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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 48
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Re: [B7L] Safety
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Safety
Re: [B7L] On My Mind
[B7L] Straight Blakes
Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Re: [B7L] Safety
RE: [B7L] Cross-overs
Re: [B7L] UK Gold
[B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day
[B7L] Spin off Mailing Lists
Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
[B7L] re: Avon on Terminal
Re: [B7L] Safety
RE: [B7L] Re: Safety
Re: [B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day
Re: [B7L] UK Gold
RE: [B7L] Cross-overs
[B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] On My Mind
[B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish
Re: [B7L] Safety
Re: [B7L] Safety
[B7L] Page 29/Double takes
Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish
[B7L] Avon Morals
Re: [B7L] Safety
[B7L] Assorted comments
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:42:37 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: pussnboots@geocities.com
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Message-ID: <34E71AFD.B65@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> > Plot idea> Avon leaves the crew once he can get a ship of his own. Blake
> > is angry, feels that Avon is abandoning the dream. Avon is really going
> > on a solo mission that he isn't telling anyon about. He has developed an
> > incredible hatred for Servalan, and now that he doesn't have to worry
> > about the others, he inteneds to get revenge for all she's done.
>
> But Servalan turns the tables and has him one up. And then Blake has to
> come rescue him. And then slap him about a bit for his uninclusive
> foolishness. oh please? ;)
I don't know, Pat. Okay, Avon gets in too deep; Servalan's probably
expecting him, but I'd prefer to make up for my previous scorning of
Tarrant by having him be the one to say, "He's not running out. Avon
doesn't run; he doesn't back down. He's been losing against the
Federation--"
Soolin interrupts> "Against _Servalan_"
Tarrant"-- and then you show up and he feels like a spare part, an
excess leader."
Dayna>"Not excess, surely?"
Blake>"You heard him. He's through. I don't like it any more than you,
but he makes up his own mind. He always has. If I _said_ anything to try
to hold him back, it would only make him angry, feel manipulated."
Vila>"You have a point. There's no way to stop him.We've all seen that."
Tarrant> The point is, he hasn't given up the fight. He's just taking it
solo."
Dayna> "Like his revenge for Anna or the time we lost the Liberator."
Tarrant> (explaining for Blake) "He has a tendancy to try and force us
away from his most dangerous plans."
Blake>"I know. I know how Avon works, believe me. He's going to try to
hunt Servalan down. He'll just be chopping off the head of a hydra, but
that won't stop him from trying. Any suggestions as to _when_ and
_where_? Federation territory is very big."
Vila>"I knew you'd be getting to that. Lucky I dropped a tracer in his
pocket when I said goodbye." (satisfied smile as the rest of the crew
dtarts in surprize).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:40:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980215163236.15162A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also
> feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far.
I see it slightly differently. Avon puts Vila down, of course, but Vila
gives as good as he gets - sometimes better - and Avon respects that. It's
kind of a sparring relationship. Contrast this with Avon's attitude to
Gan: Avon regards Gan as stupid, dull and slow, and treats him with
undisguised contempt. Even when the poor guy's snuffed it Avon's still
slagging him off. Gan isn't able to counterattack Avon [1], so Avon
dismisses him. Look at "Horizon": Vila is expendable, but Gan is stupid.
Iain
[1] The one exception being Gan's lovely "For a clever man you're not very
bright".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:45:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980215164131.15162B-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Carol A. McCoy wrote:
>
> As for Iain, the more he reveals the more glad I am to have an
> ocean between us. ;-)
For some reason, this comment made me think of "The Full Monty".
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:45:47 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <19980215.084224.18311.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
lain wrote:
>Hmmm. I reckon I have Travis's charm, Servalan's tolerance and Vila's
sobriety.
That's OK, as long as you keep your beard.
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:05:49 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <34E7206D.2158@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Iain Coleman wrote:
>
> Helen wrote:
> >
> >
> > By the way, personally I admire and emulate Avon's brain, Cally's
> > compassion, and Servalan's fashion sense.
> >
>
> Hmmm. I reckon I have Travis's charm, Servalan's tolerance and Vila's sobriety.
>
> Iain
_NOW_ we're worried, Iain. Very worried.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:52:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0215085240-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Sat 14 Feb, Carol A. McCoy wrote:
>
>
> Judith wrote about Avon:
>
> )(In a nutshell, he only ever really stuck his neck out for Blake)
>
> Say what? Now most of us know I'm first and second season deficient,
> but I'm suspecting Avon risked his neck for shipmates other than
> Blake during those eps. I can site some examples of his sticking
> his neck out in third-fourth season:
I was tired and on edge waiting for Richard who was several hours late after
delays at the airport. Definately not thinking at my best. I wouldn't buy all
of your examples as some of them don't constitute major risk to Avon's own neck,
but there's certainly several that I'd accept.
