From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #25 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/25 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 25 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] RE: Doesn't like 'Harvest of Kairos'? Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. [B7L] Gareth and Jackie Re: [B7L] Clinton Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined) RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 [B7L] Zine list: multimedia erotica [B7L] Still more zine list additions Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator engine [B7L] Re: cancel subscription [B7L] Clinton and Avon Re: [B7L] Beards and Heartbeat [B7L] Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined) Re: [B7L] Clinton and Avon [B7L]: random thoughts and such from the week. [B7L] need Beta Reader RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined) Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:31:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: Doesn't like 'Harvest of Kairos'? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Sat 24 Jan, Pat Patera wrote: > G. Robbins wrote: > > > > OH DUH! Forgot about that stupid fake looking monster on Kairos.. > > yes, that did rather fling the series into a new orbit of silliness - > surely that critter wandered in from the set of Hitchhikers Guide to the > Galaxy? I always wonder how many times the crew had to reshoot that > scene facing the giant bug - I always envision them rolling on the > grass, overcome by hysterics. Is that on the bloopers film? > Pat P 'Brian the spider' as he was apparently known. You know, he couldn't have been that bad - my kids were scared of him when they first watched that epiosde! Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:27:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Sun 25 Jan, Kathryn Andersen wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 07:07:28PM -0500, DCsquared wrote: But there's a > very good Blake's 7 club in Texas, in the Dallas area, called O*R*A*C. I > used to be an overseas member, because they actually had a decent > newsletter. They seem to meet regularly, in members homes or at particular > public places. > > Tarriel Cell > newsletter of O*R*A*C - bimonthly > P.O. Box 566123 > Dallas TX 75356-6123 > USA > > That was the last address I had for them. I don't know who their current > email contact is, or who is the current editor of the newsletter. > They are now a general SF club as opposed to B7 in particular. They have a web page, and I think it's linked from mine. Try either the links page or the fan club page. When I last checked, Joe Isham ran it, but that was about a year ago. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:38:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Gareth and Jackie Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Gareth Thomas and Jacqueline Pearce will be signing items at Hollywood Superstore, 16-18 St Giles High St, London, WC2H 8LN. It's near Tottenham Court Rd, tube station. The date will be 21 Feb and the time 1pm until 4pm. The phone number for information is 0171 8363736. I'm thinking of going. If anyone else is, maybe we could meet up at Page's Bar afterwards? (Information courtesy of Sheelagh Wells) Sheelagh Wells is bringing out a new set of three bookmarks. This set is the Scorpio men - Avon, Vila and Tarrant. The set costs 3.75 pounds in the UK, or $8 to the USA. I'll be adding details to the merchandise section of the web page shortly. Sheelagh also has a new audio tape that will be premiering soon. This one will be called 'Elements' and have Jacqueline Pearce taling to Paul Darrow. The other side will have more of David Maloney, Gareth Thomas, etc. I'll give more details when I know them, but if this is as good as the previous tapes, then it will be well worth getting. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:51:03 EST From: E van Looy To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Clinton Message-ID: <5a564f85.34cbc1d9@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-25 08:24:15 EST, Julie wrote: << The inclusion of Peter "Prince of Darkness" Mandelson in the comparison was probaly a bit closer to the mark though. >> Now that you mention it, who is that? Curiously, Elise ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:16:05 EST From: E van Looy To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-ID: <848ce08d.34cbc7b7@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-25 15:43:37 EST, Pat wrote: << > JENNA: Could you kill someone? Face to face I mean. > AVON: I don't know. Could you? > JENNA: There's one sure way of finding out. This has to be my fave exchange from the whole series. I loved the moment so, it inspired me to write a 110,000 