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blakes7-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 35

Today's Topics:
	 Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
	 Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
	 Re: [B7L] Manipulation
	 Re: b7spin: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant
	 Re: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
	 [B7L] I do not whis this any more
	 Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
	 Re: [B7L] I do not whis this any more
	 [B7L] fan scripts
	 [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs (U.S. Pres.)
	 [B7L] Timelash
	 Re: [B7L] Timelash
	 [B7L] Sevenfold crown
	 Re: [B7L] Manipulation
	 RE: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
	 RE: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
	 Re: [B7L] Manipulation
	 Re: [B7L] Manipulation
	 [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
	 Re: [B7L] fan scripts
	 [B7L] Doc Smith
	 Re: [B7L] Sevenfold crown

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:23:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980204100854.6207A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, DJ Wight wrote:

> Then, early Monday, Sue Clerc wrote:
> 
> > What's an INTJ, the one Avon probably isn't?
> 
> Back to references:  "Independent, individualistic, single-minded, 
> and determined individuals who trust their vision of possibilities 
> regardless of universal scepticism." Visionary builders, architects
> of systems, quoting again, "a clear vision of future possibilities and 
> the organization and drive to implement their ideas. ... INTJs see 
> things from a global perspective and quickly relate new
> information to overall patterns. They trust their insightful connections 
> regardless of established authority or popular opinions. Dull routine 
> smothers their creativity. ... They assess everything with a critical 
> eye and are tough and decisive when the situation calls for toughness
> ...clear and concise, rational, detached, and objectivly critical ...
> *excellent long-range planners and often rise to positions of 
> leadership in groups or organizations* (Asterisks mine.) ...INTJs 
> usually don't directly express their most valued and valuable part---
> their creative insights. Instead, they translate them into logical plans 
> and decisions. Because of this, others sometimes experience 
> INTJs as intractable, much to the surprise of the INTJ, who is 
> very willing to change an opinion when new evidence emerges. 
> They  present a calm, decisive, and assured face to the world, though
> they often find it difficult to engage in social conversation. Others
> usually see INTJs as private, reserved, hard to know, even aloof."
>  When frustrated, they tend to become aloof and abrupt, "not giving
> enough information about their internal processing, critical, 
> single-minded and unyielding." No mention in any of my 
> (admittedly limited) references, of any particular tendencies
> to cynicism, sarcasm, etc., or those emotional outbursts under 
> stress, which for me are what put Avon solidly in the INTP type.

Well, I've tested as INTJ and I can assure you from personal experience
that cynicism, sarcasm and emotional outbursts under stress can certainly
be associated with that character type. As for the leadership thing: I 
quite often find myself in a leadership role, usually when I don't want
to be. It's just that I'm good at making decisions. Not necessarily the
right decisions, oh no, but decisions none the less. Most people are quite
happy for someone else to do this, I find, so the person who decides most
quickly becomes a leader by default. This fits in very well with what
you've quoted above, and I think it's not such a bad description of Avon's
leadership.

It's interesting to note that most people on this list who've quoted their
type are NT or NF. Are these types

(a) More likely to be SF fans

(b) More likely to be on an internet mailing list

or

(c) More likely to take a psychometric test for the fun of it?

Iain

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 05:30:55 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980204052928.00d9fec4@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Iain Coleman wrote:

>It's interesting to note that most people on this list who've quoted 
>their type are NT or NF. Are these types
>
>(a) More likely to be SF fans
>
>(b) More likely to be on an internet mailing list
>
>or
>
>(c) More likely to take a psychometric test for the fun of it?

For the NTs, (b) and probably (a) -- don't know about (c). You will find
that NTs, especially INTs, are massively over-represented online in
comparison to their (quite small) presence in the general population,
because a large percentage of techie-types are INTs and they're the most
likely people to be online. And NT techies are pretty much the archetypal
science fiction fans, so they're likely to be even more over-represented on
SF e-lists.

Don't know about the NFs, except that it doesn't seem out of place for them
to be attracted to strongly character-driven fantasy or SF. 

