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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 98
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] cost of email
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Avon looking for Blake (was: Avon's Skills)
RE: [B7L] cost of email
[B7L] Why send them to Cyngus Alpha?
[B7L] Re: UnAmerican TV
Re: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake (was: Avon's Skills)
Re: [B7L] RE: [B7] Avon's Skills
[B7L] Re: Action Figures
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] RSI
Re: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake (was: Avon's Skills)
Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] My Own True Love
Re: [B7L] MS3K/B7
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Re: [B7L] MS3K/B7
[B7L] Re: Action Figures
Re: [B7L] Action figures
[B7L] Equus
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:35:06 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] cost of email
Message-ID: <005401bf9e5c$22f7aca0$e3ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Una wrote in reply to Jeroen in reply to Kathryn not Judith:
>Five - both arms, elbows to tips of middle fingers :(
Make that six :-(
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:06:33 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <007701bf9e60$92e20c00$e3ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Kai V Karmanheimo wrote:
>Vila doing something stupid
>> to > endanger the crew in every episode >
One of the things I like about B7 is that they are *all* capable of doing
that :-)
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:46:16 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake (was: Avon's Skills)
Message-ID: <008601bf9e66$2ebdb2a0$e3ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Pat Patera:
>>For two seasons, all Avon talked about was how he wanted to be rid of
>>*him*
>>... and have the ship for his own. And then ...
>>He spent the next two seasons looking for Blake.
Dorian:
>Yeah - he doesn't exactly look very *hard* though does he? The whole search
>is rather apathetic. In Terminal he only seems interested in Blake's
>discovery and in Blake he wouldn't have bothered at all were it not for
>Zukan's betrayal.
I find Avon's single-mindedness to find Blake in Terminal totally
unconvincing. Before that he doesn't seem very concerned about him. O yes,
in Aftermath he asks for him first but that's probably because he considers
him the most likely to get into trouble. :-) (Jenna and Cally can look
after themselves and Vila should be able to wriggle himself out of any
trouble he manages to get into.)
In Volcano Avon seems already thoroughly fed up with the search. And I
can't see him missing Blake much. Avon doesn't appear more unhappy in S3
than in the previous two. (Actually, I don't think he's unhappy at all. In
his own way Avon likes a good moan as much as Vila <veg>.)
Then, in Terminal, he's suddenly so frantic about finding Blake that he
abandons all caution, logic and sense for self-preservation.
I know it's a plot device to make Liberator fly through that cloud but I
still find it silly. As they don't seem to be going at maximum speed and
thus can easily compensate for the lost time, and with Orac to get them on
course again, Avon would have gone round it. It would have made Terminal
much more convincing if the writer had found some other reason for going
through that cloud, for example have Orac override Avon's order to go round
it because it wants to study the phenomenon from close up. :-)
I think the real tragedy for Avon was that once he's rid of Blake, he gets
saddled with Tarrant, someone who's got even less regard for his safety than
Blake had. :-)
Just IMHO of course.
Marian (expecting to be flamed for this :-) )
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:40:27 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] cost of email
Message-ID: <38EA371B.3FEE@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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(Kathryn posted about condensing or snipping messages being responded to
out of respect for injuries as well as cost)
And I unsubbed for a while due to tendonitis-- and all of us, quite
frankly, are at risk, sooner or later for repetitve motion injury.
Removing unneccessary text is good for all.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:55:55 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Why send them to Cyngus Alpha?
Message-ID: <38EA3ABA.2E2@jps.net>
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andrew (small a) brought up the interesting question as why (in story
terms) the Federation would be using a prison planet rather than using
capital punishment.
Yes, life is cheap on Earth, but, OTOH, there aren't enough people. The
population of Earth and other planets within the Federation are pretty
low; and yet, they have a culture dedicated to expansion. You can expand
2 ways, conquest (military or political, both of which the government
employs) and through colonization. No one much *wants* to colonize new
worlds; there's no convienences. So you can either send people who are
desperate-- people with joint problems would probably line up to
colonize Mars in a few decades time, as low gravity would do wonders for
the pain. Or you send people who have no choice but to go. The military
is busy doing military things, so they send the criminals.