I'd also add Jenna in Deliverance as he risked additional radiation exposure
when going back to seek for her. Omitting Anna can only be excused by
extreme tiredness on my part.
My neck's still too sore to elaborate in detail on the way I see some of the
episodes, but many of the times he took a personal risk was because he also
stood to benefit (eg. he too was in danger in Assassin).
However, I think many of us would agree that Avon had an internal double
standard. If asked, he would have claimed to risk his neck for nobody except
himself (and Anna). In actuality, in situations like 'Horizon' he was sometimes
glad of an excuse to do the 'right thing'.
I've always believed that Liberator's energy banks were low in Horizon. If
memory serves, they'd come there after being chased a long way. If the energy
banks were at full, he could have outrun the pursuit ships.
He laughs when told of the pursuit ships, and that laugh at fate is so very
Avon.
Do we ever see Avon laugh or give a large smile at any other time than when
things are at their absolute worst? eg. Horizon (when he has to go to the
rescue), Gold (when the money is useless), Terminal (the end), Blake (the end).
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:33:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0215083304-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Sat 14 Feb, Pat Patera wrote:
> Helen Krummenacker wrote:
>
> >... Tarrant looks up to Blake by
> > reputation, so his Alpha male reactions will calm down in the presence
> > of this Silverback of rebellion.
> LOL! We have the Disgustingly Slavering Avon Fans, the Tarrant Nostra
> and ... what is the Blake's bunch called? With Judith keeping us updated
> on how marvy Gareth looks now gone grey: How about Silverbacks?
Well, that would fit in with my personal nickname for us <laugh>. If Gareth is
the silverback, then we have to be Gareth's Gorillas.
I always distinguish between Blake fans and Gareth fans as the two are not
necessarily the same. The first four Gareth fans who come to my mind constitute
three Avon fans and a Vila fan.
Blake comes second or third in my own list of preference, after Avon and
possibly Servalan.
I adore Gareth as Gareth rather than for any connection with Blake. I've seen
him in enough things to appreciate his enormous range as an actor, and the man
himself is amazingly likeable and unfailingly generous of himself with fans.
(and always pays his own bar bill at conventions. If Gareth buys you a drink,
he's paying for it, not the convention committee)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:19:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Straight Blakes
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0215081915-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
Linda Knights will have the first two issues of Straight Blakes back in print in
a few days. I know several people have been asking me if I could get hold of
these.
My husband's back from the US now (with a large box of zines), but Julia is
going over shortly and has offered to carry more.
So. If you want Straight Blakes at the US price rather than the UK price (ie.
without the airmail postage cost), then let me know within the next week and
I'll have them for Deliverance. (If you can't collect at Delivernace, then you
wouldn't save much on the cost as I'll have to post it again.)
Straight Blakes is the zine edited by Pat Jacquerie that contains only
heterosexual fiction and is thus beloved by many who aren't really slash fans
but still enjoy adult fiction.
I don't know the exact price yet, but I'd expect it to be on a par with other
zines of the same size.
Straight Blakes 1 which I read recently is almost poetic in its style. It's a
zine that has an almost unique style and some excellent writing. Definately one
for those who want gentle considerate love rather than rape and violence.
THere's a very entertaining Vila story as well as the more usual Avon ones.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:48:28 -0000
From: "Jenni-Alison" <jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Message-Id: <199802151947.UAA23535@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Avona Wrote:
>
> I'd rather be in Avon's crew than Blake's. His sense of honor
drives him
> to be very careful with lives, more so than an idealist would be.
(Not
> that Blake didn't care about his crew, but he cared about ending
the
> Federation more)
I think I'd prefer to be in Blake's crew, although I totally adore
Avon. The reason is simple - Avon wasn't comfortable being the
leader, the Decision Maker. I always believed that the friction
between Avon and Tarrant in 1st season was partly due to the fact
that Avon hoped Tarrant could be the de-facto leader, but that Avon
could second guess him (as "owner" of the Liberator) whenever it
suited him. Anyone who's ever tried to manage, lead, or supervise a
team knows this won't work. Tarrant tries to step up to the mark as
the decision maker, but is too young/impetuous/reckless for Avon's
taste, and naturally Tarrant doesn't like Avon's on again/off again
leadership. When Avon realises that Tarrant can't be an amenable,
persuadable Blake, he finally and reluctantly takes control, quite
firmly (around Sarcophagus time). However, Avon doesn't like being in
charge, and is really looking for someone to lead instead of him.