--
	- Lisa
	  <lcw@dallas.net>
	  <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
	  Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:10:39 +0000
From: Richard Watts <Richard.Watts@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Manipulation
Message-Id: <E0y03f5-0002iK-00@canada.cl.cam.ac.uk>

On Tue 3 February 1998, Ovina Maria Feldman
<ofeldman@gte.net> wrote:

[snip]
> Blake managed to convince or cajole everyone, including Avon,
>into doing what he wanted regardless of dissenting opinions.

 Indeed: I think this is one of the more interesting bits of the
difference between Blake and Avon: Blake was manipulative, underhand,
and (by and large) kept everyone alive. Avon wasn't, let them do more
or less what they liked, and managed to get them all killed (not to
mention killing practically everyone else they met: at least Sarkoff
and Avalon met Blake and lived to tell the tale).

 Obviously it's not as simple as that, and an awful lot of the effect
arises from Blake's 7 obeying the laws of dramatic necessity, rather
than those of physics (for example, Avon could've safely saved Dr
Plaxton, since the entire crew couldn't be killed in the middle of a
series), but it's a much more generally interesting question: to what
extent is it justified to manipulate people to keep them alive ?
More interestingly, to what extent is it justified to manipulate
people in order to keep other people alive ?

 That comes up quite a lot in management and advertising, too,
of course...



Richard.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:30:59 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Jenni-Alison" <jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com>,
        "B7 Spin" <b7spin@metva.com.au>
Cc: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: b7spin: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant
Message-Id: <199802041242.MAA27400@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I agree with Tom. The writing in Mission Earth series was dire! I
> will read absolutely anything at all (I even read Barbara Cartlands
> later offerings, well, some of them - they are full of
> ....pregnant....pauses.....and more full stops (periods) than actual
> letters) but I couldn't read these. I struggled up to I think book 6,
> and gave in. I didn't care about any of the characters, I didn't find
> the plot clever or interesting, and I couldn't be bothered to try any
> longer on something which seemed to have no literary merit at all. I
> gave them back to my friend (thank god I didn't buy them).

I thought the first one was quite funny on the grounds that I didn't
realise that he wasn't *deliberately* writing this way as a send-up...

As for Doc Smith - I tried rereadng those a couple of years ago,
remembering how great they were when I was younger. And I discovered that
they're crap.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:28:47 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Judith Proctor" <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>,
        "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
Message-Id: <199802041242.MAA27395@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > Well done, Judith, that was a politer complaint about Barry Letts than
I
> > would have managed.
> 
> You didn't see the letter I wrote to Brian Lighthill...
> 
> I nearly flipped after reading his comment in the on-line chat that he
would use
> Barry Letts again if there was another radio play.  I did my best to be
polite,
> but I don't think I left any doubt as to my feelings about the script.  I
just
> hope that the letter finds him.  Addressing anything c/o BBC is bound to
stand a
> chance of getting lost in the system.

It's unlikely that Lighthill will get his wish, even if there is another
play (which is not likely) No-one else at the Beeb thought the script was
any good, and the general consensus seems to be that if by some miracle
there's another one, they should ask Chris Boucher.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:28:07 +0000
From: patrick lundmark <pattl@primenet.com>
To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] I do not whis this any more
Message-ID: <34D81887.57036F96@primenet.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A912C8383AE402888BA00FB8"

--------------A912C8383AE402888BA00FB8
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I do not whish this stupid mailing anymore. take pattl@primenet.com OFF
your stupid mailing list.
This is the 5th letter now and i am tierd of this stupid thing.

--------------A912C8383AE402888BA00FB8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<HTML>
<FONT FACE="Arial Black">I do not whish this stupid mailing anymore. take
pattl@primenet.com OFF your stupid mailing list.</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial Black">This is the 5th letter now and i am tierd
of this stupid thing.&nbsp;</FONT></HTML>

--------------A912C8383AE402888BA00FB8--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:29:01 -0500
From: DJ Wight <Angnak@compuserve.com>
To: B7Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-ID: <199802040931_MC2-31E3-570F@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Working sort-of backwards this time, through digest #34 --

Adam writes,

> Yes, those names are what Keirsey assigns for the four 
> temperaments. SP: artisan, SJ: guardian, NT: rational, 
> NF: idealist. I think that they are very fitting. 

