From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #27 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/27 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 27 Today's Topics: [B7L] The long way back - Melody Clark [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #26 Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton Re: [B7L] : Harvest of kairos, Average B7age ,etc Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 [B7L] Oh NO, it's politics Re[2]: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Re: [B7L] Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:20:22 +1000 From: Pat Fenech To: space-city@world.std.com Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] The long way back - Melody Clark Message-Id: <199801270121.CAA04353@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A view of "The long way back" -a slash zine- by Melody Clark. __________________________________________________ Twenty years on... hardly seems likely, or possible, but here we are nonetheless all those years later about to celebrate the Twentieth Anniversary of the original screening of 'Blakes 7' and as we are it does tend to urge the mind to consider just what it is about the series that is so enduringly appealing. Well, I find my mind attempting such - but with very little success. Asked just what it is about this television programme that sets it apart from so many others I have liked, which endears it to me as no other, I find no nice neat summary presents itself in reply. Pressed, my brain shrugs and mutters 'who knows?' Not prepared to put up with this I insist the brain make a bit more of an effort! Think about it, I urge. So think I have - of the low budget, which shows, of the superficially not terribly remarkable storyline of rebellion against repressive government, conducted by a dysfunctional group of clashing personalities; hardly the stuff from which twenty years of dreaming would follow, and yet... it has. But though I have loved it for those twenty years, even now I cannot explain why in any systematic way. All I can say is that there is just something about it, some serendipitous combination of elements, which created some sort of magic, elements which I cannot define no matter how much I think about it, but which must be there. What has all this to do with 'The long way back' ? Well, it occurs that perhaps it may have been musings along lines such as this which produced the basic concept upon which the whole story - of which 'The long way back' is the second part - is constructed. For it seems to me anyway that in a way the story is based upon a recognition of the fortuitousness of the gathering of just exactly the right elements which when put together would perfectly gel to transform what might have been wholly unremarkable into a phenomenon of enduring worth. To explain just why such a thought occurs would be to spoil the story, but if you find it intriguing then read the stories - smile - for they are worth the reading and perhaps after you have read both - and if you have denied yourself the pleasure of reading 'The last best hope , forbear denial at once and read it, as you must to fully appreciate its equally exceptional continuation - then perhaps you too may find your mind wondering as mine has about the chances of just the right elements being collected together, at just the right moment, with just the right people, seeming to be altogether too much of a coincidence to be one. As perhaps Melody's did... and wondering she conceived within the realms of her prodigious imagination an explanation which became these two halves of a wholly wonderful story. I am always somewhat reluctant to write reviews I have to confess. I doubt my tastes in 'Blakes 7' stories are in any way typical. So for the most part I feel somewhat reticent to inflict them upon you all. But I so much admire Melody Clark s writing that for no other reason really than to acknowledge this, and to share my enthusiasm for a story which I have come to love, I have written what is perhaps not so much a review as my appreciation of 'The long way back'. 'The long way back' takes up the story almost immediately after the conclusion of 'The last best hope' . Basically the first story postulates that years after Gauda Prime - which they all managed to survive and put behind them to defeat the Federation - Blake' s government, or more specifically Blake' s ethos and style of government has fallen foul of the conservative elements left over from Federation days. Blake has had to choose between the welfare of his crew and his government, has chosen his crew and consequently has had to escape from Earth into purposeless exile, all his achievements shattered. During the unfolding of the events which have led to their flight from Earth Blake and Avon have discovered hints that their association may have been of a far longer duration than they had thought and more to provide some sense of purpose than anything else Avon decides to follow up these hints by exploring his past. This takes them to a forsaken planet called Gondoran where once there was a Federation project called Standard Increase, and where once a small boy called Avon was being groomed, amongst others, to become the human equivalent and model for a computer which would have the capability of working as a human brain does. This is the point from which Melody takes up the story and begins to weave a continuation from various seemingly divergent, but ultimately closely linked elements - some taken from the past - the past