From tariqas-approval Sat Jul 1 11:48:30 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05422; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:48:32 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05406; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:48:31 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA005338110; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:48:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:48:30 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <950701154829_82346755@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Allah's 'human' characteristics? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: where is the al-ikhlas (unity) surah in the Quran, please? in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Sat Jul 1 11:54:10 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06727; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:54:11 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06718; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:54:10 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA191268450; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:54:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:54:10 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <950701155343_82348796@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Islamic scholars on Tasawwuf ("sufism") Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: re Javad Nurbakhsh's The Truth of Love (vs. Dr. Naqshbandi's writings on love) thank you for the suggestion: I will try to check it out! who knows, maybe that's what it was! (I can still remember the cover with its design, so I should recognize it, as well as the text ... ) this lifetime, at leas,t I am incarnated as a human being, in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Sat Jul 1 13:55:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12889; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 17:58:30 -0400 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12883; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 17:58:29 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA236455717; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 17:55:17 -0400 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 17:55:17 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <950701175516_106274331@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: What is the news? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: re yellow journalism and pulp and junk, noise on tv endless ... there is certainly a lot to criticize. one way to deal with a noxious atmosphere is to breathe other air. no way is required to have cable tv, to watch tv, or even to own a tv: I know people who stopped the tv addict habit in the late 1960s (after the killings and Chicago Dem. primary fiasco of 1968) and who are thriving and well in the world, despite not knowing what major serial sit-coms have been on for the past quarter century. in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Sat Jul 1 14:44:09 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24989; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 18:44:15 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24978; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 18:44:14 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V4.3-7 #8051) id <01HSD6RNQA1SQPGL9P@ccmail.sunysb.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 18:44:09 EDT Date: Sat, 01 Jul 1995 18:44:09 -0400 (EDT) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: The Paradise of Women To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HSD6RNQTC2QPGL9P@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 01-Jul-1995 06:36pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: The Paradise of Women as-salamu alaykum, The following is a preview of Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's forthcoming book on angels in tasawwuf (sufism), due to come out in September insha Allah, at KAZI Publications. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation THE PARADISE OF WOMEN ======================================== The Fifth Paradise: Jannat al-Na`im The Prophet travelled for 500,000 light-years, after which he arrived at the fifth Paradise, which is called Jannat al-Na`im, "the Garden of Beauty and Felicity." Its door is made of mixed gold and silver from heaven. Gabriel knocked at the door and a voice said: "Who is it?" "Gabriel, bringing the Prophet, Peace be upon him." "Has he been sent for?" "Yes." "Welcome, O Beloved one, to the fifth Paradise!" The door opened, and the Prophet saw five beautiful ladies whose radiant light among their servants made them appear like diamonds surrounded by pearls. His heart was moved towards them. He asked Gabriel: "Who are these ladies?" He answered: "This is Eve, the mother of human beings; this is the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus; this is Moses' mother Yukabid; and this is Assia, the wife of Pharaoh." The fifth lady looked like a sun among stars. Her light shone over the rest of the inhabitants of that Paradise like a gentle breeze passing through the tree-leaves. Gabriel said: "This is an angel representing your daughter Fatima, O Prophet." The Prophet asked: "Gabriel, what is the secret of this Paradise?" Gabriel said: "God created this Paradise to reflect the beauty and perfection of women. The ht thisParae is t sce thngel lis ofl wenear Wen e reated to carry the secret of creation in themselves. God has honored them greatly by making their wombs the repository of His word, which represents the Spirit. He looks at the most sacred place and there descends His mercy and blessings. He perfected that place and covered it with three protective layers to shelter it from any damage. The first is a layer of light, the second a layer of love, the third a layer of beauty. There he fashions and creates human beings after His likeness, as the Prophet said: 'God created Adam after His likeness.' He orders the angels of the womb to perfect His creation by giving the baby life, beauty, health, intelligence, and all kinds of perfect attributes that will make each one distinguished among human beings. "Women are not created weaker but more generous than men. They are created more beautiful and less fierce, as beauty hates to hurt and harm others. That is why they seem weak to people, but in reality they are not. Angels are the strongest of created beings, and women are closer to the angelic nature than men, as they are readier than men to carry angelic light. It is the good manners and ethics of spirituality which they carry which makes them less forceful than men. Even physically, however, they are extremely strong. They undergo great upheavals in their body without flinching for the sake of childbirth, and face the direst physical conditions more successfully than men, because God has enabled them to insure the survival of generations. "God gave women five angelic qualities which men rarely have. They are the source of peace, as God said that He created them "so that ye might find rest in them" (30:21), and this is the attribute of the first Paradise, which is named "the Abode of Peace." They are oases of constancy in the midst of chaos and change, and that is why they give birth, as the mother nurtures and shelters the baby more reliably than the father. This is the attribute of the Second Paradise, which is named "the Abode of Constancy." They perpetuate generation, and through their offspring God creates prophets and saints who establish His perpetual remembrance on earth as the angels establish it in Heaven. This is the attribute of the Third Paradise, which is named "the Abode of Eternity. They are generous and bountiful, as they are described as "a fertile land" in all Scriptures, because they give without counting, including life, and sacrifice themselves for the sake of another creation, and this is the attribute of the Fourth Paradise, which is named "the Sheltering Garden." Finally, they are the source of Beauty, as through them God has crowned the earth with the diadem of angelic grace, through their softness and subtlety. And this is the attribute of the Fifth Paradise, which is named "the Garden of Beauty." ============================ For more information contact: KAZI Publications 3023 W. Belmont Rd. Chicago, IL Tel. (312) 267-7001 Fax (312) 267-7002 +++ From tariqas-approval Sat Jul 1 10:03:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14338; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 20:00:57 -0400 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Island.IslandNet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14321; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 20:00:55 -0400 Received: from Thormanby.IslandNet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sSCVl-000L38C; Sat, 1 Jul 95 17:03 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sat, 1 Jul 95 17:03 PDT X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: TV Roses Watermelons and other authorities Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A I wonder if some of you >out there can tell me your experience (not somebodies supposed theory but >your experience) as well as the thinking that explains your experience. > I would just like to see more discussion related to Sufism. What >are the sufi points of view (vantage points not opinion or argument points). > Asha >I hope that I am saying this clearly. My Dearest Asha, To be vulnerable and share from one's experience can be both a very dangerous as well as harmful thing to-do. Would I speak to an open forum about a love affair or something of an intinmate nature. Discretion has its virtues. A relatedness with the Beloved is much like a love affair. Sufi's as far as I have read are indeed passionate lovers. Extasy crouds the very nature of good adab. For fear of offence it appears that one might simply hint at that which is wet and slippery or hard and prickly. Poetry begins to be a good format, but even here care is needed. I have loved with the exception of the few poems I have shared lurking and listening over the past month on Tariqaus. I have been challenged especially by the person who questioned Allah in the arena of personalizing a relationship. Immediately I wanted to write. To say that I am Moslem, and fully recognise that most Moslems would never agree. The love I have experienced from Allah has been more real than thousand of computer images, thousands of essays, thousands of sermons. It broke the very barriers of my imagination and taught me I know nothing, absolutly nothing. I have wanted to say that I have stood in front of the sword of Ali in Istanbul and felt nothing, that I in my western pomposity stood in front of the clippings of the Prophet's hair, or mustache and felt disgust at the carnal nature of the display, and I prayed hard and fast to gain some capacity some understanding, but there was none. I have wanted to say that each time I find myself doing salat on a regular basis my ego goes completely out of whack and I cannot stand myself. I have wanted to say that the Sura of the Calph disgusts me as much as the Psalms of David, and that many of the beliefs expoused in the Torah, the New Testimant and the Holy Koran I am certain did not come directly from God. I wanted to say that many of the Hadiths are fables