Ahhh. Thank you.   

> But, this is to respond to Alison Page's question about fans 
> and Myers-Briggs. Yes, you are absolutely correct. Different 
> types see different things in what they read and what they like
> to watch on television. [snipping to condense]

I concur! With Alison's ideas, and your response. (Glad you got to 
this one first, Adam, you respond much more lucidly to the question, 
than I could have done.) I can validate the NT preferences for 'hard'
sf and non-fiction 100%, *and* our pack-rat tendencies. The difficulty
with ever giving up a book, once it's acquired, is that it feels like
giving
up part of one's brain.

> This great discussion is kind of difficult to sort through!

Checking out Sue's page accumulating it, it's a bit staggering how
much of it there's been in such a short time.

Moving on to your earlier message,

> I think Dayna is an *extremely* WEAK NF. She is the epitomy of 
> the SP. One classic example is in "Aftermath," when she 
> comments on the absurdity of developing all those weapons 
> and not using them. Any kind of an N, but especially an NF, 
> would understand that logic completely. An SP just thinks 
> they are being developed for pragmatic reasons - to use. 
> That's what SPs are all about - what can be done. What should 
> and shouldn't be done is left to the SJ. The NT and NF is interested
> in why and how.

This is very useful. Thinking about Dayna more, later, I've found 
myself inclining somewhat to Lisa's thought -- that where I see 
her falling out depends on which episode I've seen her in, most 
recently.

> Another important thing I should note is that it's not necessary to
> analyze each individual function of a character as long as you 
> determine the temperament.

This is most useful. I don't agree about Blake being a really strong 
F-type - wouldn't grant him more than a fairly weak bias, here - but
recognizing 
this as probably more a reflection of my personal experience with people 
who *are*, than any particularly detailed analysis of what he expresses, 
I'm open to further reflection about it.  To be deferred until my
just-ordered
copy of "Please Understand Me" gets here, and I've re-watched a few
episodes.

Then back to your next post, replying to Alison's question,

>> Is there a (relatively) reliable way to test one's own type?

> The only reliable way to discover your type, in my opinion, 
> is to understand the theory. Once a person understands the 
> theory, they'll be able to tell which of the sixteen types they are. 

I concur - whether you're working through MBTI references, its
roots in Jungian typology, or Kiersey's material. 

The simplified four-quadrants approach is a neat idea - hadn't 
heard of this one before - so okay, what's that one thing you think
is wrong with it? 

> Oh yes, and I do agree that a lot of very extroverted people 
> say that they are introverts. Apparently they think that being 
> introverted makes them more introspective, and thus more
> intelligent. 

Really? Ooo, the world has changed, since being introverted
vs. extraverted was last an issue in my life. Thing is, stepping 
back thirty years to my childhood, I remember getting the message 
every time I stepped outside the mostly introverted culture of 
the northern settlements where I grew up, that being introverted 
was at best Not A Good Thing. In that era, in the mostly 
extraverted south, being a warm, lively extravert was the ideal.

> Not so! And they also think it makes them unique
> because it is not as common as the E. Well, actually, I 
> believe that the MBTI literature is wrong about that too. Actually, 
> Type Resources is beginning to reverse that too. It is my 
> opinion that there are *more* introverts than extraverts. 

You could be right about that. Most of the sources I've seen
that've touched on distribution of types (none of which I own,
unfortunately, so I'm working from memory here) have quoted
a 75/25 split between extraverted and introverted types as the 
norm...but when the last organization I worked for did
mass MBTI testing on its employees as part of a leadership
training/change management program, we had a much more
even distribution. I can't help wondering if that higher proportion of 
extraverts reported as 'normal' in earlier times mightn't be the 
result of a lot of mildly introverted individuals having been so well 
(culturally) conditioned to present as counter-to-type, to throw 
off the results in favour of the then-prevailing fashion.

