From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Oct 7 22:09:22 1996 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:31:57 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #158 tariqas-digest Wednesday, 25 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 158 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:01:34 +0100 Subject: Let's words spring out of our hearts Salam Michael. I am sorry if I had used words that should never have been used at brethren.I have a lot to learn from you. By the way , cant we all try to write some poetry.Here's one awful one: "A motley bunch we are We bring the market into the net But we sell all kinds of love Tis all we want to spread " "Iman Joshi is our baby Her freshness scents her words I have not seen her in jilbab Neither has she seen our shirts But in our mind's eye she's there Awaiting for her shaykh But if Murshid does not show up Her loving heart wont break " In Singapore and Malaysia poems are exchanged instantaneously by Malays and Straits born Chinese.There is a Malay poem for every occasion.Can anyone return mine ? - ---------- Then there are some of us Life and Breath, Searching, climbing Kaffea Confused and falling, But on the ground Is God Around and even In this is Allah's Sound... My eye is full of silent weeping: Where is the Wisdom locked Inside? I feel like lost and found Waiting for You to come And yet You always Are...Here...Near ------------------------------ From: Rashid Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:33:28 +0400 Subject: Re: Observing Self; was Re: Desire Michael J. Moore wrote: > > Rashid wrote: > > > > Michael J. Moore wrote: > > > > > To begin to learn to control thoughts involves a technique called observation. > > > I am using 'observation' as a technical term. Learn to first Observe > > > your thoughts. Create in your head, two selves, the 'observing self' and the > > > your thinking self. But rather than describe in detail this technique, > > > I will tell you it is from the teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. > > > > Dear Michael > > > > AA > > > > That is a very fascinating concept. I would be grateful if you can > > provide some > > more info on this subject. Where can I get literature on the teachings > > of > > Gurdjieff and Ouspensky? > > > > Is it possible for you to guide me to adopt this technique? > > > > Wassalam > > > > Rashid > > Ha! Me guiding somebody? Now that would be a sight! Are you familiar > with > 'The Fool' of the tarot? No I am not. > Naw, I'll leave the guiding to the pros. Well why not? I think we are all students, at least I am, learning from each other every moment. Please give it a second thought. > > 'The 4th Way' by P.D. Ouspensky. The instructions are clear and the > results are confirmable. > Cheers, Thanks Wassalam Rashid > -- > -Michael- - -- ------------------------------ From: Rashid Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:57:18 +0400 Subject: Re: Nazarenes (fwd) Steve H Rose wrote: > > From: Zainuddin Ismail > Subject: Re: Nazarenes > > According to the famous Maududi a.y. Dear Br Zain What does a.y. stand for? Wassalam Rashid ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:00:33 -0700 Subject: Re: Let's words spring out of our hearts Zainuddin Ismail wrote: > > Salam Michael. I am sorry if I had used words that should never have been I don't remember such words. > used at brethren.I have a lot to learn from you. And I from each of you. :-) > By the way , cant we all try to write some poetry. -snip- Well since you were brave enough, here goes....... Allah's Road Kill >From extruded double chromed plates allah flows on beams of twisted light. light captured by drops of dew clinging on cutting blades of grass. A new Parellie tire screams at me 'blood blood' and it starts to spin. The earth begins to shake, objects vibrate across the tops of tables and shatter on the floor. Tiny tiles break their cement bonds and dance like swarms of giant enraged fire ants. A thousand voices whispering 'fear allah', 'fear allah', 'fear the maker of death' fear the power of the all mighty! And like a dear caught in the headlights of a Mack truck I wait for the final moment. Blood flows from the chrome and halogen bulbs shine bright. Oh so bright, so warm, so loving, so Merciful, he cuts me free, and I fall like a drop of dew into his endless ocean. And his mercy is greater than his wrath. - -- - -Michael- ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:02:20 +0800 Subject: Re: Let's words spring out of our hearts On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Zainuddin Ismail wrote: >Salam Michael. I am sorry if I had used words