From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #325 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/325 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 325 Today's Topics: [B7L] dystopias/natural culture [B7L] Re: Cally (long) Re: [B7L] Alan Stevens' Tapes Re: [B7L] Re: Cally [B7L] Soldiers of Love pt 3 - review [B7L] Great new B7 Genzine available! [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! [B7L] prices of Rites of Passage [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! Re: [B7L] the Federation Re: [B7L] the Federation [B7L] Avalon Re: [B7L] the Federation [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #324 Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:59:32 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] dystopias/natural culture Message-ID: <19991120065934.83388.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ellyne wrote: Oh our poor poor darlings...tough call as to which one of them would be more nonplussed by *this* idea . But of course (and seriously, folks) it's *Tarrant* who's really a Blake by birth. The curls, the ego, and the unerring ability to aggravate you-know-who... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 23:07:28 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Cally (long) Message-ID: <19991120070734.92213.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ben wrote: First of all, let's all remember that this thread started when I listed the things about both Cally and Avon that IMO the other would find off-putting in a close relationship. *Naturally* said things were the less edifying aspects of their characters - as I saw them. In Cally's case, there were three - self- righteousness, a tendency towards humourlessness and a strong but lazy conscience (and that word 'strong' is very important BTW. Vila's is considerably lazier, but I can't see it ever getting in Avon's way enough to annoy him ). True, I don't like Cally as a character (more than Servalan or Dayna, though) but this is hardly a long list. See my answer to Mistral about Voice from the Past for what I consider some of Cally's strengths, very well depicted there. No, of course I wouldn't like Cally to blandly agree with Blake. Does Avon????? Equally importantly, does Gan? Of course not. In both Shadow and Pressure Point, he has serious and strongly worded reservations about both Blake's actions and the reasons for those actions and *he is absolutely right*. In Trial, Jenna is irked enough about Blake's bolt to seriously consider ditching him and, while I can understand what he does, I think she also has good reason to feel that way. Cally does have a right to express her opinion. It's the way *I* see her doing it - sometimes self-righteous disdain (Breakdown, Children), sometimes abrupt, unthought-out moral cold-feet (Star One), and sometimes just plain complacency (Shadow, Moloch). All coming together as a pattern of a flawed conscience. You don't see it that way. Fair enough. (And of course, Avon is the master at self-proclaimed superiority, but then he does it so beautifully...) Cally is a *nicer* person than just about everyone else in the various crews (mind you, this is not difficult). But I didn't think we were discussing that - we were discussing what might make it difficult for Avon to get any closer than just liking (and Avon doesn't seem to value niceness). She started it And tit-for-tat is not very mature behaviour on either part. No proof that she did, either. She could have, but given her general attitude throughout, I'd put my money on few if any. Now. About your final paragraph...I've said unkind (if IMHO true) things about Cally in this thread because we were talking *about* Cally, and unkind things about her in the earlier Star One thread because it is my opinion that she behaved badly then. I know I'm a minority here - some fans seem to use what Cally and Avon say to make Blake out as more evil than the entire Federation. I've said unkind things about just about every character (with the notable exception of my darling Jarriere) since I joined this august Lyst. In the same post where I assigned these - errr - qualities to Cally, I also mentioned that I didn't think *she'd* be able to ignore Avon's unabashed selfishness, verbal cruelty and something else I can't recall. And I could add quite a few more to Kerr's less lovable qualities (arrogance, intolerance, ruthlessness, evil temper, genuine indifference to *nearly* every human in the galaxy, etc) without any trouble. And yes, I can come up with quite a number for Blake as well - he's possibly *more* arrogant, in a less showy way, than Avon or Tarrant, has a frighteningly cold-blooded streak and a gift for manipulation that he uses sparingly but with uncanny accuracy; he can be ruthless, dispassionately violent, temperamental, wilful, and obstinate to the point (and sometimes way past it) of pig-headedness. But let no one assume from this lot that I'm dumping on these two (or I'll treat you to a full list of what I see as *their* good qualities, and trust me, it's even longer). If I've got anyone on a pedestal, it's a badly cracked one... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:08:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Alan Stevens' Tapes Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Fri 19 Nov, Una McCormack wrote: > Horizon is no longer stocking these tapes: 'Travis: The Final Act'; 'The > Mark Of Kane' and 'The Logic of Empire'. > > If you have ordered one, and your order has not been fulfilled, or if you > would like to order one, then please direct queries to either Judith Proctor > via website, I can't fill orders that were paid to Horizon (and neither I presume can Alan); I can only sell you a new copy by return of post, but Alan did mention that he had a few copies of the Travis tape that had been autographed by Brian Croucher and that he'd prefer those to go to people who'd been trying to get the tape for a long time. You can buy those via me too, but again, they really are for people who've been trying to get the tape for ages. They won't cost any more than the unautographed ones. I imagine Alan would probably be happy to sell an autographed Travis tape to someone who has been waiting for another tape. We'll trust you to be honest when claiming an autographed tape. We've no way of knowing who has unfilled tape orders, we simply know that there are a fair number. We'd appreciate it if you'd pass on details to anyone you know who isn't on-line who is tryng to get hold of 'Travis: The Final Act', 'The Mark Of Kane' or 'The Logic of Empire'. Please note that Linda Knights doesn't have any of the autographed tapes at present - her stock is of non-autographed tapes. Americans can get autographe ones via me if they mail me $ cash. Australians can get them via Pat Fenech - you can find the price in $Aus via my web site - http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Please make it clear if you're asking for one with an autograph. Incidentally, it's always possible that Horizon might find a few copies hiding in a cupboard somewhere. You can always try hanging on if you want to wait. If you do get a copy from Alan or myself, then you'd better ask Horizon if they'll use the money from your tape order for a zine or something else just to avoid the risk of ending up with two copies. Incidentally, it's always possible that Horizon might find a few copies hiding in a cupboard somewhere. You can always try hanging on if you want to wait. If you do get a copy from Alan or myself, then you'd better ask Horizon if they'll use the money from your tape order for a zine or something else just to avoid the risk of ending up with two copies. There'll be a delay of a few days on autographed tapes as I have to get those from Alan. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:03:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cally Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 20 Nov, Sally Manton wrote: > There's even a rare touch of humour - "I'm not that alien". And > her mental powers get unobtrusive but practical use (noticing the > oscillating tone) without the 'I feeeel it' nonsense of Horizon. I always thought that was put on to impress Ro. If you want to be seen a a seeress, better act like one. JUdith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:46:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Freedom City Subject: [B7L] Soldiers of Love pt 3 - review Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Soldiers of Love 3 - Metamorphs review by Judith Proctor On the first pass, I didn't like this CD as much as the previous two, but it's growing on me second time around. The fact that I heard it the first time under less than ideal listening conditions probably made a difference too. I'm sure I'll be listening to it a third time and possibly more. These CDs usually repay multiple listenings. The title 'Metamorphs' makes good sense. Lots of the characters are changing and changing in different ways. It struck me recently (well, actually the producer pointed it out to me) that many of the actors are quite deliberately cast against type. Thus Nicholas Courtney, who is best known as the militaristic Brigader, is here playing Turnidus - a pacifist. I really love his performace in the part. Turnidus has amazing knowledge of things like piloting spacecraft, but is essentially child-like: inquisitive and delighting in new things to play with. Jan Chappell is playing a large, mean, take-no-nonsense alien with evil plans. She's good too. Her voice has a filter because she's a giant frog, but the menace comes over very nicely. Gareth Thomas is once again the villanous editor, speading his evil schemes with glee. He does make such a delightful baddie - perfect for the style of the whole thing with bucket-loads of melodrama in his performance. Michael Keating is perhaps the only one as we'd expect him to be. He has a commedy character. Mydas (Michael's character) is often funny simply by saying things things that are totally bizzare and out of context. His character is currently suffering the side-effects of having his mind removed... The plot gets ever more complex, though a few loose ends are tied up in this episode. It ends, as one might epect, on a major cliff-hanger. Cast changes/availability forced a few changes. Jackie Pearce was performing at the Edinburgh festival when this one was recorded, so Madame Deephole is largely off-stage. She will be back in a future episode though. The character of Cilla, originally played by Norman Lovett (who was in my opinion the only badly cast character in the first episode) now has a new voice. This makes very good sense within the context of the story and the new actor sounds better. (I was quite impressed by Mark Thompson's impersonation of Norman's voice until the plot reached the point for the voice-swop.) There are occasional advantages to audio. I can laugh at the description of a character dressed in yellow hot pants and a paisley polo-neck, but I'm not sure that I could survive actually seeing it... I always have mixed feelings about