From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #46 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/46 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 46 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] authors Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? [B7L] Tarrant [B7L] Tripitaka and Monkey Re: [B7L] Tarrant [B7L] Avon and Vila [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers [B7L] Blythe Spirits [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant Re: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish? [B7L] On My Mind Re: [B7L] On My Mind Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:13:00 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: In message , AChevron@aol.com writes >In a message dated 98-02-10 22:49:23 EST, you write: > ><< He'd > tell the people he was with that he'd sent the others into a trap, > knowing he could get them out, but not wanting to argue about sending > them in. >> > > Actually, I've always thought that Avon usually had several reasons for >almost every action/descision he made, and usually let the others choose what >his reason was. Even with Servalan in Terminal. when she supposes that it is >his interest in the hints of wealth that brought him running. In fact she doesn't. She's crafted a superb trap just for Avon and his little foibles - the hint of Blake to bring him running, the hint of wealth to give a nice, self-centred reason that he can tell himself and others was his real motive. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:23:37 -0800 From: "J. I. Horner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] authors Message-ID: <34E4B9D9.B9E@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jane Elizabeth Macdonald wrote: > > Alex said > > As to Lord of The Rings, the first time I read it, I got almost to the end > > of the end of the last book. Frodo, Sam, and Gollum, with Precious tempting > > Sam, maybe thirty pages to the end, and I had to put it aside (school work, > > I was in my last semester as an undergraduate). When I got back to it, I > > had completely lost the thread of the story. I finally got around to > > rereading it about four months ago. Thank God I will never have to read it > > again. I don't think one should have to learn a whole new set of languages in order > > to follow a story, as one is forced to with Lord of the Rings. > > How can you say such a thing? Lord of the Rings is one of the best > books I have ever read. I couldn't put it down. > > Cylan I put it down - and couldn't bring myself to pick it up again Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:17:07 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <7d3b3591.34e455e5@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-13 06:58:55 EST, Julia wrote: << She's crafted a superb trap just for Avon and his little foibles - the hint of Blake to bring him running, the hint of wealth to give a nice, self-centred reason that he can tell himself and others was his real motive. >> The reason I think Servalan thought is was the money that ultimately brought Avon running is the wonderful confrontation the two have. She asks Avon if it was the money that brought him, and he laughs(ahh so delightfully) and says no. I've always read the scene as Avon amused at answering truthfully, knowing that Servalan doesn't believe his answer. One of the best scenes in the entire series, IMHO. Deborah Rose "What do you mean it's six more weeks until Deliverance?!!!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:32:01 +1100 From: Fran Myers To: B7 Subject: [B7L] Tarrant Message-ID: <34E45961.6A90@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicole sez: I do not believe we ever see Tarrant as 'selfish'. I agree. Thoughtless, bossy, cruel, insensitive, gung-ho, impractical, insufferable, arrogant, but never selfish. He really thinks he knows what is best for the whole group. Tarrant is unusual,> in that he actually *wants* to be a part of a team. I'd say he wants to be the leader of a team rather than part of it. There's nothing unusual about wanting to be part of a team. Most people do (or are blackmailed into it, as any civil servant or schoolteacher knows!) Our B7 guys don't want to be a team, except when their lives depend on it. They are individuals, not followers. That's why they are so interesting. And I am stunned to hear anyone suggest that Avon has morals! Fran M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:32:19 +1100 From: Fran Myers To: B7 Subject: [B7L] Tripitaka and Monkey Message-ID: <34E45973.E77@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heather asks: Does anybody know quite *why* a woman was used to play the part? Possibly because when you achieve perfection in Buddhism you are above being male or female? In the end of the tv series (which I must admit, I loved - dopey Sandy was my favourite) Buddha is shown in his female aspect. Nicola sez: > A friend related some of the story, as he remembers it, to me - Monkey> stole