Blake and Avon had shared but lost - some from the present - the desperate fight they must wage against a religious fanatic conducting a holy war. Eventually the elements begin to converge, past and present combine to create a backdrop against which the climax of the story is played out - a battle, symbolic, magical, but also frighteningly real, which takes place within the characters, between the characters, and ultimately, finally concludes within the eye of infinity; a battle as old as humanity, and as new as squadrons of DSVs pitted against Blake s seven. It is a wonderful story which I cannot say anything much about without spoiling it. So instead I will enthuse about the elements employed to create it... elements such as the writing which is *special*. Everywhere the writing entrances me with its spell binding imaginativeness and the skill with which the imagination is translated into word, words which are used to challenge the intellect to think... of such things as the concept of self About how the sense of self might deal with the loss of definition through something like mind-wiping. 'What time deprived the intellect of,' Melody suggests memorably, 'the soul kept track of...' 'the details of memory were preserved in a solution of feelings.' while at the same time suggesting a possible explanation to one of the talking points about the series - here a plausible, and beautiful, reason why Blake so readily took to rebellion again, despite what had been done to his mind. They are also used to encourage the imagination to conjure; to conceive of what it might be like to imagine a 'technicolour nightmare by Salvador Dali' and make it a reality; to create a planetscape - Gondoran, a planet burnt beneath a Titan sun. One of the natural elements produced is described thus, 'the white foliage of Gondoran ... called Virgin Flora, but it was not the colour of innocence. It was the whiteness of the forsaken of that left by life.' An evocative description, but, it seems to me to be more than that, for with the physical representation Melody is creating an analogy for the events which have occurred on the planet and for those which will occur. Words which examine and encourage the reader to consider some of the questions of existence common to any time or state; dilemmas such as the worst of results produced by the best of intentions; or idealism untempered by consideration for the individual effect of measures taken for the greater good producing tyranny far more harmful than any it seeks to combat. Also examined are questions such as the nature of love and the dichotomy all human beings are with their variable mixtures of good and bad and along the way many an insightful comment upon society is to be found: Leusip: You have chosen to care for others. That doesn t seem so very hard(tough). Dayna: 'Soft people do not necessarily care for each other. They are just infinitely polite to each other. They nod in passing ... They ask each other, 'How are you? when no-one really cares.' Or, 'Vision can be a sort of blindness... I was young and the young are enamored of panacea.' But for all their broader applicability they are not presented as meaningless generalities but explanations, comments, motivations which are completely relevant to this story and insightful within the context of 'Blakes 7 . And everywhere the words are used skillfully to construct a multi-layered story, to suggest meanings within meanings, symbolic and suggestive of one of the main themes of the story - paradox. Everywhere elements reflect other elements - the special capabilities of Avon and Blake mirroring the two computer systems which are a central element of the plot. Another example is Gondoran which is described as having a dark side and a light side. The light side being where Standard Increase was established, where the man that Avon was to become, with all his darkness of spirit, was largely created. The dark side, ruined by humanity made environmental disaster became the realm of an illusion maker and will be where Tarrant is confronted with the dark side of his nature and yet it will also become the place from which the battalions of light will form up to do battle with those of the dark unleashed from the light side. It is intricate, it is clever, it is fascinating and wholly engrossing and enjoyable to read. And all of this is woven unobtrusively in and about a story which is constructed from a myriad of interesting and diverse elements, so myriad and diverse I can only marvel at the intelligence, the breadth of the imagination and the skill of the pen which combined to set them down in believable detail and slotted them seamlessly into the usually fairly restrictive framework of a story based within the familiar parameters of 'Blakes 7' . Elements as diverse as how evil might recruit its generals and battalions; what the experience might have been like for those who attempted covert dissension within Federation society; what effect certain types of directed education might have upon a developing spirit; the final examination for an apprentice master magician; and the fascinatingly realised examination of the concept of the power of minds in rapport and what might be achieved by such powerful harmony. And lest you imagine that all of this may detract or distract or neglect 'Blakes 7' be assured it does not. All of it is imagined from within the context we are so familiar with and is essentially an examination of the most complex and interesting of all the aspects of the series, well for me, the