word zine, the whole storyline starting from that one exchange (Checkers - the perfect adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black). >> Ah, yes, one of my favorite zines--I never made the connection until now. Thanks for that bit of background, that was another connection I never made. I used to play a lot of checkers with my grandfather when I was young, but our stones were white and black. Or should the squares have been black and red? Our board was wooden with the black squares painted on and the others left simply wood-coloured. I apparently had a rather deprived childhood, although we were very happy living in simple harmony in our hole under the dike and hunting muskus rats for food and clothing.... Elise ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:22:20 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Fran Myers wrote: >>The Web: Avon saving Blake from the bomb, Blake giving in when Avon >>gets hit with the cattle prod, the nice camaraderie under the elms. >But Blake gives in when ANY of his friends or other innocents are >threatened. All the time. Even on the London. Check out "Horizon." >>Redemption: After the sparring, Avon covers Blake's head when they fall >>to the deck. >So Vila loves Tarrant? I guess someone has to. 8-) >He covered Tarrant's head when they hit the >ground in "Rescue"... Tarrant was barely unconscious and in danger from falling debris because there was an explosion. Avon's covering Blake was more gratuitous. >>Pressure Point: Avon holding Blake as Blake falls to his knees in >>shock and despair. >I think he'd do the same for any crew member who was upset. He needed >them. I don't think so, Fran. Blake is always a special case with Avon. >>Countdown: Blake threatens Grant if anything happens to Avon >Because he NEEDS Avon's expertise and doesn't want him killed. I >believe he would have done the same thing if, say, Vila had been in that >situation. There's also the blatant eavesdropping earlier ( that I just love). Blake's very interested in what's going on. >>Hostage: Blake holding Avon when Avon is wounded >They are all frequently holding each other when wounded or unconscious. What constitutes frequently and could you give a dozen examples of Avon holding the others when they're in pain or unconscious in ways that don't involve moving them from one spot to another? >>Voice from the Past: Avon holding Blake as Blake screams, Avon very >>concerned about Blake in general. >Avon needs Blake - he prefers the role of critic to the role of >leader. He really enjoys saying "I told you so". And this requires him to be all over Blake like green on an M&M? >>Star One: After all the yelling, Avon goes anyway (them in a >>nutshell 8-) solicitous when Blake's wounded, agrees to carry on the >>battle when Blake can't. The "I've always trusted you" scene. >Blake always knew which button to push - that was what made him such a >good leader. He always said exactly the right thing to keep crew >members working together. You can trust someone without loving them. >Or wanting to fuck them! (I wish I could say "for example, Australia's >prime minister". Unfortunately nobody wants to trust OR fuck him.) You certainly can love, trust, honor, and cherish someone without wanting to fuck him/her. I was/am just poointing out that these scenes are highly charged and that makes them grist for the slash mill. >>Aftermath: Avon's main concern is Blake (he asks Orac about him more >>than the others). >He doesn't want the burden of leadership. He know he is no good at >it. Why have a dog and bark too? Avon is more concerned about Blake than the others; they have a special relationship, more important to Avon than his relationships with the others, regardless of how it's interpreted. >>Terminal: The look on Avon's face when Servalan says Blake is dead, >>everything he does to get there. >He doesn't want to lead. He is sick of Tarrant! I interpret the look >on his face as self-anger because he fell for the trap. That, too, certainly, but the killer is that Blake's dead. After the game is lost, Avon is still holding on to the hope that Blake's alive. That's what he asks about, and that was lure that hooked him. >>Blake: Avon once again risks everything he has to get to Blake. No >>one else's (apparent) betrayal would cut as deep. >Except Anna's. Avon trusted only twice, and both times believed he >had been let down. Avon didn't take the same kind of repeated risks for Anna that he did for Blake; what he did in RoD was for himself, since he thought she was dead. He didn't kill her when he found out the truth, he killed her when she pulled a gun on him. >So, as Sue points out, there is more than one way to view these scenes. >I left out one example, as it always made me giggle to see them >"embracing". And I still can't see homosexual overtones between them. >But then I see a sexual relationship between Blake and Jenna, which some >fans don't see. Many interpretations are possible, but some are more fun than others. 