We might guess some things went on behind the scenes, such as plans sent
that the convicts were supposed to build in order to get more vital
supplies such as water pumps. Eventually, the Federation would step in
to control the planet more directly once it had reached a more
'civilzed' state.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:59:13 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican TV
Message-ID: <38EA3B81.D53@jps.net>
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And then there's Buffy and Angel. Sure, the baddest guys get killed, but
sometimes it's hard to tell bad from good.
And the conventional love story is constantly getting turned upside
down. Season one, the main characters agreed they would probably none of
them ever have a normal or happy love life, and they are living up to
it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:34:00 -0700
From: "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake (was: Avon's Skills)
Message-ID: <001901bf9e75$1db49780$daeeb5cf@flp1>
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Pat Patera wrote:
>For two seasons, all Avon talked about was how he wanted to be rid of *him*
and have the ship for his own. And then ... He spent the next two seasons
looking for Blake.
And Marian had some good comments.
This exchange (from "Volcano") seems to capture the flavor of Avon's lack of
enthusiasm:
VILA: They're going to check out that rumor too, don't forget.
AVON: That Blake was here? It's getting to be a fairly common rumor. We
could spend the rest of our lives chasing down the ones we've picked up so
far.
CALLY: Still, now we're here.
AVON: [in a very tired, flat voice] Oh, yes, now we're here.
AnnB
abasart@dnai.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:31:56 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: [B7] Avon's Skills
Message-ID: <001a01bf9e10$6e0eeb00$494201d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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Otewalt, Andrew
>hello list -
>
>i was watching the first episode last week, and it is very interesting.
Hello Andrew, and welcome.
>has anyone thought about the cost of transporting convicts to prison
planets ?
Yes, actually they mention it in the next episode. Lets not spoil it for
you.
>i would think in on a planet that has to drug it's citizens so they wont
>revolt
I like to think that they *don't* drug them all. But it seems like I am in a
minority of one. Part of the reason is just as you say.... the're pretty
useless even as slaves when drugged.
>i guess it is simply a way to keep the story going.
Well of course. I've had that reply on tricky technical questions a few
times. But its fun to invent a *reason*, even if the writters didn't.
>are there other signs that life is cheap in the federation ?
Some people would say yes, and point to certain episodes (Countdown for
example). Again, I swim against the stream and think that manpower is
actually one of the most scare resources in the Federation. Whole planets
are run with populations counted not in billions, but hundreds of thousands.
Population centres are always located close to the natural teleport site,
you never get, "Vila, which city would the head of the thieves guild live in
?", there is usually the appearance of only one city. So perhaps the
intention is to fill up a duff planet with convicts. Leave it alone for a
few generations, whilst filling a different one, and then go in, take over
and get the people out. (Full of holes that one - just wait for the
replies).
>( i am a different andrew from the other Andrew ( with a capital A ) on the
>list. )
>
I think there are at least three of us. But I'm going by the name of Gnog
now, so please feel free to have your capital back.
>
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:50:15 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Message-ID: <002a01bf9e77$63b0ef20$0f694e0c@dshilling>
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PatPat, splendid suggestions! Can I be your legal department?
As for your partisan political suggestions (and earlier aspersions cast on
editors by certain persons--well, me actually), this is an actual recent
headline from the New York Times: "Democrats Criticize Gore for Position on
Cuban Boy." Note to self: re-watch "The Way Back" before taking on case
involving fabricated accusations.
-(Y)
"My Mom and Dad invaded Cally's brain and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:10:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claudia Mastroianni <cmastr@fas.harvard.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-Id: <200004042110.RAA06579@is08.fas.harvard.edu>
Continuing my habit of responding more often to B5 than B7 stuff on
the lyst...
