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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 94
Today's Topics:
[B7L] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking=2E=2E=2E_?=
Re: [B7L] Time Squad - A Cally Perspective (long)
Re: [B7L] Take heed of what you post...
[B7L] manners
[B7L] Que Sera Sera
[B7L] What do we want from Horizon?
[B7L] Re: The Cally POV
Neil's girls
Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage
Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage
[B7L] Carmen
Re: [B7L] REM lyrics
Re: [B7L] forwarded posts
Re: [B7L] manners
[B7L] An example to us all
[B7L] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BB7L=5D_Re:=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking..._?=
Re: [B7L] Avon's skills and Blake knowing about them
[B7L] Avon's skills
[B7L]
Re: [B7L] REM lyrics
[B7L] Avon's skills
[B7L] Outfits
[B7L] Penguins again
[B7L] Re: Anna
[B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures
RE: [B7L] Andromedan Battle Hym and Commander's Lot
[B7L] forwarded posts
Re: [B7L] Horizon discussion
[B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
Re: [B7L] Re: The Cally POV
Re: [B7L] Avon's skills
RE: [B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures
RE: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:46:04 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.helsinki.fi>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking=2E=2E=2E_?=
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0004011940080.14847-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hello.
Since someone opened the floodgate, a few thoughts about this whole
lurking business and what makes you want to post... I've been on this list
for about six months now and have made less than twenty posts during that
time, so I think that makes me an "occasional" poster. It has been noted
that the recent Horizon debate encouraged many lurkers to post, which I
agree is very good. However, I was reminded of my own start on this list
and how completely opposite my reaction was to a certain other hot issue.
I subscribed around the same time as the original "Lightergate" affair
erupted, and though I missed quite a lot of the debate because of the
technical problems I experienced with my whole e-mail setup at the time, I
do remember thinking whether I should just make a graceful turn of exactly
180 degrees and leave without ever posting anything. I didn't of course,
as I eventually posted something on the subject of episode quality. I
delurked because I wanted to talk about that subject and I felt I had
something to say about it, whereas in-fandom power politics and smear
campaigning (as the whole affair appeared in my eyes then) wasn't
something that I could say anything about nor wanted to associate myself
with. But that is just to say that different people are attracted to
different things (and *not* to criticise anyone's approach), and as this
list is a forum for discussing (nearly) everything dealing with Blake's 7,
you are nearly always faced with things both relevant and irrelevant to
yourself. Especially because it's about Blake's 7.
The thing that amazed me the most is how different people are in their
appreciation of Blake's 7. What makes the series attractive, why do you go
back to it, how do you enjoy it - ultimately what is that ever-elusive
signifier that this one given name with its possessive suffix and single
numeral stands for in your mind? Everyone has his/her own answers to these
questions. Some of them have been really surprising, some inspirational,
practically all of them entertaining. A cliche I know, but the variety of
approaches and interpretations is what makes this such an interesting
forum. I can't say I have enthusiasm for all approaches, but then no one
has. The point is that things move and develop. Whenever I get
disillusioned and start believing that what I've joined is actually
nothing more than the Cult of Avon, someone throws in a new and
interesting thread, and restores my faith.
So why do I post or don't post? Well, I read through every digest. If the
thread doesn't interest me (e.g. generally anything to do with any part of
Avon's anatomy, with the possible exception of his missing tooth) or
doesn't seem have relevance to me (e.g. the Horizon discussion), I ignore
it. If it does interest me but I have nothing to relevant to add, I
usually don't post (though I think I should at least acknowledge them more
readily). In other cases, I will write something, time and tide
allowing. My time is often very short, and as I am in digest mode, it's
often old news by the time I read about it and someone has already voiced
my thoughts. Tide here means simply that I'm not always equally receptive
to different things. When I've got other things on my plate, I may only
give a passing glance to a post I would in other circumstances reply
to. Enthusiasm fluctuates and the relevance of themes changes.
Still there are many aspects of Blake's 7 I enjoy and many I could talk
about. One of these days I may even get around to writing a proper,
original post on one of them. As for the threads I don't care for, let
others chase them. But even though I'm not constantly chattering, I'm
still here and following things with interest.
