekend scouring the >Netherlands with a very large axe. I'll put the kettle on, then. Do you like milk and sugar in your tea? >This baseless, this *malicious* slander >of the most contemptible kind is beyond my normally expansive capacity to >tolerate, and I can only surmise that 'Marian' is not the innocent archivist >she claims to be, Where did I claim to be an *innocent* archivist? Or do you think that goes with the job? :-) >but is instead a flightless fish-eating seabird of the >southern hemisphere. You mean a penguin? Well, I'm short and plump... >(Hmm, maybe I should forget the axe and take a Leopard >Seal instead.) O dear, now I start seeing Neil as a Leopard Seal - sleek and graceful... :-) >Beauty in this case is surely in the eye of the beholder. No, no, surely seals *are* sleek and graceful? > Avon suffers, >true, but he's not the only one. At least he survives, which is more than >can be said for some characters in the story. Yes, and that's one of the things I liked your story for. I can't stand stories in which he dies. > And though there is hurt, >there is no comfort, nor does he desire any (as the final section of the >story shows him functioning more than capably without it). Yes, he's very in character (IMO). Another thing I liked about that story. >I suppose I ought to be flattered, but I find it difficult:). I spend hours >and hours writing a pastiche/critique of the Hollywood action movie, Sorry, never watch them. :-) >giving >it a moral standpoint overtly antagonistic to the reactionary values >normally espoused by that genre, and what do people see? Avon suffering >beautifully! Was it really worth the effort? Yes! I *love* to see Avon suffer; he does it so beautifully. <eg> >I've long suspected I've been under-appreciated and now I know I am. There, there... <big hug> >Hrummpphhh! What did Iain call himself recently? He's got competition. As for the tea, will Earl Grey do, or would you rather have Darjeeling? (Oh, and be so good to leave your axe outside.) :-) Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:26:57 -0000 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Crossword clues Message-ID: <01bb01bf90cd$0e258aa0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil (you've been busy on the Lyst today) wrote: > Your turn. Or maybe try "Butcher imposed to silence hounds (6)" Is that Bayban? (I'm shit at crosswords.) Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:26:09 -0000 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Darkheart website Message-ID: <01ba01bf90cd$0de3edc0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil: > Una: > > > So, you admit it - you *are* a servant of the Shuffling Ones! > > > > <hand briefly over eyes> No, Neil, the shuffling ones are servants of > > *mine*. > > Hah! So you might think. But the acolytes of Rockhopper Emperadelie are > adept at manipulating their prawns ... er, pawns. Hoiho, hoiho, it's off to work we go... (and that probably gets the prize for being a joke which I think only 3 people on this list could potentially get and thus being the *least funny thing ever written here*). > > > Oh my ghod, there's something at the door... > > > > That will be the crack squad of killer puffins. > > The ultimate proof! Oh, you poor misguided fool. Did you not know that > puffins, as members of the auk family (alcidae, order charadriiformes) As an aside, I *did* know that bit. I like puffins. > I jest you not - the end of the World is mwaaaagghhhhh! Hush, child. It will all be better in the morning. Here, have some fresh fish. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:21:45 -0000 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Greetings Message-ID: <01b901bf90cd$0da6bdb0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil whimpered: > I've long suspected I've been under-appreciated and now I know I am. Nah, we appreciate you for *exactly* what you are. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:30:46 -0000 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Greetings Message-ID: <01c601bf90cd$7d539bb0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marian wrote to Neil: > O dear, now I start seeing Neil as a Leopard Seal - sleek and graceful... and > There, there... <big hug> Marian, you are my favourite person in the whole world. So, do you like the episode 'Animals'? Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:32:42 -0500 From: Meredith Dixon <dixonm@pobox.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] INTJs, sounds of silence? Message-ID: <dpp6ds8d27dkrr51l8uacb3p1vvt5nmd41@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >"Well I woke up this morning, I found Cally in my bed. >Yeah I woke up this morning, I found Cally lying right there in my bed. >I said, Hi there, my name's Soolin. Now #### off, you're supposed to be >dead." For some reason, which may or may not be related to the fact that I slipped on our footbridge Thursday afternoon, and fell down (not, fortunately, off), sustaining a concussion, thoroughly bruising myself, and hurting my left foot enough that I'm still on heavier-duty-than-usual prescription painkillers, I found this hilarious. Thanks, Neil! I can't think of a suitable blues at the moment, but this might be a good time for me to get back to work on that story about Mrs. Pollifax on the Liberator. :) -- Meredith Dixon <dixonm@pobox.com> Check out *Raven Days*, for victims and survivors of bullying. And for those who want to help. http://www.pobox.com/~dixonm/raven.