Pherber@aol.com wrote:
: In a message dated 4/3/00 2:18:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time, sjk3@cornell.edu
: writes:
: > Which, of course, explains why Babylon 5 never sold (nor ran for 5
: > years on American TV, nor sold to the European market).
: Ah, but B5 is *not* morally ambiguous. B5 is in most respects pretty
: mainstream good-guys vs bad-guys stuff. The protagonists are upright members
: of the community, taking action to protect that community, not a group of
: unrepentant escaped convicts engaged (willingly or otherwise) in a guerilla
: war against the established government.
That rather depends whose point of view you believe, of course. In the
series, we do meet people who took principled stands different than our
heroes'. The whole Shadow/Vorlon thing turns white hats/black hats
on its head for a time. And the descent and rise/rise and fall of
Londo Mollari is the most complex moral study I've seen anywhere near
pop culture in years.
In some ways B7 is *less* ambiguous... it was clear that the Federation
was corrupt and dictatorial, even if it wasn't clear what were the
proper tactics to use to fight it.
: And, of course, the ultimate ending
: is success for the heroes, if somewhat bittersweet, instead of everyone going
: down in a hail of gunfire.
Well, heck, if another show had had that ending I would tend to give
it very little credit, as having been copied. But B5 didn't have much
of an ending, in my opinion. It had a lovely final episode, but so much
remains unresolved; some of it will be played out in the novels, but there's
so much left (the telepath war, the rest of Crusade, whatever happened to
Lennier?, and what I wouldn't give to watch The G'Kar and Lyta Show!)--
but then this is one hallmark of a good series, to me... that it's rich
enough to develop all these tendrils and still have some sort of conclusion.
I'd say B5 does that better than B7 did, but then B5 was conceived as a
more coherent work. I haven't investigated, but I suspect that the coherence
of B5 has somewhat discouraged fanfic (though the creator's presence online
and his disapproval of fanfic as copyright violation certainly must have an
effect)--with B5 as with nothing else I can think of besides Lord of the
Rings I get the feeling that it all *is* there, a real history, whether or
not you've gotten to look at it yet. I would be hesitant to write something
that contradicts that secret map, a worry I don't have with B7. The rich
background I perceive to B7 was *created* by the fans.
: And remember - B5 didn't run on one of the mainstream networks, either.
: My point is that mainstream American TV would never support a series like B7,
: that doesn't appeal to their image of the ideal consumer.
Well, it was on a network bidding to become one of the mainstream
networks... PTEN was hoping to be the next FOX or WB, but it never
quite panned out. I'm not sure what that says to your assertion,
though--I don't think PTEN was looking to take risks, honestly.
I think they thought B5 was a solid appealing show that could be
a draw to a mainstream network. Its viewer demographics were
certainly enviable. I would once have agreed that there was no room
for something like B7 on American TV, but between B5, darker shows
like Buffy (no, really!), and anti-hero sitcoms, I'm no longer sure.
Claudia
--
"It pleases me that you care for what I have become, but
never forget who I was, what I am, and what I can do."
-- Delenn, Lines of Communication, Babylon 5
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:01:24 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] RSI
Message-ID: <vAg8JIAEwj64Ew84@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <005401bf9e5c$22f7aca0$e3ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>,
Marian de Haan <maya@multiweb.nl> writes
>
>Make that six :-(
Probably time I made another report to the spin list and/or The Other
List about using voice recognition software, except that the only thing
I have to report is that my computer isn't quite powerful enough to run
Dragon *and* something else at the same time, so I've not been using it
except when I have a choice of that or not using the computer at all.
However, I like it enough that I'm going to upgrade the computer...
Any followup on this should go to the spin list. Reply-to set
accordingly.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:32:28 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake (was: Avon's Skills)
Message-ID: <001c01bf9e10$748b1300$494201d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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In Volcano, he wanted a base, ooh and Blake might be there.
In Terminal, he wanted lots of money, ooh, and Blake might be there.