Kai
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:59:00 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.helsinki.fi>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Time Squad - A Cally Perspective (long)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0004011957270.14847-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
<Here it is then - the threatened first part of a series that'll never be
completed in a million years.>
As I said I should acknowledge interesting posts more readily, here goes:
A great analysis. Thank you for posting it, and keep at it. We need
threats like this.
Kai
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 00:16:06 +0100
From: "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Take heed of what you post...
Message-ID: <00f401bf9c00$1d82aee0$35ed07c3@ariana>
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> example, an attack of repeat fever on the part of the BBC may give your
> boss the notion to watch this programme to find out why your office wall
> is decorated with posters...
Ah, but that eventuality is precisely why some of us choose to use
pseudonyms. My family and colleagues are way too savvy about the Internet to
miss a Web site that might have my real name on it (as it is, they'd find a
page about a band called Alphaville -- source of 'Ariana' -- but not my
naughty Star Trek stories). Though I try to avoid saying things I might
regret anyway.
Ariana
http://www.alpha.ndirect.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:46:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] manners
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0401134617-bbaRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I'm sitting here with a dear friend whom I met via this list. This is the
second time she's been to stay with me.
In light of the current flame war, I find this extremely ironic. Kathryn is a
committed Christian; I'm a dyed in the wool athiest.
She has personal and religious objections to slash. I write extremely explicit
homoerotic material.
We should obviously hate one another...
It isn't necessary to hate people who happen to hold different opinions. It
isn't necessary to be rude to them. It is perfectly possible to get on very
well with them. Kathryn is far from being my only friend whom I don't share all
my opinions with.
I've good friends who love Tarrant, other friends who dislike slash, friends who
who work for Horizon, as well as equally dear friends who think porn is
wonderful and Avon is God's gift to women and dislike some of Horizon's
policies, (and various combinations of the above)
All it needs is a willingness to agree to disagree and to find the things that
you enjoy in common like filking and watching song vids and enjoying Carnell and
theatre, etc.
I find it very distressing when a nice bloke like Peter, who hasn't even posted
anything during the current debate, gets abusive mail.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:03:15 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Que Sera Sera
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0401160315-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Que Sera Sera
by Judith Proctor and Kathryn Andersen
Blake:
When I first came aboard this ship
I said to Zen, what will I be?
Will I have victory? Will men be free?
Here's what Zen said to me:
(chorus)
Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be,
The future's not mine to see
Que sera, sera
Avon:
When I first came aboard this ship
I said to Zen, what will I be?
Will I find safety? Will I be rich?
Here's what Zen said to me:
(chorus)
Jenna:
When I first came aboard this ship
I said to Zen, what will I be?
Will I be flying, and looping the loop?
Here's what Zen said to me:
(chorus)
Vila:
When I first came aboard this ship
I said to Zen, what will I be?
Will there be drinking? Will there be girls?
Here's what Zen said to me:
(chorus)
Gan:
When I first came aboard this ship
I said to Zen, what will I be?
Will I find friendship, and people I trust?
Here's what Zen said to me:
(chorus)
Cally:
When I first came aboard this ship
I said to Zen, what will I be?
Will I find honour? Will I go home?
Here's what Zen said to me:
Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be,
The future's not mine to see
Que sera, sera
Zen:
When Orac came aboard this ship
I said to Orac, what will I be?
Am I alive? Will I survive?
And Orac said to me:
(spoken) Trust me, you don't want to know.
(we *were* going to do a filk for Rashel, but someone started humming
Que Sera Sera and we ended up doing this instead)
K & J
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:42:02 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] What do we want from Horizon?
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0401164202-c72Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sat 01 Apr, Peter Borg wrote:
> However, recent posts on this list suggest alternative agendas beyond
> expressing opinion. Exactly what do these people expect to happen? Do they
> want Horizon to close? Be handed over to someone else? If so, fine, say so.
> You're entitled to do so.
What I would like to see is the following:
1. Clear, public policy statements.
I want to know what Horizon's official policies are. eg. Redemption is now no
longer linked from the Horizon web site. Is is Horizon official policy not to
mention the convention in any way? (In spite of the fact that Horizon has
advertised and been present at numerous slash-friendly conventions in the past -
Who's 7 for example.) (Yes, I have a vested interest here, but I don't mind a
policy that is applied evenly and without bias. If the same rules are applied
to *all* conventions, then I've no cause for complaint. If the policy is never
publically stated, then I cannot challenge whether it is being evenly applied.)