something from the gods that made him immortal, and to punish him> they put a mountain on top of him. After many centuries it wore away and> Monkey was free, then the adventures with Tripitaka, et al. start. Is this> right? I think he was released from the mountain in order to accompany Tripitaka - if he behaved, he would be allowed to remain free. The gods gave Tripi the power to punish him (in the series, through his headband) when necessary. Fran M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:39:12 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: "B7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Message-Id: <199802131741.LAA16015@pemberton.magnolia.net> Fran said: >I agree. Thoughtless, bossy, cruel, insensitive, gung-ho, impractical, >insufferable, arrogant, but never selfish. He really thinks he knows >what is best for the whole group. Gee, then I guess Tarrant is a *lot* more like Blake and Avon than I'd originally thought! (With Avon, though, one needs to delete "gung-ho" and add "selfish.") Maybe they're all related... Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:11:32 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: <52f2ef02.34e48cd7@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit All the great postings about Tarrant, heroism, and Avon got me thinking back on my favorite pair, Avon/Vila. Since I don't have time to sit and write up a "proper" piece on the subject, I thought I'd throw out a few ideas and see if anyone bites, expands, enhances the subject. The first thing that strikes me about the two is the first scene that we meet Avon. Avon is working hard to maintain an aloof bearing, and Vila jumps in with a rather biting little insult. What's strange to me is Avon's reaction. Or lack of one. And why Vila felt safe in cracking on Avon in the first place. Not what I'd expect of a "mouse" type character. Not a good idea to attract the kittycat's attention, after all. The only answer I can see to this is that the two have met prior to the events of Spacefall and have established sort of relationship(no, not that type). Plenty of fanfic has addressed this, of course, some of it very good. I can see Vila snooping out information on the Alpha prisoner in the cells, of course. And Avon would have been a bit vulnerable to a sympathetic body during this time. Anna gone, his plans failed, doomed to a life on a barren rock. And Vila has something to gain out of it too. An Alpha with Avon's unique skills could be useful to someone who likes breaking out of places... Of course, a few months on the London seems to have affectted Avon's attitudes. His "five followers and HIM.." comment make it clear that Vila doesn't rate highly with him at the time. Why, besides the tendancy of close confinement for an extended time, would Avon's attitude toward Vila change? My own take is that Vila has not delivered up to this point. To survive the London, Vila is busy playing the fool to the other prisoners. there is no opportunity for Vila to display his own considerable talents. I can imagine Avon wondering as time goes on why he ever thought Vila was worth talking to(and Vila occasionally making some remark forcing Avon to re-evaluate his re-evaluation). then comes the Liberator, freedom, and a chance for all the crew to prove their skills to the others. I'll leave this to another posting, assuming anyone is interested in my natterings. Any comments on anyone else's take on this subject? D. Rose "OK, so the curly-haired twit has SOME redeeming features. I'm STILL not joining the Tarrant Nostra....." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:15:36 -0600 (CST) From: "G. Robbins" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sounds like one heck of an idea if I ever saw one! I'd like to contribute my story, "Building A Mystery" if that's okay. It's not finished yet, but I hope to remedy that on Saturday. It may not be a masterpeice, but I love it in my own respect. Of course-even though combining the two loves (genres) of my life, science fiction (Blake's 7 primarily, of course--because it has Avon) and romance, can leave a bitter taste in the mouths of either enthusiast-I have to do it!! So if you want a novice (oh my gosh, and I'm even an English writing major!) story, you can source it at http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins/avnstrI.html Grace Robbins robbins@inet-ux.graceland.edu http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins ---------------------------- I have a few ideas. Together with yours, we may have something. -Max DePree I like people who refuse to speak until they are ready to speak. -Lillian Hellman Trust is, if anything, as important as the ozone layer for our survival. -Sissela Bok ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:35:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Blythe Spirits Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Does anyone out there have a copy of Blythe Sprits? I really really want to read it - I'd settle for a photocopy. (For