to subdue the masses, and that none of these have altered the love I have for God. And further my own experience tells me that God's love for me is more real than anything I have experienced.That I am a Jew, a Moslem, a Christian, a Budahist, a Zoroastrian, or even a Thelemite does not mean I have to agree with the books of these religions. I have stood paralyzed many times wondering what a Sufi is. And know by the way, that if I ever met a saint, I would meet a Sufi. And have been honored to meet a few of varying beliefs, but all had a profound love for one Truth which is always becomming. I study Sufism and love people who study Sufism the same way that I study Paramahansa Yogananda who does not call himself a Sufi. For the first two years after being initiated into the Sufi Order I checked around because my Moslem background and the way it was initially beaten into me would never let me think that anyone could possibly be a student of Suffism without being a Moslem, and so I checked out Shayke Nazim and he intitiated me when he came to the U.S., and Sheik Nur (Lex Hixon) and he intitiated me and I believe somehow I assisted him in the publishing of "Atom From The Sun of Knowledge". I journeyed to Turkey in my quest only to find Lovers of Allah everywhere regardless of what exoteric belief system they subscribed to. So Asha thank you for your comments and for those which I have offended. Please forgive me and always pray for those like myself who are forever seeking, and who from time to time have by grace been given a glimpse of Paradise, a taste of Divine Love, a thirst for the Truth. And please do not disrespect them because they are not an orthodox this or an orthodax that, and expect that if they tell you of their true experiece they will sound undeniably heretical, unequivecably irreverant. According to the "The Wisdom of Central Asia" there are those who are sober. And according to my teacher and dearest love Pir Villiat there are those who are refined, but to ask a mob like those of us participating in Tariqas to come from our experience, to break our degree of sacred containment, to become something other than non-rlational or un-detached could set a fire which would require a new level of resposibility. A culture the like of which, which has not been experienced is on the rise with inter-net. A group mind disgned through sharing and unique indviduation is astir. It appears as though we are moving with a greart degree of volocity. I love the potential of becomming with you each and with you collectively. Your Loving Brother Jabriel > > ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Sat Jul 1 10:03:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14369; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 20:00:59 -0400 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Island.IslandNet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14343; Sat, 1 Jul 1995 20:00:58 -0400 Received: from Thormanby.IslandNet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sSCVs-000L39C; Sat, 1 Jul 95 17:03 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sat, 1 Jul 95 17:03 PDT X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Musawir Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: MUSAWIR What can be said of lucid ecstasy is only an embellishment; consciousness, union, Gnostic wisdom only words? When Adam learned the names and the wonderful art of baptism, God did not request the angels to bow down unto the word before the demarcation, definition, distinction, existence or even essence before the cross cultural but archetypal dream, before spirituous or the very first breath was breathed into creation before time or the first dot in space before the womb there was no God, But God to canalize the form and accommodate the manner in which each creation took its separate flight to expand, contract, evolve dancing to a sound flowing from a source of grace which generated holographic visions perpetuating permeation's each unique individuation, volition full and free expression emerging emanation shaping all creation with perfect liberation A light behind the light casting thinking shadows casting lanterns whose bright flames burnt without a crutch without a wick and whose golden chain of brightness made of crystal hearts , masters, saints and prophets scaling ladders without steps reaching to the depths to the heights with wings of perfect love reaching into luminescence a fire stretching streams of liquid amber rising mountains and the galactic landscapes leaving me singing How I love the miracle of creation is how much more I love what it has become becomming The returning twists of vapor the changing re-arranging forms stretch across the heavens to something like a sound an idea gushing like a geyser up and down the branches always feeding thirsty roots and sustaining a mighty core up its arms raise in prayer, bending with the cosmic blasts of constriction and expansion from the hearts of children with angelic streams of vision Before the word there was the distinction Before the definition there was the demarcation Before existence there was the essence before time there was the shadow the shadow of a brilliant veil ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 06:51:58 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09409; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 06:53:14 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09401; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 06:53:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id UAA08574; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:53:10 +1000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:51:58 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Re: Allah's 'human' characteristics? To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <950701154829_82346755@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 1 Jul 1995 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > where is the al-ikhlas (unity) surah in the Quran, please? > in peace, > Jinavamsa Assalamu alaikum, Jinavamsa, Sura al-Ikhlas is Surah no. 112. Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Sun Jul 2 11:56:58 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27927; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 10:57:59 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27921; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 10:57:58 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 10:57:58 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: TV Roses Watermelons and other authorities To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. My dearest Jabreil (and other members of tariqas): On Sat, 1 Jul 1995, Jabreil Hanafi wrote: > To be vulnerable and share from one's experience can be both a very > dangerous as well as harmful thing to-do. Would I speak to an open forum > about a love affair or something of an intinmate nature. Discretion has its > virtues. And then, you proceed to share your heart in this open forum in the most wonderful and daring way I can imagine. I want to thank you, my dearest friend, for the tremendous beauty you have brought to tariqas. God's impact on us doesn't always result in a strictly defined "box" -- often it results in a cloud of wonderous poetry. Thank you so much for being open to it. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Sun Jul 2 08:55:10 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14971; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 12:55:15 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14957; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 12:55:14 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA003044110; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 12:55:10 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 12:55:10 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <950702125510_106584434@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Allah's 'human' characteristics? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: thank you for responding to my request and referring me to Surah 112 (al-Ikhlas, Unity) in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Sun Jul 2 09:05:59 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20319; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 13:06:00 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20309; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 13:05:59 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA276594759; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 13:05:59 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 13:05:59 -0400 From: ASHA101@aol.com Message-Id: <950702130558_23940696@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: TV Roses Watermelons and other authorities Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Jabriel, Someone recently (just one minute ago) said the word 'authentic' to me. I value it above all else. Thank you for speaking the heart of a Sufi, it makes these pages sparkle. Asha From tariqas-approval Sun Jul 2 20:16:49 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02968; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:16:49 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:16:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199507030016.AA02968@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From JJEarley@aol.com Sun Jul 2 16:16:47 1995 Return-Path: Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02961; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:16:48 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA227370607; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:16:47 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:16:47 -0400 From: JJEarley@aol.com Message-Id: <950702201645_24119044@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe until further notice, please. Will be travelling and cannot save or access e-mail. From tariqas-approval Sun Jul 2 22:33:07 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26014; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 22:33:07 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 22:33:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199507030233.AA26014@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From aislinn@pcnet.com Sun Jul 2 18:34:52 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25987; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 22:33:05 -0400 Received: from 204.213.234.113 (ts4-pt13.pcnet.com) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11833; Sun, 2 Jul 95 22:34:53 EDT Date: Sun, 2 Jul 95 22:34:52 EDT Message-Id: <9507030234.AA11833@pcnet1.pcnet.com> From: aislinn@pcnet.com To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) unsubscribe From tariqas-approval Sun Jul 2 16:55:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20025; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 02:52:50 -0400 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Island.IslandNet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20015; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 02:52:49 -0400 Received: from Snake.IslandNet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sSfQ8-000L3fC; Sun, 2 Jul 95 23:55 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sun, 2 Jul 95 23:55 PDT X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: al Gaffar Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Al Ghaffar Guilt is a coat I call my denial it is the manner in which I stand blind This is the prop I am afraid to surrender the fortification of an ego's inglorious fate The delusion that alcohol is that which brings joy that cigarettes are succuerance letting me breathe that sexual fantasies are ardently practiced that reality is substituted with illusion with age Guilt is the screen which keeps me from You it is the manner in which I stand in a stupor and blind breaking all vows life becomes empty this spine feels like jelly allowing my tongue with no will to have a mind of its own Guilt is the sword of a soldier gone wild cutting the heart away from the man now all that is left is a mechanical venture mischief the fuel survival the game stabbing your brother insulting your neighbor this is the trap of commerce and vice the whore of desire, the prick of the needle, toxic pollution a virus which spreads turbulence and violence crash through the stillness while peace or the soul may never be found Who else can I ask for the strength that it takes to absolve the image shattered by time to forgive myself to pardon my neighbor give me the strength to bend to my knees teach me to know that you can erase the disease and make as before innocence-nature-pristine, and vanquished desire cast out the error leaving the past and breathe into the future life into life marry this psyche marry this breath join these two at the core of my heart let me proceed in strength for you Allah let me proceed as a healer of men. ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 02:17:10 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17150; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:10:22 -0400 Received: from wizard.Colorado.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17139; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:10:20 -0400 Received: from granger.colorado.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01HSFD7R9P009X447B@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 08:10 GMT Date: Mon, 03 Jul 1995 08:17:10 -0600 From: granger_m@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (Mike Granger) Subject: RE: suggestion and clarification To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HSFD7R9P009X447B@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Mr. Pflaum, I take it that this is your response to my earlier question about my asking you "where you are coming from". I sense some agitation at the tail end of this posting, like my question was out of line or something? Well, at least you don't give simple yes or no answers. If this is indeed your answer, then I suppose I might somehow be able to thread all of this together and figure it out. Anyway, thanks for responding. Abdas Salam Granger >"Peter E. Pflaum, Ph.D. Institute for Human Resources (904) 428-9609 >pflaump@mail.firn.edu pflaump@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu" > >PFLAUMP@freenet.scri.fsu.edu > >RE: The structure of knowledge and The meaning of Life: > > PATHOS LOGOS ETHOS >Z-LEVEL----------------|------------------|---------------- >adult SPIRIT | MEANING | SOUL >Essence | | > | | >Y-LEVEL----------------|------------------|---------------- >youth EMPATHY | SELF (EGO) | MORALS >Language | | > | | >X-LEVEL----------------|------------------|---------------- >Child PASSION | NEEDS | ME-VALUES >Material | | > FEELINGS THOUGHTS VALUES > BEAUTIFUL TRUE GOOD > HEART MIND SOUL > >All level are part of life - It is not higher or lower >Reality is multi-leveled. > >Level one (X) material things The chair, physical feeling >including passions (Fight/Flight Syndrome) Basic and Safety >needs (MASLOW) >Law No. 1 - NO free lunch - matter or energy is not created >or destroyed - you don't get something for nothing - also if >you want to move on it will take energy - For Covey it is >getting control of you thinking, going from reactive to >proactive. >Management style is rule, laws, tests, inspections, top >down, we do The thinking you do The work - The Navy way - >Model Organization GM - teaching (training) by step-by-step >manuals with a PERFORMANCE test and grades. > >Level two (Y) social behavior and habits. The prevailing >paradigm - capitalism, individualism, socialism, Christian >etc. Love and Self-esteem in MASLOW. In Covey social and >family responsibility. Trust and respect of what ever the >Romans are doing. Language is a social convention and >carries The context, subjective meaning. >Law no 2. If no one does it doesn't get done - or If not me >who? If not now when? (Social responsibility) >Management style is participation - human relations - >motivational and personality driven. Do you have The right >attitude? Do you fit in? Model organization IBM. Teaching >style progressive education - social skills, getting along >and streaming or tracking. > >Level three (Z) = character - synergy - in MASLOW's last book >B (for being Values) Now this is The spirit world of Don >Juan, (Fiction as Anthropology) or The Peter Weir Film The >last Wave (Fiction as Anthropology). There is no language to >talk about The third level. (Language is a social convention >- what we mean by Justice is a cultural totem). > >Law No. 3 - there has to be something beyond the self - while >entropy increase so does Empathy. There must be a global ethic >for a global culture. Our tribal customs no longer work. See >below for one teachers statement of law 3. > >The Classical Greek culture that developed these levels had >three words for reality - material - language - and really- >real. A tree (level 1) is an object - as a word it means one >thing in Florida and another in Maine. (because we have different >trees) Level 2. > >A picture of a tree by a great artist is beautiful >because of its treeness. (level 3) Not only that she has created >something but put herself in a meaningful relationship with >trees. For most Westerner this VISION thing is hard. > >I just saw a VIPER - it is passion, it is material but also it is >a dream. We are sold dreams all The time - this product will make >you beautiful, sexy, respected. Our nation was founded on >dreams and advertising and politicians sell dreams. (Illusions) > >Without higher (3 rd level) causes the rest falls apart - >families, companies, states, organizations, all come apart >when they no longer share "The dream" - Israel - USSR - >Chrysler before it's dreams were restored. Facts follow >vision - first Lee had to dream up a car like The Viper - >then make it. Because there is not a social convention or a >material object when you talk of dreams no one knows what >you are talking about. (That doesn't make them less important, >life love, faith, hope, justice, et al) The way is by practice - >The Sufi or Zen way. The teaching style is open, cooperative, >active non-directive and creative. Riddles and parables are used >to illustrate issues that can not be approached directly/ > >In the Episcopal Church (COE) the book of common prayer >gives the summary before the lesson; one great teacher put it >this way. > >Matt 22:36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the >Law?" >Jesus replied: "`Love the Lord your God with all your heart >(level 1) and with all your soul (level 3) and with all your >mind.' (level 2) >This is the first and greatest commandment. >And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' >All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." >(NIV) Law No. 3. >God is mind - the first cause, God is body and God is spirit > >************************************************************ >Peter E. Pflaum Ph.D. GLOBAL_VILLAGE_SCHOOLHOUSE >225 Robinson Road, New Smyrna Beach * IN THE WORLD - >FL 32169-2176 (904) 428-9609 * BUT NOT OF THE WORLD >PetePflaum@aol.com * ACTIVE - COOPERATIVE - >PFLAUMP@mail.firn.edu * SMALL SCHOOLS JOURNALS >pflaump@freenet.scri.fsu.edu, Pflaump@freenet.fsu.edu, >ZEN IS THE ART OF GETTING YOURSELF OUT OF YOUR OWN WAY >************************************************************ > >Is This OK? Anyone not want to READ this? Do not flame! > > From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 06:12:34 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22109; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:20:41 -0400 Received: from UTCVM.UTC.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22076; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:20:38 -0400 Message-Id: <199507031420.AA22076@world.std.com> Received: from UTCVM.UTC.EDU by UTCVM.UTC.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1290; Mon, 03 Jul 95 10:20:34 EDT Received: from UTCVM.UTC.EDU (NJE origin JHENRY@UTCVM) by UTCVM.UTC.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4241; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:20:34 -0400 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 95 10:12:34 EDT From: Jim Henry in Chattanooga 615-755-4398 Subject: Re: TV Roses Watermelons and other authorities To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 1 Jul 95 17:03 PDT from Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Jabriel-- I am truly touched by what you exposed of yourself. I am moved and excited at different times by what I read (as a mostly lurker) on Tariqas. Being a techno-nerd and a seeker, I have a curiosity to discover what this internet thing can bring to me and what I can share through it. Your sharing about your responses about viewing the sword of Ali or hair of the prophet struck a familiar chord in me. Thank you very much for showing your courage to share. JIM On Sat, 1 Jul 95 17:03 PDT Jabreil Hanafi said: > To be vulnerable and share from one's experience can be both a very >dangerous as well as harmful thing to-do. Would I speak to an open forum >about a love affair or something of an intinmate nature. Discretion has its >virtues. >A culture the like of which, which has not been experienced is on the rise >with inter-net. A group mind disgned through sharing and unique >indviduation is astir. It appears as though we are moving with a greart >degree of volocity. I love the potential of becomming with you each and >with you collectively. > > Your Loving Brother > > Jabriel From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 02:51:13 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04109; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:44:35 -0400 Received: from wizard.Colorado.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04087; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:44:33 -0400 Received: from granger.colorado.