> Also, extraversion does not mean how much a person
> interacts with others. At least that's not it's MBTI meaning. 
> It just means that they get their energy from the external 
> world - other people. Most of them are more talkative than
> introverts, but not necessarily so. I'm an E and I have very
> few friends and I don't like to go where there are a lot of 
> people. I also know introverts that love to go to parties and 
> see other people. It all has to do with where they get their 
> energy.

I concur 100% here as well.

Moving back to picking up with Calle's note:

> Perhaps it would be fun to have a list personality type poll?

Could be interesting...

And Jenni adds,

>> Couldn't resist. Looked, did new test,

> Me too! I'm an ENTJ, according to the test. Can't be right 
>though, I've got all the charisma of a currant bun!

LOL!  I'll have to remember that line. Probably for the next time
I'm presenting at a seminar. That's the most glaring area where 
I run counter-to-type...a 9/10 introvert who enjoys public speaking.

--DJ
angnak@compuserve.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:52:36 +0100 (MET)
From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (mailing list)
Subject: Re: [B7L] I do not whis this any more
Message-Id: <199802041452.PAA05319@pampus.gns.getronics.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> 
> I do not whish this stupid mailing anymore. take pattl@primenet.com OFF
> your stupid mailing list.
> This is the 5th letter now and i am tierd of this stupid thing.
> 
> 

So why subscribe? And it's not stupid!! (unless stupid is cool in your ....)

Jeroen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:09:32 +0100 (MET)
From: Clive Oldfield <Clive.Oldfield@cern.ch>
To: me obviously <clive.oldfield@cern.ch>
cc: B7Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] fan scripts
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95a.980204170701.88222Q-100000@sp067>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Does anyone write, or know where i could find b7 stories in the script
format, as opposed to the story format that most fan literature seems
to be in.

cheers

clive

    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:27:12 -0800
From: "Adam L. Fuller" <adfuller@ix.netcom.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs (U.S. Pres.)
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980204092710.006911f0@POPD.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Yesterday I wrote in about presidents and their MB types. I just saw that
Keirsey's web page DOES have a section about it. Here are the ones that I
disagree with:

Richard Nixon: (Keirsey lists him as a guardian) A guardian! Come now!
That's *ridiculous*! I would say that Nixon was either an artisan or a
rational. Probably a rational.

Thomas Jefferson: (Keirsey lists him as a rational) That is possible, but I
don't think so. I think he was an artisan. The Declaration of Independence
is a very artisan document. Jefferson stood for freedom, life, liberty and
the pursuit of happiness more than anything else. Those are artisan ideals. 

Woodrow Wilson: (Keirsey lists him as a guardian) I don't think so. It's
possible, but still I think he might be an artisan.

Dwight Eisenhower: (Keirsey lists him as a rational) Very unlikely. He was
probably an artisan. Military leaders are usually artisan. (Military
enlisted men are usually guardian). George Patton was the epitomy of the
ESTP. I've seen the Travis character on B7 compared with Patton, which is
why I think Travis was an ESTP too.

Ronald Reagan: (Keirsey lists him as an artisan) Okay, this *might* be
right. But I'm always open to the possibility of Reagan being an ESTJ.

The more obscure presidents I don't know very much about, so I can't
comment on them. All the other more common ones, though, I *wholeheartedly*
agree with Keirsey's assessment!

-Adam.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:14:39 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Timelash
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0204101439-bbaRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

Timelash is now out on video, so all those who want to see Paul Darrow's
wonderful/godawful (depending on who you ask) performance in Dr Who, can now
rush out and buy it.

Judith
-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:08:08 +0000
From: Reuben <reuben@reuben.net>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Timelash
Message-ID: <34D86834.2B42@reuben.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Judith Proctor wrote:
> 
> Timelash is now out on video, so all those who want to see Paul Darrow's
> wonderful/godawful (depending on who you ask) performance in Dr Who, can now
> rush out and buy it.

