From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #1 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/1 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 1 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Viewing figures Re: re[B7L] What women like [B7L] Rumours of death Re: [B7L] re: Jarvik vs Tarrant Re: [B7L] Rumours of death Re: [B7L] Re Terminal, and an apology [B7L] Slash Debate re[B7L] re Terminal , and aplogy re[B7L] re Viewing Figures re[B7L] re viewing figures RE[B7L] re The Great Escapes re[B7L] re What women like [B7L] Emergency Ward 10/Avengers [B7L] PGP Fanfic Re: [B7L] Slash debate [B7L] Quote request Re: [B7L] Harvest of kairos [B7L] Volume and issue number Re: [B7L] Emergency Ward 10/Avengers Re: [B7L] Slash debate Re: re[B7L] re viewing figures Re: re[B7L] re Viewing Figures Re: [B7L] Slash debate [B7L] Re: Slash debate Re: re[B7L] re viewing figures Re: [B7L] re: Jarvik vs Tarrant Re: [B7L] JetC11 - Avery Brooks [B7L] Acting on my second resolution Re: [B7L] Slash debate [B7L] caption contest! [B7L] 20th Anniversary today! [B7L] re Emergency Ward 10/Avengers re [B7L] re Jarvik vs Tarrant re [B7L] re Viewing Figures Re[B7L] Quote request [B7L] re{B7L] re Viewing figures re [B7L] Slash debate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:14:07 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Viewing figures Message-ID: <34A9D49F.69F@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk wrote: > Here are the figures in millions of viewers for the programmes > first showings: How odd that 2nd season tallied the lowest figures. B7 fans unilaterally agree it's the best of the 4 series. And how odd that 3rd season tallied high, when it was so scattered, plotwise. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:25:00 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: re[B7L] What women like Message-ID: <34A9D72C.13F3@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jackie wrote: > PS just for the record, my favourite Avon costume is the silky black > shirt he wore in Aftermath (and open to the chest! ho hum) that's "yum yum" (less *is* more) hmmm - have we done a survey yet on the fave Avon outfit? My vote also goes to 1. the black silky shirt 2. the black t-neck with red leather trousers 3. the intimidating 4th season "Ghengis Khan" get up Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:08:26 -0000 From: "Jennifer Beavan" To: Subject: [B7L] Rumours of death Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Help, am I the only one who thinks Avon's actions in Rumours are self-indulgent crap? He wasn't saving Anna; he was just going in for a piece of pointless personal revenge. Remove Shrinker and another takes his place. He was also deliberately endangering the rest of the crew. There's no way to be sure you won't break under torture. Bet you 50 cents Blake wouldn't have let him do it! Jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:24:26 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Jarvik vs Tarrant Message-ID: <199801011924.OAA11535@yfn.ysu.edu> Deborah Rose wrote (after ably defending Tarrant): >"Who STILL can't believe I've come to Tarrant's defense; and no, I am not nor >want to be a member of the Tarrant Nostra:)" Run hard and fast, Deborah. We've inducted fans for far less... ;-) Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:14:20 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Rumours of death Message-ID: <199801012014.PAA14902@yfn.ysu.edu> Jennifer wrote: >Help, am I the only one who thinks Avon's actions in Rumours are >self-indulgent crap? That's an interesting question, Jennifer, one I hadn't considered before. But now I have and here's the result: Self-indulgent? Yes. Crap? No. At least not to my way of thinking. I'm sure Avon realized it was pointless personal revenge. Well, pointless to everyone except himself. It was a matter of personal honor to him (IMHO). That Avon could allow sentiment to take precedence over common sense shows how important it was to him. >He was also deliberately endangering the rest of the crew. There's no way >to be sure you won't break under torture. But apparently the majority of the crew (at least) agreed to back him in the endeavor. They weren't dragged there against their will. Except perhaps Cally who appeared to disapprove. But since she had accepted that a majority vote allowed them to overrule Avon and go to Auron's aid, she couldn't very well object to majority rule here. I appreciate the personal loyalty the crew showed to Avon in this episode. And I expect the crew appreciated that Avon could have such strong feelings for Anna. It was a side of Avon they hadn't seen before. I know Tarrant valued loyalty highly, and he was probably relieved to find that Avon was capable of loyalty (something Avon hadn't much shown him up until "Rumours"). I also like that Avon felt he could share his feelings for Anna and his plan for revenge with his third-season crew. Revealing such a vulnerable side couldn't have been easy for him. Yet he trusted them enough to do that. And they backed him to the point where they wouldn't allow him to go to Servalan's palace alone. While it wasn't Avon's intent, his quest for revenge initiated a degree of crew bonding that had to benefit all of them in the long run. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:19:20 +0100 (MET) From: gwr@easynet.co.uk (Gareth Randall) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Terminal, and an apology Message-Id: <199801012019.VAA12456@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > - how did Dorian know that the Liberator was going to be there? Ummm... err... hmmm! Aren't we due for another round of the perennial "recasting B7" thread? =;-) (Answer : please God, no!) How about this : we know that Dorian was a student of Ensor, and so presumably learned a few of his computer-building tricks. He incorporated these into Slave, which became capable of reading Federation comms traffic, if only in a limited way - this would have been useful regardless of the Liberator. Slave picked up the messages Servalan beamed at the Liberator, although Dorian was as in the dark as Avon as to their source - he only knew that the Liberator was heading to a predetermined point, so he set out there himself. As to what he was planning to do when he got there... pass! Gareth