that should never have been >used at brethren.I have a lot to learn from you. >By the way , cant we all try to write some poetry.Here's one awful one: > >"A motley bunch we are >We bring the market into the net >But we sell all kinds of love >Tis all we want to spread " > >"Iman Joshi is our baby >Her freshness scents her words >I have not seen her in jilbab >Neither has she seen our shirts > >But in our mind's eye she's there >Awaiting for her shaykh >But if Murshid does not show up >Her loving heart wont break " > >In Singapore and Malaysia poems are exchanged instantaneously by Malays and >Straits born Chinese.There is a Malay poem for every occasion.Can anyone >return mine ? > Gladly, but my keyboard is rusty... Imaan is looking for her murshid Insha-Allah she find one very soon In mean time she studies biochemistry so that she can get her PhD salam :) - -maarof ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:29:04 +0100 Subject: Wassalam May I ask what Wassalam is (I think salam is peace) but the other part I cannot guess. I am sure is very good word though. K.L. ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:12:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Wassalam Jacquie Weller wrote: > > May I ask what Wassalam is (I think salam is peace) but the other part I > cannot guess. I am sure is very good word though. K.L. wa = and salam = peace It means 'and peace unto you', the 'unto you' part being understood. Like when you say 'thanks', it means 'thanks unto you'. I could be wrong but I think this is correct. - -- Mikayl ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:04:31 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: Let's words spring out of our hearts Salam.OH OH CAROL I AM BUT A FOOL .....Lovely poem I will reply to this when I get one composed this evening.At 13:35 9/24/96 EDT, you wrote: >>In Singapore and Malaysia poems are exchanged instantaneously by Malays >and >>Straits born Chinese.There is a Malay poem for every occasion.Can anyone >>return mine ? > >ahhh, Zainuddin!! :) Thank you for sharing your poem! It is >beautiful... straight from the heart! > >together we are waking! >can you feel the wind caress your soul? >can you hear the ancient rhythm, >meting out our breath? >what do you see... >there in the distance? > >'tis dawn! >echoes the eagle's cry >awaken to the Beauty... >open your eyes to love > > ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:09:29 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: Let's words spring out of our hearts Salam.Wonderful.You are a veritable Keats in the making.At 12:00 9/24/96 - -0700, you wrote: >Zainuddin Ismail wrote: >> >> Salam Michael. I am sorry if I had used words that should never have been > >I don't remember such words. >> used at brethren.I have a lot to learn from you. > >And I from each of you. :-) > >> By the way , cant we all try to write some poetry. -snip- > >Well since you were brave enough, here goes....... > > > > Allah's Road Kill >From extruded double chromed plates allah flows >on beams of twisted light. light captured by >drops of dew clinging on cutting blades of grass. >A new Parellie tire screams at me 'blood blood' >and it starts to spin. The earth begins to >shake, objects vibrate across the tops of tables >and shatter on the floor. Tiny tiles break >their cement bonds and dance like swarms of >giant enraged fire ants. >A thousand voices whispering 'fear allah', 'fear allah', >'fear the maker of death' fear the power of the all mighty! >And like a dear caught in the headlights of a Mack >truck I wait for the final moment. Blood flows >from the chrome and halogen bulbs shine bright. >Oh so bright, so warm, so loving, so Merciful, >he cuts me free, and I fall like a drop of dew >into his endless ocean. And his mercy is greater >than his wrath. > >-- >-Michael- > ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:12:36 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: Let's words spring out of our hearts Salam.So sweet Maarof.Now everybody can Pantun all over the world.Excellent.At 04:02 9/25/96 +0800, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Zainuddin Ismail wrote: > >>Salam Michael. I am sorry if I had used words that should never have been >>used at brethren.I have a lot to learn from you. >>By the way , cant we all try to write some poetry.Here's one awful one: >> >>"A motley bunch we are >>We bring the market into the net >>But we sell all kinds of love >>Tis all we want to spread " >> >>"Iman Joshi is our baby >>Her freshness scents her words >>I have not seen her in jilbab >>Neither has she seen our shirts >> >>But in our mind's eye she's there >>Awaiting for her