Tarrant settles in to being 2nd in command too comfortably to ever
challenge again, so - he needs Blake. If they had survived the Blake
debacle and Blake hadn't lived, I'm sure Avon would have tried to
chivvy Tarrant up to the mark at some time into the future. If Blake
had lived, Avon wouldn't have led - he'd have abdicated and sniped
from the sidelines again, as only he knows how. Yum.
>
> Have I worded this okay?
Don't worry about wording it ok - you're entitled to your opinion,
and the fact that we're all on this mailing list together means we
want you to assume that we're entitled to it too! For what it's
worth, I lurked nervously for ages before actually posting, and I
think you're really brave just to jump in the deep end as you did.
>
> Avon RULES!
Yes!!!!! Sexiest man in the universe.
>Blake MANIPULATES A VOTE IN HIS FAVOR!
But he's so fascinating and passionate, so I'll vote for him!
>Tarrant GOES OFF HALF-COCKED AND ALMOST GETS KILLED BUT SAVES THE
DAY!
And he looks so cute and sexy doing it too!
>Vila STEALS!
a gun, and saves everyone in a quiet and unassuming manner. He's also
lovely, and I want to give him a cuddle.
> Oh, dear. I'm LOSING IT!
That's why we're here - B7 cyberjunkies.
Jenni
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:56:01 -0000
From: "Jenni-Alison" <jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety
Message-Id: <199802152025.VAA25508@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Carol McCoy listed many wonderfull examples of Avon risking his neck
for his crew, but I'd like to add:
Redemption: After losing Jenna on the surface, he, Gan and Vila go
back to the surface and expose themselves to excessive radiation
untill they find her, (and Meegat, a woman with taste!). Ok, Blake
does make it clear he expects Avon to do it, but this is one of the
few times Avon doesn't fight with Blake over risking his life.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:24:57 -0000
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Cross-overs
Message-ID: <01BD3A4F.EF369100@host5-99-61-28.btinternet.com>
Tom here. Rob Clother asked:
>Has anyone ever conceived of a B7/HitchHiker's cross-over? It would be
>worth it just to see what kind of relationship develops between Orac and
>Marvin. :->
Well, yes, I considered it, and I'm still vaguely considering it. There are
a number of problems, though:
1. You'd have to write humour at least half as well as Adams, or it
wouldn't really work.
2. B7 is all about plot and characters. HHGG has no coherent plot and no
particularly deep characters. Not meaning any disrespect, of course, but
even when it does have a plot, it's not the sort of conventional firm-SF
plot that B7 usually has.
3. Blake would want to go up against the Krikkit robots, and they'd all get
bowled out in no time. Blake would try and set up a solid opening
partnership with Avon but spend most of his time at the crease ducking the
really hard balls. As soon as he managed a cautious single, Avon would be
in bat, and he'd constantly block everything, then swipe madly at one, set
off running, not hit it as far as he'd have hoped, and get Blake run out.
Gan would be in next, and he's so slow and lumbering that he'd get hit by
every single bouncer. Fourtunately, they don't hurt him much, which is
lucky because he's forgotten his helmet. Finally, one would glance off his
limiter and he'd go bezerk, hit the umpire, pass out and have to be carried
off the field.
Jenna would be next in, brilliantly sending balls to the boundary all over
the place. But then she'd suddenly remember that she'd left the oven on,
get distracted, be clean bowled and wander off looking huffy and saying
that she had another match to go to and never be heard from again. Cally
would be next up, and with Avon standing opposite her, she'd obviously
dress in one of those diaphenous crepe-paper numbers. She would manage to
stop flirting long enough to read the next ball perfectly, have plenty of
time to decide where to hit it, thwack it for a solid boundary and then
find that on the backswing her draping sleeve had caught the bails. So it's
23 for 4, and over to Richie.
Yes, thankyou Geoffrey. It's a lovely sunny day here at the Oval, and apart
from the odd comic interlude from a streaking Chesterfield, it's been
absoloute carnarge out there. The Krikkit Robots' first innings of 512 was
only halted when Dayna started bowling hand-grenades. We never quite saw
where she produced them from, but she managed to get six of them out before
being called in for ball-tampering. Gan then bowled a ball at mach 2 and
took one of their heads off, Tarrant blinded one by flashing the sun off
his teeth, and wicketkeeper Soolin just shot the final two in the back. So
now it's back to Blake's Innings, and it's Avon still at the crease, and
joining him the new batsman is Dayna.