relationship between Blake and Avon. It builds upon what we know from the series, to create their pasts, a past they shared then lost. The reason it is lost being the lynchpin of the entire story both past and present. Not only is the detail of the series used with memorable imaginativeness but Melody also recreates most of the characters in loving detail within scenes which skillfully interplay thought and word and deed to provide fresh insights and a deeper understanding of them, well so I thought, and paint wonderfully detailed and true- to-themselves portraits of them all in all their moods and manners. If you were ambivalent about Tarrant before reading this story, you may find that you have more sympathy for him when you have read the way Melody has constructed some moments in his past and present. If you have ever wondered about Soolin s past, you will find it here imagined in a most thought provoking way as she smiles her 'corrosive smile ; if you ever wondered where Vila learnt his magic tricks and what they might suggest about the sharp mind he likes to hide behind the 'fool that I am facade then read on... and if you find Blake and Avon fascinating and their relationship pivotal then you will find much to think upon, suggested by such moments as; 'Blake: 'You will follow me down? He thought Avon wasn t going to reply, but then just as Blake crossed the threshold a soft sentence followed after him. 'Oh, Blake, don t I always,' it said, as the door slipped closed between them.' Or all that is implied by a remark of Dayna s about them, 'They are well when they are together. As well as finding their every gesture and their essence recaptured in descriptions such as, 'He sensed the boy's presence... It was a warm transfusion in the cold, spare room' and 'Feeling the weight of Roj s steady gaze, the moist brown eyes that gave report on every emotion passing through his heart Leusip could not bear to look upon them, but he could feel their conviction given from Blake s heart, just as the other boy... could convey with one stolid glance the indictment of his mind.' Or Avon s annoyance at the sound of Blake s voice, 'charged as usual with reasonless urgency', and Blake s inward description of Avon smiling, 'A smile of pain, and Avon smile.' Everywhere the writing is captivating, powerful, memorable, creating moments of unforgettable vividness which engulf you in their intensity, such as Avon s thoughts as he faces death; or the moment when a gesture of Blake s suggests quite unequivocally to Avon that Blake loves him, not as just another of the amorphous generality of the universe, but specifically and passionately, or a parting so sad I will never forget it. To suggest just how strikingly interesting and varied and intelligent the writing to be found in 'The long way back' is you have but to begin it. The first few pages contain an exploration of a profound paradox; the description of the beginnings of disillusionment in a disciple for his teacher; a charming portrait of Blake; an examination of the way evil entices malleable servants; the dilemma of good intentions confronted with the unexpected results of a single-minded pursuit of ideals and the beginnings of the exploration of Melody s conception of what made Avon the way he was - in eight pages of beautiful writing which flows through the establishing of themes so effortlessly it perhaps suggests without intending to do so just how effortlessly these elements will integrate as the story unfolds and also suggests forcibly just how good a story this is and how well it is written. The story as it unfolds is an adventure on an epic scale. The battle of good against evil conducted upon a canvas of marvelous invention- from a Mars orbiting satellite, to an ancient control room among almost sentient machinery, in the minds of Blake and Avon and then through their minds as they, representing intuition and logic, attempt to join their minds to achieve an impossibility. It is conducted in caves with purple rivers, in space against squadrons of Liberators and in the hearts of them all. And woven through it all is a love story of great power and poignancy. As I said originally this is not so much a review as just my appreciation of this story. I know that there will be those who like 'Blakes 7' fanfiction who will not like this story - for many reasons. But, for myself I think 'The last best hope' and 'The long way back' together are the best 'Blakes 7' story I have ever read. Firmly and lovingly based upon the original they tell the same story in a completely new way, tell the story as it might have been, as I would like to imagine it was. And they tell this story that I like so very much in a way which stimulates my mind and completely engages my emotions, in writing I admire for its intelligence, its creativity and its beauty. But also now in this year of thinking about why I love 'Blakes 7' they also perhaps suggest an insight into that mystery, at least for me. For they suggest most appealingly that for all the seeming randomness of events, the seeming uncaring face the universe generally presents, that perhaps there might be some force keeping a general eye upon things and sometimes intervening to set things that are completely wrong at least back on the right track, or if you like, that there is a place for hope despite everything. And perhaps that is what I like about 'Blakes 7' ? Despite the end, despite all, the mere idea of these people fighting the seemingly hopeless fight is ultimately hopeful. Though this is not a view