shaykh >>But if Murshid does not show up >>Her loving heart wont break " >> >>In Singapore and Malaysia poems are exchanged instantaneously by Malays and >>Straits born Chinese.There is a Malay poem for every occasion.Can anyone >>return mine ? >> > >Gladly, but my keyboard is rusty... > >Imaan is looking for her murshid >Insha-Allah she find one very soon >In mean time she studies biochemistry >so that she can get her PhD > >salam :) >-maarof > ------------------------------ From: Imaan Shivani Joshi Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:14:18 +0800 (SST) Subject: Re: Wassalam On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:29:04 +0100 > From: Jacquie Weller > Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com > To: tariqas@world.std.com > Subject: Wassalam > > May I ask what Wassalam is (I think salam is peace) but the other part I > cannot guess. I am sure is very good word though. K.L. it is very simple Jaqui:-) wa in arabic, means simply, "and"...so we end with " and peace:_)" wasalaam.:-) > > ------------------------------ From: Imaan Shivani Joshi Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:14:18 +0800 (SST) Subject: Re: Wassalam On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:29:04 +0100 > From: Jacquie Weller > Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com > To: tariqas@world.std.com > Subject: Wassalam > > May I ask what Wassalam is (I think salam is peace) but the other part I > cannot guess. I am sure is very good word though. K.L. it is very simple Jaqui:-) wa in arabic, means simply, "and"...so we end with " and peace:_)" wasalaam.:-) > > ------------------------------ From: Hudoyo Hupudio Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:28:32 +0700 Subject: Re: Wassalam Michael J. Moore wrote: >Jacquie Weller wrote: >> May I ask what Wassalam is (I think salam is peace) but the other part I >> cannot guess. I am sure is very good word though. K.L. > >wa = and >salam = peace >It means 'and peace unto you', the 'unto you' part being understood. >Like when you say 'thanks', it means 'thanks unto you'. > >I could be wrong but I think this is correct. >Mikayl Yes, you are right. Since "wa" means "and", the phrase is usually said following something that has been said before that, e.g.: at the end of a letter or a speech. The complete traditional sentence [at least in Indonesia] is: "Wassalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh" = "And peace be unto you, and the grace (rahmah) and bounty (barakah) of Allah be unto you." If it is said at the beginning of a letter or speech, it becomes: "Assalamu'alaikum......" (I may be wrong, I'm not an Arabic linguist; in that case, someone please correct me.) Hudoyo ------------------------------ From: Hudoyo Hupudio Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:28:37 +0700 Subject: FW: Theological Questions This is a forwarded message. It isn't serious, though; just an intermezzo. Hudoyo >Return-Path: >From: Ziya >Subject: FW: Theological Questions >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:29:59 -0400 >Sender: owner-cosmic-one@intersurf.com >---------- >This was in my mail and I wanted to share it with everyone. > >Ziya > >Subject: Theological Questions > >SOME IMPORTANT THEOLOGICAL QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED IF WE THINK OF GOD >AS A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER. > >Q: Does God control everything that happens in my life? >A: He could, if he used the debugger, but it's tedious to step >through all those variables. > >Q: Why does God allow evil to happen? >A: God thought he eliminated evil in one of the earlier versions. > >Q: Does God know everything? >A: He likes to think so, but he is often amazed to find the ways >users can create disaster. > >Q: What causes God to intervene in earthly affairs? >A: If a critical error occurs, the system pages him automatically >and he logs on from home to try to bring it up. Otherwise things >can wait until tomorrow. > >Q: Did God really create the world in seven days? >A: He did it in six days and nights while living on cola and candy >bars. On the seventh day he went home and found out his girlfriend >had left him. > >Q: How come the Age of Miracles Ended? >A: That was the development phase of the project, now we are in the >maintenance phase. > >Q: Will there be another Universe after the Big Bang? >A: A lot of people are drawing things on the white board, but doubt >that it will ever be implemented. > >Q: Who is Satan? >A: Satan is an MIS director who takes credit for more powers than >he actually possesses, so people who aren't programmers are scared >of him. God thinks of him as