From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Tue Sep 3 21:35:44 1996 Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:55:09 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #119 tariqas-digest Monday, 2 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 119 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred Rice Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:42:03 +1000 (EST) Subject: re: Paraclete #1 (long) Dear Nur, Assalamu alaikum, On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, Gale wrote: > PS: by the way Fariduddein, there seems to be no such word as periklytos. I have also (just then) seen it written as Periklutos, which means "Praised one." Insha-Allah, I will present a summary of the viewpoint of some Muslims regarding the "Paraclete" in the Gospel of John, with the disclaimer that I ain't no expert in none of this. :) This isn't to "preach," or even to claim it is necessarily true (though I must admit, with my limited knowledge, it does seem to me to be a possibiliy). Rather it is because I personally find it an interesting topic. :) Wassalam, Fariduddien ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:09:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Paraclete #1 (long) Hello, folks! Fred Rice wrote: > > Dear Nur, Assalamu alaikum, > > On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, Gale wrote: > > > PS: by the way Fariduddein, there seems to be no such word as periklytos. > > I have also (just then) seen it written as Periklutos, which means > "Praised one." > > Insha-Allah, I will present a summary of the viewpoint of some Muslims > regarding the "Paraclete" in the Gospel of John, with the disclaimer > that I ain't no expert in none of this. :) Fariduddien, it will be interesting to read what you come up with... considering the Gospel of Thomas, comparing its cosmology with that of Gospel of John, and then considering that the other three Gospels don't even mention the Paraclete, we have lots of possibilities, so many as to boggle the mind. On the other hand, since "all is true, but nothing real" we can have a good time with tossing the intellect around. Carry on, dear one! Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:01:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Evolution and God Hello, everybody! Asim Jalis wrote: > > I read the following story on the Jewish parenting newsgroup. One of > people on the newsgroup was trying to teach his son about God from a > young age. So he would play a game with him in the car. He would ask > him who made the sun, who made the sky, who made him. And the answer > to all these things would be: God. Or he would ask, who had made the > boy's sandwich, and the answer would be: his mother. One day as they > went through the game he asked him who had made the New York subway. > The boy immediately said God, since he couldn't imagine something so > huge and complex not being made by God. > > But in a way the boy was right. God did make the New York subway. As > he made the internet. I hope we all agree that the coincidence of an > internet arising from some dumb diodes and telephone lines is simply > too remarkable to be mere chance. > Asim Asim, when you look at Ray of Creation, levels coming from Will of Absolute, and realize that God is in us all, is all, then it is easy to see that God does make everything, has done it through the mystery of Desire. Though humans have "free will" we are still an aspect of God getting to know self through Self... Thanks for your wonderful posts, tanzen ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:13:33 +0800 Subject: Re: a meeting place Assalamualaikum Aurangzeb, i used to roam IRC before joining tariqas, the one memorabale experience is about a muslim in brazil disucussing religion with a pakistani in #pakistan. I also used to frequent the #wicca channel ... but ... there's to much /action/ and joking around, play-acting etc. I also remembered a friendly #christian channel. I have retired from IRC since then. If you are serious setting #tariqa in IRC one thing I suggest is to put a bot that can provide messages or announcement of any activity related to sufism. In this way, #tariqa (even if it is empty) can still be a useful place. best wishes maarof On Mon, 02 Sep 96, malik@uni-muenster.de (Aurangseb Malik) wrote: >Asalamoaleikum everyone. > >I think this mailing list is a real fine thing, >but as i am concerned i have the need for more >'interactive' exchange as well. > >I'd love to talk with people on sufi path, learn and grow, >in a world wide web, as i can't share the telepathic one yet :) > >So my suggestion is to set an online meeting place, on one >of the smaller and faster IRCs (Internet Releay Chat Networks) > >channel #tariqas would be a fine thing, on servers >irc.superlink.net, irc2.superlink.net >superlink network is especially well designated because there are already >open minded 'spiritual' people of various pathes meeting there on channels >#bridge and #spirit*home. > >It would even be possible to schedule teaching events with a >Shaykh..... but i am dreaming. IRC is a fascinating media :-) > >What do you think? > > Aorangzeb. > >--- >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Aurangseb Malik * Josef Beckmann Str. 9 * 48159 Muenster * Germany >Phone ++49+251-218236 * email malik@uni-muenster.de >to receive my PGP public key mail me with subject 'keyrequest' >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 01:12:45 +0800 Subject: Re: Evolution and God On Mon, 2 Sep 96, Asim wrote: [...] > >But in a way the boy was right. God did make the New York subway. As >he made the internet. I hope we all agree that the coincidence of an >internet arising from some dumb diodes and telephone lines is simply >too remarkable to be mere chance. > > Asim Talking about coincidence, there are hadiths concerning Dajjal and one of his abilities is to see and hear things far away -- a "remarkable" coincidence with internet. In this scenario, the hadiths mentioned about people going to mountain to be safe from Dajjal's influence. Why? - -- maarof ------------------------------ From: Rabia Kathleen Seidel Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 14:26:38 -0400 Subject: New Additions to Threshold Web Site -- September 1996 In the name of God, the Infinitely Compassionate and Merciful Dear Friends, Threshold Society has recently added new material to its web site. It can be reached via either of these addresses: http://www.webcom.com/threshld/ http://www.sufism.org/ These include: The Threshold Society monthly theme for September 1996 A guide to Salaat, including transliterations and English translations of the prayers, and of fourteen passages from the Qur'an Lyrics to Threshold's illahis Camille Helminski's article "Women and Sufism" Refik Algan's article "The Dream of the Sleeper" The Gnosis interview with Refik Algan Technical information on the web site In service, Rabia Kathleen Seidel ------------------------------ From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:50:06 -0400 Subject: Re: The Book hello Asim and all, I suspect that there will be some who might reply to your posting with the suggestion that you just flow with life and stop trying to organize it so much. that's not what I'm writing to say. It seems that it is important for you to have all of these issues organized, and through your sticking with the question you posed, and through not attacking yourself, this perseverence has led to a solution to your problem. Congratulations! I hope it works smoothly for you now, having all of the sub-concerns ready for when you will want to return to them, to see what to do next. Rather than classifying your solution as *either* really brilliant *or* really stupid, I would suggest, instead: rather elegant. in peace, Jinavamsa .... oh, I see that one of the names of Truth/Reality/Allah describes the process of completing that which is incomplete: al-Jabbaar. In a message dated 96-09-02 02:19:22 EDT, you write: >Subj: The Book >Date: 96-09-02 02:19:22 EDT >From: jalis@math.wisc.edu (Asim Jalis) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@europe.std.com >To: tariqas@world.std.com > >There is a problem I have been working on for some time, >which is this: how to organize lists and tables of >information. There are: a list of books that I want to read, >a list of groups that I want to join, a set of rules on how >to prepare for a run, a set of rules on how to control one's >mind, a list of things I can cook, and so on. The essense of >the problem: how to allocate space in a book for finite >categories within which all information could be classified >and yet remain flexible and efficient. > >Finally the answer occurred to me in the bookstore a few >days ago. This will either seem really brilliant or really >stupid. > >This is the scheme that I am following. I bought an address >book so it has a page for each letter of the alphabet. And >then I put my lists/tables under a category on the page that >has the letter of a possible name for the category. Like on >"B" I have the list of books that I want to read. On "G" I >have the list of groups that I want to join. And so on. >Finally, on the first page I have a table that contains the >mapping between the letters and the categories. > >Asim > > > ------------------------------ From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:50:08 -0400 Subject: Song of Songs (short) [was Re: Paraclete #1 (long) hello Zainuddin and all, In a message dated 96-09-02 09:35:11 EDT, sham@po.pacific.net.sg (Zainuddin Ismail) writes .... <<>>>: >But even before