2. Published annual accounts. (This is *not* meant to imply that I suspect any
dishonesty. It's simply that I'd like to have a better idea of how the club
functions.)
3. Elections.
If the members don't like Horizon's policies, then they should have the option
to vote in new committee members. If they support the policies then they should
be able to express this support.
That's all I want.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 10:46:05 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: The Cally POV
Message-ID: <38E635DD.7F05@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Russ, please keep this up. I'm enjoying it.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 11:07:38 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Neil's girls
Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage
Message-ID: <38E63AEA.209A@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Much as I hate to disappoint the pair of you, Ms Right in this pair of eyes
> must be a fanatical atheist with rabid Marxist inclinations.
Can a person be rabidly inclined? The words seem incongruous.
Leave off the fanatacism, and I'll let you know if I become available.
;)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:30:39 EST
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage
Message-ID: <63.3ad39b6.2617c47f@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Neil wrote:
Much as I hate to disappoint the pair of you, Ms Right in this pair of eyes
must be a fanatical atheist with rabid Marxist inclinations. Wearing greasy
overalls and singing songs about the glories of tractor factories will not
fool me.
Just another case of opposites attracting then...
Trish
a firm believer in the supremacy of the individual over the group, apparently
one of the many reason why I love the snarly one
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:14:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Carmen
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0401221459-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Just been to see Carmen and decided to recast it in B7 terms on the way home.
Carmen has to be Servalan, there's simply no contest. The best candidate for
Jose seemed to be Blake. He's the only one who can cast off all his principles
and the girl who loves him (Jenna) to follow her. None of the others really
have enough principles to betray. Besides, Blake has sufficient capacity for
obsession to get completely fanatic about her. (I don't see Avon in this
scenario - his relationship with Servalan is of a different nature. Mutual sex
appeal - she wouldn't be faking the attraction as we can see the chemistry on
screen)
We were a bit stuck for the toreador - eventually picked Jarvik on the grounds
that he was popular and had a high opinion of himself. It had to be someone on
the Federation side, really. (Kathryn was holding out for Jarriere...)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:18:18 EST
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] REM lyrics
Message-ID: <ac.32c9fc6.2617cfaa@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Alison started the REM kick
>I've been on a bit of a lyrics kick this week. REM lyrics work well in the
>songs, but frankly look rubbish when you write them down. But have you ever
>heard 'losing my religion'? Mr Stipe is perhaps a B7 fan (she wildly
>speculated)
and Nicola jumped in.
How come no one suggested "Shiny Happy People?"
Trish
<g>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:16:19 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] forwarded posts
Message-ID: <00db01bf9bc3$dcff2560$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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From: huh@ccm.net
> I love the show but I
>certainly have nothing extraordinary to say about it. Now, on some of my
other
>lists I have plenty to say. Be glad this isn't one of them. :)
>
>lisabeth
On the contrary please chip in with whatever you have got to say. I'm sure
that the list members who are deeper into fandom than me find my posts to be
nothing out of the extraordinary, but they are polite enough to reply and
share their thoughts with me on whatever was crossing my mind. By doing
this, I have actually learnt some things, and pick up new aspects when I see
the episodes again. So I'd just like to say thanks to everybody who has
replied to my posts over the last six months, and encourage other lurkers to
come out of the shadows more often.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:50:41 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] manners
Message-ID: <00de01bf9bc3$dfb6f260$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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>
>I find it very distressing when a nice bloke like Peter, who hasn't even
posted
>anything during the current debate, gets abusive mail.
>
>Judith
Hear hear.
Andrew (my real name is Gnog)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:56:51 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] An example to us all
Message-ID: <00df01bf9bc3$e06f9400$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
I said....
>> 2) Avon was into something bigger. The bank fraud was part of something.
>> That's why Bartholomew was "running" Avon. ....... But why does Anna use
her real name in this scenario ?
Helen Said
>Also, I think this all makes sense, the theory that he wasn't just a
>fraud.
This is exactly the sort of thin Kai meant.
Last night there was a reply to my post which stated that my idea, although
interesting offered nothing to change their view of the B7 universe (which
did not include my view). Tonight, there is a reply which indicates that my
view fits into somebody else's view of the B7 universe. Completely different
views.