8-) None rule out another--I think to be a fan of anything you have to be able to hold several, sometimes conflicting, interpretation in your head at once. Even more than the text immediately suggests. As for Blake and Jenna, well, of course! 8-) The hug in "Cygnus Alpha," handholding in "Time Squad," the many little tete-a-tetes in the early episodes, Avon's insinuation in "Weapon," Jenna being chosen as the friend in "Duel," "Hostage," etc. On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Jackie wrote: >Many thanks for the above info. I remember those scenes, but never >thought about them in a slash way. I shall have to watch them again >bearing slash in mind. For a really good laugh, try reading a slash zine while watching any episode. 8-) I love slash and it still makes me cackle. >>But the Royal Rumble free for all is about to start. 8-) > >We didn`t get the free for all (again :-( ). Did HBK survive THE GRAB >intact, do you think?? Oh, yeah, balls of steel (to go with the buns of steel) on that boy. 8-) On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Julia Jones wrote: >that I didn't see any sexual connotation in the very strong emotional >relationship between Blake and Avon, until the aforementioned frame-by- >frame description of what I should be looking at. I gave in at Duel. LOL! 8-) If that's not a testimonial, I don't know what is. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:30:58 -0000 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Message-ID: <01BD29F1.D2B86940@host5-99-54-237.btinternet.com> Sue wrote: >some of the >performances, the cliche of the religious cult leader But, but, but... that was Brian Blessed. He was being Brian Blessed. It's only a cliche because he's being doing it so long. It's like saying Clint Eastwood was just acting out a cliche in "Unforgiven". Well, yes. But it was his cliche. Blessed was playing the "Mad Diaphragm-Projecting Fanatic Religious Leader (C) 19?? Brian Blessed". The other stuff you said was true, though. I think they had got from well-thought-out pilot that had to be wonderful to sell it people and into oh-my-god-what-do-i-do-with-a-tv-crew-and-five-days-to-write-a-script territory. :-) >I'm curious about >what sort of political negotiations and compromises led to this penal >system where people are shipped off without tools or supplies, essentially >left to die. Why not just kill them off? Well, the Nazis used this sort of bizarre beaurocratic system on the Jews. They shipped them huge distances across the country, feeding them and keeping them (just about) alive, went through loads of very complicated paperchasing rituals, and then at the end just killed them. But even then they went to the trouble of gas chambers, rigged ambulances, and so on. Bullets are dirt cheap, especially when there's a war on. It's amazing the amount of time, effort and money that people will waste to convince themselves that what they are doing is not murder or genocide, it's just the way things are. The drawn-out system of death rows in America seems mad. If you're that certain that this person is so evil that they have to be put to death, just put a pistol to their heads and pull the trigger. And do it yourself, you pansy. Either that, or bin the death penalty completely as unworkable. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:58:00 GMT From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: randym7%bestweb.net%inet#@genie.geis.com, space-city%world.std.com%inet#@genie.geis.com Subject: [B7L] Zine list: multimedia erotica Message-Id: <199801260131.BAA13288@rock103.genie.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" B7 ZINE LIST E MULTIMEDIA SLASH, ADULT, AND MIXED FICTION ZINES WITH B7 CONTENT ADULT SITUATIONS #1 (US) ADULT SITUATIONS #2 (US) ADULT SITUATIONS #3 (US) ADULT SITUATIONS #5 (US) AWAKENINGS [not sure about this one] BED AND BORED (US) BENE DICTUM HALF'N'HALF (slash; US, 1995.2) BEYOND ANTARES R-RATED #5 (adult; AU) THE BLACK BOX (novel; slash, multiple crossovers; UK) BUNTING FLY #2 (slash; US, 1993?) COHORTS #1 (slash; AU, 1995) COHORTS #2 (slash; AU, 1995) COMPOUNDED INTEREST #3 (slash; US, 1995) COMPOUNDED INTEREST #4 (slash; US, 1995) CONCUPISCENCE #1 (slash; US) CONCUPISCENCE #2 (slash; US, 1992.5) CONCUPISCENCE #4 (slash; US, 1995.5) DARK FANTASIES #1 (slash; US, 1993) DARK FANTASIES #2 (slash; US, 1994.8) DARK FANTASIES #3 (slash; US, 1995.8) DARK FANTASIES #4 (slash; US, 1996.7) DARK FANTASIES #5 (slash; US, 1997.3) DIVERSE DOINGS (US, 1997.11) DYAD #15 (slash; US, 1994.4) DYAD #17 (slash; US, 