those who don't know, it's a story or collectipn of stories that Gareth Thomas wrote about a group of medieval monks. Joe Nazzaro published them) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: 13 Feb 1998 13:25:15 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: >Avona wrote: >Sorry, I was insulted by one person who said she would ignore all my >mail since she thought I was pompous, or something like that. Maybe I am >a little, and I'm sorry for that, too. Find that on your email first >thing in the morning and see if it doesn't make you a little grouchy. My advice Avona is...take it in stride and ignore it. When I first joined the list a year ago, I sent a gushing ;) message to lysator expounding on my enthusiasm and excitement at discovering this fandom, and having other people to share my love of B7 and AVON! with. The next morning I received a message from "someone" (who made it clear they are not an Avon fan) calling me "insipid", among other things. My feelings were terribly hurt. But I realized if I wanted to remain on the list I would simply have to develop "thicker skin"--so I did. And I'm glad I did, because there *are* only a few members on lysator who don't seem able to discuss the show without personal attacks on those who don't agree with them. The majority of list members are wonderful, generous, sharing, *opinionated*, fun people who I enjoy chatting and disagreeing with (sometimes, strongly disagreeing, but that's part of the fun) -- and I consider myself lucky to have met the folks on this list and to be a part of this fandom. My enthusiasm and excitement for B7 and my overwhelming lust for Avon has not waned one bit over the last year, if anything it's increased. So, I continue to enjoy the list; and I continue to ignore the opinions of *that* particular list member. I hope you've decided to do the same. BTW, I never found your posts to be pompous. I enjoyed them. Carol K (an AVON fan) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:33:20 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: In message <7d3b3591.34e455e5@aol.com>, AChevron@aol.com writes >In a message dated 98-02-13 06:58:55 EST, Julia wrote: > ><< She's crafted a superb trap just for Avon and his > little foibles - the hint of Blake to bring him running, the hint of > wealth to give a nice, self-centred reason that he can tell himself and > others was his real motive. >> > > The reason I think Servalan thought is was the money that ultimately >brought Avon running is the wonderful confrontation the two have. She asks >Avon if it was the money that brought him, and he laughs(ahh so delightfully) >and says no. I've always read the scene as Avon amused at answering >truthfully, knowing that Servalan doesn't believe his answer. One of the best >scenes in the entire series, IMHO. It's the scene where she tells him that Blake's dead that's the killer. SERVALAN: Blake is dead. He died from his wounds on the planet Jevron more than a year ago. I saw his body. I saw it cremated. Blake is dead. AVON: I saw him. I spoke to him and he-- SERVALAN: You saw nothing. Heard nothing. It was an illusion, a drug- induced and electronic dream. We spent months preparing it. We recreated Blake inside our computers, voice, images, memories, a million fragmented facts. When I was ready, I started sending you the messages, seeding the idea in your mind. I was conditioning you. And you were my greatest ally, Avon. You made it easy because you wanted to believe it. You wanted to believe that Blake was still alive. [Avon starts for her.] TARRANT: Let it go, Avon. The look on Avon's face in this scene is something to behold. Blake was the real bait all along. > >"What do you mean it's six more weeks until Deliverance?!!!" > Now, now, calm yourself. I don't want you having a funny turn in the next six weeks, I can't afford to pay the room bill by myself :-) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:37:55 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Message-ID: In message <34E45961.6A90@ozemail.com.au>, Fran Myers writes > >And I am stunned to hear anyone suggest that Avon has morals! > Try the "wading in blood" speech in Star One (she says, waving a red rag in front of Sue :-) Also the general reluctance to take advantage of young, innocent females who think he's a god, beautiful, etc. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:04:13 -0500 From: Susan Beth To: blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980213190413.006d64a4@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" DCsquared@aol.com wrote: >I am taking a class in web page design, and our assignment is to create a >personal web page. Of course I must devote it to B7. My challenge was to >find an area that hasn't already been covered so brilliantly by some of you. >I have decided that it should cater to novice B7 fanfiction writers like >myself. That reminds me, I'm not sure if Vickie McManus' wonderful site for B7 fanfic writers has been mentioned over here on Lysator. (It had its inception on the Space City list, but it offers useful information for writers of gen as well as smut.) Some of the items she has: -"bios" for each of the major characters, as in, everything established about them throughout the series. -essays on the theory and practice of fanfic as romance literature -"orphan ideas" -- ideas for stories that the deviser doesn't think she'll ever write. -links to sites full of "general" advice to writers, things to do and not do to make your stories good. -contact addresses for zines seeking submissions -names of people willing to help new writers, as beta readers or as copyeditors. -useful "lists" like names of planets names of drugs who touched who, when and why shakespearean references Oh, just tons of great stuff, too much for me to list or remember. Anyway, if you have any interest at all in writing B7, you should at least stop by, and will probably want to bookmark it: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/4667 Susan Beth (sbs@world.std.com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:21:53 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: AChevron@aol.com CC: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: <34E50DD1.5A9D@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far. Each expects it of the other. I think _anyone_ who's had a sibling understands that aspect of the relationship. The older sibling is usually dominant and lords it over the younger, who takes advatage of the very vulnerability in the other's eyes to take liberties. Of course they aren't brothers, but friends can have that same sort of relationship, where one is much the stronger. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:28:41 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: "Kinkade.Carol" CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <34E50F6A.306F@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all those who've responded so kindly when I explained about the nasty note. On the other hand, I saw a quote or two from my first mailings and realize I was writing without thinking (which Avon would certainly not have approved of). I actually haven't reviewed my tapes for over a year and tried to get out my first few mailings fast, because I was being overwhelmed by mail. So I made some innaccurate comments simply due to poor word choice and too-vague memory. I can understand how people would want to correct me. By the way, personally I admire and emulate Avon's brain, Cally's compassion, and Servalan's fashion sense. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:36:52 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Message-ID: <34E51155.1785@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >And I am stunned to hear anyone suggest that Avon has morals! > Try the "wading in blood" speech in Star One (she says, waving a red rag in front of Sue :-) Also the general reluctance to take advantage of young, innocent females who think he's a god, beautiful, etc. -- Julia Jones Add to that-- Rescueing the others in Horizon, after _proving_ he has no practical need for them. Taking the old man back with him in "Assassin" (yes, the guy reminded him he'd promised, but that wouldn't have kept a Travis or Servalan from breaking word). Those are just some non-controversial ones. In a number of situations, we are left to decide whether Avon was motivated more for moral or other reasons. Remember, in the words of Blake, "For what it is worth, I have always trusted you." ------------------------------ Date: 13 Feb 1998 19:26:02 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish? Message-ID: >Carol McCoy wrote: >Traitor: Stays on Heloit, against Avon's orders, to help Hunda and company. I always liked this episode *only* for this bit of interaction... Yes, Tarrant stayed on Heloit to help Hunda, but in so doing he put Scorpio at risk because fed ships were on the way and Scorpio needed to get out of there. In fairness to Tarrant, he didn't know the feds were on the way. Nevertheless, Avon was watching the feds close in, he had Vila whining at him to get out of there (and leave Tarrant and Dayna behind), he couldn't raise T or D on the communicators (and he knew they were deliberately not answering)...yet he refused to leave. He wouldn't leave them behind, and, despite all his threats to Tarrant, I believe Tarrant knew he wouldn't leave them. >Rob wrote: >As it was, Avon brought out the worst aspects of his (Tarrant's) personality, >and it is much easier to dislike him for that than it is to recognise the >contributions he made to the crew. I strongly disagree with this. In fourth season Avon and Tarrant reached an agreement/compromise and began to work well together and trust each other. Rather than Avon bringing out the worst in Tarrant, they began to bring out the best in each other. The scene above from "Traitor" was my first evidence that their relationship was maturing. Third season Tarrant would never have trusted Avon not to leave them. Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: 13 Feb 1998 20:47:22 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] On My Mind Message-ID: >"someone" wrote: (I've lost the original message I don't know who sent this) >Tarrant looks up to Blake by reputation I never saw any evidence of this anywhere in the series. And Tarrant didn't seem particularly impressed with him in "Blake" -- I think the 4th season crew would still have been more loyal to Avon than Blake. I certainly don't think Dayna would adopt him as a new "father image" as someone else suggested. (sorry again, I've lost the original message, I don't know who said it.) I'm fascinated by the prospect of Blake hooking up with the fourth season crew and I've been racking my brain trying to put into words what I believe the reactions of the crew would be, when I received a reply from Carol McCoy in response to an earlier discussion on this very subject. I so completely agree with what she said, and she has said it so much better than I could have that I decided to share *her* reponse with the list. ***** from Carol Mc: There was no indication that Tarrant respected or admired Blake. To me, Tarrant's relationship with Blake would hinge on Avon. Tarrant was loyal to Avon; he would support Avon in helping Blake or finding Blake. But it's not something he'd actively seek out on his own. Here's my take on Blake melding with the fourth season crew. If "Blake" hadn't happened and circumstances were more congenial, the Scorpio crew would have been wary of Blake but would have been willing to give him a chance out of loyalty to Avon. They certainly wouldn't desert Avon for Blake. Not even if Avon tried to push them in that direction (as he tried to push the third season crew out of his life a couple of times). If "Blake" had happened, the possibility of melding the teams would be much more difficult. Even if Blake and Avon both still wanted to join together at that point. The Scorpio crew didn't blindly follow Avon. And they've not had a very good first impression of Blake in "Blake." He's let a spy onto his base. He's misjudged the situation with Tarrant, which ended up with his people (Klyn and the white-jacketed technician) getting shot (possibly killed?). He is not exactly competence personified. The Scorpio crew would probably still give him a chance, out of loyalty to Avon, if Avon asked. But it would be a long, long time before they'd come to trust and/or admire Blake. With Vila being the possible exception who might cotton to Blake more quickly. It would depend on how soon/how often Blake put Vila's life in danger and whether Vila deemed that Blake or Avon (who tried to jetison him in Orbit) was the greater evil. Vila was still miffed with Avon in "Blake." Mind you, I think if Vila thought about "Warlord" he'd realize Avon felt guilt, regret and wouldn't do it again, but Vila would have to think that out on his own. Avon isn't going to spell it out for him. If Avon decided not to be with Blake, his crew would stick with him. I think even Vila. Because even if he's miffed with Avon, Vila has three other friends with that group. He'd play the numbers. Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) BTW, I posted this with Carol Mc permission. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:24:55 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: "Kinkade.Carol" CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind Message-ID: <34E52AA8.106E@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, I like the way Carol Kinkade thinks, even if I do disagree a little on this. You may be right C.K, they are individualists, the 4th season crew. But Dayna's dad was a Blake fan, and he may have shared his way of thinking with her. And Tarrant did come to the Liberator thinking he'd find Blake on board to join his crew, if I remember that episode correctly. He'd done enough research on the crew to know Chevron had to be Avon. Soolin, I haven't got a clue how she thinks. When I said they'd accept Blake, I believe it was in answer to a three part "what-if" that include "Blake" being a bad dream. So they haven't seen Blake's poor performance as a leader in that. And they wouldn't jettison Avon; on the other hand, they weren't winning in the 4th season, and if Avon thought Blake could do a better job, I think they'd trust his judgement. _Avon_ says this guy can do better? I'd rather be in Avon's crew than Blake's. His sense of honor drives him to be very careful with lives, more so than an idealist would be. (Not that Blake didn't care about his crew, but he cared about ending the Federation more) Have I worded this okay? Avon RULES! Blake MANIPULATES A VOTE IN HIS FAVOR! Tarrant GOES OFF HALF-COCKED AND ALMOST GETS KILLED BUT SAVES THE DAY! Vila STEALS! Oh, dear. I'm LOSING IT! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:22:17 +1100 (EST) From: Gordon Burgess & Carol Mason To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-Id: <199802140522.QAA05097@magna.