The example to us all (including me) is that they are expressed politely and
with respect, and I am sure all three of us will enjoy discussing it
further.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:45:36 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BB7L=5D_Re:=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking..._?=
Message-ID: <00dd01bf9bc3$dedcbf00$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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From: Kai V Karmanheimo
>I've been on this list
>for about six months now and have made less than twenty posts during that
>time, so I think that makes me an "occasional" poster.
But such high quality posts.
> A cliche I know, but the variety of
>approaches and interpretations is what makes this such an interesting
>forum. I can't say I have enthusiasm for all approaches, but then no one
>has.
Exactly, everybody has their own version of what happens off screen. There
are as many "missing" episodes as there are fans. For example(don't kill me
everybody) I used to scoff (privately) at fan-fic, but I can see why people
write it now, and why people enjoy reading it.
As people might have realised, my schedule allows mainly for short comments
rather than occasional stimulating essays, so that all for now.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:17:58 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's skills and Blake knowing about them
Message-ID: <00e101bf9bc3$e29978e0$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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From: Marian de Haan,
>As I said before, I can't see Avon functioning in the military. The
>discipline would be an insurmountable obstacle. :-) Can we imagine him
>meekly saluting and saying "Yes, sir," or even "Beg humbly permission to
>disagree, sir," to a superior giving him an order he considers stupid?
>
>He does have knowledge about military matters but he can have gained that
>while working for them as a civilian.
There is more to military service than being a squadie / space corp trooper.
There are numerous admin functions, scientific units etc etc.
And, when push comes to shove. Avon takes orders from Blake when Blake
actually issues them. He may protest, but he carries them out. When you have
an asset as skilful as Avon, you don't worry about the odd bit of
insubordination, provided the job gets done.
So, for Avon to function in the military, he just needs a commanding officer
who understands him, and to not be on the front line.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:11:53 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon's skills
Message-ID: <00e001bf9bc3$e11f0de0$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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I said
>> 2) Avon was into something bigger. The bank fraud was part of something.
>> That's why Bartholomew was "running" Avon. To get at the other people
>> involved. Not involved in the bank fraud, but the "grand plan". But why
does Anna use her real name in this scenario ?
Helen replied
>Hmmm... Avon's computer skills. If he checks up on her, he notices
>origins of documents not right. Wrong dates of origin, etc. Let him look
>up her real identification, just close off anything that would lead to
>recognition of what she does.
An interesting thought. Are Avon's computer skills really, and also
acknowledged by the security forces to be, so good as to be able to detect
false computer records. So much so that it is worth risking using Anna's
real name. We know that the Federation is perfectly happy to lie about
peoples backgrounds, alter records etc. So at first glance you might think
that the proffessionals (the secret service side) would be able to do it
seemlessly. But. Your post has reminded me, in the first episode, whilst
they cover most of the bases in framing Blake, one or two traces are left
behind that a junior defence attourney is able to uncover. That would be
trivial for Avon. So perhaps thats it. Not only is the Federation mind
control imperfect, but the forging of computer records as well.
>Also, I think this all makes sense, the theory that he wasn't just a
>fraud. He's sure she died rather than tell everything she knows about
>him. Why? He was arrested and tried for the fraud. No, she knew
>something else about him, he knew she couldn't have told because he
>wasn't charged with (treason or whatever).
>
Good idea. I can't remember if we actually get this from the series, but if
Avon is certain that Anna is dead (and not just because her brother said
so), then that could indicate that it was more than a bank fraud. Because in
Avon's mind, if he were in charge of the Federation, HE would have put
together all of the charges possible in order to ensure a conviction. It may
not occur to Avon that a charge of treason (etc) in itself would damage the
Federation and so restricting the charge to Fraud, and hence deportation, is
the best course of action. That is after all what they did with Blake. They
could have executed him for being present at the meeting, but it was better
to discredit him than risk fuelling any other rebellions.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 01:20:38 GMT
From: "Andrew Michael Spencer" <stickman1968@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L]
Message-ID: <20000402012039.20582.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Andy Hopkinson wrote:
>It has been said by several people on this list that if you don't >like
>what
>Horizon do, you should try doing something else yourself.
>We are.