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01HSFEEY7FLC9X44DF@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 08:44 GMT Date: Mon, 03 Jul 1995 08:51:13 -0600 From: granger_m@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (Mike Granger) Subject: RE: Anti-Islam propaganda/actions and the coming years To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HSFEEY7FLC9X44DF@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >At 12:19 PM 6/29/95, Mike Moore wrote: > > > When the government cuts a theif's hand off because >>it says to do so in the Koran, I'd call that a theocracy. When a govenment >>practices Koranic Law, I'd call it a theocracy. Now, mind you, I've >>got nothing against theocracy as a form of government as long as God >>is running it. > >I have been told one is always given the choice of being tried as a Muslim >under Koranic Law or being tried under a parallel British-style legal >system that has been set up for non-Muslims. Trial by Koranic Law is >considered an important right by many. > Interesting. However, if a Muslim were to choose to be tried under secular law, then wouldn't they also be charged with apostasy, which I beleive is, under Sharia', a capital offense? A.S. Granger >Bob > >Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a treasure without end. >olh@nbn.com | >P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a >Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. >415.457.2620 | >415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == > > > From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 07:25:53 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25460; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 11:24:45 -0400 Received: from vaxc.hofstra.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25426; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 11:24:43 -0400 Received: from vaxc.hofstra.edu by vaxc.hofstra.edu (PMDF V4.3-10 #3680) id <01HSFJUOQW5C9EGIPO@vaxc.hofstra.edu>; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 11:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 1995 11:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: DRMLJG@vaxc.hofstra.edu Subject: Vacation ideas? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HSFJUOWSCI9EGIPO@vaxc.hofstra.edu> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: First, a heartfelt thanks to the wonderful replies I received in regard to my mother's passing. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Please permit a mundane question. I would appreciate suggestions for good vacation ideas. I am going to be on vacation in August and would like to do something interesting and unique. I don't have a lot of money so I think I will have to stay in the states. I live in New York, but I do drive and I have a car. I like to combine spirituality with my vacations. Any ideas? Thanks. Abdullah Hicksvilli From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 07:24:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23964; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:24:12 -0400 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23939; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:24:11 -0400 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa16006; 3 Jul 95 12:24 EDT Received: from [128.143.3.227] (ara-mac-227.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.227]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA152283 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:24:06 -0400 Message-Id: <199507031624.MAA152283@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:24:52 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: Moreon TV and Siddi Issa Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > From this I think that any >broadcast of Siddi Issa flying in the air is going to be a fake whose >puppet-master controllers will use to their own ends in service to Shaitan >and jinns and the forces of Antichrist himself. as-salaamu 'alaykum, no doubt it will start out like that. in that sense it will the final inversion in the Guenonian sense. then it will turn around and come from the other direction as something totally real. i would suggest reading the Signs of the Times {alamtu-s-sa'} in the Book of Fitan in various collections of ahadith and remember the following. "there are those who are waiting for al-mahdi and there are those for whom al-mahdi has come just as there are those who are waiting for the day of judgement and there are those for whom the day of judgement has come and gone." i only told the story of the wali to open up another way of seeing, another way of looking at things. if being is only real when i am then tv or not tv is hardly the question. wa salaam ANDurkee From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 08:21:36 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25634; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:20:57 -0400 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25624; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:20:55 -0400 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa23580; 3 Jul 95 13:20 EDT Received: from [128.143.3.227] (ara-mac-227.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.227]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA51051 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:20:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199507031720.NAA51051@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:21:36 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: Re 2000 one culture's millenium Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >Assalamu alaikum. > >I hope no-one will take offense at what I have to say, but for a long >time I have had some concerns and now I wish to share them with the >tariqas group. > >I am deeply concerned about what may happen, Insh'Allah, over the next >few years (in particular around the year 2000). > >habib rose as-salaamu 'alaykum ya habib, For a Muslim the year 2000 will simply be the year 1421 and part of 1422 Hijri. I think for Jews it is somewhere in the 5700's or thereabouts and who knows for the Hindus which kalpa we are in. I grew up in America and celebrated Christmas every year until I became a Muslim. I remember waking up one day on what was December 25th when I was living in Makkah and realising it was just another day. In the same way 2000 may be just another year. The return of Sayyidina 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him and his mother, will, however, not be something that no one will notice nor will it be something that can in any way be faked. It will be very real. The when of it is known to Allah and is not fixed in time. Remember, "there are those for whom al-madhi has come and those who are still waiting just as there are those for whom the day of judgement is coming and those for whom it has come and past." this knowledge is akin to the knowledge of the Night of Power. wa salaam- ANDurkee From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 07:37:25 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09069; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:42:40 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09032; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:42:36 -0400 Received: from virginia.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywus09643; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:37:44 -0400 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa17667; 3 Jul 95 12:36 EDT Received: from [128.143.3.227] (ara-mac-227.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.227]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA120349 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:36:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199507031636.MAA120349@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:37:25 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: the forest issue Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >May I take your tree analogy and run with it a little? > >Yes each tree does not regard itself as other than the forest perhaps -- that >is does not >say down with beeches, we want only oaks growing here. But each does reach >for all the available sunlight and some of them crowd others out. While they >are being part of the forest they are very much primarily for themselves. > Or, being for themselves, is what being part of the forest is about. The >way in which they grow and prosper, while >being only concerned with their own agenda feeds the forest ecosystem. > >Looked at this way does your forest analogy still work in the "human >ecosystem"? as-salaamu 'alaykum, sometimes i look at it like this and this also relates to the man who lost his mother. "...often appears atrociously ugly. Integrity is wholeness, the great beauty is Organic wholeness, the wholenss of life and things, the divine beauty of the universe. Love that, not man apart from that, or else you will share man's pitiful confusions, or drown in despair when his days darken." from "The Answer" by Robinson Jeffers in Selected Poetry of 1938 wa salaam ANDurkee From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 09:43:20 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09505; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:43:21 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09483; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:43:20 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA287773400; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:43:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:43:20 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <950703134039_107133406@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: suggestion and clarification Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >at the end of the earlier posting is a question about anyone want not to read this, please don't flame this is not at all a flame to your posting. (and again, this is not tongue-in-cheek or ironic). my own experience of this was one of initial interest which turned after several screens worth of charted analysis into a dissipation of my curiosity which quickly turned into an urge to read my next message. so, it was not that I did not want to read what you had to say, but the energy required to see what it was about was not there for me. Maybe in smaller quantities it could work better. just an idea. in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 03:42:15 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13121; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:49:31 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13080; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:49:29 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA09183; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 10:46:15 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA13882; Mon, 3 Jul 95 10:50:07 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA05779; Mon, 3 Jul 95 10:42:15 PDT Date: Mon, 3 Jul 95 10:42:15 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9507031742.AA05779@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Vacation ideas? Cc: mateens@sybase.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: dear Abdullah, salaam alaykum. I might suggest that you spend a portion of your vacation at the Haqqani Foundation Retreat center, in Michigan. The early part of August is the time of Mawlid, a celebration of the birth of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and all the prophets. There will be some lovely ceremonies at the Retreat center, with Shaykh Hisham Kabbani leading Mawlid (mevlud), dhikr and so on. The center is open to all of good will, just bring a tent and sleeping bag and you're set. To cover the cost of group meals, please consider a donation of a reasonable amount. best wishes, --mateen siddiqui From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 08:05:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27945; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:15:35 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27929; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:15:33 -0400 Received: from virginia.