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 07:21 PM 2/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also >feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far. >Each expects it of the other. I think _anyone_ who's had a sibling >understands that aspect of the relationship. The older sibling is >usually dominant and lords it over the younger, who takes advatage of >the very vulnerability in the other's eyes to take liberties. Of course >they aren't brothers, but friends can have that same sort of >relationship, where one is much the stronger. I wouldn't necessarily say Avon was the stronger of the two. Strength comes in many forms and for Vila to have survived so long within the criminal elements he to, has great strength. Vila simply utalises his strength in a different way. He prefers to let Avon take things head on whilst he watches, and waits and learns. When he is ready to make his move he is usually so circumspect about his actions that most people are not even aware of what he has done , therefore, most people are not aware of just what, exactly , Vila is capable of. They just see the cringing coward the Liberator's clown. But, a few times his true colours have come shining through, for eg, the way he took control when he though Keiler had betrayed Avon and Soolin and sent them to their deaths in Gold. But I do agree with your analysis of their brotherly like relationship and the way they play well off one another. Catch You Later, Carol. Semper Fidelis Carol "Hondo" Mason < gcb7@magna.com.au > ******************************************************************* * "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity" * * "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film" * * "Friends may come and go, but enemies tend to accumlate" * * "If you can't convince them, confuse them" * * "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk" * ******************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:02:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Rob wrote: > >As it was, Avon brought out the worst aspects of his (Tarrant's) personality, > >and it is much easier to dislike him for that than it is to recognise the > >contributions he made to the crew. > > I strongly disagree with this. In fourth season Avon and Tarrant reached an > agreement/compromise and began to work well together and trust each > other. Rather than Avon bringing out the worst in Tarrant, they began to bring > out the best in each other. The scene above from "Traitor" was my first > evidence that their relationship was maturing. Third season Tarrant would never > have trusted Avon not to leave them. What I've been saying is based on third season material. From what everyone else has been saying, the relationships change a lot in the fourth season -- should be interesting. They're showing "Terminal" on UK Gold tomorrow, then next week they're diving straight into "Rescue". You lot have whetted my appetite. OK -- I'm unsubbing now. It's a bit naughty to use my work account to access this list, but I couldn't resist it for just a few days. It's been good fun, anyway. Catch you chaps later, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:53:40 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <5602ec60.34e585c6@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-13 16:40:23 EST Julia wrote: << The look on Avon's face in this scene is something to behold. Blake was the real bait all along. >> Yes! The contrast of his open laugh and then this scene makes the whole sequence that much more powerful. I don 't know that I agree that Servalan intended Blake as the primary bait even with this though; she's twisting a metaphorical knife in Avon's gut, all right, but playing more on Avon's gullibility rather than his love/obssession/longing for Blake. The LOOK just lets the viewer know how important Blake really is to Avon. I will stay calm. I will stay calm. Actually, I've got enough things to keep me busy for the next few weeks, that my insanity might actually survive the wait... Deborah Rose ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:20:47 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: In message <34E50DD1.5A9D@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker writes >Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also >feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far. > >Each expects it of the other. I think _anyone_ who's had a sibling >understands that aspect of the relationship. The older sibling is >usually dominant and lords it over the younger, who takes advatage of >the very vulnerability in the other's eyes to take liberties. Of course >they aren't brothers, but friends can have that same sort of >relationship, where one is much the stronger. > Ther's an age gap of several years between the actors, so it's perfectly legitimate to assume there's one between the characters. That adds to the "big brother/little brother" aspect of the relationship. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #46 *************************************