>Alan and I will be publishing a B7 magazine of our own. It's an
>experiment.
>We
>don't know if it will be a success so we're only trying one issue
> >initially.
>If
>people like it, we'll do another.
>It's not a fan club. It's not intended to replace Horizon. We'll be
> >happy
>to
>sell copies through Horizon, Avon, Judith Proctor or anyone else who >is
>interested.
Sounds good, is there any more information about the magazine?
What is it going to be called?
How much will it cost?
When will it be available?
Will it be in colour?
Is it going to be a mix of fiction/non-fiction or is it going to favour one
over the other?
Good luck to you both with the magazine.
Andrew.
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Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:00:47 +0100
From: "Diva" <diva@tn.prestel.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] REM lyrics
Message-ID: <008001bf9c47$5727cb20$039afea9@diva>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >I've been on a bit of a lyrics kick this week. REM lyrics work well in
the
> >songs, but frankly look rubbish when you write them down. But have you
ever
> >heard 'losing my religion'? Mr Stipe is perhaps a B7 fan (she wildly
> >speculated)
"World Leader Pretend" for Avon thinking about his life?
Diva@tn.prestel.co.uk
"World Leader Pretend"
I sit at my table and wage war on myself
It seems like it's all...it's all for nothing
I know the barricades, and
I know the mortar in the wall breaks
I recognize the weapons, I used them well
This is my mistake. Let me make it good
I raised the wall, and I will be the one to knock it down
I've a rich understanding of my finest defenses
I proclaim that claims are left unstated,
I demand a rematch
I decree a stalemate
I divine my deeper motives
I recognize the weapons
I've practiced them well. I fitted them myself
It's amazing what devices you can sympathize...empathize
This is my mistake. Let me make it good
I raised the walls, and I will be the one to knock it down
Reach out for me and hold me tight. Hold that memory
Let my machine talk to me. Let my machine talk to me
This is my world
And I am world leader pretend
This is my life
And this is my time
I have been given the freedom
To do as I see fit
It's high time I've razed the walls
That I've constructed
It's amazing what devices you can sympathize...empathize
This is my mistake. Let me make it good
I raised the walls, and I will be the one to knock it down
You fill in the mortar. You fill in the harmony
You fill in the mortar. I raised the walls
And I'm the only one
I will be the one to knock it down
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:03:15 -0800
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon's skills
Message-ID: <38E6C683.5CBAA29C@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andrew wrote:
>Whilst planning the bank fraud, clearly encryption and security systems are
>the sort of things that you would read up on. I think that covers it all.
>Avon was a Lieutenant in the military research establishment who teamed up
>with some other people to pull off a military coup, for which they needed
>lots of money.
Your reasoning was brilliant. You have obviously been studying Avon too
long. Get a life :-)
It is interesting to note that Anna Grant actually achieved this
'military coup' objective (well, almost). Perhaps she managed to get
away with the lion's share of the embezzlement, and left Avon holding
the bag. Perhaps that's why, rather than reprogram his brain, they
shipped him off to a very nasty place. To make him tell where he hid the
money. In truth, he can't tell, because he never did figure out who made
away with it. In this scenario, it is ironic justice that Avon should
teleport in and mess up all her military take over plans at Servalan's
new palace.
Pat P
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:40:39 -0800
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Outfits
Message-ID: <38E6C137.2B3F0095@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Trish wrote:
>Keep us posted. Perhaps this is a new area of fan interest. Mattel could
>make little Avon dolls and we could dress him up exactly as we want. Pat
>could keep him in those flamboyant outfits, Dana as she desires, and the rest
>could have a field day with leather, or not <g> Well, maybe those would be
>the life-size Avon dolls that Horizon won't sell either <gg>
Oh, I want one. (You realize Paul Darrow would want a cut, of course.)
If Barbie sized, we could cross dress him in her clothes. Ken's clothes
are too dowdily sophmoric by far. Who would Avon's companion doll be?
Soolin? Blake, for the slash fans? Well dang, Mattell will just have to
manufacture the whole crew. Once I acquire the whole set, I can stop
dressing up my stuffed bunnies (Avon, Tarrant, Vila, Gan) in black
leather. Of course, the best bunny (Servalan) always wears white. ummmm
Would the Avon doll be anatomically correct?