http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~gwr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:52:27 -0500 (EST) From: Sondra Sweigman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Slash Debate Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Re Iain's and Kathryn's postings on slash: How right you are. I would only add that the same goes for writers who feel the necessity to sexualize a male-female bond in order to make it "ultimately meaningful." Can anyone here spell "Mulder & Scully"? Wrong list, I suppose :-) -- Sondra ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:16:13 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re[B7L] re Terminal , and aplogy Message-ID: <34AC862D.572F@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gareth Randall wrote: > > > - how did Dorian know that the Liberator was going to be there? > > Ummm... err... hmmm! Aren't we due for another round of the perennial > "recasting B7" thread? =;-) (Answer : please God, no!) > > How about this : we know that Dorian was a student of Ensor, and so > presumably learned a few of his computer-building tricks. He incorporated > these into Slave, which became capable of reading Federation comms traffic, > if only in a limited way - this would have been useful regardless of the > Liberator. > > Slave picked up the messages Servalan beamed at the Liberator, although > Dorian was as in the dark as Avon as to their source - he only knew that the > Liberator was heading to a predetermined point, so he set out there himself. > > As to what he was planning to do when he got there... pass! He said what he wanted. He wanted the crew of the Liberator to meld with his Gestalt, to produce a much more powerful resevior for his sins. Hence there was an extra glass poured out by Soolin - for Cally. Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:09:50 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re[B7L] re Viewing Figures Message-ID: <34AC84AE.5753@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Patera wrote: > > STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk wrote: > > > Here are the figures in millions of viewers for the programmes > > first showings: > > How odd that 2nd season tallied the lowest figures. > B7 fans unilaterally agree it's the best of the 4 series. > And how odd that 3rd season tallied high, when it was so scattered, > plotwise. > Pat P That`s funny, I was always under the impression that the 3rd series was the most popular with fans. I also remember reading somewhere that on 21st Decenber 1981 OVER 10 million tuned in to watch the episode Blake, the ending of which was not a surprise to anyone as a national newspaper took great delight in spilling the beans to all their readers that day (the amount of phone calls I got that day from "friends" telling me all about it, and thus spoiling it for me when I watched it.) Because I *knew* what was going to happen rather spoiled it for me, but even so it was a terrible shock to see it so graphic. Believe it or not I could not watch that episode again for another 5 years (does that make me a wuss or what?!?!). Then I got into video/music mixes and used the last few minutes of that episode in a lot of mixes. Most of them were really silly but they did exorcise the spectre of that episode. Of the mixes I made, I only kept one: The fed guards surrounding Avon to the tune of Napoleon XIV singing "They`re coming to take me away. Ha! Ha!" That says it all really. Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:09:15 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re[B7L] re viewing figures Message-ID: <34AC848B.4664@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick Bean wrote: > > On Wed 31 Dec 97 (06:07:35 +0100), blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se wrote: > > D13 Blake 9.0 > > Ironic that the most watched episode in the fourth season was the last one. As I mentined in another post, the demise of everyone was plastered all over a national newspaper. So a lot more people watched to see the gruesome shootout. I know for a fact that at least 5 households of non-B7 fans watched it, because they all told me they watched it simply so that could tease me about it later. > It could have a lot to do with what else was one other channels. As ( I would > guess) most homes only had one TV and not many VCRs. Were any of them > repeated? I think that I remember seeing deliverance one weekday afternoon. > 8 episodes of series three were repeated prior to the first showing of series 4. Series 4 was repeated again after much lobbying by the fans (who wanted the all 4 series repeated, not just the last one) Most people I knew had video recorders by 1981. I don`t know where you could have seen Deliverence on a week day afternoon. Unless it was at a friend`s house who, like me, obtained pirate copies - which was the only way to get them before the BBC relented and released the official ones. One such episode has German subtitles on it (Bounty, I think). But then again I seem to remember reading that Deliverence and Orac were shown together as a "feature length" episode, but I didn`t think that it was in the UK, maybe Judith can help here? Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:09:27 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE[B7L] re The Great Escapes Message-ID: <34AC8497.1CDA@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ovina Maria Feldman wrote: > > > On Mon 29 Dec, Sven Klinge wrote: > > > Judith wrote: > > > > > > > by firing at them, he is > > > >essentially forcing them to kill him. > Judith Proctor wrote:> > > > If he got hit by that many stun charges, the overload would probably kill > > him anyway. There's no such animal as a safe stun weapon. > > I'm relatively new to the fanzine world, but one theory I haven't seen, > in my admittedly limited experience, is that it was neither Avon nor the > troops surrounding him that fired. We only see Avon surrounded by troops > -- who for all the good reasons mentioned have probably been ordered to > capture as many rebels alive as possible -- and then we hear 2 or 3 > shots fired. They may have been fired by someone else entering the > scene. Possibilities include Servalan of course, but might just as well > be rebel re-enforcements, another bounty hunter coming in, some other > Federation officer (I like the idea of someone else out there with > Servalan's ambition and ability who either was or could have been a > serious rival)... I have read a couple of fanfic stories that started with rebel re-inforcements being the ones that started the firing. One story continued with Blake recovering, after timely intervention with medical assistance. The other one had Blake dead, and the rebels not very pleased with his killer. However, after much searching I found the relevent interview with Mary Ridge, where she states: "The first shot was from Avon`s gun. The next three shots were from Federation guns - then the next two were Avon`s again" That quote was from an interview Mary gave in the Blakes7 Marvel monthly. So the remaining unanswered questions are: 1) Did Avon manage to kill all those guards with just three shots? 