In Blake, he was p* (sorry) a little bothered about making Slear successful,
wanted to start a revolution and needed a fearless leader for the front
line. (Like Vila, that was not a suitable place for someone with Avon's
valuable skills !). He did try Zukan. Blake was lucky to be the next nearest
hero.
So.
Did Avon REALLY look for Blake ?
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:32:12 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Message-ID: <001b01bf9e10$6f770680$494201d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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From: Nina
>Good point. From the available evidence, however, it doesn't look like the
>higher classes were being drugged heavily, if at all. (At least until
>pylene-50 became available.) The most probable scenario, IMHO, is that the
>level of suppression increased as the grade level went down, i.e., Alphas
got
>the minimum level of suppressants and Deltas the highest. I expect the
Could you remind me of the evidence for mass drugging of Delta's. I seem to
have forgotten it.
> They seem to want to
>maintain at least the trappings of a just and impartial governing system,
and
>that would probably be more important to them than the cost of deporting
the
>"undesirables."
Or just perhaps (you know, maybe, outside possibility, don't take it to
seriously) the governing system really was impartial and really did try to
do things properly, and there were just some corrupt people "high up". Still
working on the details for that one.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 21:41:58 -0400
From: DDJ <frazzled@keystonenet.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000404214158.006c6884@keystonenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Our whole western tradition of
>story-telling is permeated by the influence of Judeo-Christian tradition
>which imposes certain expectations: Good will triumph over Evil, justice
>will be done (eventually), the guilty are punished, the righteous
>rewarded. [...] So it always is more shocking when it doesn't happen
>that way, when your heroes are gunned down, when your sense of justice is
>violated, simply when the moral suddenly seems to be, "And the ruthless,
>immoral bastards shall inherit the Earth, not to mention the rest of the
>universe". We don't expect this in fiction, [...]
>
>So it's not just American tradition that Blake's 7 goes against. It's over
>two thousand years of story-telling tradition
>desperately crying: "NO! DON'T DO IT!" All in vain...
>
Perhaps the key words there are "story-telling tradition." Blake's 7
always seems very British (to me, anyway) because it has the type of ending
found in Shakespeare's tragedies -- a stage full of dead bodies, heroes as
well as villains. Admittedly, the only British tv I've seen are the shows
aired in the U.S., which are presumably the best of the batch, but it seems
as if British tv is still influenced by that tradition (I'm thinking not
only of Blake's 7, but of shows like Sandbaggers) -- the idea that a
handful of people bucking the system are more apt to be trampled than
triumphant.
And maybe it is cultural story-telling, since for years American history
essentially told of a small group of people who did oppose a great,
powerful nation and won. (Mind, I'm not making any assertions about the
accuracy of the historical perception, only the pattern.)
DDJ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:10:01 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] My Own True Love
Message-ID: <008e01bf9e47$e72213a0$d8694e0c@dshilling>
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Another way to analyze Seasons 1-2:
Charismatic, dark-haired person whose predominant conscious motive is greed
(or, more kindly, a need for enough money to be secure), who doesn't like to
kill people but will if necessary, goes through hardship, privation, and
combat, and eventually (but too late) recognizes the true worth of a
light-haired, conventionally virtuous person previously scorned as a
complete drip.
Four words: Gone With The Wind. Even I, however, can't find an Ashley or a
Rhett for this scenario.
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:36:40 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] MS3K/B7
Message-ID: <20000404.203642.-84323.1.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 01:06:49 EDT Pherber@aol.com writes:
>
> <giggle> Might be hard to find something bad enough to torture Vila
> with,
> though.
"The strangest thing just happened." Cally told Dayna, "Avon just asked
me for a list of all my favorite films. He said he was especially
interested in romances, documentaries, and anything I thought was deep
and thoughtful."