Heading for the drawing board, PatPat
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:03:39 -0800
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Penguins again
Message-ID: <38E6C69B.2E97AF27@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Una wrote re: Trish:
>> No penguins here alas, but I do have 16+ years of Catholic school behind
me.
> Hey! Me too! All good Catholic girls fall for Neil, huh?
It's because we cut our teeth on abuse.
PatPat
(is that why beautiful suffering is so popular here?)
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 22:40:57 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Anna
Message-ID: <20000401.224059.-89627.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Warning, Ariana, spoilers ahead.
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:32:23 +4100 Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes:
if you want someone to tell you your plans, you have
> to
> be intelligent enough to be worth talking to. Stupidity is actually
> pretty difficult to consistently fake. In fact, one Sherlock Holmes
> pastiche I wrote makes use of a clever person going a bit overboard
> playing at being a silly girl. Further, Avon would not be attracted
> to a
> stupid woman; he would ignore her.
So true.
I'd been thinking partly of Avon falling for Peri's ruse and of Anna
using that line about going back to her husband. That latter seemed a
definite attempt at playing the helpless, pitiable type. I think it may
be possible (then again, maybe not) that Anna played on that chivalric
streak which now and then seems to surface in Avon. In that context,
it's at least a serious question whether she'd played _dumb_ and
helpless. I agree the #1 reason she didn't play dumb is because it
wouldn't have worked.
As for helpless, I'm not sure if that's what I think she tried. For one
thing, Avon knew she had a brother she could go to for help. Besides,
when she gives Avon that line, she's in a rush to defuse a dangerous
situation. The ploy she uses might be reflex - something she'd use on
any or most guys about to figure out to much and turn on her (for what
it's worth, when trying to keep Servalan alive earlier, she played on her
supposed history of 'silent / stoic suffering' and on a supposed horror
of bloodshed, both characteristics in keeping with a weak image.
Also, it's implied she acted differently with Chesku at the beginning of
their relationship. The cutting remarks she makes and her obvious
disdain may be the real Anna since this is one time she has no reason to
pretend.
OTOH, I'd say she really did care for Avon and had let him go - either by
not interfering in his final escape or by holding back evidence that
could have gotten him killed. What's slowly driving me nuts is trying to
figure out how much of the real Anna he knew. Did he fall for an
illusion or the real person? And _why_ did he fall for her? What
attracted him and made her the love of his life?
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:11:41 EST
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures
Message-ID: <5a.344cf6d.26183e9d@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
All right, I started the ball rolling, so I thought I'd keep it in play.
(Pat, you're just encouraging me you know)
Announcing the Blakes Seven Action Figures - molded plastic, moveable, fully
functional, realistic, physically accurate models of the Blakes Seven
characters you have come to know and love or loathe, whichever your
preference.
The Roj Blake Doll
Swivel ball head that can be turned up, down, left or right, but has a
tendency to prefer the left
Great big bleeding heart
A mind that can be wiped clean and rewritten as many times as you like.
Accessories include oversized vests and tunic a la Robin Hood, and wellies
The Jenna Stannis doll
Perfect blonde hair that never needs to be set
High heels
Resistance wear for ladies can also be worn as formalwear
The Kerr (I don't really ever use a first name) Avon doll
Battery operated model comes with limitless supply of sarcasm, voice supplied
by Paul Darrow (substitutes not even considered)
Comes with black leather pants and interchangeable jackets
Blowdryer and hairspray to achieve the later series look
Red lobster suit
Intermittant conscience optional
Heart considered an additional purchase and is available in limited quantities
The Slash Avon doll
Studded black leather clothing and gauntlets
Accessories sold separately. Must be 18 or older to purchase
The Vila Restal doll
Set of breaking and entering tools
The worst costumes of the entire group, with the exception of notable Avon
costumes
Bottomless bottle of adrenaline and soma
The Cally doll
Hair can be cut drastically and grows back
Ability to change from forceful figure to moralizing wimp. (You'll need to
buy a new one if you want the forceful figure back)
Easily possessed by alien creatures
Comes with her own personal moon disc
The Olag Gan doll
Come with his own limiter
Interchangeable with Paul Bunyan action figures
The Del Tarrant doll
A set of 64 oversized very white teeth rather than the normal 32
Personality optional
The Dayna Mellanby doll
Bow, arrow, spear,
High heels,
Lute that can be used as mood music
Weapons and ordinance that can be hidden in skin tight clothing
The Soolin doll
Includes 24 piece set of guns
Hair can be set in any style, limited only by your imagination
The Servalan doll (can also be used for voodoo)
Includes the Servalan couture line, as designed by Joan Collins
Knifes for backstabbing
Poison for use with friends
The Travis I doll
Black leather attire and eyepatch
Simulated laser arm and gadget ring
Optional conscience
The Travis II doll
Black leather attire and eyepatch
Simulated laser arm and gadget ring
Complete with his own set of windchimes
Certificate from the William Shatner school of acting (I'll get hate mail for
this one I know)
The Anna Grant doll
Just turn her head to see the multiple faces
To see the original Anna Grant, it is necessary to purchase the optional rose
colored glasses available as part of the Avon accessories.