2) Were those last two shots of Avon`s a dying relex action? 3. Or a relex action of a man collapsing from stun shots?. After all there were only three, and Gans constitution needed 3 drugged darts in Horizon. It was noted in Ultraword that Avon had a particularly strong mind/body in defying the "sleep process". Another reason I have for the Stun Gun theory, is that, yes the Feds knew that Blake was to be found there, but that they did not know which guards would be the ones to reach them, so issued all of them with the stunners. The feds wanted Blake alive, for the same reason that they did not want him dead in The Way Back. A dead martyr is a much more powerful rallying point for potential rebels. They must have been over the moon to find that Blake had apparently been murdered by his one time Second-in-Command. Someone they can safely try in court and have publically executed. Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:09:43 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re[B7L] re What women like Message-ID: <34AC84A7.6629@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Patera wrote: > > Jackie wrote: > > > PS just for the record, my favourite Avon costume is the silky black > > shirt he wore in Aftermath (and open to the chest! ho hum) > that's "yum yum" I did not want to infringe on your sayings too much, but yes the outfit is definately a yum yum. Paul wore an almost identical outfit when he toured in the "scottish play" a few years back. It is just as yummy in "the flesh" (so to speak) as it is on the TV. > (less *is* more) > > hmmm - have we done a survey yet on the fave Avon outfit? > > My vote also goes to > 1. the black silky shirt > 2. the black t-neck with red leather trousers > 3. the intimidating 4th season "Ghengis Khan" get up > > Pat P I also quite like the outfit he wore in Killer (the one Tarrant borrowed for Traitor). I often wondered how well that outfit actually fitted Tarrant. Given that he is so much taller than Avon, does that mean his trousers were a little on the short side? (the sleeves on the top seemed alright, but the difference in height is definately noticable). bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:09:05 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Emergency Ward 10/Avengers Message-ID: <34AC8481.2DA1@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jackie wrote: > > Heather Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Oooooh!!!! What is Emergency Room 10? It was a > > sort > > > > of predecessor to The Avengers. > > > > > > "THE AVENGERS"!?!?!?!?! Try the predecessor of Britain's Casualty, or > > > > Um, sorry, I *knew* that didn't sound right. Something like that was a > > predecessor to The Avengers though. Something had the original Avengers > > cast (Ian Hendry and Steed), from which came that most wonderful and > > British show. I looked up the article about the Avengers. The FIRST series of the Avengers did star Ian Hendry and Steed. The second series was held up by a strike (it didn`t say who was striking) and Ian Hendry moved on. His place was taken by Mrs Peel. I`m still not sure whether EW10 had Ian Hendry in, or whether it was before or after The Avengers. Have to wait until an interview with Ian Hendry comes up, or someone asks Paul at Deliverence. Dare Ya! Apolgies to everyone for being OFF TOPIC. Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 1998 15:03:50 -0800 From: "Buck, Courtney" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] PGP Fanfic Message-ID: >> I wrote: >> However, I'm a firm believer in the "Avon and Blake set it up together" >> scenerio. It seems strange to me that there is no PGP fanfic on this >> theory. >Kathryn wrote: >HA! No fanfic on this theory? You haven't been reading enough fanfic! This is probably true. I only discovered B7 less than a year ago, and while I have been buying zines like crazy and now own "a ton" of them. I haven't had the time to read them as I'd like to (nevertheless, it's a delight just to own them). Could you suggest some zines or stories I could look for that focus on the "Avon and Blake set it up" theory?? It would be very much appreciated. Thank you Courtney (an AVON fan) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:08:54 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <883696563.108198.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain's contribution was the best expressed and most convincing reason for being uncomfortable with slash which I have seen on a mailing list. I know Iain isn't unique in those attitudes I just felt that he conveyed them very well. I don't want to be flippant, but I don't want to be too boring so I'll try to be brief, and trust that my meaning is clear. - I'm sure slash fans universally believe in platonic relationships as well as sexualised ones. IMHO Iain is mistaken to think that women don't have intense non-sexual relationships with each other. But then it's an understandable mistake for a man to make - no first hand experience of course. - I think there is a lot to be said for art forms which preserve tension, of whatever kind, without collapsing it. Any erotic fanfic could be felt to collapse the tension, perhaps that is why it can be a bit disappointing (to me anyway). The writers I like best make an attempt to address this issue. I do think it is a problem with fanfic in general. The show leaves you unsatisfied, so you write to address that dissatisfaction. then you run the risk of losing the fragile quality which attracted you in the first place. - There are a lot of restrictions on how women can express their emotional and sexual needs. In a lot of slash (this is just my opinion) women project those needs onto men because men are 'allowed' to have the needs, and to act on them. In a way the men in erotic fiction are surrogate women with permission to act. So in a sense these *aren't* real men. Heck, this is a bit of a mess, but to put it right would make it too long, so please read with tolerance. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:54:11 +0100 GMT From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Quote request Message-Id: <1987152MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> Hi, Can anyone help me with this? There is a famous quote from Avon, I think, to either Vila or Blake that goes something like "What part of the word No didn't you understand". Can someone tell me who said it to whom, what the actual words were and what episode it was in? cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ Make your own tribble! Buy a hamster and cut off its legs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 23:52:13 GMT From: pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick Bean) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Harvest of kairos Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain On Thu 1 Jan 98 (17:51:05 +0100), blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se wrote: > A couple of more encounters like this and Volcano, and the Federation would > have been using garbage scows for a military fleet. Yes, What with the war (star one/aftermath), 'volcano' and 'Harvest' it is little wonder that they needed the blaster crystals replaced one epsiode later. Was 'The keeper' the first time the liberator destoryed federation ship? I suppose it was always easier to run rather than to fight. -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick David Bean) | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ Web http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/pdbean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 19:38:32 GMT From: pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick Bean) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Volume and issue number Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain On Thu 1 Jan 98 (17:51:05 +0100), blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se wrote: > blakes7-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 290 Should this not be Volume 98 : Issue 1, as it was sent to me at 15:51 GMT today or dose it have to be changed manually? -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick David Bean) | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ Web http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/pdbean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 18:59:05 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Emergency Ward 10/Avengers Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980101185716.006f67cc@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jackie wrote: >I looked up the article about the Avengers. The FIRST series of the >Avengers did star Ian Hendry and Steed. The second series was held up >by a strike (it didn`t say who was striking) and Ian Hendry moved on. >His place was taken by Mrs Peel. Well, no, not immediately it wasn't. First series (1961): starred Ian Henry as Dr David Keel, a role described as similar to the one Hendry had previously played in the series _Police Surgeon_, & Patrick Macnee as John Steed. Second series (1962): filming delayed by Equity (actors') strike, Hendry dropped out. Replaced by Honor Blackman as Mrs Catherine Gale, Steed's principal partner, along with Julie Stevens as Venus Smith and Jon Rollason as Dr Martin King, who appeared in only a few episodes each. Third series (1963-4): Steed & Cathy Gale. (Venus Smith & Dr King were dropped.) Fourth series (1965-6): Introduced Emma Peel (Diana Rigg) as Steed's new cohort, after Blackman decided not to continue as Cathy Gale. Fifth series (1967-8): Steed & Emma Peel. Sixth series (1969): Brought in Linda Thorson as Tara King, after Diana Rigg's departure. -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 18:58:43 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <34AC57E3.23FA@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page wrote: > > Heck, this is a bit of a mess, but to put it right would make it too long, > so please read with tolerance. > You just said it better than I'd ever heard before. I think you're spot on. > - I think there is a lot to be said for art forms which preserve tension, > of whatever kind, without collapsing it. While for men, consumation is the goal, for women that can be the let down. One slash story I still remember vividly after many years starred Avon and Vila (*not* a fave combo) casing a rich man's mansion during a party. They went from room to room to room, drooling over the riches and looking for the very best thing to take - all the while flirting and teasing outrageously. I don't recall if they actually manged to steal anything, for they were interrupted (*not* coitus interruptus!) in the far back room and had to make a hasty escape. But the writer's mastery of building tension remains unmatched in anything else I've ever read. And if they'd had the chance to consumate, it would have deflated the whole aching wad. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 19:01:04 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: re[B7L] re viewing figures Message-ID: <34AC5870.34A2@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jackie wrote: > As I mentined in another post, the demise of everyone was plastered all > over a national newspaper > fans watched it, because they all told me they watched it simply so that > could tease me about it later. With friends like that, who needs enemies? ;) Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 19:09:30 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: re[B7L] re Viewing Figures Message-ID: <34AC5A6A.206E@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jackie wrote: > That`s funny, I was always under the impression that the 3rd series was > the most popular with fans. My opinion comes from those in the So. California BBC fan club, so it is admittedly a small sample. > the episode Blake, the ending of which was not > a surprise to anyone as a national newspaper took great delight in > spilling the beans to all their readers that day wow! there's one good thing we can say about U.S. media - they do not speak spoilers. Probably because they're in bed with all the producers and don't want to dampen viewership figures and thus offend the advertisers. > I could not watch that episode again for another 5 years (does that make > me a wuss or what?!?!). I can't watch the end of it. I adore the ep - all that creeping through dank misty forest - the overhead patrols, the desperation of the crew. Watching bounty hunter Blake (absolutely his shining star moment in the whole series) play his new personna. But I always stop and rewind before the bitter end. It leaves me too depressed. Yes, that last moment, with Blake going to his knees, and the red lights and all, is used in a great many songvids. Too many, in fact. I can watch it in a vid, but it gets redundant. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 19:21:41 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <34AC5D45.69F0@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn Andersen wrote: > > Iain put his finger on it exactly. Deep platonic relationships are > intense in another dimension, and to drag sex into it is not only > completely unnecessary, but it takes a chainsaw to what the actual > relationship *is*. I agree. The actual relationship is intensely intellectual, which I find sexy in itself (wadda expect? my own personality tests out as analytic, "the scientist") It's also combative, which pleases those two competitive kind of guys. However, I can still enjoy the radically different takes different writers have on the situation. That in itself is a study in the nearly limitless bounds of human creativity and ingenuity. And, if one has a firm grip on, for instance, Jenna's true canon character, why not let her rip as a homocidal maniac every now and then? If you've got the PMS, baby, flaunt it! :) Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:34:33 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Re: Slash debate Message-ID: <199801012234_MC2-2DBA-3311@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To Iain and Kathryn, especially I assure you I place the highest value on strong, intense, platonic friendships, whether same-sex or otherwise. I depend on them to keep myself living (in a way that I don't depend on sexual ones) so I wouldn't see them devalued for the world. It's just that, in this particular case, it's impossible for me to say that's what I see in Blake and Avon. (Cally and Jenna, maybe...) [oh, brilliant, that's where the other red biro got to... sorry...] But there isn't a correct answer. Your belief about the nature of the ties between them is just as true as mine, because the truth about this particular story exists only in our separate minds. Even, though I boggle to think of it, in the Tarrant Nostra's. And, though I am sorry that it distresses you, it would be untrue to my truth to deny the sexual frisson I first sensed between Blake and Avon nearly 20 years ago. Sue Clerc is exactly right (for me) - I'm perfectly happy (and maybe happier) if it isn't explicit. If they don't notice. That's my truth. For others, it's right out in the open. For you, it's something else entirely. That's good. I don't like absolutes. I do hope Iain is coming down to Stoke. It would be a pity to miss someone who writes such interesting posts on so many topics. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:52:15 +1100 (EST) From: Gordon Burgess & Carol Mason To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: re[B7L] re viewing figures Message-Id: <199801020752.SAA02416@magna.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>I don`t know where you could have seen Deliverence on a week day >>afternoon. Unless it was at a friend`s house who, like me, obtained >>pirate copies - which was the only way to get them before the BBC >>relented and released the official ones. One such episode has German >>subtitles on it (Bounty, I think). >>But then again I seem to remember reading that Deliverence and Orac were >>shown together as a "feature length" episode, but I didn`t think that it >>was in the UK, maybe Judith can help here? >>Bye for now >>Jackie >> >> I don't know about the UK but here in Australia there was four compliation videos released, before all the episodes were available. They were : "In the Begining" , "Duel" , "Orac" , "Aftermath" . I don't remember them ever being shown on the ABC though. Carol, Take care, Peace be with you, Carol "Hondo" Mason "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity" "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film" "Friends may come and go, but enemies tend to accumlate" "If you can't convince them, confuse them" "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk" ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jan 1998 12:19:04 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Jarvik vs Tarrant Message-ID: Pat Patera writes: > I'd vote for: Carnell! -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se "I'd rather hang on to madness than normality" -- KaTe Bush ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jan 1998 12:28:57 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: "Dangermouse" Subject: Re: [B7L] JetC11 - Avery Brooks Message-ID: "Dangermouse" writes: > *Everyone* has signed for seasn 7. Ira and Lolita have been talking about > it running a year and a half - 36 episodes, but I can't see how they'd > manage that, so I doubt they will.... Season 7? Blake's 7 only had four seasons! The originator of this thread decided to send it to a shitload of addresses, which seems to include at least three different mailing lists. Please do not compund the mistake when you post, but remove all addresses except the one(s) you actually want to send to. /admin of the B7 list -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se "I'd rather hang on to madness than normality" -- KaTe Bush ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:58:47 -0500 From: DJ Wight To: B7Lysator Subject: [B7L] Acting on my second resolution Message-ID: <199801020959_MC2-2DCD-BB07@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My first one being to read all e-mail the day I get it, as opposed to several months later.... Second resolution was to get on with saying hello on this list a bit more