Dayna would be using a specially-modified bat of her own design. She's very
good with it, but she has spotted Servalan sitting in the crowd and keeps
trying to knock her teeth out with the ball. This means she's a bit too
predictable, and falls prey to some good fielder placement. And thus Orac
comes in to bat. Despite the lack of limbs, Orac is extremely effective,
and takes over the bowler and wicketkeepers' minds. He manages to score
quite a number of leg-byes before Avon starts feeling hot and gives his
studded leather jacket to the umpire. On the walk back to his crease, he
trips over Orac and knocks off the activator chip, and that's Orac clean
bowled on the next ball.
Tarrant tries his usual teeth-flashing trick, but then it gets cloudy and
he stupidly plays at a vicious bouncer, just tips it, and gets caught out
in the mid-field. The Liberator is next in bat, and with careful use of the
force-wall, Zen fends off some fiendish bowling, but never actually manages
any runs. As they go into the tea interval, the score is 32 for 7.
Unfortunately, during tea, someone balances a cup on Liberator, and then
kocks it over with their elbow. To everyone's horror, the tea-covered
Liberator melts into a puddle, with Zen wailing "I have failed".
After the unfortunate events of tea, Soolin comes in. She has a nasty habit
of shooting the balls she doesn't like the look of, which does save her
wicket a couple of times, but gets her a stern warning from the umpire.
Then she spots Avon grinning at her cleavage from the other end and shoots
at him. He ducks, but meanwhile she has stepped out of her crease and the
wicketkeeper tips the bails off. Last in is Vila. Vila lasts for quite a
long time, but only because they can't find the bails for half an hour. It
then transpires that Vila has half-inched them, and once found he cowers
behind his bat and is bowled. Avon snarles definately at everyone, but you
can't play on with only one man in, so that's the end of the game. Final
score: 42 all out.
4. Always assuming they managed to overcome the might of the Krikkit
xenophobes, Blake would want to re-instate President Zaphod (just like S
arkoff). And then the universe would be in trouble.
5. I've already got my hands full with these damned Excessive computers,
and what with all the plot-holing that it requires, I'm a bit busy. All
yours...
Tom Forsyth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:41:10 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UK Gold
Message-ID: <34E7C366.5D3D@dial.pipex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Rob Clother wrote:
> They're showing "Terminal" on UK
> Gold tomorrow, then next week they're diving straight into "Rescue".
But they didn't! Today (15th Feb) should have been Terminal and we just
got a double Dr Who omnibus. I am distraught as I too am watching most of
these for the first time.
Is there anybody out there with a Cable or Satellite guide for the rest
of the month who can reassure me that this is only a temporary hiatus and
not UK Gold abandoning us 3/4 of the way through?
Julie Horner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:34:08 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day
Message-Id: <l03130301b10d00d4cb5f@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Penny and /or Judith wrote
>That picture is gorgeous - I had to remove it from my desk because it was
>too distracting when I was working!)
><I feel much the same about the picture on page 28 of "B7 the Inside
>Story.">
>*****
>Ah yes, but if you want a deep dark enigmatic glimpse inside the true heart
>of a charismatic revolutionary, the look of a man with the destiny of a
>mortal Federation in his hands, the face & stance of the True One who will
>lead his people into the light, the spirit that makes women swoon and men
>tremble, you really need to be looking at page 29 instead.
I now know the significance of these exchanges, as my beloved gave me a
copy of The Inside Story for Valentines Day. <beams> I'm so understood 8-)
0'course, I had to turn to page 29 first - Beloved and I were both ROFL ;-)
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
AVON IS A FRIEND IN A FISHTANK. MORBIUS'S BRAIN WAS NOT LOGIC; THAT
WAS SURREALISM. - MegaHal 8, 16/2/1998
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:46:31 -0700 (MST)
From: The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Spin off Mailing Lists
Message-Id: <199802152046.NAA03168@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Question what are the spinoff lists and how does one subscribe?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:09:25 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Message-ID: <5d212f16.34e75987@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-02-15 11:41:29 EST, Iian writes:
<< Avon regards Gan as stupid, dull and slow, and treats him with
undisguised contempt. >>
Actually, I've been suprised at how little Avon digs into Gan, as big a
target as he is. I've not noticed Gan catching any more flak than the others;
Avon seems to dish out his virtriul(sic) impartially. One of my favorite
background scenes, I don't remember which episode, has Gan and Avon hunched
over a control panel in the background as Blake talks in the foreground. So
Avon was willing to expend time and effort with Gan. And he did sacrifice a
bolthole for the man. Perhaps Gan's utter honesty affectted him more than he
realized, or he was impressed by Gan's determination to do the best he could(
putting up with Orac as a tutor would have driven all the Alphas on board
bonkers, I think).