irritating but irrelevant. > >Q: What is the role of sinners? >A: Sinners are the people who find new and imaginative ways to mess >up the system when God has made it idiot-proof. > >Q: Where will I go after I die? >A: Onto a backup tape. > >Q: Will I be reincarnated? >A: Not unless there is a special need to recreate you. And >searching backup files is a major hassle, so if there is a request >for you, God will just say that the tape has been lost. > >Q: Am I unique and special in the universe? >A: There are over 10,000 major university and corporate sites >around the universe running exact duplicates of you in the present >release version. > >Q: What is the purpose of the universe? >A: God created it because he values elegance and simplicity, but >then the users and managers demanded he tack senseless features onto >it and now everything is more complicated and expensive than ever. > >Q: If I pray to God, will he listen? >A: You can waste his time telling him what to do, or you can just >get off his back and let him program. > >Q: What is the one true religion? >A: All systems have their advantages and disadvantages, so just >pick the one that best suits your needs and don't let anyone put you >down. > >Q: How can I protect myself from evil? >A: Change your password every month and don't make it a name, a >common word, or a date like your birthday. > >Q: Some people claim they hear the voice of God. Is this true? >A: They are much more likely to receive e-mail. > >Q: Some people say God is Love. >A: That is not a question. Please restate your query in the form >of a question. Abort, Retry, Fail? ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:24:30 -0700 Subject: more stuff Greetings Fariduddin No, i'm not trying to sanitize anything -- well, except maybe unfounded = judgments that can lead to unreasonable prejudice. i am not in complete agreement with George's passage that you cited -- = his generalizations suggest to me limp scholarship. One of the major = heros of many gnostic groups is infact Paul, and some gnostic teachers = such as Marcion, Valentinus, and Basilides attributed their spiritual = authority to Paul's transmission (i recommend Elaine Pagel's Ph.D. = dissertation on Pauline influences in gnosticism, later published as The = Gnostic Paul). Valentinus claimed to receive his esoteric teaching from = Paul's disciple Theudas. Marcion, one of the first Christian gnostics, = was a staunch Paulist, who rejected the Jewish-Christian schools. In = fact, the first organized Christian Church was Marcion's and it is = probable that the first collected volume of writings to make up a = Christian scripture was Marcion's (focused on Paul's letters and the = Gospel of Luke) -- this was before there was a New Testament. Besides = the word Gnosticism, referring to some kind of religion, is a garbage = pail term which includes such a wide variety of philosophies and sects = that the word has basically lost its meaning. So there is a lot of = naivete in glamorizing all gnostics. i'm certain no man on this list = would want to have been a member of some of these groups unless they = don't value their testicles -- castration for the creation of the = primordial androgynous Adam. For sure Paul gets a bad rap, and is often seen as the great imposter of = Jesus's teachings. i never met him so i can't speak for or against him. = But he was certainly less patriarchal than his Jewish-Christian = contemporaries. Read through his epistles and look at the names of the = people he is addressing and praising -- a large number are women, many = who seem to have held a high status in the Pauline communities. The same = is true of the Valentinian communities in which men and women shared = participation in the services equally, including the officiating. = Moreover, what we call the Catholic Church sees itself as the Church of = Peter, not Paul. Why, because of the importance Catholicism places on = the Letter of James which outlines the relationship between one's faith = and the works one performs in life (like "to walk one's talk") which is = contrary to what later became the Pauline teaching of "faith alone" = (which of course Luther picked up on in his criticism of the Church). And now Zainuddin introduces the Gospel of Barnabas again. Who was = Barnabas? A disciple and sometime traveling companion of Paul! If i take any issue with your post, it is the use of the term Catholic = which can be misleading. There was no such usage nor designation during = the period of history that we have been discussing. When i see the word = Catholic used in the context we have been using it, it suggests an = unconscious referent to the