the music in this series. Some of the songs are pretty poor, but again it seems to be very much a matter of taste (Kelvin played one of the earlier ones continually while he was revising). To my surprise, I rather liked the ones this time. More melody to them. Gareth gets to sing, although it's rather gruff as he's doing it in the Editor's voice. Metamorphs is funny, but you *have* to have the right sense of humour. I noticed that my boys were laughing at some bits that I wasn't. They like lavatory jokes. On the other hand, I'm pretty certain my 12 year old didn't get all the more adult jokes. He loves the whole thing though. This always leaves me very uncertain as to whether to recommend it for children or not. It doesn't contain bad language per se, but if you're put off by jokes with pretty specific sexual innuendo (and I do *mean* pretty specific), then you might not want to let children near it. On the other hand, Kelvin and Henry have played all the CDs repeatedly and grabbed number 3 out of my hands as soon as it appeared in the post. I think Henry likes the fact that the characters keep insulting each other all the time. This is cheap and cheerful comic-book SF. Machines can remove minds, transport people and space-ships over massive distances, put a man's mind in a drinks dispenser (I really like Yztabub the drinks dispenser), change a person's appearance or even gender. Gender is pretty fluid in this series. There's Dr Proctor (no relation) a lesbian with eight tentacles (I think the voice is really too masculine - several of the parts are played by actors of the opposite gender and sometimes it works well and sometimes it doesn't.), Teddy the effeminite dentist who has more fetishes than you can easily count, Cilla the transexual and the Editor who is rumoured to have peculiar habits with regard to frocks. I would have said that the whole 'Soldiers of Love' series was really ideal listening for slash fans with a warped sense of humour, except that this wouldn't explain why my 17 year old (who has so far displayed zero interest in adult material of any kind - his only pin-up is of Susan Death) enjoys it so much. In the end, all I can say is that most of the 'Soldiers of Love' CDs I sold at Eclecticon were sold by the simple expedient of letting people listen to it on my walkman. Judith PS. I could have sworn there was an extra bit of relish in the voice when the Editor summons his henchwoman Dr Proctor... (Mark swears to me that the character was named a long time ago, but I still find it amusing. I rather suspect Gareth did too.) -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:33:09 -0500 From: Susan Beth To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Great new B7 Genzine available! Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19991120093309.012d5744@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After the glowing reviews of "Rites of Passage" were posted, there were several posts giving conflicting info on how best to order it. So I contacted the publisher, Pat Fenech, and here's the latest info. [message passed along to lysator and Freedom City at writer's request] From: "Afenech" To: Subject: Rites of passage Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 22:39:39 +1100 RITES OF PASSAGE _________________ 'Rites of passage' is a genzine, its focus Avon's journey from Earth to Gauda Prime - and beyond. It is 116 pages - comb bound - all illustrations are by Val Westall and the stories are seperated by collages of pictures designed to visually draw the reader from one story to the next. It is a themed zine - the four stories look at significant moments in Avon's journey - or his rites of passage. 1 - 'Under a dark star sail' - Pat Fenech - examines the 'London' voyage from Avon's pov. 2 - 'Lazarus entombed' - Ana Morgan - set just prior to 'Rumours' and has Avon & Anna's thoughts about their relationship and from Anna's pov what might result should they meet again, while from Avon's the thoughts which impel him to seek revenge for Anna's sake. 3 - 'Remember me' - Pat Fenech - set just after 'Orbit' and imagines Blake and Avon remembering their association & deciding to attempt re-association. 4 - 'The thirteenth hour' - Bryn Lantry - takes up the story immediately after the debacle in the tracking gallery and examines how Blake & Avon get past what happened. Due to finding a much cheaper binding deal the new prices are: 5 Pounds English Sterling (Air-Mail) 10 American Dollars (Air-Mail) 7 Australian Dollars (posted in Australia) (I do not mind what denominations) I am happy to take cash. I can always use English & American money. My address is: Pat Fenech 11 Lincoln Street Stanmore, NSW, 2048 Australia I would prefer not to have personal cheques sent as the bank charges highly to convert in Australian dollars - but if you wish to send a cheque email me for the revised (upwards) price. If you wish you may order thru' Judith Proctor. Judith Proctor, 28 Diprose Rd, Corfe Mullen, Wimborne, Dorset, BH21 3QY England just send Judith the money in either US dollars or English pounds - she will let me know you have ordered and I will send off your copy straight away. It will probably be possible to order thru' Linda Knights as well - Linda has provisionally said she will agent - but I have to make confirm the details with her, which I will do over the weekend - the method being the same as with Judith - money to Linda & she will tell me to send the zine to you. Any questions email me Pat Fenech: fenech@onaustralia.com.au Pat F Susan Beth (susanbeth33@mindspring.