D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:21:28 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: Avon on Terminal
Message-ID: <88cea301.34e75c5a@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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My original responce to Julia's posting got bounced, so I thought I'd try
again.
Julia wrote<< The look on Avon's face in this scene is something to behold.
Blake was the real bait all along.>>
I loved the contrast of his laughing answer to Servalan just before this
scene, and then this spot. It makes clear that to Avon, at least, Blake was
indeed the bait. I disagree that Servalan considered Blake the true bait,
however. I always looked at her speech as a chance to twist a knife into
Avon's metaphorical gut; not because she thought he was obsessed with Blake,
but because she was stamping on his pride of Intellect. Her whole point was
that he was gullible enough to fall for her illusion; had been too dense to
see throught the trap. ANother irony in the chain of events...
Deborah Rose
" I will stay calm. I will stay calm. 6 weeks is a nanosecond in cosmic
terms..."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:27:50 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety
Message-ID: <eZiHHAAG$050EwDY@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199802151609.LAA24983@yfn.ysu.edu>, "Carol A. McCoy"
<ay648@yfn.ysu.edu> writes
>
>
>Julia wrote:
>
>>And as a hard-core Avon fan, I have to agree. Yes, he's pretty. Yes, he
>>can be, in his own way, a decent chap. He's also very, very dangerous.
>
>I suddenly feel as if I'm missing something. Dangerous in what way,
>Julia?
Urgh. I'm busy packing, can I be excused? At least from a detailed
reply?
(Especially as a certain beta-reader is going to start nagging about
wanting to see the rest of the story *before* I depart these shores)
At this distance in time, I can't give you specific reasons for why I
felt 19-20 years ago that Blake might want to dump Avon out an airlock,
other than the general insubordination, backchat and trying to undermine
his authority. (Not that I think that Blake is as entitled to that
authority as he does, there were three of them in the boarding party,
after all.) Oh, and planning to leave him behind on Cygnus Alpha.
Obviously, I could go through the scripts and pick out the bits that I'd
see that way now. At least from Blake's point of view. They might not be
the same as I saw then. I have a rather more jaundiced view of Blake
now.
I could give you chapter and verse on why Avon is a man to be wary of,
but a significant indicator is the man's body count. Even adjusting for
number of episodes, he kills an awful lot of people.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:50:54 -0000
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: Safety
Message-ID: <01BD3A5C.D504B660@host5-99-61-28.btinternet.com>
If I were in a tight spot, I'd rely more on Blake to come and bail me out -
Avon might decide not to bother. OTOH, Blake would be more likely to get
you _into_ a tight spot with his rebellion bit. And if Avon did decide you
were worth the trouble of rescuing, he'd probably come up with a rational
plan for doing it, rather than just rush in with guns and hope for the best
as Blake might well do.
So I have to say I wouldn't consider either of them particularly safe to be
around for any length of time. But if I were a close friend I'd probably
trust Avon more, if I were a more casual acquaintance I'd put my faith in
Blake 8-)
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:53:35 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day
Message-ID: <vL0rjFAfP250Ewkt@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <l03130301b10d00d4cb5f@[139.80.16.149]>, Nicola Collie
<nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz> writes
>
>I now know the significance of these exchanges, as my beloved gave me a
>copy of The Inside Story for Valentines Day. <beams> I'm so understood 8-)
>0'course, I had to turn to page 29 first - Beloved and I were both ROFL ;-)
Now do you understand why several *con* reports from last year's Neutral
Zone (first public sighting - and signing - of The Inside Story)
mentioned this page in particular?
One of my fondest memories of that con is Judith Proctor very close to
literally ROFL, waving an open copy and giggling hysterically. Rapidly
followed by several other purchasers on seeing what she was laughing at.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:47:28 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UK Gold
Message-ID: <o7PqfDAwJ250EwmJ@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34E7C366.5D3D@dial.pipex.com>, "J. I. Horner"
<jihorner@dial.pipex.com> writes
>Rob Clother wrote:
>
>> They're showing "Terminal" on UK
>> Gold tomorrow, then next week they're diving straight into "Rescue".
>
>But they didn't! Today (15th Feb) should have been Terminal and we just
>got a double Dr Who omnibus. I am distraught as I too am watching most of
>these for the first time.
>
>Is there anybody out there with a Cable or Satellite guide for the rest
>of the month who can reassure me that this is only a temporary hiatus and
>not UK Gold abandoning us 3/4 of the way through?