1995) FRIENDS WILL BE FRIENDS #3 (slash; UK) FRISKY THE 13TH (slash; US, 1992.10) FRUIT COCKTAIL #1 (slash; US, 1991.5) FRUIT COCKTAIL #2 (slash; no B7 in #3; US) FULL CIRCLE #2 (slash; AU) HEROES #1 (slash; no B7 in #2; US) HOMOSAPIEN (slash; AU, 1991.7) HOMOSAPIEN TOO (slash; AU, 1992.5) HOMOSAPIEN TROIS (slash; B7 poetry; AU, 1993.12) I DON'T DRINK...WINE (mm vampire slash, and some gen; US, 1989.4) IF THEIR MOTHERS ONLY KNEW #1 (slash; US) IF THEIR MOTHERS ONLY KNEW #2 (slash; US, 1995) IT'S GREEK TO ME (slash; US, 1992) JUST MY TYPE (mm vampire slash; US) THE LAUGHING MUTOID #5 (humorous adult; #s 1-4 were all-B7; US, 1990) THE LAUGHING MUTOID #6 (humorous adult; US, Summer 1990) THE LAUGHING MUTOID #7 (humorous adult; US, Spring 1991) LIAISONS #1 (slash; US, 1991.5) LIAISONS #2 (slash; US, 1993.2) MEDIA RARE (adult; B7 poetry; US, 1993) MERLYN'S TALES, VOLUME 1 (slash; UK, 1994) MERLYN'S TALES, VOLUME 2 (slash; UK) MERLYN'S TALES, VOLUME 3 (slash; UK) MORE NAUGHTY BITS (humorous adult, sequel to THE NAUGHTY BITS; US, 1990) THE NAUGHTY BITS (humorous adult; US, 1989.2) NO HOLDS BARRED #1 (slash; US, 1992.5) NO HOLDS BARRED #3 (slash; US, 1993.5) NO HOLDS BARRED #9 (slash; US) NO HOLDS BARRED #12 (slash; US, 1996.5) ON THE EDGE #1 (slash and adult; US, 1993) ON THE EDGE #2 (slash and adult; B7 poetry; US, 1993) PAEAN TO PRIAPUS I (slash; US, 1990.6) PAEAN TO PRIAPUS II (slash; US, 1990.10) PAEAN TO PRIAPUS III (slash; US, 1991.10) PAEAN TO PRIAPUS IV (slash; US, 1992.8) PAEAN TO PRIAPUS V (slash; US, 1993.9) PLAIN BROWN WRAPPER #1 (US) PLAYFELLOWS #3 (slash; US) PLAYFELLOWS #4 (slash; US) PLAYFELLOWS #5 (slash; US) PLAYFELLOWS #6 (slash; US) PLAYFELLOWS #7 (slash; US) PLAYFELLOWS #8 (slash; US) RED ROSE #1 (slash; UK?) RISK (slash, and one gen play; US, 1997) SAPPHO (all f/f; B7 poetry; US, 1993.5) SATYRNALIA (slash; US) STARGATE #1 (adult?; UK, early 1980s) STARWYCK (novel by Six Ladies of Quality; slash, multiple crossovers; US) TONGUE IN CHEEK (slash; US, 1984) TOUCHED #1/2 (slash; UK, 1984) TOUCHED #3 (slash; UK, 1984) TOUCHED #4 (slash; UK, 1985) TOUCHED #5 (slash; UK, 1985) TOUCHED #6 (slash; UK, 1985) TOUCHED #7 (slash; UK, 1986.3) TOUCHED #8 (slash; UK, 1986.7) TOUCHED #9 (slash; UK, 1986.11-12) TOUCHED #10 (slash; UK, 1987.7) TOUCHED #11 (slash; UK, 1987.11) UNCHARTED WATERS #7 (slash; UK, 1993.3) UNCHARTED WATERS #8 (slash; UK) UNCHARTED WATERS #9 (slash; UK) UNCHARTED WATERS #12 (slash; UK) UNCHARTED WATERS #13 (slash; UK) THE UNIQUE TOUCH #1 (slash; UK, 1985) THE UNIQUE TOUCH #2 (slash; UK, 1988.2) XXX FILES: THE FRISKY PROJECT (slash; US, 1994.10) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:59:00 GMT From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: randym7%bestweb.net%inet#@genie.geis.com, space-city%world.std.com%inet#@genie.geis.com Subject: [B7L] Still more zine list additions Message-Id: <199801260130.BAA13283@rock103.genie.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List A, all-B7 gen Add zine: BADLANDS BLAKES 7 SPECIAL (stories reprinted from mm zine; CN) Add or correct date of publication: BEST OF SPACEFALL #1 (UK, 1986) BEST OF SPACEFALL #2 (UK, 1991) PORT IN A STORM (novella by Lisa York, reprinted from SPACEFALL #3 and later reprinted in BEST OF SPACEFALL #2; UK, 1983) SHADOW TWO (UK, 1986.4) STRANGERS AMONG US (UK, 1980 or before) [I must have gotten the 1987 date from a reprint edition.] THE WEB #2 (UK, 1993) List B, mm genzines with B7 content Add zine: MEDTREK 1991 FANZINE (AU, 1991) [That's in addition to the 1984 one. Were there more?] MULTIVERSE #28 (AU, 1996.1) MULTIVERSE #29 (AU, 1996.11) REFRACTIONS #3 (AU, 1997) [Thanks, Kathryn-- I think I must have confused this issue with the all-B5 one. What are the dates of publication for #s 1 and 2?] SHERWOOD TUNNELS #7 [Yes, it does have some B7 material in it.] List D, all-B7 adult, slash, and mixed FORBIDDEN STAR #2 (UK, 1997.12) [And thank you, Julia-- I don't know how I missed that! Maybe it's because I wasn't sure whether the date was 1997.12 or 1998.1 and was waiting for the copy I just ordered to arrive, so I could check it before I listed it, and then forgot to put it in before I sent this out. Is THE LONG WAY BACK out yet? It's listed as "forthcoming."] Sarah Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:34:40 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator engine Message-ID: <19980126073440.63626@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 09:32:48AM -0000, Sam wrote: > >>Paul asked: > >>Was the green thing at the back part of the engines? > > If I remember right (and it has been some time since I last saw Blakes 7), > wasn't there a difference between the Liberator and Federation technologies? > > The Liberator's drive system actually prpoelled the ship at emormous speeds, > while