Can't wait to see what some of you add,
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:48:18 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Andromedan Battle Hym and Commander's Lot
Message-ID: <20000402064818.48149.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
<gurgle> many thanks, I loved both of these…
Given the <cough> unique nature of the Andromedan ships, 'tis indeed a pity
that they didn't have Tarrant and Soolin at the battle - with their
hair-styling implements, Vila's lock-picking tools, bits and pieces from
Cally's first aid kit, Avon's leather polishing kit (and a few studs thrown
in for good measure)…
How could they lose?
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Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:48:57 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] forwarded posts
Message-ID: <20000402064857.92120.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Lisabeth wrote:
<The general standard of the lyst posts, for example, goes far beyond my own
thoughts on Blakes 7. I love the show but I certainly have nothing
extraordinary to say about it.>
Eh? Come on, lisabeth, you *must* have noticed that that never stopped me…
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Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:50:10 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Horizon discussion
Message-ID: <20000402065010.22881.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Julia wrote:
<We *always* ramble on about Snarly. The Lyst could be discussing the fact
that the world is going to be hit be an asteroid next week, and there will
be a thread discussing how he would react to this, >
- by taking the next spaceflight off. And if necessary, by taking it at
gunpoint.
<what clothes he would be wearing at the time,>
Lesseee...oh, to be different, let's make it black.. Very tight leather
trousers, of course, with knee-length boots (hijackers in thigh-boots is a
little hard to swallow, though I don't mind trying) and a black silk shirt
like the one in Aftermath - or maybe white. Or cream. Or...
<and isn't he sexy when he's worried that he's about to die...>
Yes, the way he goes all cold and distant and ruthless, and those gorgeous
smiles when everything's against him, and...what's that? Rambling about
Snarly? *Moi*?
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Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:54:47 EST
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
Message-ID: <11.24a9e85.261848b7@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
One of Andrew's last posts got me thinking about fan fiction.
One of the great joys of happening into B7 fandom was the discovery of fan
fiction. I took it as a sign of validation as I'd been making up stories
involving favorite TV characters since I was about 8. I regarded this habit
as a sign of weakness, a relic from childhood, never to be admitted (unless
in therapy).
What a relief to find many, many adults engaging in this activity. IMHO, fan
fiction fills a void for those of us who wish there were more than 52 B7
episodes or wish there were more episodes with a specific cast. It allows
the authors and readers to insert adventures or stories within the series,
continue the series, or even take it in different directions into alternate
universes. It allows us to ignore those characters we dislike and explore
in greater detail the characters that really interest us.
It got me motivated enough to try my hand at it, and I've written a few, most
of which are shit and will likely be salvaged at future date for the few
passages that are good, but they were fun to write and fulfilled a creative
need.
The stuff I've read was mostly on the web. Some of it is excellent, and some
of it is not. The excellent stuff has challenged me and I think my writing
is getting better with work. I haven't acquired many zines yet, but I have a
wish list pulled together from Judith Proctor's site.
The fan fiction out there runs the gamut, but most seems to focus on the
group dynamics or the dynamics between specific characters, not surprising
since the dynamics were highly combustible on their good days. I very much
enjoy that which stays true to the characters, which doesn't require
rigidity, just consistency. I find it harder to enjoy that which makes Avon
too nice, portrays Blake as less complex than he was, etc. I like the stuff
that allows Cally and Jenna to emerge as strong individuals, and writing that
allows one to wonder how much of Vila was an act.