Catholic Church of today which is not = correct. At one time it was known as the Chalcedonian Church due to the = Council of Chalcedon when the basic church creed was made law, in a = manner of speaking, and which the Syrian churches reacted against and = forced them to make a formal break. But that is after the first 4 = centuries when various gnosticisms were most active. Back then the = orthodox church included the various eastern orthodoxies before the = schism between Rome and the Holy Roman Empire seated in Constantinople. = So it suggests to me black-white thinking, and ignores another = observation that most history is grey and doesn't fall into nice, neat = little categories -- especially with early Christian history which is a = big mess to figure out anyway. By offsetting what is being called the Catholic Church as the bad guys = and various gnostic sects as the poor, innocent good guys at the mercy = of overpowering odds, is like saying the same regarding the Sunni's = treatment of the Shi'ite Imams and their disciples. Yet, we would also = say that political powers had their role in such scenarios and it wasn't = the realized ones, and it is no different in Christian history either. = And there were saints and jerks in all these groupings. By the way, regarding the controversy over following Jewish law and not = bothering about it, there is a curious passage in an old manuscript of = the Gospel of Luke with an additional line after Luke 6:5, that reads: "On the same day, seeing a man working on the Sabbath day, Jesus said to = him, Friend, if you know what you are doing, you are blessed; but if you = do not know, you are accursed as a breaker of the Law." There's the = paradox, and if you read Paul carefully, you will find it there as well. Blessings, Nur ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:58:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Nazarenes and Ebionites For the most part the Dead Sea Scrolls are no longer suppressed and are = being introduced into the public domain, albeit at a very slow pace. = Whether the Israeli government continues to suppress access to some of = the scrolls, i am not certain. One of the most famous, and = controversial, the Copper War Scroll, has now been made available to the = public and will be published shortly -- if it hasn't already been. (one = of my professors at grad school was the sole western scholar permitted = to work on this scroll, but he died before completing his work) There = is a new theory out of the University of Chicago (i don't know how = popular it has become yet) that the Dead Sea Scrolls have nothing to do = with some kind of Essene or mystical apocalyptic sect, but actually the = site of Qumram was one among many others where the Levite Jews = associated with the Temple in Jerusalem hid sections of their library in = anticipation of the Roman invasion which ultimately destroyed the = Temple. That the Jews hid texts in caves was well known to some Muslim = historians such as al-Biruni and al-Sharastani. i want to look up something about the main early Dead Sea scholar (i = think he was at American University) who was in charge of the entire = project for many, many years, and was a staunch anti-Semite and = Christian fascist. For decades the theory that the scrolls were the = property of a quasi-Jewish-Christian sect that made the Jews out to be = the bad guys was his. He eventually went insane and died. = Unfortunately, i do not recall his name off hand. But i still find his = theories passed around in popular pop-spiritual literature. Blessings to you, Nur ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:26:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Ebionites and Nazarenes Hi Tansen, You wrote: > Intellect is a tough task master. Intuition is so soft and sweet, = close > to the core of the heart! Instinct keeps us in place, treading water, = in > the middle of the river. > Yeah, but we are all given our particular gifts, and intuition (with = diakrisis or discernment) is not contrary to the use of intellect. = Otherwise, we would never have the writings of Ibn Arabi or Suhrawardi. Besides i see you like to play in the mind world also with Atlantis and = Kahuna hypotheses. Blessings to you Nur ------------------------------ From: dances Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:35:57 -0800 Subject: IRC questions Someone earlier mentioned irc? Something about a place for chat that we can talk? I am new to this and would like some help.! I use a mac and have downloaded irc and homer but got nowhere very fast;) ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #158 *****************************