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:34:15 -0500 From: Susan Beth To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19991120103415.01285e8c@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, replying to my own message, sorry. Two additional bits of info that might be of use for people ordering this zine: It occurs to me that Pat might find it useful to not have ALL her U.S. fund in ten dollar bills. So if you happen to have a couple of fives handy.... I just checked, and airmail postage from the US to Australia for your ordinary letter (ordinary size, 1 oz. or less) is 60 cents. (I wonder why so cheap? It's a buck to England, and that is a whole lot closer....) Susan Beth (susanbeth33@mindspring.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:35:34 EST From: Mac4781@aol.com To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! Message-ID: <0.9921c224.256827d6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan Beth wrote: > I just checked, and airmail postage from the US to Australia for your > ordinary letter (ordinary size, 1 oz. or less) is 60 cents. > > (I wonder why so cheap? It's a buck to England, and that is a whole lot > closer....) Someone gave you wrong information. Airmail letter postage to Australia and England is the same. 1/2 oz or less is $.60. Every additional 1/2 oz is $.40. Thanks for getting the specifics on "Rites of Passage," Susan Beth. I'm really impressed with Pat's prices. Even with expensive overseas postage, she's brought the zine in at less than $.10 per page including postage, and some of those pages are gorgeously reproduced photo collages. There were US zines at Eclecticon that were as high as $.22 per page (and that's without postage). Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:24:33 EST From: JEB31538@cs.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] prices of Rites of Passage Message-ID: <0.18f279be.25684161@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This is my first Lysator posting. If you're on Freedom City, you read my long intro. I won't bore you people again. I'm Joyce Bowen and an avid Blake fan as well as a fan of Gareth Thomas. I'm a lurker by nature since I'm not very computer oriented and find this list business extremely strange. I'm 56, a major dinosaur, and I love print zines--despite being told to my face by various BNFs who do Ezines that print zines are dead. Not for me--I treasure mine. I perhaps own maybe 80-90% of all the zines ever done which have Blake in them to any degree. I avoid Blake bashers whenever I can, though I do own some zines where he's "trashed" more than not. I highly recommend RITES OF PASSAGE--an Avon genzine. Probably a flyer will appear on this list soon. (I get digests--so prehaps it's already appeared??) But in brief, the prices are cheap--and do include postage. (These are new prices, by the way.) USE CASH. It's 5 British pounds for UK, 10 US dollars for Americans, and 7 Australian dollars for Australians. This includes postage. Email Pat Fenech if your case doesn't apply: fenech@onaustralia.com.au Her address for ordering is Pat Fenech, 11 Lincoln Street, Stanmore, NSW 2048, Australia The zine has four stories (2 by Fenech, 1 by Ana Morgan, and 1 by Bryn Lantry) which take Avon from the LONDON to post Gauda Prime. Blake plays a major part in this Avon genzine so that's why I recommending it. I love the zine. Pat gives very fast service. There are/will be other ways of getting this zine, but frankly sending Pat cash now will result in you getting your zine quickly. The only problem that might occur is the normal December/Christmas postage slowdown. Joyce Bowen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 15:26:20 -0500 From: Susan Beth To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19991120152620.012a4ed0@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mac4781@aol.com wrote: >Someone gave you wrong information. Airmail letter postage to Australia and >England is the same. 1/2 oz or less is $.60. Every additional 1/2 oz is >$.40. Huh. Oh, maybe my envelope weighed less than a half oz, and that explains it -- the postie just told me what it cost, not the whole song and dance. > >Thanks for getting the specifics on "Rites of Passage," Susan Beth. I'm >really impressed with Pat's prices. Even with expensive overseas postage, >she's brought the zine in at less than $.10 per page including postage, and >some of those pages are gorgeously reproduced photo collages. There were US >zines at Eclecticon that were as high as $.22 per page (and that's without >postage). I'm amazed at Pat's prices, too! I've seen a zine selling (hand to hand at a con, not thru the mail) for nearly 30 cents (!) a page. It makes me wonder.... If *she* can produce a zine so cheaply, why are some other editor's prices so high? Probably they have different philosophies about exactly what are the "costs" that ought to be spread over the run of the zine. Maybe their buyers are helping to buy a new printer for the editor -- or her airfare to the con. Susan Beth (susanbeth33@mindspring.