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:46:17 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Belbin Message-ID: <38D36C89.18D168AA@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page wrote: > Here are the nine roles with the strengths and weaknesses of each. I have > mucked about with the role names a bit, because I find the originals a bit > clumsy. Anyone want to assign the B7 team to these roles? > Finisher - painstaking, conscientious, delivers on time / anxious, refuses > to delegate I could definitely see Cally as a finisher-- she always strikes me as efficient and conscientious, doing her part with a minimum of fuss, pitching in to assist the others, and very hands on. Does a bit of everything, really. One of those rather wonderful people who tend to keep things going without making a production out of it. Mistral -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:09:33 EST From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] least vulnerable spots Message-ID: <68.1ecf8d2.2604cbfd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marian wrote: > - Especially after Carol Mc made me so welcome. [Clever tactic, > Carol :-) - I now feel obliged to say nice things about Tarrant.] Well, I don't like to brag, but... :) > So, correction: > - Tarrant: his perm (even when he crash lands there's not a curl out of > place). > > Marian (going into hiding anyway...) As well you should. His perm is extremely vulnerable. Shoot him with a water pistol and he goes all frizzy. Talk about suffering... <sniff> Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 04:30:56 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Orac ( ex Episode Reviews) Message-ID: <38D376FF.66F4E4C6@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Ellis wrote: > Plenty of sexual stereotypes for both male and female. But I think neuter > actually. Not for any "its just a box" kind of argument, I just couldn't > stand the thought of a nursery full of little Orac's. Jenna did suggest that they might breed Orac and IMIPAK. Emmy being a female name, I guess that makes Orac male. Mistral -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:22:12 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Greetings Message-ID: <003201bf90dc$f8bcf080$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avona asked: >Marian... did you read about a month's worth of archives before posting? My remarks regarding the Tarrant Nostra probably answered your question. :-) I've been following the discussions on the Lyst via the archives since I got connected to the internet (about four months ago). Have started working methodically through the whole archive now. It took me this long to find the courage to susbscribe. Not that I was afraid to introduce myself :-) but I'm an absolute moron with computers and live in continual dread of making some terrible mistake with emailing, which will bring the whole system crashing down. >2. Neil protested against the concept of it. I agree with him that there's nothing beautiful about suffering. It's just that *Avon* does it so beautifully. :-) >You've delighted many of us with your very first post. All you people on the Lyst are delighting *me*. It's fun to have found a place to discuss B7. >ANd if you simply hit upon the apropos means of introduction, you're >meant to be with us. :) You mean because I did study the Lyst I am not? <grin> Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:26:57 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Orac ( ex Episode Reviews) Message-ID: <003901bf90dd$a2e12720$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re the question of Orac's gender: Avon consistantly refers to Orac as "it". And he's the expert. :-) Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:35:04 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Lost in Cyberspace Message-ID: <003e01bf90de$c7aff440$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana: >>3. Why doesn't Zen ever say "You've got mail"--is Blake concerned about the >>ability to track Federation Online users? Or did he get the credit card >bill >>with 46 hours logged on to Ultravixens of Freedom City? Andrew Ellis: >Well, to start with, nobody knew the e-mail address, but because this bunch >of criminals are so against paying their phone bills, they rush of to a >Federation IP routing station, go through an elaborate ploy steal the core >of the switch and bypass the whole billing system. They even lie to Blake >and tell him its for breaking Federation codes, when everybody knows that >Zen could do that anyway. <ROFL> That's why I enjoy this list so much: the humour, the irreverence, the sheer fun! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:40:42 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Day Jobs Message-ID: <004301bf90df$8ebcae20$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana asks: >What do we call people who are clever, arrogant, highly >verbal, precise to the point of pedantry, NEVER stop arguing, have lots of >black suits, lie early and often, and would embezzle five million credits as >soon as look at you? Politicians? Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:36:01 -0000 From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com> To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: RE: [B7L] Day Jobs Message-ID: <01BF90DF.84E3EDA0@host213-1-69-172.btinternet.com> >> Think about it. What do we call people who are clever, arrogant, highly >> verbal, precise to the point of pedantry, NEVER stop arguing, have lots >>of black suits, lie early and often, and would embezzle five million >>credits as soon as look at you? >I suspect some people would be tempted to call them Neil. But only without the suits...... Louise ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:13:53 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Aftermath (was Greetings) Message-ID: <005901bf90e4$33ea4e80$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My post to which Murray Smith replies seems to have gone only to him instead of the whole list. (Sorry, I'm still learning.) Me: >>I agree, but there are two things in Aftermath that always rattle me. >> >>Firstly, Avon urging Dayna not to kill the Sarran because "he's no danger >>now" while "you've only got one arrow left and might need it for someone >>else" would be a far better argument. Murray: >It sounds like an echo of Blake telling Travis that he didn't matter enough >to kill, as he was no threat to him. Besides, I'm sure that Avon felt that >Dayna was a competent enough warrior not to need reminding that she only >had one arrow left. You're right. He seems to have a healthy respect for warrior women. :-) Me again: >>Secondly, him leaving Orac behind where Servalan can steal it seems totally >>out of character. Surely he would want to keep that useful gadget with him >>all the time? Either he's still groggy from having been knocked out on >>embarkation from Liberator, or he's so overwhelmed by people being actually >>nice to him that it makes him forget his inborn caution. ;-) Murray: >I take your point about not having Orac with him. Certainly I would agree >that his being knocked out may have been a factor; but I would put his lack >of caution down to his overestimation of the Mellanbys' ability to deal >with Servalan. Hal made it clear at the beginning regarding Servalan that >'...I will take whatever actions are necessary to protect my freedom. For >her sake, it would be better that she doesn't remember'. > >While these were fine words, they were undermined by two things. First, due >to having to only deal with Sarrens and trusting one another, the Mellanbys >took no precautions regarding the keeping of loaded guns around the place; >because Servalan finds it very easy to obtain a small, green gun. Second, >this sloppiness (while understandable) was added to by a belief that >Servalan was not much of a threat, because the Federation was supposedly >finished. Avon told Hal that he had 'very little to fear' from Servalan; >and the later made Hal take the fatal step of lowering his gun by saying >that 'The Federation is finished. You have nothing to fear anymore'. To be >fair to Hal, even Avon fell victim to this complacency, despite having >fought the Federation, and having enough sense to reject Servalan's offer. > >Does this make any sense? Yes, although I still think it out of character for Avon to be so trusting - or to be prepared to rely on a blind man to guard Orac. So it's probably a combination of overestimating Mellanby, underestimating Servalan, the false sense of security the underwater dwelling provides and his headache. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:44:37 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Animals (was Greetings) Message-ID: <006201bf90e8$7c0e7d40$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una asked: >So, do you like the episode 'Animals'? Not really. Too much Justin and not enough Avon, Vila and Soolin for my taste. :-) Wicked thought: suppose for a moment that Avon was not played by Paul Darrow (unimaginable, I know; just try it for the sake of argument). Instead, Paul was given the guest role of Justin. Now, would that have made 'Animals' our all time favourite episode? Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:04:04 +0100 From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] least vulnerable spots Message-ID: <008501bf90eb$33de8a80$87ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol Mc wrote regarding Tarrant: >His perm is extremely vulnerable. Shoot him with a >water pistol and he goes all frizzy. Talk about suffering... <sniff> Now *that* would be beautiful suffering. :-) Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:55:28 -0000 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Belbin Message-ID: <021901bf90f0$9cdf64a0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison wrote: > Has anyone ever related the B7 characters to Meredith Belbin's analysis of > team roles? Hurrah! Personality test! > (Alison's prediction - nearly everyone comes out as 'Plant', which is the > trendy one to be anyway) Well, it says to go with your highest two totals, but three came out neck-and-neck, and the other 6 barely scored at all, so apparently