>
This is what they do when they come to a two-parter or six-parter (or
equivalent for the Great 45 Minute Experiment) on Dr Who - it wouldn't
fit in the normal 2 hour Who slot, so they use the B7 slot and show 6
episodes, either 2+4 or 4+2 or 6. There's normally one of these per
season in the Pertwee/Baker/Davison eras.
It deeply distressed me the first time this happened after I started
watching UK Gold. I figured out what was going on the second time.
Terminal should be on next week, but I haven't actually checked yet.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:59:04 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Cross-overs
Message-Id: <l03130305b10d2213b993@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tom here. Rob Clother asked:
>>Has anyone ever conceived of a B7/HitchHiker's cross-over? It would be
>>worth it just to see what kind of relationship develops between Orac and
>>Marvin. :->
>
>Well, yes, I considered it, and I'm still vaguely considering it. There are
>a number of problems, though:
>
>1. You'd have to write humour at least half as well as Adams, or it
>wouldn't really work.
>
>2. B7 is all about plot and characters. HHGG has no coherent plot and no
>particularly deep characters. Not meaning any disrespect, of course, but
>even when it does have a plot, it's not the sort of conventional firm-SF
>plot that B7 usually has.
>
>3.
[very amusing unconventional Adams-style B7/Krikkit account snipped]
Well, it seems to me that you've qualified based on points 1 and 2 above -
would you like to have a go? Oh - looks like you have - um, yes, very good,
as you were ;-)
Seriously, I thought this was great chuckle material <clapclapclap>.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
AVON IS A FRIEND IN A FISHTANK. MORBIUS'S BRAIN WAS NOT LOGIC; THAT
WAS SURREALISM. - MegaHal 8, 16/2/1998
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 15:24:10 -0800
From: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <n1324566095.3930@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>>Rob wrote:
>>Tarrant to contact Liberator. And it's Tarrant who shows Avon how to
>>get the information they need out of the dying Grenlee.
>Precisely. And does he get any thanks for it? Does he even get any
>acknowledgement? Certainly not later in the episode, where Avon
>doesn't consider him to be anything other than an obstruction.
I see this differently...
By Avon's very nature, he has difficulty expressing gratitude, or any feelings
at all, and the crew know this. Tarrant, and the others, got their
"acknowledgement" from the very fact that Avon LET them see him like this...that
he 'asked' for their help and support...and that he felt secure enough with them
to even tell them about Anna. Avon wouldn't allow that kind of vulnerability
with people he didn't respect and (more importantly) trust.
Tarrant understood all of this without it having to be voiced. He accepted the
leadership role and responsibility for the "mission" and even became proctective
of Avon. And he did this without feeling the need to hear Avon "voice" his
gratitude. He knew it was there. Much the same way that Avon didn't need to
hear Tarrant say "thank you" for his support in "Deathwatch."
Like Narrelle, I used to intensely dislike Tarrant, but, thru the influence of
some Tarrant fans, :) I have been taking a second look at him -- and I'm
discovering there is a lot about him to like.
I am still an Avonphile right down to my tingling toes; but I've gained a whole
new appreciation of Tarrant. ;)
Carol K
(still a slavering A.S.S. for my lust-bunny Avon)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:29:00 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980215181728.32095A-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 Pat Patera wrote:
>We have the Disgustingly Slavering Avon Fans, the Tarrant Nostra
>and ... what is the Blake's bunch called? With Judith keeping us updated
>on how marvy Gareth looks now gone grey: How about Silverbacks?
LOL! 8-) If this is going to involve waggling alarmingly red butts
in anyone's face...well, let's not go there...
Most fans who have a preference for Blake are, of course, too smart
and rational to give themselves a silly name or align themselves with a
faction sporting a silly name. I, on the other hand...8-) have settled on
BITCH. I dunno, it just sort of suits me. It's an acronym, too, maybe I
should mention that. 8-) Blake Is The Chosen Hero. If there's more than me
in the group, The can change to Their. I look forward to the BITCH buttons
at MediaWest. 8-)
Oooh! We could even have funky first names, like the Spice Girls.
I wanna be Sarcastic Bitch! Or Castrating Bitch. Choices, choices...
Like Judith, btw, I would delineate between Gareth fans and Blake
fans. Unlike Judith, I prefer the latter to the former.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
B.I.T.C.H. "It's not just what I do. It's who I am."
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 15:36:52 -0800
From: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish
Message-ID: <n1324565196.58540@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>Carol McCoy wrote:
>Tarrant said he was surprised that Avon came back for him in "Rescue." On
>the other hand, I don't think any of his shipmates would ever have doubted
<that Tarrant would come back for them.