Only in the UK, although rumor has it, Timelash is on the next US
release list.

Reuben
reuben@reuben.net
http://www.reuben.net/drwho/ 
http://www.reuben.net/blake/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:02:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Sevenfold crown
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0204130250-b07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

The BBC have apparantly sold over 170,000 copies of the audio tape, more than
have ever been sold for any other programme.

I guess that makes the odds of us getting another one look a little higher.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:55:13 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Manipulation
Message-ID: <19980204185513.50818@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Tue, Feb 03, 1998 at 10:04:02PM -0800, Ovina Maria Feldman wrote:
> It's interesting about Avon saying, "Don't try to manipulate me, Blake!"
> This is the kind of line that can have many readings. I took it
> (especially after I had seen several episodes of B7 and was then able to
> go back and re-watch this one) as "Don't (YOU BLAKE) try to manipulate
> me (I'M SO MUCH BETTER AT IT)." Who was more manipulative is open to
> debate. Blake managed to convince or cajole everyone, including Avon,
> into doing what he wanted regardless of dissenting opinions.

Hmmm, well, my interpretation of that line was don't-try-to-manipulate-me
(I'm so much smarter than the fools you've got following you I know
exactly what you're doing, so don't bother trying to hookwink me.)

-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen		<kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/      \    | 		http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/    | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
      v	    |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:51:10 -0000
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
Message-ID: <01BD31B7.59BEE1E0@host5-99-51-160.btinternet.com>

>It's unlikely that Lighthill will get his wish, even if there is another
>play (which is not likely) No-one else at the Beeb thought the script was
>any good, and the general consensus seems to be that if by some miracle
>there's another one, they should ask Chris Boucher.

Oh, yes please! This we must have! Why didn't the Beeb think of that in the frst place?

Louise

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:35:29 -0000
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
Message-ID: <01BD31BD.4BBD0260@host5-99-44-52.btinternet.com>

>It's unlikely that Lighthill will get his wish, even if there is another
>play (which is not likely) No-one else at the Beeb thought the script was
>any good, and the general consensus seems to be that if by some miracle
>there's another one, they should ask Chris Boucher.

Oh, yes please! This we must have! Why didn't the Beeb think of that in the frst place?

Louise

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:35:16 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Manipulation
Message-Id: <E0y0FKI-0002Kp-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Richard Watts wrote:
>  Obviously it's not as simple as that, and an awful lot of the effect
> arises from Blake's 7 obeying the laws of dramatic necessity, rather
> than those of physics (for example, Avon could've safely saved Dr
> Plaxton, since the entire crew couldn't be killed in the middle of a
> series)

Now _that's_ what I call a plot hole - well spotted. Avon should, indeed,
have known that they were still signed up for a few months more filming, so
they were indestructible. Well, almost - he'd bear Gan's example in mind,
and reason that at most _one_ of them could die. Now, Blake would have
considered those very good combat odds, and tried to save Plaxton. Avon, on
the other hand, would realise that that meant there was a slim chance _he_
could be killed. So Plaxton had to get it. Especially as he knew she wasn't
coming back next episode anyway, live or die.


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:36:50 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Manipulation
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980204224047.00ddf7cc@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tom Forsyth wrote:

>Avon, on the other hand, would realise that that meant there was a slim 
>chance _he_ could be killed. So Plaxton had to get it. Especially as he 
>knew she wasn't coming back next episode anyway, live or die.

Yes, understanding that guest stars and bit players are essentially
expendable is a vital command skill. Rather like Kirk always knowing
exactly how many redshirts to take down to a planet so they could get
killed off to illustrate the local dangers without losing any of the regulars.

--
	- Lisa
	  <lcw@dallas.net>
	  <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
	  Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:54:59 -0800
From: "Adam L. Fuller" <adfuller@ix.netcom.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980204225456.0068ce70@POPD.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

DJ Wight said:

>This is most useful. I don't agree about Blake being a really strong
F-type - wouldn't grant him more than a >fairly weak bias, here - but
recognizing this as probably more a reflection of my personal experience
with >people who *are*, than any >particularly detailed analysis of what he
expresses, I'm open to further reflection >about it. To be deferred until
my just-ordered copy of "Please Understand Me" gets here, and I've
re-watched a >few episodes.