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:24:36 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <20000404.203642.-84323.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:39:24 +0100 Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
writes:
>
> I think it is very true that the attitude to 'Aliens' in US films
> and TV
> shows reflects US attitudes to 'foreigners' (also called Aliens in
> American
> English of course). There are basically three attitudes:
> - they are different, hostile and evil
> - they are cute, harmless and inferior
> - they are just like us, with a few superficial differences (mainly
> in the
> forehead area)
> I can see how the latter point of view is a 'good thing' from the
> point of
> view of assimilating and binding together immigrant cultures. I
> think it is
> less good when these three attitudes are the only options for
> developing a
> global foreign policy. I was thinking of the attitudes to the Japans
> expressed on this list about a month ago: 'Families committed
> suicide rather
> than surrender to the invading US army.' 'Women thought they were
> going to
> be raped and they would rather die'
I think the first statement about Japan was mine. It apparently did
happen, and the account I read of one of these group suicides made a very
strong impression on me. I hope that didn't come across as prejudiced.
I didn't mean it to. I've met people from that area and, while I don't
agree with suicide in the slightest, I understand the cultural logic
behind it.
I think most cultures have a mix of good and bad. There are social
problems Americans are willing to tolerate that would never be accepted
in a place like Japan because we see them as necessary evils or
unfortunate side effects of something we _do_ value. Standing up for
individual liberty vs anarchy, for example.
Now, I just need a B7 application for this. Hmm. OK, given Blake's
usual attitude towards other cultures, did he have any of this problem?
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:36:52 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] deportation (was Avon's Skills)
Message-ID: <44.2986199.261c1ce4@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/4/00 2:35:46 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Gnog writes:
> Could you remind me of the evidence for mass drugging of Delta's. I seem to
> have forgotten it.
Strictly speaking, there's no canonical evidence per se. However, they *are*
clearly drugging a least a portion of the population in TWB, but the Justice
Dept. people seem clear headed enough. It just seems logical to me that they
might drug the portion of the population that does physical & menial sorts of
work but be reluctant to give the same dosage levels to grades that do more
intellectual or professional jobs. Sort of a blue-collar / white-collar
division. No doubt, my own cultural background contributes to that logic
though.
> Or just perhaps (you know, maybe, outside possibility, don't take it to
> seriously) the governing system really was impartial and really did try to
> do things properly, and there were just some corrupt people "high up".
Still
> working on the details for that one.
My own view of the Federation *does* lean in that direction, in fact. I
think there probably are a great many people who sincerely believe that the
Federation is a good and just system, and who work diligently to support it.
(And probably an even larger portion who are resigned or simply indifferent
to it.) The average Federation citizen is unlikely to be aware of the *true*
level of corruption and injustice in their government, especially if they're
being dosed with any level of suppressant drugs. I expect most of them are
pretty much like most of us -- unless something unpleasant directly impacts
you or yours, it's tempting and easy to ignore it.
Nina
p.s. Love the new psued, Gnog!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:36:53 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] MS3K/B7
Message-ID: <16.24887c3.261c1ce5@aol.com>
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In a message dated 4/4/00 8:46:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rilliara@juno.com writes:
> "The strangest thing just happened." Cally told Dayna, "Avon just asked
> me for a list of all my favorite films. He said he was especially
> interested in romances, documentaries, and anything I thought was deep
> and thoughtful."
Ohh! That gives *me* a headache just thinking about it! Yes, I think that
would have Vila begging for mercy *real* quick. <snicker>
But would Avon give Vila enough parts to build the 'bots?
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:25:56 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Action Figures
Message-ID: <006601bf9ea6$481d4220$08f0590c@dshilling>
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To: Pat Patera
From: Dana Shilling, Of Counsel, Wolfram & Hart
Subject: Marketing
Have reviewed your memo. Sorry if this duplicates material already in your
file, but if I'm going to be two digests behind, well, there's nothing I can
do about it.
1. Avon doll likely to be the most popular--good, in light of its propensity
to destroy all nearby props/accessories. Enhanced potential for resales.