Taking into consideration something that Neil Faulkner wrote a few weeks ago
(I still want to marry you Neil, even if I have to convert you to capitalism)
I've been attempting to focus on story, rather than just focusing on
character. It struck me how little there was in the admittedly limited
stories I've read of anything traditionally acknowledged as science
fiction/fantasy.
Anyway, now that I'd shared with all of us and emerged from lurkdom, I
thought I'd solicit some of your thoughts on what you love and what you hate
in fan fiction.
I'll start (being the shy little INTP/J that I am)
· I like stories that focus on Avon/Blake conflict
· I don't particularly like slash, but some of it is written so well that it
is quite good
· I like stories where the characters are faced with ethical dilemmas
· I admit to liking the "beautiful suffering" stories, when well done
· I like stories that attempt to fill in or explain things within the series
(e.g. how Blake convinced Avon to stay and fight the Andromedeans)
· I like Avon/Cally stories - I love Loulou Harris's "In the Labyrinth" which
is certainly more than just an Avon/Cally story
· I'd like to see more Travis stories particularly ones that don't end with
"I'll get you someday, Blake!"
· I'd like to see more stories with aliens where the aliens don't look like
humans with body paint, or like amoebas.
· I admit I only read stories that have Avon in them
· I prefer stories set in the first two seasons
What do you like/hate in B7 fan fiction?
Trish
My turn: yes it is my real name
:)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 00:30:50 +0100
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: The Cally POV
Message-ID: <g+08uDAqao54EwWV@wriding.demon.co.uk>
In message <38E635DD.7F05@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker
<avona@jps.net> writes
>Russ, please keep this up. I'm enjoying it.
>
I hear this sort of thing so often I had to check the thread title to see
what it referred to :)
--
Russ Massey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 00:15:13 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's skills
Message-ID: <38E70191.D2AA316C@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
PatPat wrote:
> It is interesting to note that Anna Grant actually achieved this
> 'military coup' objective (well, almost). Perhaps she managed to get
> away with the lion's share of the embezzlement, and left Avon holding
> the bag.
Ack! What a neat twist! I can see Anna doing this, if I could
just square it with her dying declaration of love...
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:20:52 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99FDDECF3@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Trish wrote:
>
> The Travis II doll
> Black leather attire and eyepatch
> Simulated laser arm and gadget ring
> Complete with his own set of windchimes
> Certificate from the William Shatner school of acting (I'll
> get hate mail for this one I know)
Since I happen to like William Shatner, (I like anyone who has the guts to
tell a studio full of fans to get a life), you're getting away with this.
Provided that you also supply me with a slash Vila doll to go with the
Travis II one. There is no need for a slash Travis II doll, since the normal
one already has all the necessities.
Jacqueline
Chief High Inquisitioner of the One True Church of Travis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:13:39 +-100
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
Message-ID: <01BF9C83.D3078F00@host62-6-103-214.btinternet.com>
Trish asked what we all like in fiction. Basically, I think it's safe to
say we all like well-written stories where the characters fit our own
personal idea of the characters. I have read stories that the majority of
fandom raves about as "classics" that I just found dull because these
weren't _my_ characters.
I've found stories that fit into the pattern of exactly what I like best
about fanfic, that fail because they weren't as well-written as I would
like.
OTOH I've found stories that normally I wouldn't go for at all, but which
are so well-written they can persuade you otherwise, temporarily.
With the above provisos:
1)I like het stories, esp Avon/Soolin because that is the relationship I
find most likely (I'm talking recreation here, not romance).
2)I like angst as long as it's believable and, most importantly, does not
turn mushy!
3)I don't like slash, simply beacuse I don't find the relationships
credible. (I read slash in another fandom where I do).
4)I like action sci-fi stuff with lots of plot aswell as my favourite
characters (thanks, Neil!)
5)I will read stories from any season happily, but prefer those that give
everybody something to do rather than conveniently dumping some of the crew
on the first page. However, I do sympathise with this as I certainly
couldn't write a whole crew story, there are some characters I just
wouldn't attempt to write because I don't feel I could do them believably.
6) I have a particular fondness for PGPs, even though I wholeheartedly
believe that everybody died :-)
Louise
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #94
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