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywuu14832; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:05:31 -0400 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa21257; 3 Jul 95 13:04 EDT Received: from [128.143.3.227] (ara-mac-227.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.227]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA120946 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:04:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199507031704.NAA120946@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:05:12 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: Re: Allah's 'human' characteristics? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >where is the al-ikhlas (unity) surah in the Quran, please? >in peace, >Jinavamsa peace, al-'ikhlas or sincerity or unity is # 112 inshallah. wa salaam ANDurkee From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 08:56:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18383; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:56:09 -0400 Received: from PO1.Indiana.Edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18366; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:56:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199507031856.AA18366@world.std.com> Received: from PRISM.DECnet by PO1.Indiana.EDU; id AA09035 (5.65c+jsm/2.5.1jsm); Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:45:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 95 13:56:01 EST From: "Mary Ann Danner-Fadae, 812/855-9885" X-To: PO1::"tariqas@world.std.com" Subject: RE: Poor taste and gas pains To: tariqas@world.std.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I'm finally stepping in. When I read the comment about Iran, I just laughed at how idiotic some people can be. God knows that not every Iranian is like that. In fact, my husband is Iranian and I showed it to him, and he just shook his head. He wasn't offended. I think it's time to drop the subject. I usually delete comments that I read on this net that I think are weird or whatever. I don't go around commenting on everything that I agree or disagree with, but this has gotten out of hand. There is anti-Islamic propaganda going around, that's true and it has been the case for years. However, this is hardly one of them. The Muslim world does do stupid things at times, but I'm sure we are all intelligent enough not to generalize from the actions of a few. Life is too short. It's good to laugh at oneself and at the world sometimes. (I wish we could come up with a solution for the poor Bosnians. They are starving to death now. Why not focus our energies on helping them by contacting our elected officials and voicing our concerns for our Muslim brethren there?) Salamat. Majidah From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 15:02:18 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21072; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:02:18 -0400 Received: from po2.indiana.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21053; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:02:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199507031902.AA21053@world.std.com> Received: from LOCAL:.prism.DECnet ([0.0.0.0]) by PO2.Indiana.EDU; id AA28731 (5.67bjsm/2.5.1jsm); Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:00:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 95 14:00:56 EWT From: "Mary Ann Danner-Fadae, 812/855-9885" X-To: PO2::"tariqas@world.std.com" Subject: Re: Anti-Islam propaganda etc To: tariqas@world.std.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Mustafa, Al-salamu `alaykum and very well said! (I'm just getting to some of my e-mail.) Majidah From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 00:18:30 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03304; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:27:37 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03292; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:27:36 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywvd13181; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:27:31 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 12:27:19 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Mon, 3 Jul 95 12:16:53 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 00:18:41 GMT From: Super User To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 00:18:30 GMT+6 Subject: CD review Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Peace be with you "Musical Expeditions Trance 2" CD with 64 page booklet contains a rare 19:37 recording of Afaqi branch of Naqshbandi with Yasawi of Ferghana, recorded by Jean During in Chinese Turkestan. This short fragment of a much longer gathering includes dhikr with cantillated poetry in three segments, one of which is in a 12 beat rhythm, another in a 7 beat rhythm, and another in an eight-beat chahar darb-i dhikr, an all-male assembly. The second track 12:14 features a Touhami dhikr or hadra conducted by Halima Chedli ensemble recorded in 1994 in Sidi Abdelaziz in Marrakech, Morocco, an all-female assembly, followed by Abdenbi Binizi conducting a jinn ceremony for Aisha Qandisha, a water jinn, also recorded in Sidi Abdelaziz in Marrakech, but in 1992. These are healing ceremonies. The third track 24:46 was recorded in west Bali and features rare gamelan performances in temple rituals associated with healing and with a kris ngurek (path of the sword) ceremony. Naqshbandi dhikr ceremonies are often silent, and hence not recordable. The only other two recordings I know of are 3:16 on Bosnia, Voices From An Endangered World, Smithsonian Folkways SF 40407 recorded 1984 released 1994 track #10, and Voices Of The Soul, Chishti Order Of America, a short track, cassette only. Women's hadra recordings are also rare. The only other two I know of are about 5 minutes each, and can be heard on 1977 LPs on Arion label: Le M'zab, Ghardaia oasis ARN33384ADO35 and Sahara Eternel, Metlili and Timimoun oasis ARN33371ADO35, recorded in Algeria. Celebrating 219 years of Freedom of Religion, - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Khadim Chishti khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 08:38:36 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10334; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 16:32:09 -0400 Received: from wizard.Colorado.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10323; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 16:32:08 -0400 Received: from granger.colorado.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01HSFQJOK05C9X468Q@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:31 GMT Date: Mon, 03 Jul 1995 14:38:36 -0600 From: granger_m@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (Mike Granger) Subject: Re: CD review To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HSFQJOK05C9X468Q@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Peace on you, Daniel. I just ordered these 2 "Trance" tapes thru Ellipsis, as well as one on Morrocan music. I can't wait to hear them. Are they worth the money? A.S. Granger >Peace be with you > >"Musical Expeditions Trance 2" CD with 64 page booklet contains >a rare 19:37 recording of Afaqi branch of Naqshbandi with >Yasawi of Ferghana, recorded by Jean During in Chinese Turkestan. >This short fragment of a much longer gathering includes dhikr with >cantillated poetry in three segments, one of which is in a 12 beat >rhythm, another in a 7 beat rhythm, and another in an eight-beat >chahar darb-i dhikr, an all-male assembly. > >The second track 12:14 features a Touhami dhikr or hadra conducted by >Halima Chedli ensemble recorded in 1994 in Sidi Abdelaziz in >Marrakech, Morocco, an all-female assembly, followed by Abdenbi Binizi >conducting a jinn ceremony for Aisha Qandisha, a water jinn, also >recorded in Sidi Abdelaziz in Marrakech, but in 1992. These are >healing ceremonies. > >The third track 24:46 was recorded in west Bali and features rare >gamelan performances in temple rituals associated with healing and >with a kris ngurek (path of the sword) ceremony. > >Naqshbandi dhikr ceremonies are often silent, and hence not >recordable. The only other two recordings I know of are 3:16 on >Bosnia, Voices From An Endangered World, Smithsonian Folkways SF >40407 recorded 1984 released 1994 track #10, and Voices Of The Soul, >Chishti Order Of America, a short track, cassette only. > >Women's hadra recordings are also rare. The only other two I know of >are about 5 minutes each, and can be heard on 1977 LPs on Arion label: >Le M'zab, Ghardaia oasis ARN33384ADO35 and Sahara Eternel, Metlili >and Timimoun oasis ARN33371ADO35, recorded in Algeria. > >Celebrating 219 years of Freedom of Religion, >- Daniel Muzaffer Donnell >-- >Khadim Chishti khadim@forthd.dcl.com > > From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 02:18:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02730; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 17:18:21 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02705; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 17:18:19 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywvl28410; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 17:17:45 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 14:17:27 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Mon, 3 Jul 95 14:17:22 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 02:18:25 GMT From: Super User To: wh@seas.upenn.edu, tariqas@world.std.com, Taj6@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 02:18:17 GMT+6 Subject: re Cathars Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Peace be with you. Well, Hamza asked, but I'm not fascinated by the Cathars. My impression is that they were a Sufi circle that lost connection with their source. Their name probably came from Kauther, the spring of paradise-consciousness mentioned in Holy Qur'an, and their preference for suicide as a more honorable departure from this mortal coil than natural causes could have been an extreme distortion of the hadith / Sufi dictum "Muta kubla anta muta" (my very poor transliteration) or "die before you die". They were the only sect in their region that encouraged their men to grow beards and wear robes, other Islamic characteristics, and their proximity to the Mediterranean would explain more about them than a supposed visit by someone from Bulgaria. The cultural and physical devastation wrought by the celibate male hierarchy of the Christian of the past tosses most inquiries about religious and spiritual practice of that time & space into the realm of utter specualtion aggravated by a handful of tantalizing clues. In the search for bizarre esotericism, we may be overlooking some well- preserved and extremely valuable spiritual treasures that are accessible, such as the writings of Ibn Abbad of Rhonda and Ibn al- 'Arabi and many others whose influences were known and who were in turn highly significant influences upon Western thought. I mean, the European "Renaissance" would not have happened if not for Muslim academies, colleges, libraries, translation centers, scriptoriums, navigation schools, etc etc. - celebrating 219 years of Freedom of Religion Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Khadim Chishti khadim@forthd.dcl.com From GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Mon Jul 3 14:52:00 1995 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10330; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 18:52:37 -0400 Received: from CCMAIL.SUNYSB.EDU by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQywvr02823; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 18:52:36 -0400 From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V4.3-7 #8051) id <01HSFZM3QV4GQPGR55@ccmail.sunysb.