I expect many fans to share -smile - just as I suspect that some, perhaps many, will not feel as I do about 'The long way back' . But for what it's worth I love it, love them both. It is a wonderful story, wonderfully written, one that I am glad to have had the opportunity to read. At one point in the story Vila recalls an admonition from his childhood which said, 'May your courage be as vast as your imagination.' Having now read these two stories I cannot help but think that Melody s courage, and skill, was more than a match for her imagination - smile - Visually the zine is pleasingly presented, as Judith Proctor' s always are. It is nicely laid out and the type-face is clear and large enough for me to read without difficulty, always a decided plus. It has a beautiful cover, a thoroughly charming portrait of Blake and Avon set into a skillful composite of the main elements of the story. The interior art by Val Westall everywhere provides visual enhancement to key moments in the story. I particularly liked the illustration which accompanies one of the scenes which recalls the shared past of Blake and Avon, a moment of extreme poignancy which Val has caught in the look in Avon' s eyes. The final illustration also charms me very much because I was thoroughly charmed by the conclusion of the story which it represents, but about which I am not going to say one more word in case you feel inclined to read and see what I mean for yourself. It is available from Judith and is worth every credit. Its a lovely zine. They both are and as a reasonably new to zine buying fan I can only thank Judith for her commendable efforts to reprint some of the classic 'Blakes 7' stories which otherwise might have been lost forever to the realms of myth and to my eyes -smile - Pat Fenech ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:07:12 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #26 Message-ID: <19980126.190417.8951.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> E van Looy wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-24 20:39:05 EST, DCsquared wrote: > > << Perhaps he was just alluding to the fact that Clinton is "under attack" > from > all sides, and is in essence "fighting for his life". >> > > Ooh, Clinton standing in the middle of the Oval Office bathed in flashing red > lights surrounded by FBI agents. He raises his gun, smiles and steps forward > to straddle the body of...hmm, maybe we should not go there. > > Elise "I'm not signing this one!" No! No! No! Cut! Cut! it`s: straddles body, raises gun, then smiles! See? it says so in the script! Jackie (the frustrated director) - ---------------------------- And then Jackie yells: "Reshoot! Your pants are unzipped!" Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:11:38 EST From: E van Looy To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-26 17:55:11 EST, you write: << * Avon never brags about how he could kill people with one hand tied behind his back - too right I demand chapter and verse. That isn't to say that Avon isn't good at exuding menace; but he does that so that he *won't* have to kill people. >> The impression was first very strongly given in Horizon, where he single handedly rescues the whole crew like Rambo going after POW's. But now that I think about it, I'm not sure how high the body count really was. He shot a few cameras. And Blake almost. And I'm pretty sure he shot a Federation guard--I'd have to see the tape again but I'm afraid it's my bedtime. Anybody have a tally of how many people Avon actually killed (up close and personal, not by firing from the Liberator) as opposed to Blake or Jenna or the rest of the crew? Elise ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:16:45 EST From: E van Looy To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] : Harvest of kairos, Average B7age ,etc Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-26 12:59:43 EST, you write: << eeeerrrm?!? would you like to duck and run now? while you are still in one piece? before the Avonites getcha? Using the term "nerd" to describe "Avon" will get exactly 60 seconds head start. GO!! Jackie (frantically lacing up trainers) >> Hey, what can I say? Some of my best friends are nerds. Really! But Patti wrote << Now, as for Avon being a nerd -- no, no, don't run, that's my slide rule, not my gun! Hey, I love Avon as much as next addict, but I can't deny what he was. The kick for me is in watching him transform himself from a nerd into a flamboyant space pirate with delusions of grandeur, while all the while underneath is that poor, scared nerd who just wants to be safe.>> I guess that put my feelings into words better than I could have. Thanks! Elise ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:40:30 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Message-ID: <34CD653E.70F9@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: >It's the wonky timeline in the episode > that really has me fascinated, and that's not just the question of what > B, J and A where doing for four months. "The Missing Four Months" X-Files Theory #1 1. The space battle that left the Liberator listing tore a hole in the fabric of time, which slowly oozed open into this space; so both the London and the Liberator reached Cygnus Alpha earlier than expected. About 4 days seem to have passed, for the prisoners are still in a holding cell. Surely if planting season had rolled around, they would be out weeding the rocks. And after 4 months, Avon & Jenna would have killed one another, squabbling over the contents of the treasure room. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:34:51 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Message-ID: <34CD63EB.57DA@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NWOutsider (Sue) wrote: > I love Brian's over- > the-topness. Although there are moments when he makes me wince in > "Cygnus Alpha," the same is true of several others. However, none of > them is as bad as, say, Governor LeGrand is "Voice from the Past." I rather liked LeGrand Dame. She and Blake were a hoot trying to out-behumble one another: "To lead them - You. No, you." But it was Travis, playing Shevan the Rebel (aka The Mummy) who was totally OTT. When it comes to terrible acting, that episode took top honors on all fronts. Blake trying to be devious at the start, Blake trying to sound sleezy about Avon and Cally. And that full screen view of Servalan doing a floor to ceiling gloat. "Animals" may take top honors for terrible plot, but "Voices" wins for over acting. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:36:03 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-ID: <34CD7243.78E0@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit E van Looy wrote: > I used to play a lot of checkers with my grandfather when I was young, but our > stones were white and black. Or should the squares have been black and red? Most checkers boards have black & red squares with alternating black & red chips. The object is to sneak up on the opponent unseen and leap over his/her head, thereby killing as many of the opponent's chips as possible. One wins by attrition. It lacks the delicate strategy of chess and is more about crass bludgeoning. Hence the strategic similie to the story (a strategy worthy or Carnell - or even Servalan - is, alas, beyond me). Perhaps I've seen the other colored boards and mistook them for Chess sets? But then, my family was so poor we could only afford two colors. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:03:46 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-ID: <34CD78C2.3032@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NWOutsider wrote: >> re: (Checkers - the perfect >> adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black). > > when I read Checkers my impression was "here's someone who really > despises Jenna." Not at all. I gave her gobs of ink - nearly half the book! (Tarrant, by contrast, got only a few lines.) I spent a great many hours with Jenna while penning that tale. (I can take Tarrant's company for only so long.) She's quite a stout companion. Surely positioning her as a competent adversary for Avon is the highest honor a Disgustingly Slavering Avon Fan could bestow on any fanzine adversary? Besides, I let her live. > The reason it hit me that way is that Jenna's suffering is more extreme than Avon's, Perhaps you empathize more naturally with the female. I tried to give each, equally, what they would most hate. For how else could they triumph over it most courageously? Surely others who do stories get totally opposite opinions and reactions from readers? Some said the portrayal of Avon is too soft; others said he's too hard. He's too mean to Vila. Or to Jenna. Or he's too put upon by Jenna. (naw-- no fan *ever* says the story was too mean to Avon) well, maybe the one with the spoon .-{ *sigh* he suffers so beautifully. Disgustingly Slavering Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:41:29 -0800 From: Ovina Maria Feldman To: B7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Message-ID: <34CDABC9.AD157F3B@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PATTI McCLELLAN wrote: > > The worst thing about Vargas is his lack of decent > footwear... Oh good one! Why didn't they just put him boots the same as everyone else? Or better still boots with stilleto heels. -- C progamme run. C programme crash. C programmer quit. Return to COBOL. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:19:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Sam wrote: > PatP said > >> Babylon 5 did not learn the lesson and continues to drag on long after the plotline > >> (the Shadow War) ended. Quitting while I'm ahead. > > Some of my friends have wondered if the guy behind Babylon 5 - J Michael Straczynski - might not have been involved in role playing games in his youth. B5 was written with a plot line over several series. Very much like a referee would plan an long term campaign for a fantasy role playing game. > > Remarkably well done. Other writers/producers please take note. > > Imagine if Blakes 7 had been written in a similar way. What would that have been like? Pretty much like the show we got, I reckon. In fact, B7 reminds me much much more of roleplaying than B5 does. The latter is essentially constructed like an epic novel, with a few interesting structural features to cope with the realities of TV series production. It's very tightly plotted. In rolegames, the referee has some kind of plot worked out, but the players inevitably go off on various tangents, screw up royally, spend all their time bickering instead of getting on with it, are much more concerned with themselves than with their mission or duty... Sound familiar? Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:23:14 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-ID: <19980127192314.22777@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 09:33:38PM -0000, Sam wrote: > PatP said > >> Babylon 5 did not learn the lesson and continues to drag on long after the plotline > >> (the Shadow War) ended. Quitting while I'm ahead. > > Some of my friends have wondered if the guy behind Babylon 5 - J > Michael Straczynski - might not have been involved in role playing games > in his youth. B5 was written with a plot line over several series. Very > much like a referee would plan an long term campaign for a fantasy role > playing game. > > Remarkably well done. Other writers/producers please take note. > > Imagine if Blakes 7 had been written in a similar way. What would that > have been like? Exactly the same. Blake's 7 came up with story arcs first. So there. Kathryn Andersen (also disillusioned with Babylon 5) -=-=-=-=-=-=- Say it with flowers - send a Triffid. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 1998 09:22:13 -0800 From: "Buck, Courtney" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Oh NO, it's politics Message-ID: >Grace Robbins wrote (re: Clinton commment) >For my opinion, I don't think PD did put much thought into that response >in the first place. I seemed to get the impression he was imparting some >light humor. That was *my* impression the first time I read his response. He was just being funny. And I laughed because *I* thought it WAS funny. I still think it's funny. Courtney (an AVON fan) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:22:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: pussnboots@geocities.com, "blakes7" Subject: Re[2]: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Content-Disposition: inline Regarding Voices: I kept waiting for Avon to inquire of Shevan whether he knew someone had attached a false eyeball to his bandages. Patti ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:18:41 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! > > Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. > This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email > addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect > anything...you are only limited by your imagination! Arghhh! More sodding spam! The situation is starting to look decidedly iffy! Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:44:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Tue 27 Jan, PATTI McCLELLAN wrote: > Jenna's bond with Zen was always something I wanted to do > a story about. I just never figured out a decent plot. Except > I did have this idea that Jenna might have "felt" it when Zen > died, which might have contributed to her willingness to > sacrifice herself on GP, if that's where she in fact died. > Anyhow, if anyone has written this, please let me know, so I > can read it. Read 'Unconscious Influences' by Andrew Williams in Star Three. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:36:10 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-ID: <19980127223610.14731@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 10:28:14AM -0800, Pat Patera wrote: > > JENNA: Could you kill someone? Face to face I mean. > > AVON: I don't know. Could you? > > JENNA: There's one sure way of finding out. > > This has to be my fave exchange from the whole series. I loved the > moment so, it inspired me to write a 110,000 word zine, the whole > storyline starting from that one exchange (Checkers - the perfect > adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black). > > Any other story writers who launched a ship from a single set of lines? Stories, no. But more than one poem of mine has been launched from such a set. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:51:11 -0000 From: "Sam" To: "Blakes7" Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-ID: <01bd2b5c$eb0682e0$d74698c2@swhsfzrw> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Pretty much like the show we got, I reckon. In fact, B7 reminds me much >much more of roleplaying than B5 does. The latter is essentially >constructed like an epic novel, with a few interesting structural features >to cope with the realities of TV series production. It's very tightly >plotted. In rolegames, the referee has some kind of plot worked out, but >the players inevitably go off on various tangents, screw up royally, spend >all their time bickering instead of getting on with it, are much more >concerned with themselves than with their mission or duty... > >Sound familiar? > >Iain I played two long term Advanced Dungeons & Dragons campaigns. The first lasted 10 years - my time, not the characters time. My Dwarven fighter went with his friends, followers of Norse Gods, to Ragnorok. And died a glorious death. That party worked together very well following aims and goal we all could agree on. The second campaign, AD&D, similar world and same players was a more fractious affair. Lasted a few years and by coincidence, the most irritating character (and player) got his come-upance from my character. The long term planning by the B5 people must have been difficult to sell but it has produced a series I very much enjoy and appreciate. Sadly the time, money and courage to do *quality* series such as B5 and Star Trek The Next Generation has come too late for Blakes 7. Unless of course someone with a lot of energy and bright ideas could resurrect it. Sam sam@slade.softnet.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:51:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Tue 27 Jan, E van Looy wrote: > Anybody have a tally of how many people Avon actually killed (up close and > personal, not by firing from the Liberator) as opposed to Blake or Jenna or > the rest of the crew? 36 kills. I just grabbed my copy of Sevencyclopaedia and looked it up. If you want to know who they all were, buy your own copy . Far more accurate and far more detailed than the Programme Guide, it's a very handy reference book, especially for writers. I have copies and it can be bought via Linda Knights or Maverick Press in the USA. Prices etc. are on the infamous web page. The highest kill count per episode goes to Soolin. Gan is the only character with zero kills during the series. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:23:13 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-ID: In message <34CD7243.78E0@geocities.com>, Pat Patera writes >E van Looy wrote: > >> I used to play a lot of checkers with my grandfather when I was young, but our >> stones were white and black. Or should the squares have been black and red? > >Most checkers boards have black & red squares with alternating black & >red chips. Most of the ones I've seen are black and white. >Perhaps I've seen the other colored boards and mistook them for Chess >sets? And I've seen chess sets in black and red. > -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:28:47 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-ID: In message <34CD78C2.3032@geocities.com>, Pat Patera writes >NWOutsider wrote: >>> re: (Checkers - the perfect >>> adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black). >> >> when I read Checkers my impression was "here's someone who really >> despises Jenna." > >Not at all. I gave her gobs of ink - nearly half the book! (Tarrant, by >contrast, got only a few lines.) I spent a great many hours with Jenna >while penning that tale. (I can take Tarrant's company for only so >long.) She's quite a stout companion. Surely positioning her as a >competent adversary for Avon is the highest honor a Disgustingly >Slavering Avon Fan could bestow on any fanzine adversary? Besides, I let >her live. > Have to say that I didn't like the story as much as I might have, because it seemed to portray Jenna as a jealous, spiteful bitch - not something I like or find particularly believable. She's got very good reasons for not trusting Avon (three gaping holes in Blake's chest), but her attitude comes over as being down to personal jealousy and animosity, rather than a genuine concern that Avon is too dangerous to Blake. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:09:56 -0500 (EST) From: Elbert G Rudasill To: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-Id: <199801271909.OAA12896@pobox.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look, I haven't posted in quite a while. But keep your eyes open. B5 isn't just about the *Shadow War*. JMS has stated on national TV that Blake's 7 *is* one of the stronger influences on the show, just as is the Lord of the Rings and Foundation trilogies. And IMHO B5 is a much *stronger* programme, because unlike B7, the galaxy of B5 is much better thought out, the plot line(s) are a helluva lot more intricate, and there is more to the programme than homosexual overtones and sardonic characters attempting to prove who is superior to whom (and *yes* I'm talking about AVON). As a series, B5 is already superiror to B7 becasue at least they know what their ending is going to be instead of cheating the veiwers with a cheap cliffhanger. (Don't get me wrong, I *do* enjoy Blake's 7), but some of the recent comments on this list re: Babylon-5 are unwarrented and quite small minded. Babylon 5 is *not* just about the shadow war, it's also about the Narn Centauri war, the Earth civil war, The colonies battle for independence, the Minbari Civil war, the fall of Centauri Prime, and the upcoming Telepath war. It's about how wars get started, what happens after a war, it's about the media, propaganda, racial and social predjudices, sacrifices, the building of an alliance, and how difficult it can be to create peace whilst simultaneously respecting individuals sovereign rights. It's about choices, and what those choices mean, and how the choices of a few can affect the choices of the many. Babylon-5 is a much more complicated programme than light vs. dark. And, unlike Jenna, Cally, Dayna, and Soolin, the female characters on B5 have been strong throughout the *entire* series. I assumed people on this list understood that. If this get's me *flamed*. Flame me. But understand something, B5 *is* a stronger program than B7. B7 may have influenced B5, but B5 is a better show. Part of it's the fact that technology has improved, so B5 has *real* special effects, but the other part of it is Terry Nation was working off of the seat of his pants in his writing of B7. He has stated himself that he didn't know what B7 was when he pitched it, and JMS had planned out B5 three years before he pitched it - the *entire* series - I just think a few of you are bothered by the fact that JMS has knocked Terry Nation out of the Guiness World book of records for total amount of consecutive television episodes written by one man in a series. Terry Nation (13) JMS (47) -- Elbert Girard Rudasill Multi-Media Consultant Classroom Technology Services Harnwell Hall (HRE) University of Pennsylvania (215) 898 - 9550 (215) 898 - 9505 egr@isc.upenn.edu egr@pobox.upenn.edu ****************************************************************************** "We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocations of equations. These are the tools we employ and we know many things." - Elric, The Geometry of Shadows ***************************************************************************** -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #27 *************************************