formally. *With* immediate apologies to everyone here who's also on the Space City list, because you may recognize much of this 'introduction' as a cutting-together of two of my early posts there, some months back--sorry! dump to avoid duplication--and to anyone who may feel as I tend to do, that in this context there's no way for the recycling not to be tacky. My problem is that when I went back to look, those earlier posts still said near enough exactly what I wanted to say. *** "Reality is a dangerous concept. Each one of us interprets it in a slightly different way. Every sense impression is filtered by the brain. Sometimes just a little, sometimes completely. To fit our individual model of what the world is about." Dr. Havant - Blake's physician in "The Way Back" It's rare for me to *watch* television. I tend more to ignore it, while doing other things. Nothing, as a rule, that much requires attention--any number of needful but mindless household tasks will do--which is important now, only as a basis for saying that the first time I heard the words "Reality is a dangerous concept," Dr. Havant caught me on my feet. Beyond me now, to say what I was doing! but I remember that I stopped, and turned, and listened, and when he was done, stood watching for a time, and thinking, *that* had the sound of a warning. Wondering a little, as the story moved on, and so did I. Four and a half years later, the moment still holds me. I still wonder a little, how it was meant. Not that it matters a lot. For me, what's intended in a work may be of interest, but can never be as important as what's achieved, and for me, what's achieved in this passage is such a strong, elegantly stated reminder of how subjective our perceptions are, that even if it *was* intended as no more than a passing thought-- a passing challenge, to Blake's perception of his experience-- it still has the sound of a warning. A warning of an hypothesis about to be brilliantly demonstrated. :) In the moment, I could still equally well say by Terry Nation or myself. I did have the advantage of knowing that my first impression of Blake and company was an illusion, because it was an illusion of familiarity. To digress for a moment, to what and when that impression was: It was late one Saturday night in July '93 that I first zapped across the B7 opening titles and thought "What the hell." I'd caught glimpses of the programme in mid-stream twice in earlier weeks. With hindsight, fragments of "Mission to Destiny" and "Project Avalon". Enough for me to smile at the costumes and think: "definitely '70s". Enough to have the general idea that Blake and company were freedom fighters trying to knock off a galactic Federation. Not enough to put names to the faces, or even be clear about who was on which side, or how many sides there were. Enough to wonder if this had been the BBC's answer to ST:TOS. Not enough to stay up for it. However, that night--courtesy of a caffeine overload I was going to be awake willing or not, and there wasn't anything else on the air that looked even remotely interesting. The episode on air that night was "Breakdown". Not for most fans a top-10 favourite, something of a quiet evening at home with the family, but as a 'medivac' story, the perfect introduction for a northerner--beside the point, for the moment. My first impression was that as a team of freedom fighters, this group was definitely on the wild side. If *team* was the word. Blake appeared rather more to be managing a madhouse under a full moon. Gan an apparent 'gentle giant' type running amok due to problems with a limiter implant meant to keep him from being--what? A killer? (I still love the way he yelps "--Sorry!" as he flips Jenna across the flight deck.) The ship's computer going on *strike* when ordered to take them through an unspecified-hazard zone. Avon clearly ambivalent about being there at all, telling Blake that if they survived he would be finished, it requiring a degree of stupidity he no longer felt capable of, to stay, and being told by Blake that he was just being modest. *That* setting the tone for that relationship! Jenna an attractive lady with evident nerve and interesting edges, Vila a sincerely professional coward and comedian, and Cally an apparently sweet, kind, and insanely trusting young lady (in which case, how had she come to be looking after *this* bunch?) surprisingly dense about the possibility of being decked by their not-so-gentle giant once she let him out of restraints. I was charmed with the fact that no one appeared to be cast into any one role aboard ship. Everyone seemed to be in messing with the medical equipment when they were figuring out what was wrong with Gan, and it looked as though any of them were liable to turn up at any station on the flight deck. I was delighted with the intelligence most of them showed, and their apparent near-zero tolerance for woolly-mindedness, prevarication, or bullshit. Absolute zero, in Avon's case. It all looked to be quite a challenge for their likeable leader, whom I found something of a puzzlement. He did show the strength it would take to keep command of such a volatile crew, but on the whole he seemed to be too open and good-humoured a soul, to stand a chance of managing the trick for long. Very nearly, well--cuddly! I was tremendously impressed, once I quit laughing. I also felt rather as though I'd come home. Home to a small, isolated community in the Arctic, about mid-winter. To a disparate group of tough, clever, blazingly forthright people, on the whole *not* clearly together by choice, and in at least one case frankly ambivalent about being there...all bound, none the less, by the fact of being together. By the demands of a situation in which they were all in some danger, and on that occasion, the needs of one insane and dying. In calling it a 'medivac' story, I originally said it couldn't have resonated more strongly for a northerner. I considered saying 'for a settlement person' and didn't, because the term doesn't mean much, unless you know what a settlement is, or what living in one means, but that's what I was thinking. Part of being a settlement person is waiting in the dark at mid-winter, for a plane to come, and watching the whole community wait, and pray it gets there before someone dies. If you *have* the plane, or the snowmobile, or the dog team, if that's what it takes, it