Well, Vila has doubted it often enough. But, then, that's Vila--and he doesn't
count.
I think Cally, Dayna, and even Vila (and later Soolin) had no doubts that Avon
would come back for...or rescue them.
>And, yes, eventually Tarrant realized he could count on Avon, but if Avon
>had been more honest to begin with, all that time of doubt would have been
>avoided.
I don't think it had so much to do with honesty as with neither of them knowing
where they stood with the other. In the beginning of their relationship, Avon
and Tarrant were sizing each other up, feeling each other out (minds out of the
gutter slash fans!). As we saw in season four, they eventually worked it out
beautifully.
Carol K
(AVON RULES!!!!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:16:09 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety
Message-ID: <199802160016.TAA05229@yfn.ysu.edu>
Judith wrote:
>I was tired and on edge waiting for Richard who was several hours late after
>delays at the airport. Definately not thinking at my best. I wouldn't buy all
>of your examples as some of them don't constitute major risk to Avon's own neck,
>but there's certainly several that I'd accept.
Sorry about your airport wait. That would be draining. And I can
understand that you'd think of Blake first. I'm sure I'm guilty of
being Tarrantcentric often enough. :)
I appreciate the Jenna rescue information from you and Jenni. I have
to count on the list for 1st-2nd season memory refreshers until I have
time to rewatch eps.
>My neck's still too sore to elaborate in detail on the way I see some of the
>episodes, but many of the times he took a personal risk was because he also
>stood to benefit (eg. he too was in danger in Assassin).
I considered that in regards to Assassin. Avon *was* in as much danger
from Cancer as the others. But I left it in because Avon chose to
do the dirtiest job himself. I think we'd all agree that he could
have forced Vila to do the job, or easily gotten energetic Dayna or
the relentlessly reckless Tarrant to volunteer.
My backstory is that Avon decided it was his turn to take the risks.
I could be wrong. I can't come up with any other canonical references
to back that idea. It's a gut instinct.
>However, I think many of us would agree that Avon had an internal double
>standard. If asked, he would have claimed to risk his neck for nobody except
>himself (and Anna). In actuality, in situations like 'Horizon' he was sometimes
>glad of an excuse to do the 'right thing'.
Absolutely. I think he was glad to have Blake and Tarrant around to act
as group conscience. He never had to suggest the heroic charge into the
Valley of Death, because he knew one of them would do it for him. He
liked not having to reveal that he cared.
>Do we ever see Avon laugh or give a large smile at any other time than when
>things are at their absolute worst? eg. Horizon (when he has to go to the
>rescue), Gold (when the money is useless), Terminal (the end), Blake (the end).
I probably have Avon smiles tagged in my visual notes of the series that
I use for music vidding, but I don't have time to sift through them
all now. There's a smile in "Countdown" when he's where the
solium bomb is located. I think that's after they disarm it, but I'm
not sure.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:24:04 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety
Message-ID: <199802160024.TAA05663@yfn.ysu.edu>
Julia wrote:
>Urgh. I'm busy packing, can I be excused? At least from a detailed
>reply?
Yes, of course. I appreciate that you took time to write up as
much as you did.
I was just curious (and not in the way Dayna is ;-). I think
because I have Patti's "computer nerd" image of Avon in my mind, and
I tend to agree with it. I don't so much see Avon as a dangerous
man as a man who was forced to become dangerous by circumstance.
That little bit of difference means a lot to me in terms of Avon's
basic character/inner nature.
Have a good, safe trip, Julia.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:19:58 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Page 29/Double takes
Message-Id: <l03130306b10d34e6260c@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Julia:
>Now do you understand why several *con* reports from last year's Neutral
>Zone (first public sighting - and signing - of The Inside Story)
>mentioned this page in particular?
Absolutely, although I have no recollection of seeing any of these con reports.
>One of my fondest memories of that con is Judith Proctor very close to
>literally ROFL, waving an open copy and giggling hysterically. Rapidly
>followed by several other purchasers on seeing what she was laughing at.
Sounds like mayhem ensued. Now I just have to get the image of hordes of
fen rolling about the floor out of my head. :-)
On a distantly related note, every time I see a reference to NZ or even
Neutral Zone, I have to look twice. Why? Because I'm conditioned to take
especial notice of anything referring to my fair homeland. Anything
mentioning NZ and Australia in close proximity rates a triple-take.