anything else Deuteronomy's prophecy of Muhammad interesting: where in Deuternomy is this found? what is way in which Muhammad is referred to (name or description, in Hebrew)? >coming from Paran and with 10,000 saints is repeated in the Song of Solomon >which describes the beloved with raven-black hair and with ruddy complexion >and again with the 10,000 companions. In Song of Songs (Song of Solomon), I find this description at 5:10-16, but no mention of 10,000 anything. What passage are you thinking of? >And remember when Muhammad re-entered >Mecca and conquered it in the most bloodless conquest in history , he was may this style of conquest of his be a message for all mankind >accompanied with the 10,000 saints and all the while he was praying ,with >head hung low in Submission to Allah Almighty.And if you were to go further >into the original Hebrew in the Song of Solomon you will find his name in >Hebrew form of Muhammadim shortly after the opening words of Ya Banat >Yereshalam O Daughters of Jerusalem...... if I may, one last question here: I do not find Ya Banat Yereshalam O Daughters of Jerusalem in the Song of Songs of Solomon. What I do find, repeatedly, is the expressopm Daughters of Jerusalem, which in the Hebrew reads b'not Y'rushala'im (at 2:7, 3:5, 5:8, 5:16), with no Ya preceding in any of these cases. Which passage are you thinking of? And what is the Hebrew form of Muhammad (Muhammadim=?) very interesting practice, looking back to see indications of the later teachings in earlier teachings. in peace, Jinavamsa ------------------------------ From: Jim Bier Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 16:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sabri Brothers Is UNCA University of North Carolina at Asheville? jim On Sat, 31 Aug 1996, John Womack wrote: > Greetings All. Our local paper tells of the " ... Sabri Brothers, a > popular Pakistani musical performance group, will bring its mystical tones > of Qawwali, the devotional music of the Sufi sect of Islam, to UNCA ..." on > 30 October. I have not heard of them, and I wondered if anyone on the list > might like to make a comment concerning them? John. > > ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:42:29 +0100 Subject: Re: New Additions to Threshold Web Site -- September 1996 Dear Rabia Kathleen Seidel: Thankyou for telling me this information about the Threshold Web Site. I copied the Salaat, so I could learn this. I read the articles on woman also which was really interesting. There are a few words I am not familiar with like what is a rakat (or rakats, for example: "I intend to offer the 4 rakats of the Isha prayer ... What is Isha prayer also. This is in reference to Salaat (niyyat)? Anyway it was very good article on Salaat. Anyone offering help to me on this will be gratefully appreciated. Kaffea Lalla > > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 16:27:52 -0700 Subject: Re: New Additions to Threshold Web Site -- September 1996 Hello, folks! Rabia Kathleen Seidel wrote: > Threshold Society has recently added new material to its web site. > It can be reached via either of these addresses: > > http://www.webcom.com/threshld/ > http://www.sufism.org/ Thanks for the info, Rabia. Here are a few lines I saved from the web pages: Preserved by Hazrati Ali (Sayings of the Muhammad): Meditation in God is my capital. Reason and sound logic are the root of my existence. Love is the foundation of my existence. Enthusiasm is the vehicle of my life. Contemplation of Allah is my companion. Faith is the source of my power. Sorrow is my friend. Knowledge is my weapon. Patience is my clothing and virtue. Submission to the Divine Will is my pride. Truth is my salvation. Worship is my habit. And in prayer lies the coolness of my eye and my peace of mind. More sayings (selected and translated by Kabir Helminski): You will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Let me guide you to something in the doing of which you will love one another. Give a greeting to everyone among you. I was delegated as a prophet to perfect moral virtues. Good character is half of faith. God is merciful to those who show mercy to others. Power consists not in being able to strike another, but in being able to control oneself when anger arises. Honor your children and thus improve their manners. Some very powerful stuff! Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: malik@uni-muenster.de (Aurangseb Malik) Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 01:11:02 Subject: a meeting place & IRC Info Asalamoaleikum, >>i used to roam IRC before joining tariqas, the one memorabale experience >>is about a muslim in brazil disucussing religion with a pakistani in >>#pakistan. I also used to frequent the #wicca channel ... but ... there's >>to much /action/ and joking around, play-acting etc. I also remembered a >>friendly #christian channel. I know on efnet (the one where there is #wicca and other channels) most folks isn't very serious. That is why i suggest to the far smaller superlink net. (And there are less splits and lags!) Additionally superlink can provide a channel service bot, which will take care of the channel. There are several clients for Windows. I believe the most famous one is called mIRC, look out in FTP lists. There is at least one client for Mac's, but i am sorry i do not know the name. Several clients exist for OS/2: GTIRC, IRCII, etc... And of course there is the good old original IRCII for UNIX users. Be careful, IRC can be very addictive when you meet nice people :) To join this net use the following servers in your client setup: irc.superlink.net, irc2.superlink.net channel #tariqas Stay on this channel for a while to enlarge the chance to meet other people - while visiting other interesting places like #spirit*home & #bridge. Aorangzeb. - --- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Aurangseb Malik * Josef Beckmann Str. 9 * 48159 Muenster * Germany Phone ++49+251-218236 * email malik@uni-muenster.de to receive my PGP public key mail me with subject 'keyrequest' - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:44:44 -0700 Subject: re: Paraclete #1 As-salaam aleikum Zainuddin, So, responding to your post. > Firstly it is Christian belief that Jesus a.s was strengthened by the Holy > Ghost which he gave up according to the Bible when he was on the > cross.So it could not be that he was referring to the coming of the Holy > Ghost at some future date when it was already present. Please reread my earlier post with the thought in mind of the identity of characters being made in Jesus's discourse, and also in light of circular associations being made between past, present and future. Also remember that this is a discourse that Jesus is giving to his disciples for their spiritual benefit. You may find that both points are being confirmed. The Gospel of John by the way, as well as the Gospel of Luke, was probably written in Greek, so it's not a question of having to deal with it being a translation from an earlier Hebrew or Aramaic text. > Secondly earlier Sects believed in the coming of a human being who is the > Paraclete or whatever name is used by Jesus whether quoted in the Bible or > twisted because of the vagaries of time etc. Zainuddin, unless you specify what sects you are referring to, this is a meaningless statement. There have been 1000s of Christian sects, most of them were founded by megalomaniacs. Earlier, i had stated that Mani, the founder of Manichaeism in the early AD 200s, made claims of being the paraclete promised by Jesus. Mani was a remarkable being in his own right. So there were personal claims by individuals saying they were the paraclete and sects arose around them, but i don't know of any community that actually awaited the coming of the paraclete other than Christians who await for Christ's return. But when i think of those sects, or schools of Christian thought and mysticism which had or may have had some ties to the Apostolic tradition -- meaning a connection with lineages of Jesus's apostles -- we only find the expectation of Jesus's return and nothing of the paraclete as a human being except for the identity between Jesus and the paraclete in a trinitarian context. By those sects i mean the Alexandrian community which includes Clement and Origen (and Jerome during his early life), the western Valentinians who claim that Valentinus received his doctrine from one of Paul's disciples named Theudas, the Syrian lines of Thomas, the Pseudo-Dionysian corpus which includes Sergius of Reshma which claims apostolic transmission from Paul, the sect of Basilides who claimed to be a student of Peter's interpreter Glaucias. I do not doubt that there are distortions in the Christian scriptures as a result of either intentional changes, faulty transcription and/or translation, rearrangement, removal, additions, all of these or some. But i don't know with any degree of certainty where in Christians's scriptures these distortions are to be found amidst all that may be accurate. And i don't believe anyone else knows with absolute certainty either. > Thirdly then comes Al Amin As Sadiq the Honest and Truthful One who > claims clearly that he is the one prophesied by Jesus... But even before anything > else Deuteronomy's prophecy of Muhammad coming from Paran and with 10,000 > saints is repeated in the Song of Solomon which describes the beloved with raven- > black hair and with ruddy complexion and again with the 10,000 companions.And > remember when Muhammad re-entered Mecca and conquered it in the most > bloodless conquest in history , he was accompanied with the 10,000 saints and