Federation ships *warped* space to achieve such speeds. > > That would make the green thing the part of the engine that *thrust* the > Liberator forward. You're getting mixed up between Liberator and Scorpio. The Scorpio "stardrive" was able to travel at "time distort" speeds in real time. The fact that the Blake's 7 crew was so astonished about this, implies heavily that the Liberator's drive still used the same "time distort" principles as the Federation drive, it was just a lot faster - more efficient? However, that doesn't preclude the green thing being part of the engine. My theory on the time-distort drive is that there were two parts to it - the time-distort part and the thrusting part. The time-distort enabled them to go a lot faster by distorting time for the same amount of space covered, but they still had to have a "thrust" part in order to actually go anywhere. Thus my idea, to be saved up for some future story, that you could get an ultra-fast drive by combining stardrive and time-distort technology. But then, you have to wonder why Dr. Plaxton didn't do that already. Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Masked man: There's something I ought to tell you... Inigo: What? Masked man: I'm not left-handed either! (The Princess Bride) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:38:29 EST From: thescifiguy@juno.com (Gordon R Payton) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: cancel subscription Message-ID: <19980125.223654.4822.1.thescifiguy@juno.com> Please cancel my membership in this e-mail club. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:25:08 -0800 From: "Adam L. Fuller" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Clinton and Avon Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980125202502.006a5514@POPD.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Let me expand a little on what I said before about the absurdity of Paul Darrow's comparison of Avon to Bill Clinton. This may sound strange to many of you, but I would say that neither one of them are motivated by power. Avon is motivated by knowledge. The power he seeks is only for knowledge it may potentially bring him. He didn't want the Liberator for idealistic goals that Blake had, he wanted it to go out and obtain knowledge for its own sake. ORAC was another tool that he and Blake used for different reasons. Avon was a very rational man, motivated by the need to explore and understand and make a point. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, is not motivated by power either. He is motivated by the job and the competition in getting the job. The job is not power for him. A man as wishy-washy as he is can't be interested in power. The power to do what? Whatever is the hot topic of the day so that he can be re-elected or leave a legacy? No, he's not a man with core principles or a desire to lead and control. He is a politician, not a leader. Yes, he's an effective president, but he's not a very powerful one. Power would require embracing a view that people in his own party would adopt and be able to lead his party to accomplishing that agenda. Half the time, his own people are against him. A man who is motivated by power would never tolerate that. He is also in love with the competition. Oh, how he loved beating up on George Bush and Bob Dole! Not because he disagreed with them and enjoyed the rational discourse, that is something Avon would have taken a lot of joy in, but because it makes him look good and makes him feel good to score extra points in this game called politics. Sorry, Mr. Darrow, I don't see the resemblance between Avon and Clinton. And I don't see either one as being motivated by power. -Adam L. Fuller ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:52:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Beards and Heartbeat Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Sun 25 Jan, Julia Jones wrote: > Well, having just watched the Heartbeat episode that Gareth's in, I'm > going to distress both Iain and Judith - even Gareth can't manage to > look cut in "Yorkshire farmer stubble". I think you meant 'cute' . I didn't expect him to look cute - he's an actor. The part didn't call for cute (besides, it was filmed before he grew the beard to a decent length). Humour - yes. Rather nice to see him playing a character that called for some subtle commedy. I hope they do use the character again, although it did take my brain a while to adjust to the Yorkshire accent. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:33:46 +0100 (MET) From: a882ws To: Subject: [B7L] Message-Id: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Tuesday, January 27th, 1998 Authenticated sender is Subject: Monday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called "spidering". 