I'm a combination of a plant, an investigator, and a finisher. Which I note from Alison's categorizations means that I score highly on one element from each of the three categories of roles, proving what a completely well-adjusted, if fascinatingly complex, and obviously marvellous person I really am. Oh yes, 'deluded saddo', that was fourth one. This was a bit of an odd questionnaire to take as I haven't worked in a group for years, and try to avoid that situation if I can, which probably says something else. > Anyone want to assign the B7 team to these roles? What do you think?!? > Monitor - strategic, discerning, sees problems / lacks drive, poor at > motivating people Avon. > Driver - dynamic, challenging, motivating / aggressive, bullying Blake. > Team player - sociable, mild, accommodating, averts friction / indecisive in > a crisis Gotta be Vila. Except it doesn't mention lazy. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:00:43 -0000 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Animals (was Greetings) Message-ID: <023001bf90f3$2d7c5980$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marian: > Una asked: > >So, do you like the episode 'Animals'? > > > Not really. Too much Justin and not enough Avon, Vila and Soolin for my > taste. :-) That's damn close to praise. Hurrah! > Wicked thought: suppose for a moment that Avon was not played by Paul Darrow > (unimaginable, I know; just try it for the sake of argument). Instead, Paul > was given the guest role of Justin. Now, would that have made 'Animals' our > all time favourite episode? <shocked voice> You mean 'Animals' *isn't* our all time favourite episode? Have I been misunderstanding everyone for all this time? Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:34:31 -0500 From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Lost in Cyberspace Message-ID: <004501bf90f7$e7f24780$13694e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm fascinated by the pre-Personal Computer assumption that a hartless whizzo computer feend* would be a hardware man. (No, really...HARDWARE!! The stuff you open up and prod with screwdrivers...) Nowadays I think we would imagine Avon to be a programmer or a sysadmin, and you can be a very effective hacker without being able to soup up top-of-the-line spaceships. Avon never says anything like "Blake, you're supposed to be the engineer, YOU fix it, let me know if you want me to generate a computer model for the smallest amount of fuel we can use to damage the largest number of Federation bases." Of course, as my earlier posts show, I don't think Blake could fix a cheese sandwich... But I'm sure that Avon hates to see bumbling amateurs mess up things that he could do much better himself (a set which, as he sees it, comprises almost everything). That's why I can't really imagine him surviving Gauda Prime. All pragmatists know that you save the last bullet for yourself, and all perfectionists know that if you want something done right you have to do it yourself... -(Y) *Thanks Neil--I'm still grinning like skool dog. When _I_ take over the world you can have 70%. (With interest rates this low, I can afford the float for less than a week.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:17 PM Subject: [B7L] dialogue gems excerpt. > > AVON: A blow for freedom. > > GAN: Yes, our freedom. For a clever man you're not very bright. Deaf, > > dumb and blind how are they going to catch us? > Much discussion was made a couple weeks ago about Avon p utting down > Gan's intellect. What agbout this? Looks like Gan is the one without > much patience for Avon. And the snarly one responded by criticizing > Blake's leadership. I suppose that was the best he could think of to > divert attention from being bitten by Gan's wit. > > Thanks for bringing that up, Ariana. > > (My apologies to everyone for being so far behind on the Lyst. My email > was down for most of the week) > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:58:40 -0000 From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Belbin Message-ID: <003d01bf9103$e0ac9780$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is what I thought: >Plant - creative, unorthodox, imaginative / weak communicator and manager of >ordinary people This has got to be Mr Charisma, Avon >Monitor - strategic, discerning, sees problems / lacks drive, poor at >motivating people Cally >Specialist - professional, dedicated, skilful / narrow, does not work >outside own field Soolin >Driver - dynamic, challenging, motivating / aggressive, bullying Tarrant >Implementor - reliable, efficient, practical / inflexible, hidebound, >unimaginative Jenna >Finisher - painstaking, conscientious, delivers on time / anxious, refuses >to delegate What Avon began as >Team player - sociable, mild, accommodating, averts friction / indecisive in >a crisis Gan, Vila >Investigator - extrovert, enthusiast, communicator, develops contacts / >loses interest easily I don't think they've got one of these. 'Hey, Una, perhaps there was a vacancy on the Liberator.' >Co-ordinator - mature, trusting, clarifies goals, motivates others / may not >be very skilful, clever or creative Blake -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #74 *************************************