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 18:52:00 EDT Date: Mon, 03 Jul 1995 18:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HSFZM3R4RMQPGR55@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas-approval@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 03-Jul-1995 01:52pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: "A.N. Durkee" ( _tariqas-approval@world.std.com ) Subject: RE: as-salamu alaykum, ANDurkee writes: Remember, "there are those for who al-madhi has come and those who are still waiting just as there are those for whom the day of judgement is ..." Thank you for your post. Do you remember who said the above statement? Fouad From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 03:01:08 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13749; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:02:10 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13730; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:02:09 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywvs12072; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:02:02 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 16:01:36 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Mon, 3 Jul 95 15:00:06 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 03:01:19 GMT From: Super User To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 03:01:08 GMT+6 Subject: is your name here? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Peace be with you, and the mercy and blessings of the One 'just back from being out-of-town, Mailserver is up again, and I'm in a mood for keying after plowing through 200+ messages. Jabriel Hanafi: I love you! Watermelon eaters: A male religious figure of Egypt recommended this year that women not serve zucchini to their families, as the shape of the vegetable and the act of slicing them is, well, suggestive. Now, like the watermelon story, the Western press can turn this into fodder for ridiculing Islam, but if this is what is going on in the world of Islam, covering it up is not a good idea either. As Islam expands rapidly in the West, there exists a fresh possibility it can be promoted in its purest and noblest form, free of the distortions and accretions that have accrued to it over 14+ centuries. TV watchers: Bigotry and religious prejudice have existed far longer than the mere 50 years TV has been around. Peter Pflaum: Congratulations to you, sir, for exceeding all of us in self-effacement in your work, sincerely. Every time I read one of your postings, I have a somewhat clearer impression of your work in general systems, but no increase in understanding you personally. Siddiq Kevin O'Malley: Some of the 12 Steps are directly parallel to Sufi / Islam, especially the principles of acknowledging there is a higher Power than human existence and surrendering to that Power. Mustafa: Sufism is indeed "coming into the public eye wholesale", also, to put a spin on your phrase, retail and mass-marketed. No doubt Sufism in the West will become commercialized and watered-down, and the secret will continue to protect itself. Michael Moore: Muslims within polar regions coordinate their noon prayer with the apogee of the sun's ellipse and other prayer times accordingly, or follow Meccan time. There is an atoll in the Pacific opposite the Ka'bah in Mecca, I think Murarota or Rarotonga, upon which as in the Ka'bah a Muslim can pray in any direction and still follow sunna. Man, I think you are kidding us with these questions: how is YOUR salat going? Elias & Satya: Ziraat means "the act of planting". When Inayat Khan came to the West, he was pretty much horrified by what humans were subjected to in industrial / urban society, including child labor, seven day workweeks, 14 hour days, deaths in mines and factories, abuse of women, assembly lines, and so on. He recommended that his murids contact nature after noticing that many of them never touched earth or felt rain. This degenerated into emphasis upon a ritual of the elements: forget the ritual for a while, and go and experience the miracle of dirt turning into food with the interplay of air, water, and sun, and how this food can be turned into ever-ascending vehicles of awareness of the Divine Presence. I'm not sure, but Inayat may have established Ziraat as one of the five aspects of his work after meeting Luther Burbank. Fouad Haddad: A special salam, akhi. There is an interesting work by Ibn al-'Arabi that discusses Allah's wisdom and perhaps necessity in creating different religions. It is titled "Ibn Al-'Arabi and the Problem of Religious Diversity" by William Chittick, SUNY '94 0-7914- 2150-X. He also discusses human perfectability and the world of imagination in this work. The rewards of paradise: Symbolism...wide-eyed means all-seeing, bright means light-filled, maidenly means innocent. Paradise is a state of consciousness, not a place filled with spiritual whores. Our state in that station is in accordance with Allah's generosity, and such symbolism describes our existence in that realm. And, if Allah wishes Fabio to have an abode in paradise-consciousness, may Fabio be blessed thusly. Abdullah Hicksvilli: Thank you for the story of your mother, and many blessings (and if I may, prayers too) upon you both. Yes, Allah is the Reality behind all "realities". In a perfect creation, nothing can be left out, as omission is a flaw, and although we would prefer a creation without pain and suffering, we cannot limit Allah's necessary expression. The suffering your mother endured may have brought into play compassion and service that would not have existed otherwise, and it may also have given her an opportunity to really know a change was imminent: having been in direct patient care for over twelve years myself, and having been close to much suffering, it sounds like she was not permitted any possibility of denial or sudden surprises, these too are disguised gifts. Words are inadequate. Love is eternal. Bob Olhsson: There are theocracies other than governmental ones. America is on the brink of one now, and its armed factions are already killing doctors, stripping libraries, and seeking more governmental influence. Tom, George, and Benjy: Thanks for 219 years of Freedom Of Religion! Carol Sage: Your file did not get through. Please try again, we are really interested in hearing from you! Anybody else: I love you too! Drive safely. - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Khadim Chishti khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 03:26:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13847; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:02:23 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13838; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:02:22 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywvs12107; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:02:19 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 16:02:02 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Mon, 3 Jul 95 15:24:20 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Mon, 03 Jul 1995 03:26:09 GMT From: Super User To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 03:26:01 GMT+6 Subject: response to hamza Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Peace be with you, Hamza, and any other readers. When masters initially attain a state in which the limitations of time and space are transcended, they may have a strong and vivid impression of eternality, which may translate into a sense that the end of the realm of cause-and-effect is imminent. Mystics who are not prepared for such an experience may convey to their disciples a real sense of urgency about such things: this is not in itself bad or wrong, and it is probably a good idea to live each day as if it is our Day of Reckoning, but sometimes some vestigial remnant of the ego's lust for destruction puts a slightly weird nuance on the message, like forecasts of doom and catastrophe. Apocalypse means prophetic, not catastrophic. - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Khadim Chishti khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 15:24:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22369; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:24:55 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22356; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:24:54 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA096463894; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:24:54 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:24:54 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <950703192453_24695839@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Allah's 'human' characteristics? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >ref to Surah 112 on unity I have read this surah now, and notice it is entitled Purity, even though it certainly seems that Unity is at least as appropriate a title. Is the purity here the purity of "pure soap" or "pure butter" meaning not at all mixed with anything else? (this would be a non-moralistic sense of the word pure). thank you for your response. in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Mon Jul 3 15:31:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14441; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 20:25:52 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14425; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 20:25:51 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by relay1.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQywvu15750; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:32:59 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA027984306; Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:31:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:31:46 -0400 Message-Id: <950703193145_24700304@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: re Cathars Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: to Daniel thank you for your comments about the Cathars. I see my hunch that they were connected with the Sufis is not off the wall. I simply marvel at the culture that was happening at that time in that part of the world, with an interconnectedness between those coming to use the language, framework, metaphors of different related "religious" traditions, and nourish one another. may there be freedom of religion and this sort of vital sharing not sporadically in the world, as a aberration from the more usual pattern of killing and war and hatred of those different, but where this species of ours comes to. insh'allah. again, thank you for your informative response. in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 05:34:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24875; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 17:22:40 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24860; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 17:22:39 -0400 Received: from ix7.ix.netcom.