all > the while he was praying ,with head hung low in Submission to Allah Almighty.And > if you were to go further nto the original Hebrew in the Song of Solomon you will > find his name in Hebrew form of Muhammadim shortly after the opening words of > Ya Banat ereshalam O Daughters of Jerusalem...... Jinavamsa, thank you for your post on this. It saved me a lot of time from having to research an area i am very ignorant about. > Potscript: .... the Gospel of Barnabas which is closer to the style of the > Dead Sea Scrolls than the four gospels actually quotes the words of Jesus > about the coming of Muhammad s.aw. Zainuddin, where did you get this interpretation? If the Barnabas gospel was similar to the Dead Sea Scrolls in style, every Qumram scholar who has done hands-on- work with the original scrolls throughout the international academic community would be studying and commenting on this gospel. But i have never come across this text so much as even mentioned in a bibliography in any study concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls. Moreover, the Gospel of Barnabas is almost unanimously acknowledged by Biblical scholars who know the classical languages as a very late forgery, probably composed by a Latin-speaking monk who accompanied the Europeans during the crusades and converted to Islam. (my apologies to tariqa readers for confusing this text with the Gospel of Bartholomew in an earlier discussion we had -- was getting my B-names confused). There is no reference to this text by any early Christian historian, mystic, or theologian. The original Barnabas was from the Jewish community on Cyprus which settled there during the Diaspora and connected with the disciples in Jerusalem. The Epistle or Letter of Barnabas, on the other hand, is a very ancient text that is commented upon by many early Christian Fathers, and there is absolutely no similarity between this Epistle and the alleged Gospel. Permit me to make a historical observation and that is there is a huge body of literature in Christianity that was written solely for the purpose of proving that the coming of Jesus and who he was and what he did is to be found in the Jewish scriptures. Some of these like the Syriac Book of the Cave of Treasures and the Book of Bees almost rewrite the Hebrew scriptures, in a manner of speaking, in an attempt to prove the Christian view. I've attempted to read these works and found it like going through a wild mythological and psychological roller coaster down a labyrinth. (for example, identifying the hill of Golgatha where Jesus was crucified as the exact spot where Adam was buried, and the cross being held in place by Adam's skull in the earth in order to prove that Jesus was the Second Adam). And even most contemporary Christian scholars (in fact i cannot think of any exceptions) place no importance on these books whatsoever after scrutinizing them and their history carefully. But the kind of psychology that finds an urgent need to produce this kind of literature is found in all traditions somewhere and i often wonder about the psychological motivations of such people. For example, the Sutra of the White Cloud is one such mess that Empress Wu of the Tang Dynasty in China commissioned Buddhist monks to write to prove that she was Buddha's promised arrival of Maitreya. As a Sutra, this text purports itself to come from the Buddha's mouth. And how many Muslim visionaries, such as Mughira ibn Sa'id (d. 119/736), claimed to be the awaited Mahdi? This discussion for me personally is interesting, because it reveals and confronts how Christians create myths about Islam, and how Muslims create myths about Christianity. And in turn, we can observe how these myths have the potential to become barriers for productive communication and dialogue for more noble purposes such as peace, love, and harmony between peoples and religions -- although i recognize it is not everyone's cup of tea to study this stuff, nor should it be. One can look at Ahmed Deedat's "Christ in Islam" on the internet (www.unn.ac.uk) and observe very confused thinking about Christianity, such as comparing St. Paul to Hitler. And there are certainly Christians writing similar garbage about Mohammad PBUH and Islam. Obviously there can be no harmonious discussion between the religions with such rubbish being published. And very frequently it is the converts from one religion to another that often generate and/or perpetuate such myths through their new-found enthusiasm and convictions, and this includes conversion even within a given religion from one way of thinking or belief to another. It is part of the psychology of conversion -- an entire discussion in itself. Well, i've gone way beyond my time on this thing -- it all just kind of flows out and before i know it there is a dissertation