2. However, suggest putting a warning on the packaging not to leave Avon
doll near computer if you have online bank account.
3. Why not sell Dayna doll with enclosed lyre-thingie, with non-erasable MP3
files, e.g., "I Will Always Love You" and "I Know that My Heart Will Go On."
Repeat sales guaranteed after parents smash doll to bits.
4. Non-erasable MP3 file, e.g., of "Feelings" or Greatest Hits Barry
Manilow, if included in Gen Avon doll beneficial, as likely to lead to
self-destruction (and repeat sales). Inclusion in Slash Avon doll
counterproductive, since probably could get to like that sort of thing.
5. Have been asked to opine about the choking hazard from items that could
be swallowed. Decline to touch that one with a--well, you know.
6. What about product placements for vacant space in Cally's head during
takeover?
7. Do not think "Get in touch with your inner child" is optimal theme for
marketing of Blake doll.
8. Jolly good work getting New York Times magazine to include eight-page
fashion spread two weeks ago with costumes for Servalan doll.
9. Cross-promotion of "This Old Spaceship" book/TV series w/Vila doll?
Very large bill included under separate cover. Suggest you sit down before
reading it, but Wolfram & Hart disclaims all liability for head injuries to
clients.
Dictated but not signed,
Dana
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:52:51 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Action figures
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0404075251-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
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On Tue 04 Apr, Pat Patera wrote:
> Trish wrote:
> >All right, I started the ball rolling, so I thought I'd keep it in play.
> >(Pat, you're just encouraging me you know)
>
> Can't have that! Employee morale must always be left with lots of room
> to improve, otherwise how can the pointy haired manager demonstrate
> motivational skills? So here is a creative, wildly enthuisiatic about
> this new line of action figures. heh heh <evil overlord chortle> I'll
> sic the Marketing Department on this idea! <evil cackle>
pat, you are an evil genuis!
Judith
PS. Legal comments that Hellhound will sue for copyright infringement on the
Avon cropped Mohawk haircut.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:12:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Equus
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0404231239-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Seeing Equus is rather like being hit over the head with a sledgehammer - you
feel dazed for some time afterwards.
If you haven't seen the play and live anywhere within reach of Salisbury, then
GO. It's bloody brilliant and really makes you think. It's on until Saturday.
I'm going again Saturday evening. Anyone else want to come?
Gareth is also incredibly good in it - best thing I've seen him in since The
Crucible (and that had the sledgehammer effect as well).
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:05:26 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <000401bf9eca$c12d0a00$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Some excellent stuff from Kai and Trish (*this* is what I like to see on the
Lyst, if only because there's nowhere else I can discuss it). Trish wrote:
> I particularly liked Kai's comments about 2000 years of Judeo-Christian
> beliefs imposing consistent expectations, easily seen in popular culture,
but
> perhaps also apparent in the number of human beings treated for
psychological
> issues, and the booming rate of depression (at least in the U.S.)
This is really complex. As a Socialist, I would like to pin all the blame
on evil decadent lickspittle capitalism, for creating a culture of ambition
which not everyone
possesses and success which not everyone can achieve (if only because a
culture geared to producing winners is inevitably also going to create
losers). However, that is way too simple. I think we have to look more to
increasing secularisation since the Industrial Revolution, the removal of
simple religious certainties with complex scientific ones. (Which is not to
say that religion itself is simple, only that it can be experienced in a
relatively simple way.) People, by and large, prefer simplicity to
complexity - it makes life easier and lifts the burden of decision-making.
In the UK and presumably elsewhere, the post-WW2 erosion of the visible
structure of the class system might also be a contributory factor. Britain
is not, as certain prime ministers have stupidly tried to claim, a
'classless' society, but the (supposedly) simple three-tier system of the
pre-War system has dissolved into something altogether more obviously
complex, fuelling expectations that in many cases have no realistic chance
of fulfilment. Coupled with the success imperative of capitalist culture, I
don't find it too surprising that an awful lot of people have come to
consider themselves (openly or secretly) as 'failures', and that negative
self-perception is manifest not only as depression but also as violently
anti-social behaviour such as serial murder. The relegation of simple
religious certainties has perhaps inevitably led to their replacement by
simple secular ones, most notably facism and ideologically motivated
terrorism (of the left and the right) as well as less anti-social
single-issue campaigning (mainly on progressive platforms, such as feminism,
animal rights, and more recently relatively narrow environmental issues).