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywyw02634; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 15:36:34 -0400 Received: from by ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id MAA11467; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 12:34:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 12:34:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199507041934.MAA11467@ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: hu@ix.netcom.com (steve supreme) Subject: Re: Correct Zikrs To: tariqas@world.std.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: You wrote: > > > >> >>Dear Folks >> Reading over the current postings especially in regard >>to various versions of Zikr, makes me wonder what is the basis of Sufi >>universal tolerance. All comes from God, and all returns to God. >> At the risk of being deluged with criticism, surely the >>Sufi Message is based on being able to see through all the differences of >>form and appearance and recognize the underlying Divine Light within all >>forms and appearances. >> My intention in sending my e-mail message regarding >>Zikr is that since my own Murshid has passed away from this illusory physical >>plane, and since he never taught me some of the Zikr practices current among >>both offshhoots of Murshid's lineage, I was hoping to elicit some response >>about correct etiquette. >> I wish to apologize for even having sent the e-mail, >>since it is the saddest thing to see "Sufis" fight over of all things the >>correct way of invoking the prescence of Love, Harmony and Beauty. >> I will never send such an enquiry again. I had >>believed that most of us have by now understood Murshid's story about the >>children fighting over whose Mother is best. Murshid's response "THE Mother" >>is Best. >> I wish to apologize to all of you for having made the >>posting . Murshid worked laboriously to help bring us all closer to each >>other, and I am deeply saddened that my own thoughtless action may have had >>the opposite effect. I am learning from the old Wisdom which says better to >>keep a wise silence than say something foolish. >> Toward the One >> from Elias >> Dear Elias, I do not feel that your question had the power to separate people or produce conflict. Its only power was in its ability to expose a pre-existing condition, and for that, all involved can be grateful. A main purpose of zikr is the annihilation of illusion(delusion). It follows that your letter was a great introduction for those wishing to practice zikr. steve From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 06:03:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25334; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 17:23:38 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25315; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 17:23:37 -0400 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQywyy15019; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 16:01:30 -0400 Received: from Moresby.IslandNet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0sTEBj-000L1ZC; Tue, 4 Jul 95 13:03 PDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 4 Jul 95 13:03 PDT X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Qahhar Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: QAHHAR IN SHA ALLAH MA SHA ALLAH Dive within life's varied dreams and wake. There the pearl of who you are sits it softly radiates and waits for a response. Let your mind become the sea a cosmic ocean liberating and floating in eternity IN SHA ALLAH MA SHA ALLAH surrender life's inequity and choose to bow before your Lord Sublime and wash the rust with the sound Ya Qahhar Ya Qahhar The wrath of will, the accuser and accused shall disappear, was never there, the veils shall drop disease and famine, wars and pain human suffering will all explain the generations of deep devotion from make believe monsters trick or treat caricatures playing in a carnal carnival in a world of shattered images, mirrors and of games IN SHA ALLAH MA SHA ALLAH paradise is right here my friends IN SHA ALLAH MA SHA ALLAH Allah is as close as our jugalar vain ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 11:56:39 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00341; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 17:34:02 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00328; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 17:34:00 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQywyx04818; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 15:57:53 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA007307799; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 15:56:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 15:56:39 -0400 Message-Id: <950704155525_107775720@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Correct Zikrs Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >when is a Q appropriate? one such measure: will the answer be for the benefit of the unfoldment of the divine plan or purpose (as best as i can see it?) or not? do you use similar yardsticks? let me second the thought that a sufi forum, this forum perhaps, be a place for mutual encouragement and for the manifestation of caring good-will (love). as for yardsticks: I have personally found it rather difficult to figure out what my next moment of awareness will reveal to me, let alone what the divine plan is. so that puts me in the position of not wanting to put to much reliance on such considerations: my ignorance is cosmic here! (nor have I ever met anyone whose words on what the divine purpose might be came even close to being free of some rather intense conditioning = limiting = nondivine mind-set. I do not mean this to insult anyone or any tradition.) I hope we can all accept that we might be in God (reality, Allah, ... ) as a mere drop in the ocean, but that even before us and after we are each and all dust once again, God/Reality/Allah/Natura will not be limited to the dust that we will have become .... my point is not to define what the divine plan is here, but to answer what yardstick might be present: and one that I see can work on the human plane (and our relatively limited range of perception about what is going on) is the measure of whether our actions are causing torment and anguish to ourselves and others, or whether our actions are like buoys to the soul. I sometimes call the latter skillful actions. In this way, insulting, spitting on, throwing rocks at, hitting, stabbing, killing, bombing and such are massively unskillful. (I mean these as an intensifying series, not as equivalent.) in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 16:58:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15678; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 20:57:52 -0400 Received: from freenet2.scri.fsu.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15663; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 20:57:50 -0400 Received: (from pflaump@localhost) by freenet2.scri.fsu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id UAA27284; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 20:58:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 20:58:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Pflaum Subject: Re: What is the news? To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <950701175516_106274331@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I too have turned off the TV - "Peter E. Pflaum, Ph.D. Institute for Human Resources (904) 428-9609 pflaump@mail.firn.edu pflaump@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu" http://194.231.135.64 Global Village Enterprises From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 17:08:31 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18708; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:07:40 -0400 Received: from freenet2.scri.fsu.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18697; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:07:37 -0400 Received: (from pflaump@localhost) by freenet2.scri.fsu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id VAA27401; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:08:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Pflaum Subject: RE: suggestion and clarification To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <01HSFD7R9P009X447B@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: The voice in text may sound like it is not in the soul, head, heart - so easy to misunerstand. The distractions noise and other clouds the visions of those not there - What can I say - "Peter E. Pflaum, Ph.D. Institute for Human Resources (904) 428-9609 pflaump@mail.firn.edu pflaump@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu" http://194.231.135.64 Global Village Enterprises From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 17:16:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20907; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:15:28 -0400 Received: from freenet2.scri.fsu.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20899; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:15:25 -0400 Received: (from pflaump@localhost) by freenet2.scri.fsu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id VAA27687; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:16:20 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:16:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Pflaum Subject: Re: suggestion and clarification To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <950703134039_107133406@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: "Peter E. Pflaum, Ph.D. Institute for Human Resources (904) 428-9609 pflaump@mail.firn.edu pflaump@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu" http://194.231.135.64 Global Village Enterprises PFLAUMP@freenet.scri.fsu.edu RE: God, does he/she believe in me; The Sufi way is tricky, you appear different to different people and in different situations. This is the way of a guide or teacher. I am safe and comfortable being who I am, but you (the others) have expectations and needs. To need is to expect, to expect is to demand. How am I to live up to your needs, your demands, your expectations? God is the same. He is mysterious. He/She is very comfortable being what he is. He/She has no way of meeting all my needs, satisfying all my demands, or coming up to all my expectations. I have to take care of myself. God loves me but like a good parent or teacher, encourages me to do the best I can, be on my own. So I do with students. I can't do the work for them. God can't live my life for me. We have tasted the forbidden fruit and have gained judgement. To judge is to be in error, and to live with mistakes. I'm only human. God was here before me. I put myself in relationship to God. All existence is the face of God. I care to understand and be understood. I am complex, I live in many roles and have more than one face. Teacher, father, husband, citizen. gardener, sailor, writer, thinker, materialist, greedy, faker, fraud, pretender, dreamer, lover, I run away, I hide, I do a little dance, I sin against my better self. I fail to that which I know I "should". I live in the Dream Time, I live in the "real world", I live in my scull. Who am I, you want to know. How can I tell you. I am no one and everyman. God does all these same things. I am in God and God in me. First