Since I get the digest version of this list, I don't get to read the
responses until the next morning. Sue's web page is what is keeping me up
to date! Anyway, I think Blake is a *very* strong F and a very weak T. You
know, there's an awful stereotype about the F function. Most people think
of a touchy-feely, lovey-dovey person who is constantly interested in
people's feelings and inner emotions. Although Fs will have an element of
that, and certain Fs have it to a greater degree, the F fuction is all
about making decisions based on values, or what is in the heart. Ts base
their decisions on thought and reason. Blake's goals and desires were based
on values or ideals. One of his lines was *classic* NF, in "Star One," he
said to Avon, "for whatever it's worth, I've always trusted you." This was
a very NF statement to Avon. He wasn't just talking - he was very sincere.
What other type would say something like that to a man like Avon and be
that sincere? After everything that's happened, after everything that
they've said to one another, Blake still trusted him. Another important
observation was the one that Avon made in "Killer," when he told Vila that
Blake is bleeding heart who will get himself killed one day trying to help
people. Blake didn't do it for the thrill or excitement of it. He was very
sincere and always was about helping people in trouble. Blake also needed a
lot of time to think, like in "Trial." Time to think is a very N need. It
is especially NF that he had to do some philosphical reassessment of his
motives and plans. His message to the other characters had a very F sense
to it. He was pouring out his heart to them. You know, Blake and Avon may
have had their disagreements (which came from the NF/NT conflict), but in
some ways, because they were both Ns, they both clicked like no other two
characters did. In "Trial," they were both fascinated by Zil because she
was a "philosophical flea." Zil sparked their intuitive interest - but for
different reasons. It just seemed like the others in the crew were
completely disinterested. Anyway, my point is that I find Blake to be a
very strong F. He philosophized and made value judgments over *everything.*

-Adam :L. Fuller (ENTJ)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:14:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] fan scripts
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0204181426-0e8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

On Wed 04 Feb, Clive Oldfield wrote:
> 
> Does anyone write, or know where i could find b7 stories in the script
> format, as opposed to the story format that most fan literature seems
> to be in.

The old 'Orbit' zines had a story spread over many issues that was written as a
script.  Personally, I didn't like it at all.  That's the only one that
instantly comes to mind, though I have seen them on other rare occasions.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:21:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Doc Smith
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0204182109-256Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

On Wed 04 Feb, Dangermouse wrote:

> As for Doc Smith - I tried rereadng those a couple of years ago,
> remembering how great they were when I was younger. And I discovered that
> they're crap.

That happened to me.  I went to great effort to get the one I was missing in the
series, sat down to re-read them all again, and discovered that they were
totally boring and the characters were one-dimensional.  I couldn't manage more
than a couple of chapters.

The books hadn't changed, so I guess I must have.

I like my characters with more depth now and want more subtlety in my good and
evil.  I guess that's why I became a Blake's 7 fan (or one of the reasons), so
few of the characters are totally black or white.  Blake and Avon have their
flaws ad their darker sides, but the series also dared to show us that Servalan
had a human side.  'Children of Auron' and'Sand' helped to make Servalan a
character that I could sometimes relate to and one that I was interested in
exploring more deeply.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:18:41 GMT
From: "Jane Elizabeth  Macdonald" <J.E.Macdonald1@student.derby.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold crown
Message-ID: <2EC22836E1E@sdk1.derby.ac.uk>

> Date:          Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:02:50 +0000 (GMT)
> From:          Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
> To:            Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject:       [B7L] Sevenfold crown

> The BBC have apparantly sold over 170,000 copies of the audio tape, more than
> have ever been sold for any other programme.
> 
> I guess that makes the odds of us getting another one look a little higher.
> 
> Judith
> 
Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this tape?

Cylan

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End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #35
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