A parallel development of secularisation is a shift in the location of
accountability. With the disappearance of God, God can no longer be held to
account for whatever goes right or wrong in the world. (This is not the
same thing as *blaming* God, of course.) Instead, accountability must be
located elsewhere, and events are not allowed to simply 'just happen'. I
can see this reflected in some of the discussion that goes on here on the
Lyst, with elaborate conspiracy theories concocted to account for various
events in the series (or even the entire series), and the ongoing fannish
obsession with 'conditioning' and complex long-term Machiavellian schemes.
I don't disagree with Kai's perspective on the influence of Judaeo-Christian
thinking - it's new to me, but it makes an awful lot of sense. And in a
Judaeo-Christian culture it might work. But not, or at least not half so
well, in a predominantly secular culture that has (largely) done away with
God but found nothing of substance to replace Him. B7 could therefore be
seen as a reflection of the crisis of confidence afflicting a culture that
has been stripped of its essential certainties. Acknowledgement of that
crisis is probably easier for a British series to articulate than, say, an
American one, since Britain has been more palpably affected by the social
upheavals wrought by two world wars, such as the rapid disintegration of the
Empire and the dissolution of the rigidity of its social structure.
(Downbeat pessismism is even more prevalent in European cinema, coming as it
does from the continent that acted as the battlefield for those wars).
However, this is all extremely complex, with many different factors at work
(at least some of which I'm almost certainly quite unaware of - I've not
even mentioned the impact of growing global awareness through the
development of mass media), and
narrowing everything down to even a handful of causes, let alone just one,
is probably a big mistake.
Bloody interesting, though.
Neil
"I am not a man, I am a free number."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:41:10 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <045b01bf9ed6$d65f8f40$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Neil wrote:
> This is really complex. As a Socialist, I would like to pin all the blame
> on evil decadent lickspittle capitalism, for creating a culture of
ambition
> which not everyone
> possesses and success which not everyone can achieve (if only because a
> culture geared to producing winners is inevitably also going to create
> losers). However, that is way too simple. I think we have to look more
to
> increasing secularisation since the Industrial Revolution, the removal of
> simple religious certainties with complex scientific ones. (Which is not
to
> say that religion itself is simple, only that it can be experienced in a
> relatively simple way.) People, by and large, prefer simplicity to
> complexity - it makes life easier and lifts the burden of decision-making
<innocent voice> Isn't that also the attraction of socialism?
I'll take it the wedding's off <sniff>
Hmm, B7 content to this post...
Kai wrote:
> Our whole western tradition of story-telling is permeated by the influence
of Judeo-Christian tradition which imposes certain expectations: Good will
triumph over Evil, justice will be done (eventually), the guilty are
punished, the righteous rewarded.
I have to say I'm not entirely convinced, altho' there's a lot in that.
There's a very strong strand in Christian thought (inherited, I think, from
Augustine, but any experts out there please correct me), which explains away
and makes acceptable injustice in this world on the grounds that rewards
(and punishments) will be dealt out in the next. This tradition recognizes
that the guilty *aren't* punished and the righteous *aren't* rewarded - but
to enable us to cope with this reality creates the notion that *after* this
life, we'll get our rewards in heaven. An awful lot of Christian hagiography
concerns those who are treated cruelly and unjustly in this life, but
maintain their faith in God and, following a usually brutal martyrdom, are
lifted up into heaven to the eternal bliss of watching those who tortured
them burn in hell. Or something.