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He needed >>them. > > I don't think so, Fran. Blake is always a special case with Avon. > It's the contrast between what Avon says and his tone of voice, and the way he's holding Blake, that I really love. It's just so obvious to me that he really cares about the man, even as he's explaining that it's been a waste of time. And I thought that before I was introduced to the concept of slash. > >>>Hostage: Blake holding Avon when Avon is wounded >>They are all frequently holding each other when wounded or unconscious. > > What constitutes frequently and could you give a dozen examples >of Avon holding the others when they're in pain or unconscious in ways >that don't involve moving them from one spot to another? Well, I probably could if I went through my notes for the "touching" lists I've been doing on Space City (and I apologise to the citizens for falling behind on that recently). I suspect that doing so would show that Avon was far more intense about Blake than the others, even though he's quite a toucher in general if you watch him rather than listen to him. Best one I can remember at the moment is the one below: > >>>Voice from the Past: Avon holding Blake as Blake screams, Avon very >>>concerned about Blake in general. >>Avon needs Blake - he prefers the role of critic to the role of >>leader. He really enjoys saying "I told you so". > > And this requires him to be all over Blake like green on an M&M? He's not only all over Blake while Blake's screaming, there's the scene a bit later when Blake is unconscious and trussed up in the high backed chair, with the others standing around it. Avon is standing behind the chair, leaning on it. He isn't actually touching Blake, because of the chair design, but the impression of "protective hovering" is very strong. > > >>>Aftermath: Avon's main concern is Blake (he asks Orac about him more >>>than the others). >>He doesn't want the burden of leadership. He know he is no good at >>it. Why have a dog and bark too? > > Avon is more concerned about Blake than the others; they have a >special relationship, more important to Avon than his relationships with >the others, regardless of how it's interpreted. Avon clearly loves Blake, whether or not you think he has any sexual interest in him. As in: > >>>Terminal: The look on Avon's face when Servalan says Blake is dead, >>>everything he does to get there. And then there's "Blake".... From my earlier post: > >>that I didn't see any sexual connotation in the very strong emotional >>relationship between Blake and Avon, until the aforementioned frame-by- >>frame description of what I should be looking at. I gave in at Duel. > > LOL! 8-) If that's not a testimonial, I don't know what is. > The fact that I'm now writing the stuff, after spending my first 18 years as a fan totally unaware of the possibility? Hi Judith, thank you for the frame-by-frame... -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:29:21 -0600 From: Reuben To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Clinton and Avon Message-ID: <34CC495F.547E@reuben.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam L. Fuller wrote: > Bill Clinton, on the other hand, is not motivated by power either. He is > motivated by the job and the competition in getting the job. The job is not > power for him. A man as wishy-washy as he is can't be interested in power. > The power to do what? Whatever is the hot topic of the day so that he can > be re-elected or leave a legacy? No, he's not a man with core principles or > a desire to lead and control. He is a politician, not a leader. Yes, he's > an effective president, but he's not a very powerful one. Power would > require embracing a view that people in his own party would adopt and be > able to lead his party to accomplishing that agenda. Half the time, his own > people are against him. A man who is motivated by power would never > tolerate that. He is also in love with the competition. Oh, how he loved > beating up on George Bush and Bob Dole! Not because he disagreed with them > and enjoyed the rational discourse, that is something Avon would have taken > a lot of joy in, but because it makes him look good and makes him feel good > to score extra points in this game called politics. Boy isn't it fun to kick a man when he's down. I really like the part about not disagreeing with George Bush and Bob Dole. They agree on a few issues like budget reform, and now it just politics to score points. If there has EVER been a President that enjoyed rational discourse it is Bill Clinton. The town meeting style discussions with the public, and with opponents, the weekly radio talks (ever listen to them, very well thought out not just used for scoring points on an opponent). The man is all about new ideas. No President since FDR has introduced more reform. Anyway I don't like to go on like this on a Blake's 7 mailing list, there are better places for discussing politics. I don't mind tangents, in fact I really enjoy them. But, the political one is to prone just to turn into massive argument (As is the religous one: I learned my lesson on that one after starting the notorious Who and Religion thread on rec.arts.drwho) Appologies for any toes stepped on. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:20:06 -0500 (EST) From: adering@ziplink.net (Alex Dering) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L]: random thoughts and such from the week. Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone. Well, I kept piling up the messages and finally got the opportunity to read through them all. Just to address a few topics that stuck in my mind: 1. Oral sex and men with beards tickling during... Well, I think, just as a general practice, that it isn't very nice to tickle someone while you are performing oral sex. Keep your fingers somewhere else. (Oh, wait, you meant the _beard_) Carry on... 2. The issue of women having to be so much better than men to succeed... No arguments from me on that one. Similarly, I note there are studies (which I have not read) which demonstrate that fat people get lower grades in school than their slim counterparts (which also backs up the ages-old studies which showed that the student's name will affect the grade he or she gets). However, although there are women who are tremendously talented and unrecognized, I would also submit that there are men who are talented and unrecognized (such as yours truly) and that there are also women (and men) who are hopelessly inept, petty, stupid, etc. who certainly get away with a hell of a lot. 3. The whole issue of all planets looking like quarries... In one of the new Doctor Who novels the Sylvester McCoy Doctor points out that the earth is precious and then says something on the idea of "most of the planets in the universe look like quarries." 4. Liberator models... I remember seeing in a catalog, many years ago, an ad for a Liberator model (at $50 American). At the time I didn't know what Blake's 7 was, and I didn't want to spend that much money on an unknown thing. Ooohhh.... D'oh. 5. The Clinton Thing... Well, I have stopped reading the newspapers. In fact, I haven't touched one, except for the lightest of perusing, in over two months. Keep in mind I majored in Journalism in college and graduate school. Everyone it seems has a very vocal opinion about Clinton and his presidential penis. Personally, I don't particularly object on a moral ground. My objection is that: Clinton, years ago, when he got married, stood in a church -- thus invoking a Supreme Deity of some sort -- and said before all his friends -- thus invoking his community -- that he (and Hillary) had come to a decision on something important -- and that he wanted them all to bear witness to this so that they would understand how much it mattered. In addition to this, he got a marriage license -- thus invoking the legal community. So I don't mind that he fooled around, that's not my place to mind. What I mind is that he basically has demonstrated that he now considers one of the biggest events of his life, an event that tied together aspects of his faith, friends, and community, to have been a hollow mouthing of words. We're not talking about promising to meet up with friends here. Anyway, I tried to explain this opinion to the people at work but they kept not letting me finish, so please forgive my rambling on the subject, but if anyone -would- care to voice an opinion (private e-mail would probably be best, so that I don't clog up the e-mail with this) I would certainly welcome some critiquing of my thought patterns. 6. Speaking of work... Can anyone recommend any good science fiction novels? I work at a Barnes and Nobel and I feel I should try to read some of the less-well-known authors in that genre (as it's where I work in the bookstore). Once again, that one can be private e-mail, although I don't think it's too far afield for the list. Anyway, have a great week everyone. Alex -- And let's hear it for Dr. Frances Kelsey -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:17:16 +1100 (EST) From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list) Subject: [B7L] need Beta Reader Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Yes," she said, speaking in hope, "I need a Beta Reader." To read - tada! - the next part of Winning Is The Only Safety, whose first-ish draft is almost finished. It's only a first-ish draft, because I've started it and ripped it up a couple of times since I started. The plot now bears no resemblance to what I had originally intended when I started the thing. So. I need a beta reader, to rip it to shreds, and hand the tatters back to me promptly. If possible, someone who is familiar with both Blake's 7 and Highlander (to tell me if I've got the characters right) or someone not familiar with either (to tell me if it's completely incomprehensible). Now you know how I spent the long weekend... Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Avon: We don't mind second-hand goods, do we Vila? Vila: No, we're not fussy. (Blake's 7: Killer [B7]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:42:11 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Louise Rutter wrote: > >some of the > >performances, the cliche of the religious cult leader > > But, but, but... that was Brian Blessed. He was being Brian Blessed. It's > only a cliche because he's being doing it so long. It's like saying Clint The character of Vargas, a crazed cult leader is a cliche. Brian Blessed's performance has nothing to do with the cliche-ness of the role. No matter who played the role, the role was a cliche. Brian was over-the-top, Brian is always over-the-top, I love Brian's over- the-topness. Although there are moments when he makes me wince in "Cygnus Alpha," the same is true of several others. However, none of them is as bad as, say, Governor LeGrand is "Voice from the Past." > The other stuff you said was true, though. I think they had got from > well-thought-out pilot that had to be wonderful to sell it people and into > oh-my-god-what-do-i-do-with-a-tv-crew-and-five-days-to-write-a-script > territory. :-) The worst part isn't even the script, it's the shoddy editing at the end. It takes ineptitude to new depths. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:49:47 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Julia Jones wrote: > Well, I probably could if I went through my notes for the "touching" > lists I've been doing on Space City (and I apologise to the citizens for Some people here might be interested in seeing those lists as well... > falling behind on that recently). I suspect that doing so would show > that Avon was far more intense about Blake than the others, even though > he's quite a toucher in general if you watch him rather than listen to > him. Best one I can remember at the moment is the one below: Between cuddling Blake and grabbing women, he's the most tactile of the crew. > He's not only all over Blake while Blake's screaming, there's the scene > a bit later when Blake is unconscious and trussed up in the high backed > chair, with the others standing around it. Avon is standing behind the > chair, leaning on it. He isn't actually touching Blake, because of the > chair design, but the impression of "protective hovering" is very > strong. Avon does hover near Blake a lot. My favorites are the bookend scenes in "Horizon" where Blake is sitting on the couch and Avon is sending behind him, bending over to talk to him. There's also the one in "Breakdown" where Avon is kneeling while they discuss Zen going off-line. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:12:56 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote: > yes. oh yes. you go grrl! how sad that the writers quit writing her > these quips. They stopped the quips and her fighting talents and left her very little. They weren't all that great with the other women, either. In fact, the limitations of the writers' imaginations are really evident in the way the women's roles were written. Some were worse than others, of course...Ben Steed and Robert Holmes are two names that leap immediately to mind. > I can only hope that fan writers take the opportunity to pen more > wonderful verbal jabs for Jenna. I think they're all hung up on Cally, Servalan, or Soolin because of the Avon fixation. 8-) > > JENNA: Could you kill someone? Face to face I mean. > > AVON: I don't know. Could you? > > JENNA: There's one sure way of finding out. > > This has to be my fave exchange from the whole series. I loved the > moment so, it inspired me to write a 110,000 word zine, the whole > storyline starting from that one exchange (Checkers - the perfect > adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black). Oh. Uh. I was really surprised to read this, Pat, because when I read Checkers my impression was "here's someone who really despises Jenna." The reason it hit me that way is that Jenna's suffering is more extreme than Avon's, much more public humiliation for instance, and it really bothered me. Then there was the problem of what was going on with Blake. But the way Jenna was treated really left a bad taste in my mouth and I figured you must just hate the character. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #25 *************************************