Not complaining, just observing.
ttfn, Nicola (of the wobbly eyeballs)
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
AVON IS A FRIEND IN A FISHTANK. MORBIUS'S BRAIN WAS NOT LOGIC; THAT
WAS SURREALISM. - MegaHal 8, 16/2/1998
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:31:07 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Message-ID: <199802160031.TAA06291@yfn.ysu.edu>
Sue wrote:
> Most fans who have a preference for Blake are, of course, too smart
>and rational to give themselves a silly name or align themselves with a
>faction sporting a silly name. I, on the other hand...8-) have settled on
>BITCH. I dunno, it just sort of suits me. It's an acronym, too, maybe I
>should mention that. 8-) Blake Is The Chosen Hero.
Snarf...<g> I like it.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:53:26 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish
Message-ID: <199802160053.TAA08457@yfn.ysu.edu>
Carol K wrote:
A post with superb Avon and Tarrant character neep that I'm storing away
for reference material.
She also wrote:
>>Carol McCoy wrote:
>>Tarrant said he was surprised that Avon came back for him in "Rescue." On
>>the other hand, I don't think any of his shipmates would ever have doubted
><that Tarrant would come back for them.
>
>Well, Vila has doubted it often enough. But, then, that's Vila--and he doesn't
>count.
I thought of Vila's "doubts" when I wrote my post, but I dismissed them
as not serious. I think a lot of Vila's nattering "so and so isn't
coming back for me (us)" was more an attempt to get out of the mission
than as serious doubting. Such as in Orbit when he suggests Tarrant
will run out on them (to Avon). And in Games when he suggests Avon
will abandon them (to Tarrant).
>I think Cally, Dayna, and even Vila (and later Soolin) had no doubts that Avon
>would come back for...or rescue them.
I'd basically agree with that--at least as far as what my memory will
tell me (it's only mostly Tarrant scenes that are writ in stone <g>).
Though I'm not sure Vila would feel the same after "Orbit." His
faith had been shaken. I'm writing myself a note to check out the
Cally-Avon scene in Horizon (when they are the only two on the ship). I
think that would help me get a better picture of whether Cally did
or didn't have doubts about Avon.
>I don't think it had so much to do with honesty as with neither of them knowing
>where they stood with the other. In the beginning of their relationship, Avon
>and Tarrant were sizing each other up, feeling each other out (minds out of the
>gutter slash fans!). As we saw in season four, they eventually worked it out
>beautifully.
That's a good distinction. It wasn't just sizing each other up, feeling each
other out, it was also getting to know each other. Tarrant as a basically
forthright person tended to believe that everyone else was the same (until
proven different). So he accepted Avon's outward show of not caring as
gospel truth. It took him a long time of observing Avon before he
knew to look at Avon's behavior more than his words.
And I suppose it is unfair of me to wish Avon were more honest. He
can't change his nature any more than Tarrant can change his reckless
impetuousity. I wouldn't want them to change. I like them as they
are. But I can still feel a bit sniffy for Tarrant that he doubted
Avon would come back for him in "Terminal." <sniff, sniff>
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 16:53:10 -0800
From: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon Morals
Message-ID: <n1324560693.29262@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>Penny wrote:
>Did he have no practical reasons? As I recall, he reasoned that he could
>manage the ship alone unless three or more Federation pursuit ships
>appeared. They did appear, hence his wonderful laugh full face in the
>camera, and then he HAD to rescue them, since he needed them.
Why did he need them?? Avon could have broken orbit and left Horizon and the
crew far behind before the pursuit ships arrived.
I've envisioned that "wonderful laugh full face in the camera" to be Avon
laughing at himself. Because he realized that, even though he COULD get away,
he was going to do the "foolish" thing and rescue them. THAT'S MY MAN!!!
Carol K
(AVON RULES!!!!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:14:13 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety
Message-ID: <34E792E5.6FD4@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Early on, Avon asked Genna if she could kill someone face to face, and
said he'd never been in a situation to find out.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:09:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Susan.Moore@uni.edu
To: BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Assorted comments
Message-id: <01ITMB7HSCN68Z3ZMQ@uni.edu>
Tom - Thanks for the cricket match. I've decided if I keep reading stuff about
cricket I'll eventually understand the game. So, not only was your piece
entertaining but educational as well!
Judith - Great news about the Straight Blake issues. I have the first one,
which besides the excellent Vila story has other great stories (particularly
Red Queen, Black Queen) which have to be read. Ooooh and the great
Soolin/*Avon story.
To everyone else, thanks for the thought-provoking comments about everybody.
Susan "my goal in life is to get asteriks by my name on Sue Clerc's web page"
M.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #48
*************************************