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:57:31 -0000 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] the Federation Message-ID: <010601bf33a4$586f3740$af618cd4@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Neil Faulkner >The 'evil' of the Victorian-era >empires lay not in the brutalisation of the colonised peoples, but in their >exploitation - of their labour, their land, and their natural resources. >(And it's still going on - how else do you think your grocery bill's so >low?) > And what exactly were the Federation doing? On Horizon it was exactly this. So going back to the original point, the Federation is not necessarily as bad as the worst excess' of Stalinist Russia, but perhaps just an empire, just like ours. And we think we are OK. Neil said of the Spanish that... >Whole civilisations were >systematically dismantled in the name of self-righteous Christian >superiority. Cities and temples were levelled, the people effectively >enslaved, entire tribes exterminated. So rather than being akin to Stalinists, are you trying to liken the Federation to the Christian community ? This is all good support of my original point. Thanks. Andrew p.s. Interesting that someone using tesco.net should talk about grocery bills. Perhaps I should get into communications. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:49:38 -0000 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] the Federation Message-ID: <010501bf33a4$56a26680$af618cd4@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith said, >Armies don't always revolt, or it doesn't always succeed. Look how long Stalin >remained in power. I regard him as being on a level with the Federation. > Stalin won a HUGE war, that counts as a credit against a whole lot of corruption. We don't know about the recent history of the Federation, but there is no reference to a war. I think I went into the "acceptance level of corruption" before. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:43:32 -0000 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: [B7L] Avalon Message-ID: <010301bf33a4$52c5a180$af618cd4@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sally Manton >(See Steve, I'm being very obedient...) Me too. >Mind you, I've thought once or twice that someone like Avalon (i e >a rebel totally *unlike* Blake) would have made quite quite an >interesting member of the Liberator crew (say in an AU story). >She *could* have brought Tarrant and Cally on side (and maybe >Dayna, thanks to her grief over her father and hatred of Servalan), pushing >them to keep up the fight, and she's pretty enough to >inspire Vila to want to please her, at least. This aspect has always interested me. What would have happened if x,y, and z joined the crew after this episode of that. Avalon's case seems strange, some people Blake plants to sow the seeds of revolution, but Avalon had lost her group, and had no alternative to go to. Helping Blake would be the obvious next move. Before anybody tells me, I know the reason is budgets, I just like to dream. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:44:15 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] the Federation Message-ID: <19991121004435.14598.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Judith wrote: And Andrwe replied: True, but let's go back to the 37-39 Terror, when the Red Army remained loyal to Stalin's government (if not the man personally) even while their ranks were being decimated. Thousands of officers of all ranks were being arrested/shot on an almost daily basis - the head of the security forces would send out orders for the *number* of people to be arrested, like bulk orders. No one - military, political, civilian - was safe for more than 2 days running, yet there was no resistance, and no revolt. Seeing as a creature like Servalan was in command of the Federation's military forces, I don't imagine that FSA officers would have been any more secure than than Red Army counterparts. Then (to bring up *that* regime again) many German officers loathed Hitler, the Nazis and their government. Some - relatively few - worked with the German resistance, but the overwhelming majority put their perceived military duty ahead of their own morality, and either obeyed orders they knew were immoral or inhuman, or at the least closed their eyes while the SS did so. I tend to equate the FSA with the Waffen SS, a criminal military force of oppression, so I can see the small number of 'better' people in the FSA (like Samor) doing just this. This is of course JMO. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:50:11 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #324 Message-ID: <38374FD2.6D49@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Oh, absolutely! Vila would bullshit wildly based on someone else's lecture > notes, and an Open University programme he saw at 2am one morning some time > in 1986. He would end up with either the highest or lowest grade the class > had ever had. > > > Una And, having ended up with the highest grade by accident, traded grades with-- ??? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:21:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Great new B7 Genzine available! Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 20 Nov, Mac4781@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for getting the specifics on "Rites of Passage," Susan Beth. I'm > really impressed with Pat's prices. Even with expensive overseas postage, > she's brought the zine in at less than $.10 per page including postage, and > some of those pages are gorgeously reproduced photo collages. There were US > zines at Eclecticon that were as high as $.22 per page (and that's without > postage). That's partly because the Australian dollar is very low at present. All Australian zines are really good value right now. For Australians buying zines from the rest of the world, the cost is horrendous. I really feel for them. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #325 **************************************