understand, then be understood. Holy Mary mother of God the father, the Son and Holy Spirit, be with us now and in the hour of our death. Something we are not meant to understand but are mysteries. They are beyond words. I have a deep appreciation for the mystery of existence. I have been here for fifteen billion years. The Adam of my atoms, the sound of the harmony of the universe has been with me from creation. I did not come from nothing and when the voice is quiet, I return to where I came from. I do not expect or demand from my God and He/she gives freely to me. All the sense of time itself, the awareness of great glory. These are free gifts of our creator, manna from heaven. God does not judge me, for who am I to be judged. He lets me be and hopes for the best. If I pay very close attention, clear my brain and soul of distraction, I can come into the great love of God. It surround me with light and love. The glory of the heavens surround me. The wonder of the world, the rain and wind, the spirits of the living planet whisper in my ear. Does it matter what I believe? I know the love of God and the spirit of heaven. My ideas are only sound and furies, signify nothing. Quiet my restless soul and tinkered voice - quiet - and listen - open your ears, - open you eyes and see- really see - clearly - Plant your feet into the soil - be there quiet restless soul and you will know God and God will know you. I was with my father the day he died. It was in a small hotel in Alicante. We were alone. His last words were "I don't want to die." Oh might Ceasar! dost thou lie so low? Are are thy conquest, glories, triumphs, spoils, Shrunk to this little measure? ..die many time before their death, the valiant never taste of death but once. ..Seeing that death is a necessaey end, Will come when it will come. ************************************************************ Peter E. Pflaum Ph.D. * THE_SUFI_METHODS 225 Robinson Road, New Smyrna Beach * IN THE WORLD - FL 32169-2176 (904) 428-9609 * BUT NOT OF THE WORLD * LIVING THE COVENANT WE HAVE WITH: GAEA, GODDESS OF A SUSTAINABLE EARTH * PFLAUMP@freenet.scri.fsu.edu ZEN IS THE ART OF GETTING YOURSELF OUT OF YOUR FACE ************************************************************ PPPPPPPPf From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 18:35:50 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20107; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:35:52 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20091; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:35:51 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA02062 ; for ; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:35:50 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:35:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Correct Zikrs In-Reply-To: <950704155525_107775720@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 4 Jul 1995 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > (nor have I ever met anyone whose words on what the divine purpose might be > came even close to being free of some rather intense conditioning = limiting > = nondivine mind-set. I do not mean this to insult anyone or any tradition.) Yeah, that Muhammed fellow sure said a lot things subject to "rather intense conditioning," like Jesus too. Of course, you yourself are free of such conditioning, so you can recognize when others are intensely conditioned. And, of ccourse, you don't intend to insult anybody... From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 18:59:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28701; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:59:14 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28689; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:59:13 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA03940 ; for ; Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:59:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Moreon TV and Siddi Issa In-Reply-To: <199507031624.MAA152283@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 3 Jul 1995, A.N. Durkee wrote: > > then it will turn around and come from the other direction as something > totally real. i would suggest reading the Signs of the Times {alamtu-s-sa'} > in the Book of Fitan in various collections of ahadith and remember the > following. > Yes, perahaps, but who really knows all the particulars about how it will "turn around." The idea that it would be on TV is just another guess, and not all that interesting a guess, with all due respect. > "there are those who are waiting for al-mahdi and there are those for whom > al-mahdi has come just as there are those who are waiting for the day of > judgement and there are those for whom the day of judgement has come and > gone." > > i only told the story of the wali to open up another way of seeing, another > way of looking at things. > The words above about the mahhdi are dead-on, but then if you believe this, it does not, IMHO, seem necessary to get into speculations about Jesus on TV. It was, after all, your line of speculation, not mine. This also applies to your expressed reason above for telling us this story. Please forgive me for dotting all the i's and crossing the t's, I mean no harm, but I am trying to understand your words. > if being is only real when i am then tv or not tv is hardly the question. Well, I guess I am a bit thick, and don't get the very last point above. But all I was trying to say is we should not look very hard at phenomenal things - no matter how dramatic or supernatural - for reasons Guenon, whose writings I think you know, has very very well elucidated and which dosen't need a lot of repetition here. As salamu alaikum.. From tariqas-approval Tue Jul 4 20:01:20 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18148; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 00:01:23 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18123; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 00:01:21 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA082596880; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 00:01:20 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 00:01:20 -0400 From: ASHA101@aol.com Message-Id: <950705000120_25456070@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Correct, correct, correct - lets get this correct! Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Abdkabir, re:from Jinvasam.. > (nor have I ever met anyone whose words on what the divine purpose might be > came even close to being free of some rather intense conditioning = limiting ..... >.. followed by your... I'm not sure I understand your comment. Is this an angry comment? Are you suggesting that Jinavamsa has met the people you mentioned and is now insulting them? Actually I thought that Jinavamsa was giving an example of what he uses as a measureing rod. It is interesting to me to see what Sufi's use as measuring rods. How do the various sufi groups go about judging truth, (A) the truth as they experience it and (B) the truth as it comes out of themselves. That is to say, in philosophic terms, how do you know. I thought that what J. had to say was very appropriate in that this very subject has been the source of several insults. Sometimes, what we do is out of our control although for a master it is much more "predictable" than it might be who is not a master. Why is that, and how is that, is another subject, but did J. not go to the heart of Elais's conundrum/conflict ? Does it not also bring in the question of wether Elias' question brought about the insult or wether that came from another sourse. It is an ethical question is it not. To me it was a wonderful answer but your posting left me puzzeling. Is it you or is it me that interpreted his message in the light of some sort of bias that may be lurking over our respective heads. Maybe it is all just a mistake and you thought that he had the intention to insult the prophets or perhaps I have missed read something. I admit that the latter is quite possible, but I just wanted to clear up what looks to me like ill feeling for no good reason. I think that Elias was trying to clear up the ill feeling also. So, my brother, how in the world can we do this? and p.s. I am interested in internal measuring rods Asha From tariqas-approval Wed Jul 5 02:09:05 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14728; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 01:10:07 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14699; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 01:10:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 01:10:05 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Correct Zikrs To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199507041347.AA15063@lafn.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. Elias, from my perspective, you can only be responsible for following your heart in deciding what to post in this group. If you avoid posting something because of concern that somebody might "jump" on it, you are not being true to yourself, or to Allah's wishes for you. This does not mean you should be tactless -- just that you should share anything you are drawn to share, and keep silent when and if that feels like the right thing to do. Yours, habib rose > > I wish to apologize for even having sent the e-mail, > >since it is the saddest thing to see "Sufis" fight over of all things the > >correct way of invoking the prescence of Love, Harmony and Beauty. > > I will never send such an enquiry again. I had > >believed that most of us have by now understood Murshid's story about the > >children fighting over whose Mother is best. Murshid's response "THE Mother" > >is Best. > > I wish to apologize to all of you for having made the > >posting . Murshid worked laboriously to help bring us all closer to each > >other, and I am deeply saddened that my own thoughtless action may have had > >the opposite effect. I am learning from the old Wisdom which says better to > >keep a wise silence than say something foolish. > > Toward the One > > from Elias > > > > > From tariqas-approval Wed Jul 5 02:24:19 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18700; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 01:25:21 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18691; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 01:25:19 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 01:25:19 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: New WWW interface for the tariqas ftp archive To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. Ceci, who has been supporting tariqas for years by hosting our ftp archive, has just put together a WWW interface at: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~ceci/tariqas.html Please check it out, and give her and/or me some feedback on how its organized. You might also want to thank her for all her hard work :-) Her address is ceci@lysator.liu.se mine is habib@world.std.com Yours, habib rose P.S. I just want to share my feelings about this amazing Internet. I live in Seattle, Washington. The account I use to host the tariqas list, the World system, is in Massachusetts. Ceci is in Sweden. Participants in tariqas are on almost every continent (although it would be nice to have more participants from Africa and the Middle East, Insh'Allah). And we share together every day. Wonderful!!!