Of course, when a society secularizes, and people don't generally believe in
heaven anymore, then you're only left with that initial recognition of
injustice, and no mechanism to even out the score. Which is where ideologies
of all persuasions come in.
So, to me, B7 seems to be a rather typically pessimistic secularized
narrative [1]. The weak get shot, the strong live to kill another day.
No-one goes to heaven, no-one goes to hell. What I think is quite
interesting, however, is that it doesn't go the whole hog and imply that
there is *absolutely* no escape, such as in '1984' or, from fanfic, 'The
Logic of Empire'. Even though 'our heroes' have been shot, even tho' Blake
lies dead and his base is in ruins, there's still the chance that someone
somewhere is looking round at his/her surroundings and thinking, 'This is
wrong, and I have to do something about it...'
Una
[1] Did I really just write that? What a wanker.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 03:58:24 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
Message-ID: <20000405105824.77916.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Okay, I'll be in this one, though anyone who actually reads my posts can
probably guess :-)
<I very much enjoy that which stays true to the characters, which doesn't
require rigidity, just consistency.>
Mind you, that begs the question of what equals consistency…after all, the
difference between Del Tarrant as perceived by the Nostra and by the Numquam
(and Mr Pacey, I gather from the 7fold-whatsit interviews <veg>) is rather -
errr - hard to bridge? Then there's Blake, who's everything from a Utterly
Noble Idiot to a clever but devious bastard who makes Stalin look
saintly...but obviously we character junkies all prefer people we at least
recognise. A writer who's totally consistent and consistently gives me
someone dressed up in an Avon mask (for all she's a very skilled writer) -
someone I don't recognise at all, at all - is someone whose stories I'll
start skipping.
So my taste runs to...
- good character stuff, especially 1st & especially especially 2nd season
(the period between when they got Orac and lost Gan has the richest mixture
of characters IMHO). Conflict is good - conflict is de rigeur for Blake &
Avon - but nothing *but* conflict is both uncanonical and boring;
- Blake and Avon and Vila. The rest are nice <g> but individually optional…
(NB - I will read stories without My Heroes but I seem to get through them
so much *faster*...)
- PGPs with Blake and Avon and Vila <g>, a judicious amount of angst (i e,
lots) and a reasonably not-too-tragic ending;
- speaking of which, ambiguity rather than 'happy' or 'tragic'
endings...happy endings with a sting are rare and lovely, or if there must
be tragedy, a leavening of the ironic or savage humour of the series is rare
but nice (I know, I know, one liners are harder to get right than angst, but
the mix is great if you can get it...);
- the sense of the ridiculous that made B7 so much fun is also fun; as is
Avon being driven up any available wall;
- use of canonical background, especially those bits that aren't flogged to
death (I'm very fond of the clone meself - he's cute - but enough already of
carting him to Gauda Prime just to take the bullets!!!);
- stories with interesting interaction with other rebel groups (especially
if they aren't Avalon, nothing against the woman, but she's not the *only*
rebel in the galaxy!!);
- and I'd love to see a story where everyone *except* Cally got Taken Over
By Aliens;
- a good plot is always nice but if one can overlook the holes on screen,
one can certainly skip them on the page;
- yes, yes, and Beautiful Suffering.
What I hate:
- total dismembering of various characters; Avon being sweet and sensitive
and fragile, Blake being stupid and/or callous and/or <shudder> nice.
Jealous Jennas, Cally as Earth Mother (*Gan* as Earth Mother),
Sir-Del-Galahad-Tarrant...hate them all.
- making *any* of them (especially My flawed, fallible, fascinating Darling)
such Perfection in Human Form I want to hit him/her over the head with
something seriously lethal;
- Avon Saving the Galaxy (or single-handedly bringing down the Federation) -
you think if he *could* he'd've gone to Malodaar, let alone Gauda Prime???
- giant spiders (bad enough in Kairos and Middle-Earth); in fact any and
every monster cliché (you're not on a budget, you can think up something
better!!!)
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #98
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