to chew through. Fariuddein, i am really looking forward to whatever you can uncover to share with us. My apologies, friends. Blessings to you all, Nur Jemal ------------------------------ From: Michael Roland Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 18:27:25 -0700 Subject: Re: New Additions to Threshold Web Site -- September 1996 || || | || o_,_7 _|| . _o_7 _|| 4_|_|| o_w_, ( : / (_) / ( . (Bismillahirrahmanirrahim) At 02:42 PM 9/2/96 +0100, you wrote: > Dear Rabia Kathleen Seidel: >Thankyou for telling me this information about the Threshold Web Site. >I copied the Salaat, so I could learn this. I read the articles on woman >also which was really interesting. There are a few words I am not familiar >with like what is a rakat (or rakats, for example: "I intend to offer the 4 >rakats of the Isha prayer ... What is Isha prayer also. This is in reference >to Salaat (niyyat)? Anyway it was very good article on Salaat. Anyone >offering help to me on this will be gratefully appreciated. Kaffea Lalla > Assalamu'alaykum, Dear Kaffea Lalla, Allow me to help you in answering your questions about salaat. Rakaat is a cycle of eight positions or movements of the body. It's written on the Threshold webpage as: Niyyat - Qiyam - Ruku' - Qauma - Sudjood - Qu'ud - Sudjood - Qu'ud To perform this set of movements (and recitings) is called to complete one rakaat. In one salaat there can be two, three, or four rakaats, depends on the time of the salaat, which are: 1. Salaat Fajr (Dawn prayer) has 2 rakaats. 2. Salaat Zuhr (Noon prayer) has 4 rakaats. 3. Salaat 'Asr (Late Afternoon prayer) has 4 rakaats. 4. Salaat Maghrib (Dusk prayer) has 3 rakaats. 5. Salaat Isha (Night prayer) has 4 rakaats. These 5 salaats are the obligatory prayers, but Moslems can also do optional salaats. I quoted this from Shaykh Hakim Moinuddin Chisti's "Book of Sufi Healing": "The word salaat in Arabic is translated as prayer or worship, also supplications for forgiveness, compassion, and mercy. Western scholars have unfortunately misrepresented the true conception of salaat by translating the word simply as "prayer" or "worship". In fact, the practice of salaat is very specific and forms the most unique and central feature of religious life in Islam and Sufism." Maybe other brothers and sisters who know more about salaat than me can also help. May God bless you all. Wassalamu'alaykum, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: Michael Moore Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 19:57:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Paraclete #1.01 Gale wrote: > > This discussion for me personally is interesting, because it reveals and confronts > how Christians create myths about Islam, and how Muslims create myths about > Christianity. And in turn, we can observe how these myths have the potential to > become barriers for productive communication and dialogue for more noble purposes > such as peace, love, and harmony between peoples and religions -- although i > recognize it is not everyone's cup of tea to study this stuff, nor should it be. One can > look at Ahmed Deedat's "Christ in Islam" on the internet (www.unn.ac.uk) and I read that one. You are being very generous when you say 'very confused thinking'. I would say here that the tail is waging the dog. > observe very confused thinking about Christianity, such as comparing St. Paul to > Hitler. And there are certainly Christians writing similar garbage about Mohammad > PBUH and Islam. Obviously there can be no harmonious discussion between the > religions with such rubbish being published. And very frequently it is the converts > from one religion to another that often generate and/or perpetuate such myths > through their new-found enthusiasm and convictions, and this includes conversion > even within a given religion from one way of thinking or belief to another. It is part of > the psychology of conversion -- an entire discussion in itself. "The psychology of conversion" !! The idea that there is a whole psychological theory related to the conversion process facinates me. Can you recommend a book on the subject. I am thinking that this would tie in with Idres Shah's ideas about emotionalism and ideas about people who join 'religious' groups as support groups for the feeling of 'belonging'. > > Well, i've gone way beyond my time on this thing -- it all just kind of flows out and > before i know it there is a dissertation to chew through. Fariuddein, i am really > looking forward to whatever you can uncover to share with us. My apologies, friends. No! please do not apologise. This is wonderful and I, for one, am enjoying it! Please continue as time and will allows. > > Blessings to you all, > > Nur Jemal - -Michael- ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #119 *****************************