means taking whatever chances you have to, to see that person safe. Even if it's someone half the settlement hates and the other half fears, because simply being together, in that isolation--you do belong to each other, whether you want to or not. Run "Breakdown" some time and at the end imagine a voice saying, "Like *THAT*." Seventeen years out of the settlements, the sensation was unexpected enough to guarantee I'd be back the next week. That next week, PBS Detroit skipped from "Breakdown" to "Orac", and there it was again. There were more layers to what was going on, but again, it hit my filters essentially as a 'medivac' story, and again, resonated. In the characters' strength; the sheer stubbornness with which they carried on. In the ways they drew together around what was happening, despite it being fairly clear they weren't that close as individuals. Above all in the speed, decisiveness, sharp wits and hard-edged practicality with which they faced their uncertainties. In the settlements, we used to say that Rule One was "Ignore or deny reality, and it will kill you." These people seemed to understand that. Even *knowing* it had to be an illusion, it was electrifying. Then came "Redemption", and the realization that the series had been run as a *continuing* story. :) And the first few minutes of that *really* made me a fan! --DJ angnak@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:08:58 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Iain Coleman wrote: > I told myself I wouldn't get involved. But then, 8-) Don't you hate it when that happens? I loved your post, I respect your feelings on this issue, and I admire your courage in posting them. I even agreed with some of what you said. I understand if you don't want to go further with the topic (there are entire ranges of subjects I avoid in order to keep my keyboard intact). I've snipped a lot because other people have already addressed the points I would've, and mostly done it better. 8-) > Bloodless > revolutions and other silly plots not only aren't in the same league of > wrongness, they're in a completely different sport. Blake being naive > violates his character, the good guys winning without cost violates the > tone of the series, but Blake and Avon shagging violates everything I know > about relationships between two men. You have strong feelings on this issue and are more invested in it than I am. That's cool. But because it's not vital to me, I do group slash in with all the other twists and interpretations fan fic encompasses. To me, there is no difference in nature between slash and any other plot or character variation in fan fic. The point I was trying to make in my initial post is this: rejecting slash on the principal that it violates the integrity of the characters is nonsensical because gen fan fic does the same. And I'm going to add the usual cult studs disclaimer: mass media images are inherently capable of carrying multiple, conflicting interpretations. (Not that you even mentioned it, it's just reflex. 8-) I also want to tack on here before I forget that there are many, many variations within slash and we're discussing just one kind. > I was reluctant to enter this discussion, because it's the sort of subject > where people can seriously offend each other without meaning to. If I've > done so, I'm sincerely sorry. Hell no, and ditto. > I would never wish to stop > anyone reading and writing what they damn well choose. I just feel that a > kind of relationship I value greatly is being devalued or ignored. I don't think it's being devalued or ignored. Or rather, if it is, then it's the authors of gen stories who bear the blame: slash by definition is about same-sex relationships that have at least some erotic potential, whether it's explicit in the story or not. Platonic (and maybe that's not the best word, given the origins 8-) buddy stories are outside its purview. FWIW, the very best gen stories that examine B/A are by slash writers, IMO. Within slash, at least the kind we're talking about, I think the relationship is prized and cherished as a joining of soulmates where the only thing missing is a physical expression of completeness. In a story like that, sex is practically a metaphor for the couple's wholeness. Of course, sometimes the sex is there just to make you stick to the couch, I think. 8-) Slash is a many splendored thing. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:21:51 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] caption contest! Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The January picture for captioning is up! Vila and Dayna share a special moment in "Sarcophagus." Quip ealry, quip often. December's captions are also up. (http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/CapCon.html) Several new links have been added to the links page. (http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Resources.html) Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:26:35 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] 20th Anniversary today! Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Twenty years ago today was the first airing of "The Way Back," according to the handy Programme Guide. Suggestions for celebratory activites include ingesting tranquilizing drugs (my favorite), getting a cat scan, running down abandoned underground tunnels, and wearing really ugly and unbecoming clothes (got it covered). Avoiding court, transport cells, and limping men is, as always, advised. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:22:16 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re Emergency Ward 10/Avengers Message-ID: <34AD84B8.203A@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Williams wrote: > > Jackie wrote: > > >I looked up the article about the Avengers. The FIRST series of the > >Avengers did star Ian Hendry and Steed. The second series was held up > >by a strike (it didn`t say who was striking) and Ian Hendry moved on. > >His place was taken by Mrs Peel. > > Well, no, not immediately it wasn't. > > First series (1961): starred Ian Henry as Dr David Keel, a role described > as similar to the one Hendry had previously played in the series _Police > Surgeon_, & Patrick Macnee as John Steed. > > Second series (1962): filming delayed by Equity (actors') strike, Hendry > dropped out. Replaced by Honor Blackman as Mrs Catherine Gale, Steed's > principal partner, along with Julie Stevens as Venus Smith and Jon Rollason > as Dr Martin King, who appeared in only a few episodes each. > > Third series (1963-4): Steed & Cathy Gale. (Venus Smith & Dr King were > dropped.) > > Fourth series (1965-6): Introduced Emma Peel (Diana Rigg) as Steed's new > cohort, after Blackman decided not to continue as Cathy Gale. > > Fifth series (1967-8): Steed & Emma Peel. > > Sixth series (1969): Brought in Linda Thorson as Tara King, after Diana > Rigg's departure. > OOOps Sorry. Comes of paraphrasing rather than direct quoting. Mrs Peels name appears in an earlier paragraph. Patrick does say "Honor took over some scripts that were written for Hendry." However, perhaps Police Surgeon is the series that being confused with Emergency Ward 10 originally!! Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:21:32 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re [B7L] re Jarvik vs Tarrant Message-ID: <34AD848C.DAB@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calle Dybedahl wrote: > > Pat Patera writes: > > > I'd vote for: > > Carnell! > -- > Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se > "I'd rather hang on to madness than normality" -- KaTe Bush A very interesting choice. I like it. In that case, I`d like to see Carnell AND Jarvik on board at the same time. These two along with Tarrant and Avon should make some interesting crew reactions. Carnel knows how to push some very interesting buttons, and then sit back and watch the resulting fireworks. I can see some spectacular confrontations between various crew members. Add a maniac like Dorian to the mix...... oh YES!! pleeeese, someone write the story! Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:22:06 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re [B7L] re Viewing Figures Message-ID: <34AD84AE.70E2@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Patera wrote: > > Jackie wrote: > > > That`s funny, I was always under the impression that the 3rd series was the most popular with fans. > > My opinion comes from those in the So. California BBC fan club, so it is admittedly a small sample. > > > the episode Blake, the ending of which was not > > a surprise to anyone as a national newspaper took great delight in > > spilling the beans to all their readers that day > > wow! there's one good thing we can say about U.S. media - they do not > speak spoilers. Probably because they're in bed with all the producers > and don't want to dampen viewership figures and thus offend the > advertisers. > It is a sad failing that our popular national dailies take great delight in printing spoilers for TV programmes. I can only assume they think that it increases their circulation by printing such "exclusives". Personally I don`t buy newpapers, I catch the news on Teletext, or Sky News, but even so, you get people in the works canteen talking about the "spoilers" they`ve read in the papers. The amount of times I`ve watched a thriller series and tried to work out who the killer was , only to find on the morning of the final episode the papers have revealed the killer, and you accidently hear people on the next table discussing it!!!!grrrrrrrrr. Byr for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:21:45 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re[B7L] Quote request Message-ID: <34AD8499.6D05@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk wrote: > > Hi, Can anyone help me with this? There is a famous quote > from Avon, I think, to either Vila or Blake that goes something > like "What part of the word No didn't you understand". Can > someone tell me who said it to whom, what the actual words > were and what episode it was in? > cheers > Steve Rogerson > Really? It was said in Blakes 7? I`ve been using that on my offspring for ages, I didn`t realise it was said in B7. Another quote from B7 that I use (only to people who are not B7 fans tho) is to suggest an amputation when they complain of a headache. It seems to bring a smile to their face!! Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:21:57 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re{B7L] re Viewing figures Message-ID: <34AD84A5.47A7@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gordon Burgess & Carol Mason wrote: > > > >>I don`t know where you could have seen Deliverence on a week day > >>afternoon. Unless it was at a friend`s house who, like me, obtained > >>pirate copies - which was the only way to get them before the BBC > >>relented and released the official ones. One such episode has German > >>subtitles on it (Bounty, I think). > >>But then again I seem to remember reading that Deliverence and Orac were > >>shown together as a "feature length" episode, but I didn`t think that it > >>was in the UK, maybe Judith can help here? > >>Bye for now > >>Jackie > >> > >> > > I don't know about the UK but here in Australia there was four compliation > videos released, before all the episodes were available. > They were : "In the Begining" , "Duel" , "Orac" , "Aftermath" . > I don't remember them ever being shown on the ABC though. > > Carol, > > Take care, Peace be with you, We oringinally had three HEAVILY EDITED video releases here, and eventually we got the fourth (Aftermath), soon after the BBC releases all 52 episodes, the mojority of which are unedited. However, Patrick Bean who wrote the letter that I was replying to had a UK email address, and he remembered seeing the episode one afternoon. If what Patrick remembers seeing was the 2 episodes together, then I cannot understand why I do not have it on video, unless the Beeb showed it prior to series 3 being aired. Perhaps someone else can help? Anyone? Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:57:18 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <34AD8CEE.4DB3@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Patera wrote: And, if one has a > firm grip on, for instance, Jenna's true canon character, why not let > her rip as a homocidal maniac every now and then? If you've got the PMS, > baby, flaunt it! :) > > Pat P Not really adding to the debate here, just want to ask Pat P if HOMOCIDAL was the word meant, or HOMICIDAL. Or was it just a pun given that the subject matter is Slash? Just curious Jackie -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #1 ************************************